Almost ready to throw in the towel on homeschooling...

[Susu]

A brief history. I have homeschooled my four children for almost 12 years. My older two children (now grown up) first did private school where I taught 3rd grade, then when I had my third child, they went to public school for a semester. It was then that I first decided to homeschool. I taught them for several years (using WTM as my guide) and then they went to public school for high school.

 

With my younger two I have mostly always homeschooled them. My son is now in 6th grade and my daughter in 3rd. They have each had two different semesters in public school. My daughter did a semester in kindergarten and another in first grade. My son did a semester each of 3rd and 4th grade. I was not impressed with their public school experience for different reasons. For my daughter, they were using "whole language" for reading and she was not getting it. She is also a late bloomer and was not handling the work well. For my son in 3rd grade it was all about test prep and he had HOURS of homework each night. Then in 4th grade it was the opposite...no challenge and very little homework.

 

Some of those issues have been resolved by homeschooling. My daughter is now doing much better in reading, though she is still not as advanced as I'd like her to be. My son is older an able to handle a larger workload now, if needed.

 

So every day I am increasingly frustrated and unsure of what to do to help my children be what they can be. They either fight constantly...or they play in a silly, vacuous fashion. They have become accustomed to a relaxed routine and often are doing school work after supper, with me constantly nagging them to just get it done. But these issues are relatively easy to address...my concerns go even deeper.

 

My daughter seems to be developing some real issues. She twitches and jerks when she gets mad at her brother...which can be every five seconds since what really makes her mad is her brother sniffing or coughing. Yes, sniffing. He has allergies. And this really comes out during my teaching time. If I ignore the twitches, she starts to yelp or whine. More and more I have to stop every few sentences and address the behavior. It makes for a very long teaching session mostly comprised of dealing with these behaviors and/or my son's response to them. There are other "tics" that she has developed too...so much so that my husband and I are concerned that something else...like Tourettes or OCD is going on with her. She is harder and harder to deal with when in this mode, and it all seems to center around her over-focus on her brother. She can't bear for him to even touch something that she is going to touch. She thinks it will "turn her into a boy". If I discipline her by sending her to her room for a time out, sometimes she just hypes up into an out of control tantrum. You can't reason with her in these times, though thankfully this is not every day. Other times she is sweet as can be (other than the brother issue).

 

Her brother is an easy going guy, but I think this is starting to take a toll on him. He is more and more often engaging in angry outbursts with her...and I can't really blame him.

 

My concern is that maybe they need a break from each other and maybe from me too. Maybe another outside teacher could get more out of them. Maybe some peer pressure would change some of these socially unacceptable behaviors. Maybe my daughter needs some further testing and outside interventions.

 

My older son seems to be getting lazier and lazier. He is hard to get up in the morning, and hard to push into doing his work until late in the day...and then he quickly finishes.

 

I am worried that they both need the more rigid structure a classroom would provide and that I need a break. I struggle to control my anger...and I usually do, but I feel like a martyr, which is not good. I am at a loss as to how to deal with my daughter...simple discipline strategies seem to have no effect on these particular issues.

 

I am very tempted right now to put them in school in January just to see...to give it a semester. I could always re-evaluate. But it makes me feel like a failure. I have done the semester trial twice before. I feel like a waffler...and really I am waffling. The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

We are doing Sonlight...which I love, and I feel the kids are being well-educated. But these social/behavioral issue are growing beyond me. I don't like feeling this "out there" and unsure of myself all the time. I never know how to deal with this. And most of the time I just want to get school over with. Not a great environment for education.

 

What do you think? Can anyone relate or have words of wisdom?

 

TIA

Susu

Edited November 5, 2009 by Susu

[Caribbean Queen]

My daughter seems to be developing some real issues. She twitches and jerks when she gets mad at her brother...which can be every five seconds since what really makes her mad is her brother sniffing or coughing. ...There are other "tics" that she has developed too...so much so that my husband and I are concerned that something else...like Tourettes or OCD is going on with her. ...She can't bear for him to even touch something that she is going to touch. She thinks it will "turn her into a boy". If I discipline her by sending her to her room for a time out, sometimes she just hypes up into an out of control tantrum.

