Swim parents, would you question a coach's decision?

[swimmermom3]

Swim parents or anyone with kids in competitive sports, I need a different perspective as I am currently a wee bit hot under the collar.

 

My son swims on a large USA swim team on the Top Age Group squad where there are about twenty-five 10-12 who all have their state or "A" cuts. Last weekend was our state championship meet and our Age Group Sectionals will start on March 19th. Starting this Monday, the three kids on the squad that did not make the sectionals cuts will be required to swim with a slower squad for the two weeks prior to sectionals. My son is one of those swimmers.

 

My inclination on hearing this is to fire off a letter to the coach as to the purpose of separating three swimmers from the rest of their squad. Punishment? Negative motivation? I am not sure how having these kids swim at slower paces for two weeks will bring them up to the level of the other swimmers. How about their re-entry back into their squad?

 

Now here is where my sour grapes come in. Swimmer Dude is 11. He has 9 11yo "A" cuts, 6 11yo sectional cuts, and 2 12yo "A" cuts. He accomplished this in spite of a shoulder injury and being unable to swim the fly when it is his best stroke. However he ages up (turns 12) 4 days prior to sectionals. I can live with that. But please, he is not good enough to swim with his teammates?

 

When Remudamom says she could just spit, I know what she means.

[JudoMom]

I don't know what all this means, but by golly, I'll be mad as a fire ant with you :cursing:.

[bettyandbob]

I don't think sending the coach a letter will change anything. Some of the most competitive USA teams in my area do this. I don't think all USA swim coaches have this approach, but it is accepted, so I don't think a letter will make a coach change his decision. Honestly, when you get to that level in any sport it gets cut throat and there are coaches who constantly insist on earning a spot in the practice group, whether or not you have an injury.

 

I'd examine if I wanted to stick with this coach's approach. Are there other teams in your area? What is their reputation? Are there positives about this coach for you child? How does your ds feel? At 12 and competing at this level he should have a say and have an idea of what he wants to achieve and whether he wants to work with this coach.

[Hillary in KS]

Swim team family here! :seeya:

 

What a bummer to age up so close to Sectionals!

 

First, I would *never* question the coach's decision in front of my child. Ev-ah. I'd ask my child, "Did Coach X explain why? Did he say what he was hoping you'd learn?" etc. But that would be it.

 

Secondly, I'd *call* the coach and speak with him. Or e-mail him and set a time to speak with him before or after practice. (Not while he's on deck coaching.) Ask your son's coach your questions face-to-face, or on the phone. Don't use e-mail or letters for a situation like this.

 

Thirdly, I know you're angry. But try to calm down and speak with the coach first. Maybe this isn't a punishment. Maybe there is a method to his madness. Assuming he hasn't been a punishment-driven let's-embarrass-the-kids kind of coach in the past, give him the benefit of the doubt. It's two weeks. They'll fly by.

 

Could it be that he has different workouts for the kids going to Sectionals, and it's simply easier to separate the two groups? Could it be that he's having the kids who didn't make the cuts swim with a lower group so they have the opportunity to work more on technique? (I'm assuming that your club, like many others, have lower-level age group swimmers focus more on technique than yardage.) Could you not encourage your son to consider the next 2 weeks an opportunity to rest his shoulder and allow it to heal, while still keeping his conditioning level up?

 

 

I would speak with the coach and ask for clarification.

[swimmermom3]

I don't know what all this means, but by golly, I'll be mad as a fire ant with you :cursing:.

 

Thanks for your support, JudoMom. I tend to flash fast on some things and figured if I took the time to write it down here and read some feedback, I would save myself the indignity of having to apologize to the coach for saying things better left unsaid.:D

 

I don't think sending the coach a letter will change anything. Some of the most competitive USA teams in my area do this. I don't think all USA swim coaches have this approach, but it is accepted, so I don't think a letter will make a coach change his decision. Honestly, when you get to that level in any sport it gets cut throat and there are coaches who constantly insist on earning a spot in the practice group, whether or not you have an injury.

 

I'd examine if I wanted to stick with this coach's approach. Are there other teams in your area? What is their reputation? Are there positives about this coach for you child? How does your ds feel? At 12 and competing at this level he should have a say and have an idea of what he wants to achieve and whether he wants to work with this coach.

