CW vs MCT?

[shukriyya]

All the threads on MCT have piqued my interest however after perusing all the material on the MCT website I still don't quite understand the draw. Yes, I realize that the samples don't give the full picture but I was put off by the font in the first book, made to look like a child's crooked printing for some reason.

 

At any rate despite this I was intrigued enough by the poetry section to consider using this program. So what are the differences between CW and MCT and does one need both programs? Will one program cover all the bases? What does CW have that MCT lacks? and vice versa?

[Snickerdoodle]

I'm going sub to this thread.

 

We just received MCT Island. We have already started CW Aesop. For now, I'm going to plug away at both to see how I feel about it.

[King Alfred Academy]

I don't have any answers to your questions as I have yet to use the MCT Poetry and I have never used CW, but I can comment on the font...I was worried about this as well, especially since I have a visual kid. However, it isn't an issue. We don't even notice it and my ds hasn't even commented on it. I have had others say the same as I have. So, I think it is safe to say that is really isn't an issue. HTH! :001_smile:

 

(I am also assuming by "the first book", you are meaning the Island Grammar)

[Mom-ninja.]

You've asked the exact questions I want to know. I was just looking at both sites. I actually didn't find sample pages from CW.

 

I know CW follows the WTM method of teaching writing. Does MCT?

[LizzyBee]

You've asked the exact questions I want to know. I was just looking at both sites. I actually didn't find sample pages from CW.

 

I know CW follows the WTM method of teaching writing. Does MCT?

 

CW has samples on http://www.lulu.com.

[Shawna in Texas]

CW follows the progymnasmata. You can view samples on their lulu site. I've been mulling over for a while my problems with CW because I would love to continue with it at some point. Looking back, for us, there was too much narration. After doing FLL, then Aesop, Homer was turning into a headache. My dd is excellent with grammar, so that part was a waste for us unless we skipped toward the end of the book. She was also great at retelling. It was to the point that a few of her last stories from Homer were very much in a sarcastic tone. She's a great writer. I may, when she gets to high school, pick back up with some of the rhetoric stuff.

 

With MCT (the 1st level is the one with the childish font), it's giving her semi-structured assignments. In lesson 1 of PT, it discusses analysis. It gives a scenerio where you have to categorize details. It asks six different questions to further organize these thoughts. It goes on to ask you which details do you think are the most important. The name of this lesson is "Parts of Speech", so you're getting the grammar. Some of that portion is busywork for my dd, but it does include phrases and clauses and she's not 100% on those.

 

Lesson 2 is called "Parts of the Sentence". More grammar analysis. Then, you get to do some brainstorming. More organizing facts. Now you get to make a list of statements including those facts. Some discussion. At this point you haven't put a paragraph together. Skipping around, lesson 4 focuses on subject/verb agreement. Lesson 5, you get to mess around with Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Lesson 8, you get to write some descriptive paragraphs. They get increasingly more, I don't want to say difficult, but progressive. There are 20 lessons.

 

I was trying to make MCT and CW more compatible. I think they can be, but it was taking up too much out of me to write all these lessons out for one child who was already quite advanced at writing. We weren't utilizing CW as it was intended. I had to choose, but I took in what dd had to say and she had a definite preference. Like I said before, in high school, I may bring CW back for a semester of Rhetoric. I'd like to put together my own Quick Progymnasmata course as a prerequisite. I got a couple years.

[yslek]

:bigear:

 

I'm so glad someone asked this, as I've been wondering the same thing. My plan had been to use CW (after completing WT2 w/ the boys this year) but now I'm not so sure... I really like what I see on the MCT site. And I know myself well enough to know I won't manage both programs. (We're actually behind on WT2 already. :tongue_smilie:)

[shukriyya]

Hmm, it seems there's a fair bit of interest in this question but not a lot of concrete answers, perhaps due to the nature of each program? It appears that there's not a tremendous amount of difference between the two in terms of content based on Shawna's description. Perhaps the difference is in the context? CW uses the progymnasmata whereas for MCT the context is perhaps...a love of the english language? I don't know, the differences still seem somewhat elusive to me. Anyone else have any experience with both programs?

Edited November 26, 2009 by shukriyya

[Shawna in Texas]

Hmm, it seems there's not a tremendous amount of difference between the two in terms of content based on Shawna's description. Perhaps the difference is in the context? CW uses the progymnasmata whereas for MCT the context is perhaps...a love of the english language? I don't know, the differences still seem somewhat elusive to me. Anyone else have any experience with both programs?

 

For some, the progymnasmata is a pretty big deal. The differences are the method. You're going to find similarities and differences in all writing programs. The end result is usually the same. As interesting as I found the progym, I found CW was just moving too slow for my dd. I'm still planning to bring back the progym at some point, with or without CW, in the future. I'll probably do it with ancient history in 9th.

 

I love both programs, but MCT is the one my dd prefers. I would have trudged it out with CW if she preferred that. I think the workbooks make Homer more accessible, but I think some kids are more advanced with grammar then what is assigned. Especially after doing FLL and Aesop and Latin. Too much busy work. If you decide to tackle the corebook instead, the first couple of weeks are fairly smooth, but then you start to see how your child is way past one level, but then may need another week at a current level. (You'd have to see the corebook to understand the skill levels) Even as someone as motivated as me, I was getting really bogged down.