 

 

I'd be afraid the other kids at school would eat her alive. :(

[momofkhm]

:grouphug::grouphug: Susu

 

Honestly, I don't think that public school is going to help your daughter. With what you've described, she may need more than just discipline.

 

You may all need a break from each other but I don't think ps is the answer you need right now. What about a co-op starting in January or sports or outside classes? Are the kids getting one on one time? Maybe they need more mom time, but time without sibling?

 

I wish I had an answer for you. :grouphug::grouphug:

[chiguirre]

If you suspect your dd has a neurological or psychological disability, I'd ask your pediatrician for a referral today. If you're uninsured or underinsured, contact your local public school for an evaluation. This isn't as good as a the medical route because they won't have the expertise to assess neurological problems, but it's better than nothing until you can get into a neurologist or psychiatrist.

 

Once you know where you stand with your dd, I'd discuss the situation with your ds. Can you come up with a plan together for his education? What would he prefer, more independent work at home or going to an institutional school? I don't think you can come to a decision on this front until you know more about what's causing your dd's tics.

 

I would strongly recommend against putting your dd in school until you know what's going on with her. If she suffers tics in class, she'll likely be the target of bullying. It would also be very difficult for her to keep up academically if she's using all her mental energy to avoid tics (and the ensuing teasing). You can have testing done through the school without enrolling in most places.

 

:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Your sixth grader should be able to do much of his work independently. Give him a schedule and a clipboard and let him go somewhere quiet where he will not be a distraction to his sister or be bullied by her.

 

Your dd needs to be evaluated by a pediatrician in my opinion. From reading her on the boards, some children do develop tics around her age that go away but she seems to be escalating. If she is developing tics or tourettes or OCD it is not because of homeschooling and public or private school with not fix it.

[Pippen]

Your dd needs to be evaluated by a pediatrician in my opinion. From reading her on the boards, some children do develop tics around her age that go away but she seems to be escalating. If she is developing tics or tourettes or OCD it is not because of homeschooling and public or private school with not fix it.

 

It's really hard to be around fighting all day and it's plenty tough being around a challenging child all day. It does sound like your daughter has reached a point where she needs to be seen by professionals, especially if her issues are escalating. Might be time to pick up the phone and talk to a nurse at your pediatrics office to discuss an evaluation process for your daughter. At least you'd know you'll be one your way for some possible answers and help with her challenges.

 

Hang in there.

[Susu]

Thanks for the replies. I know that I need to get her evaluated, but part of me is dragging my feet. Maybe I don't want a definitive diagnosis...as long as I don't know for sure I can hold up hope that it will pass...kwim?

 

I go back and forth with it. I also don't have a clue as to who would be the best person in my area to see her. We have only lived here a couple of years and the area is not known for great medical expertise.

 

I think I do need to separate them more, and they already do separate for independent work. I suppose I need to not teach them their core subjects together at all, but I hate to do all that reading aloud twice. Some of it is on a high reading level designed for the parent to read aloud. But when I think about it, this only applies to just a portion of the reading. I can certainly assign him more than I do now, and maybe focus a little more on her.

 

We do have one on one times with each of the kids fairly often. I don't think that is the issue really. It is just something she has fixated on and he is pulled into the dynamic.

 

She doesn't seem to have problems with the kids in the neighborhood. Today we went to the dentist and she was bright and engaging and full of personality. It is like there is a dual personality sometimes. Sweet, and smart and engaging one minute, and full of unreasoning rage the next. I don't know how to parent her. I don't know how much is out of her control and how much is not. If it was something like Tourettes, then I don't have a clue how to begin.

 

Thanks for your advice and encouragement. I have homeschooled a long time and know that times like this come and go. But I think with this escalation of issues I was feeling overwhelmed and looking for escape...