 

Betty, thanks for your dose of realism. I have done this dance long enough to know the score, and to know not to whine about it. But ugh! It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. We are probably on the best team in the area and my son is very motivated. His coach has called him "a dream swimmer." He works like a dog, always shows up, never complains, adapts quickly to a coach's suggestion, and typically delivers. He has already set new goals for long course, but hates losing the ground he has gained recently, by swimming with a slower squad for two weeks.

 

I know, buck up Mom, and get over it!

[bettyandbob]

He works like a dog, always shows up, never complains, adapts quickly to a coach's suggestion, and typically delivers. He has already set new goals for long course, but hates losing the ground he has gained recently, by swimming with a slower squad for two weeks.

 

Sounds like your ds knows the routine and expectations. You know, if I was in your position, I'd be mad too. It's hard when we feel our children have been slighted--I think we take it harder than the kids.

 

I hope your ds's shoulder heals quickly!

[swimmermom3]

Swim team family here! :seeya:

 

What a bummer to age up so close to Sectionals!

 

First, I would *never* question the coach's decision in front of my child. Ev-ah. I'd ask my child, "Did Coach X explain why? Did he say what he was hoping you'd learn?" etc. But that would be it.

 

Secondly, I'd *call* the coach and speak with him. Or e-mail him and set a time to speak with him before or after practice. (Not while he's on deck coaching.) Ask your son's coach your questions face-to-face, or on the phone. Don't use e-mail or letters for a situation like this.

 

Thirdly, I know you're angry. But try to calm down and speak with the coach first. Maybe this isn't a punishment. Maybe there is a method to his madness. Assuming he hasn't been a punishment-driven let's-embarrass-the-kids kind of coach in the past, give him the benefit of the doubt. It's two weeks. They'll fly by.

 

Could it be that he has different workouts for the kids going to Sectionals, and it's simply easier to separate the two groups? Could it be that he's having the kids who didn't make the cuts swim with a lower group so they have the opportunity to work more on technique? (I'm assuming that your club, like many others, have lower-level age group swimmers focus more on technique than yardage.) Could you not encourage your son to consider the next 2 weeks an opportunity to rest his shoulder and allow it to heal, while still keeping his conditioning level up?

 

 

I would speak with the coach and ask for clarification.

 

I actually do keep my "What is he (the coach) thinking comments?" to myself and encourage my son to ask the coach directly if my son has a question. My oldest child swam for this coach previously so we are fairly comfortable with him. However, he is still young enough that he gets a little edgy with questions so we need to proceed carefully. His reasons may very well be some of the ones you have mentioned. Sometimes though, things he did with his college team occasionally creep into the mix and he forgets he is working with young kids. I will be serving the squad breakfast tomorrow morning, so I will have a chance to ask in person after practice. It sounds like from Betty post that this practice is standard.

[Nicole M]

I don't know what all this means, but by golly, I'll be mad as a fire ant with you :cursing:.

 

Me, too!

 

I am an arts-world girl, not a swim-world girl, so I don't know if this is appropriate protocol, but can you ask the coach, in person, what the purpose is?

[swimmermom3]

He works like a dog, always shows up, never complains, adapts quickly to a coach's suggestion, and typically delivers. He has already set new goals for long course, but hates losing the ground he has gained recently, by swimming with a slower squad for two weeks.

 

Sounds like your ds knows the routine and expectations. You know, if I was in your position, I'd be mad too. It's hard when we feel our children have been slighted--I think we take it harder than the kids.

 

I hope your ds's shoulder heals quickly!

 

Thank you. His shoulder is getting stronger and the coach has been awesome with working on his long-term viability as a swimmer. I think you hit the nail on the head. Dude shows little emotion when it comes to swimming when things don't go as he expects, but I have seldom seen him hurt like this. So Mom has to give the knee-jerk reaction.

[mcconnellboys]

Ummm, yeah, I would be speaking to the coach in person. This is wrong on so many, many levels. I'd lay out what you just said about all this. There is NO WAY this is a good thing for team morale going forward.