 

With MCT, there's no real prep for me at all, but I still feel like we're getting plenty. You're also not writing paragraphs right away, but with CW Homer, at first you're just retelling (which you spend all of Aesop doing)--so, just preference, time, method, etc, etc.

 

Sorry for butting in again, but talking about writing keeps my mind off of math. :tongue_smilie:

[shukriyya]

Butt in all you like, Shawna :D Your comments are very useful in helping me and hopefully all the others reading this to figure out which program to use and why.

[yslek]

Butt in all you like, Shawna :D Your comments are very useful in helping me and hopefully all the others reading this to figure out which program to use and why.

 

:iagree:

[Mom-ninja.]

With MCT, there's no real prep for me at all, but I still feel like we're getting plenty.

 

Well, that just about settles it for me. :tongue_smilie:

[MariannNOVA]

As interesting as I found the progym, I found CW was just moving too slow for my dd.

 

I sold HOMER a few weeks after I purchased it -- it moved too slowly, and it wasn't a good fit for DD10.

 

I think some kids are more advanced with grammar then what is assigned. Especially after doing FLL and Aesop and Latin. Too much busy work. If you decide to tackle the corebook instead, the first couple of weeks are fairly smooth, but then you start to see how your child is way past one level, but then may need another week at a current level. (You'd have to see the corebook to understand the skill levels) Even as someone as motivated as me, I was getting really bogged down.

:iagree:

 

DD10 was beyond what was being presented in the lessons, and I became tired of going through the levels - I must have a more seamless approach.

 

You're also not writing paragraphs right away, but with CW Homer, at first you're just retelling (which you spend all of Aesop doing)--so, just preference, time, method, etc, etc.

 

:iagree: DD10 found there to be too much work that she had already done for three years and she had moved beyond.

 

Sorry for butting in again, but talking about writing keeps my mind off of math. :tongue_smilie:

 

Your input is greatly appreciated by me as you spoke about much of CW Homer that didn't work for us -- thanks

[siloam]

For some, the progymnasmata is a pretty big deal. The differences are the method. You're going to find similarities and differences in all writing programs. The end result is usually the same. As interesting as I found the progym, I found CW was just moving too slow for my dd. I'm still planning to bring back the progym at some point, with or without CW, in the future. I'll probably do it with ancient history in 9th.

 

I love both programs, but MCT is the one my dd prefers. I would have trudged it out with CW if she preferred that. I think the workbooks make Homer more accessible, but I think some kids are more advanced with grammar then what is assigned. Especially after doing FLL and Aesop and Latin. Too much busy work. If you decide to tackle the corebook instead, the first couple of weeks are fairly smooth, but then you start to see how your child is way past one level, but then may need another week at a current level. (You'd have to see the corebook to understand the skill levels) Even as someone as motivated as me, I was getting really bogged down.

 

With MCT, there's no real prep for me at all, but I still feel like we're getting plenty. You're also not writing paragraphs right away, but with CW Homer, at first you're just retelling (which you spend all of Aesop doing)--so, just preference, time, method, etc, etc.

 

Sorry for butting in again, but talking about writing keeps my mind off of math. :tongue_smilie:

 

To me it looks like they are different philosophies. Now I do CW and have only looked at MCT, so I don't have a full picture of MCT.

 

What works for me about CW is that there isn't creative writing. My kids are pretty concrete thinkers. My oldest loves to change the details, setting and characters in the CW models, but she hates coming up with an original thought. She can with non-fiction because she has a structured base to begin with (concrete information), but with fiction she totally freezes. My 2nd dd is even more concrete, and prefers to just re-write the CW model without changing anything.

 

MCT from what I can see is very gentle about it's sequence, not requiring the child to do a lot of original thought right off, and approaching what it does ask for slowly. It has a definite grammar focus, but of all traditional programs I have seen this one would be tops on my list.

 

For my kids needs I still prefer the CW approach. For those who have kids who can do fiction writing, MCT looks great.

 

Heather

 

[Matryoshka]

For those who have kids who can do fiction writing, MCT looks great.

 

 

MCT writing does not include any fiction writing at all. Its emphasis is formal academic writing.

 

There is of course the poetics component, but that is separate and still quite different from fiction or "creative" writing. The poetics are to show you how to better use language and poetic devices in all your writing.

[Mom-ninja.]

I spent some time looking at the samples from each, and I am leaning toward MCT. While I love the classical approach to writing, CW looks like there is too much planning for me to actually use it. The samples confused me whereas the MCT samples made sense.

 

Who knows, maybe by the time we're done with WWE 4, the next level will be out. :D

[siloam]

MCT writing does not include any fiction writing at all. Its emphasis is formal academic writing.

 

There is of course the poetics component, but that is separate and still quite different from fiction or "creative" writing. The poetics are to show you how to better use language and poetic devices in all your writing.

 

Sorry, I was thinking original writing, which is different from fiction. I completely misstated that. I would guess my oldest dd could do this program. My 2nd dd would probably still freeze. But compared to other programs I have seen I think this is one of the best at holding the child's hands, and admittedly probably a better job of holding the parents hands than CW does.

 

Heather

 

[shukriyya]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. It's been helpful and while I'm still unsure which program we'll eventually use I have a better idea of some of the differences between the two.