 

It might be different if there were more a half and half mix and the coaches wanted to do something special with those getting ready for sectionals. But with only three, why not just practice them as if they're going to sectionals, because your son, as least, is certainly going to be there soon enough, anyway? If the other two are hurt or don't want to do more intensive practices pre-sectionals, then their parents could make the decision to drop them back for a couple of weeks. But if you want your son practicing with his group, then I'd make that clear to them..... And I'd make certain there is no guff from anyone about it, either......

[Hillary in KS]

Ummm, yeah, I would be speaking to the coach in person. This is wrong on so many, many levels. I'd lay out what you just said about all this. There is NO WAY this is a good thing for team morale going forward.

 

It might be different if there were more a half and half mix and the coaches wanted to do something special with those getting ready for sectionals. But with only three, why not just practice them as if they're going to sectionals, because your son, as least, is certainly going to be there soon enough, anyway? If the other two are hurt or don't want to do more intensive practices pre-sectionals, then their parents could make the decision to drop them back for a couple of weeks. But if you want your son practicing with his group, then I'd make that clear to them..... And I'd make certain there is no guff from anyone about it, either......

 

Well, except he's aging up. Generally when that happens you *don't* qualify your first year in a new age group. And swimmers begin to lose conditioning after a week or so out of the water (says our coach). Not going to practice for 2 weeks would have some drawbacks.

 

I think swimmermom3's plan of asking during breakfast tomorrow is good. :)

[Pip]

i would calmly ask the coach what the rationale is for this since you are comfortable with him. I know that our team is very concerned about fatigue among the swimmers before a big meet. Could it be he is trying to avoid this. It could be a stupid decision, or it could be a very reasonable one when you know the rationale. Our coaches are crazy busy right now with Sectionals, which we are hosting, and AG Champs.

 

But if your overall relationship with the coach is good, I'd be careful about pushing this too far.

[Mommyfaithe]

Swim parents or anyone with kids in competitive sports, I need a different perspective as I am currently a wee bit hot under the collar.

 

My son swims on a large USA swim team on the Top Age Group squad where there are about twenty-five 10-12 who all have their state or "A" cuts. Last weekend was our state championship meet and our Age Group Sectionals will start on March 19th. Starting this Monday, the three kids on the squad that did not make the sectionals cuts will be required to swim with a slower squad for the two weeks prior to sectionals. My son is one of those swimmers.

 

My inclination on hearing this is to fire off a letter to the coach as to the purpose of separating three swimmers from the rest of their squad. Punishment? Negative motivation? I am not sure how having these kids swim at slower paces for two weeks will bring them up to the level of the other swimmers. How about their re-entry back into their squad?

 

Now here is where my sour grapes come in. Swimmer Dude is 11. He has 9 11yo "A" cuts, 6 11yo sectional cuts, and 2 12yo "A" cuts. He accomplished this in spite of a shoulder injury and being unable to swim the fly when it is his best stroke. However he ages up (turns 12) 4 days prior to sectionals. I can live with that. But please, he is not good enough to swim with his teammates?

 

When Remudamom says she could just spit, I know what she means.

 

Ok...truth...I'd be as pissed as a hornet, but I would also realize that maybe there is a logical explanation for the separatiopn (such as building and tapering) Ds did not make his cuts for JO's this year (just turned 15.) His coach did NOT separate him out. He doesn't pay much attention to the kids who didn't make the cut, but they are still in with their group.

 

Another truth...you could whip off a letter...have a tantrum...and be as angry as you want, but my experience with coaches is that it won't budge them a bit. They feel it is their call to do what they do...and **** it...they are going to do it the way they want. They don't like us mere swim Mom's questioning their professional decisions, and quite honestly, when I sit back and think about the situation, I can sometimes see their logic...sometimes I just think they are nuts. I have seen my son put through the wringer! I ask him if he wants to stop swimming or move to a different team...and it is always a resounding NO!

 

So, I would ask your son...if this is really important to him. If it is, HE should talk to the coach. It is his relationship with someone who will be training him, probably for years to come. Maybe if he asks him if it would be ok to swim in his regular squad, coach will see it as ok...kwim? Maybe not...and then the coach can explain his reasons why not.

 

I have just found that when I butt into that relationship, I always end up making thing worse (maybe it is the Brooklyn in me...I don't know...) There was a time my son was put off a relay...even though his times were better than the other kid...due to stupid reasons (other swim moms being pushy!) and I got in the coach's face about it. NEVER again! The only thing I would get in there about now is abuse...other than that, it is between my kids and their team mates and their coach. My job is to drive, time, chaperone and to cheer...LOL!

 

Coaches are a strange lot...I know...My daughter is one...OY VEY!

 

~~Faithe

 

Oh Lisa...HI!!!!!!

[AngelBee]

As a competition dance instructor and high school dance team coach (also mama to competitive dancers :D ), I am a tiny bit confused at why you are mad. :blush:

 

He can not compete either way, correct? So you are mad about who he is being placed with to swim for the next 2 weeks?

 

My knowledge of swimming is limited, but I know the high school I coach at has done tapering like this before even if it was for just a couple girls.

 

For dance team, we moved girls before sections down to jv. I am not sure if that is similar to what you are talking about.

 

:grouphug: I know it can be hard as a mama. Honestly, it is hard as a coach too. :(

[ciyates]

First congrats on his times. Way to go! My DS took a season off and is trying to get back and boy is it hard. Anyway, I have seen this done before not as punishment but for the Coach to focus on the kids who are going. Our coaches do it all the time. I don't see (but could be oblivious) anyone upset by it.

[Pippen]

My inclination on hearing this is to fire off a letter to the coach as to the purpose of separating three swimmers from the rest of their squad. Punishment? Negative motivation? I am not sure how having these kids swim at slower paces for two weeks will bring them up to the level of the other swimmers. How about their re-entry back into their squad?

...

 

When Remudamom says she could just spit, I know what she means.

 

Don't fire off any letter when you're angry. Several times I've done that, and even though I thought I chose my words carefully, in hindsight I regretted it. Usually it didn't accomplish anything but get it off my chest, and twice it made things worse.:tongue_smilie:

 

A phone call or personal conversation is better. If it's common practice in the sport and/or it's only for two weeks, I'd be inclined to let it go.

[HayesW]

Perhaps the coach wants to be able to focus solely on the swimmers who will be swimming in the competition. It has nothing to do with your kid. It isn't punishment. It isn't being ugly.

 

He wants to open up the space those 3 swimmers NOT going would use. Also, he is spending more time coaching the swimmers who are going to competition.

 

It sucks that he will be with a slower pace of swimmers. Does that really mean he has to swim slower? Why can't hje swim in a lane with the other 2 swimmers in his group to keep up his pace. Maybe this is a time when he can work on perfecting his strokes, or getting his kicks just right, or maybe on his turns.

[NCMom]

Swim parents or anyone with kids in competitive sports, I need a different perspective as I am currently a wee bit hot under the collar.

 

My son swims on a large USA swim team on the Top Age Group squad where there are about twenty-five 10-12 who all have their state or "A" cuts. Last weekend was our state championship meet and our Age Group Sectionals will start on March 19th. Starting this Monday, the three kids on the squad that did not make the sectionals cuts will be required to swim with a slower squad for the two weeks prior to sectionals. My son is one of those swimmers.

 

My inclination on hearing this is to fire off a letter to the coach as to the purpose of separating three swimmers from the rest of their squad. Punishment? Negative motivation? I am not sure how having these kids swim at slower paces for two weeks will bring them up to the level of the other swimmers. How about their re-entry back into their squad?

 

Now here is where my sour grapes come in. Swimmer Dude is 11. He has 9 11yo "A" cuts, 6 11yo sectional cuts, and 2 12yo "A" cuts. He accomplished this in spite of a shoulder injury and being unable to swim the fly when it is his best stroke. However he ages up (turns 12) 4 days prior to sectionals. I can live with that. But please, he is not good enough to swim with his teammates?

 

When Remudamom says she could just spit, I know what she means.

 

 

:grouphug: It can be really hard.

 

This is accepted practice here. Our team just did this 3 weeks ago for states and they always have. The people who swim in the state meet all swim together for the last couple of weeks. Most of cuts for our state meet for my dds' group (13-14) are US Swim AA cuts or higher, so you can imagine how few kids make it. I think we had 17 age groupers go to state out of more than 50 kids; only 4 of those were 13-14 girls and 2 of those 4 swam only 1 event... This is such a change from when we lived in NH and everyone went to the state meet!

 

It usually has to do with the fact that the coach is trying to increase endurance and work on specifics with each swimmer. I had one who swam w/the state meet goers and one who didn't. I wouldn't say anything and would either accept it as the way things are or look for another team, assuming it was handled well and the three not swimming at sectionals were treated with respect.

 

hth,

Georgia

[swimmermom3]

Thanks everyone for your responses and your insights. My op looked like whining in this morning's light.:tongue_smilie:Sectionals weren't the issue, we've BTDT. Fear definitely triggered my anger. I am afraid that after the break my son will stretch too hard to catch back up to his peers and permanently damage his shoulder. I have been struggling the last year and a half with the swim culture's attitude of "don't ask, just do it." The "coach is king" attitude has caused some major damage within our own club and our swimming community at large.

 

Anyway, our son chose to speak with his coach, heard the explanation, and accepted it. Interestingly enough, they are handling the splits differently this year than in the past, so we'll see what comes of it.

 

Many of my swim parent friends have older children that are swimming in college. Their perspective is very different than from the days of club swimming. I appreciate being able to come here and ask a question even if it doesn't involve home schooling.

[clementine]

Here is my .02 ;)

 

On our swim team, if you don't make a champ time & make it to State, you don't even PRACTICE with the team at all between finals & state. You come back when the new session starts.

 

Those kids that are headed to State, will be doing certain drills (starts, relay starts, taper) to get them ready for the last meet of the year.

 

It's hard to have those kids know that some of their teammates are headed back to practice without them, but that's how it works on our team.

 

Your son sounds like he'll have a great chance to make state as a 12yo.

[Poke Salad Annie]

My thoughts are as those posted above. Possibly those kids are in some kind of taper and would be doing different workouts. Maybe you can console your son with that, and encourage him to continue working hard, being careful of his diet, and to continue doing dryland exercises. Running was always a good exercise for my dd to help with endurance. That might help him (if the weather is good there) to work through some of his frustration.

 

I would also say to give your son a hug for all the hard work he's put into this season. I've seen many kids who had natural talent shrug off the workouts, and others who kept working through, despite adversity. Your son sounds like the latter, and he will be rewarded eventually if he can continue his hard work and persevere. Summer swim season is around the corner, so he'll have his chance again soon.

 

One more thing. I don't know if this has been posted, but swim times are affected by growth spurts. It takes a bit of time for the muscles to catch up with the bone growth and get the strength to match. Be patient.

[Poke Salad Annie]

One more thing...

 

My dd always enjoyed attending swim camps in the early summer. She met lots of kids and made new friends. She also learned so much about technique which was very helpful to her. If I asked her today, she would say those weeks spent at swim camp were some of her best memories. One summer several Olympians visited. Talk about motivation!!

 

So if you can afford the extra expense, you might want to look into the possibility of swim camp. It might do your son good to work under a different coach (or coaches). Good luck!

[asta]

A couple of stray thoughts...

 

One is in conjunction with what a couple of others have mentioned re: swim camps: is there no other pool in your community? Or no time slot that his team is not in that pool? Is your son prohibited from doing easy laps outside of "team" time to keep his muscles supple? Not "training" per se, but simply recreational laps to keep his form.

 

The second is one of those "hard lesson" stories: My dad was the #1 All American in his stroke in the 1950s. He was selected to go to the Olympic Trials. He and three other guys touched the wall at the exact same time (this was before touch pads were used). It was a photo finish (I know, I have the photo). The judges didn't know what to do. Only the top three were allowed to go to the Olympics. They went to the back room to "confer", and were back there almost an hour.

 

In the end, they came out with "scores" that posted them as (essentially) being .000, .001, .002, .003. It came out later that they had drawn straws. My dad didn't get to go to the Olympics. He had been training since he was 5.

 

The guy they sent in his stroke placed horribly. My dad never competed again. But he never quit swimming. And he saved my sister from drowning after running across a field and diving into 2 ft of water.

 

Things happen for a reason.

 

 

asta