 

Susu

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

You could try allergy shots for your son--they have been really helpful for me, I used to be so bad I couldn't even mow the lawn, now I'm so much better and on high allergy days generally need only 1/2 a claritin, before a whole one helped some but not enough. I can also now mow the lawn if I take a shower afterwards. It took 3 to 5 months before I started to notice a difference.

 

You could also try my phonics lessons with your daughter while you work with your son in a different room.--most of the lessons have spelling words, just have her bring you a list of the words.

 

Edit: Also, could you record yourself when you read aloud? You could rotate who gets your "real" voice and who gets the recording.

[Susu]

Wow...what a great idea about recording my voice reading! I never thought of that, but it would solve some of the issues right away. Hmm...what would I use to record my voice? I am not sure of the best method anymore since the last time I recorded something like a story was on a tape recorder!

 

Susu

[ElizabethB]

A microphone on your computer or they have some digital recorders now that are fairly inexpensive.

 

If you have a mac, I know how to do it on the computer, if you have a PC, you'll have to post a question for help, I'm sure someone knows how.

 

Digital voice recorders on amazon:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Voice-Recorders-Audio-Video/b?ie=UTF8&node=227758

[runamuk]

My daughter seems to be developing some real issues. She twitches and jerks when she gets mad at her brother...which can be every five seconds since what really makes her mad is her brother sniffing or coughing. Yes, sniffing. He has allergies. And this really comes out during my teaching time. If I ignore the twitches, she starts to yelp or whine. More and more I have to stop every few sentences and address the behavior. It makes for a very long teaching session mostly comprised of dealing with these behaviors and/or my son's response to them. There are other "tics" that she has developed too...so much so that my husband and I are concerned that something else...like Tourettes or OCD is going on with her. She is harder and harder to deal with when in this mode, and it all seems to center around her over-focus on her brother. She can't bear for him to even touch something that she is going to touch. She thinks it will "turn her into a boy". If I discipline her by sending her to her room for a time out, sometimes she just hypes up into an out of control tantrum. You can't reason with her in these times, though thankfully this is not every day. Other times she is sweet as can be (other than the brother issue).

 

 

 

If you can, please have her evaluated. My daughter started showing these signs when she was a bit older (6th grade) and it was brushed off as part of her ADHD, then as OCD even though the symptoms didn't fit well with either one. Nothing we did helped and her tics and sensitivities slowly got worse. It wasn't until she was 16 that she was diagnosed with Asperberger's and everything made sense. But by then, she was considered too old to start therapy (therapy is most effective if started in the grammar school years). We tried it anyway but didn't see much, if any, improvement. I'm not diagnosing your child, but if there is something going on, it's better to start treatment early instead waiting until it may be too late for anything to be effective.

 

A way we found to help our oldest cope with the sounds she found annoying was to let her listen to music while she was working. For her, it blocked out all the sounds that bothered her - allergy/cold sniffles, people breathing too loudly, pencil scratchings, and others talking - and allowed her to concentrate on her own work. Maybe while you're working with your son or they're doing independent work, your daughter could listen to some music on a pair of headphones.

 

Do you have a scheduled break coming up soon? Could you move it up? We took last week off because I was feeling stressed and the kids were getting cranky, dragging their feet and fighting with each other. We stocked up on books from the library, ordered semi-educational dvds from Netflix, and spent a great deal of time outside and playing games. You could have the time to weigh your options before making any big decisions and look into having your daughter checked out by a doctor.

 

 

:grouphug:

[Susu]

I have a Macbook Pro and an Itouch.

 

I called Apple and they said I could either use a earbud with mic for my Itouch (since it has a voice memo recorder) or I could get a mic for the USB port and use garage band. Either way I could save the file to Itunes and then let the kids listen to it on the ipod!

 

Do you have a simpler way?

 

Susu

[ElizabethB]

You can use the microphone on your iSight if you have one and record either on Garage band or into iMovie in the voiceover section.

 

If not, you need an iMic and a microphone. I find that our iSight gives better audio than most microphones and you can also use it for videoconferencing, I bought a microphone for my phonics movies but ended up switching to the iSight we already had, its audio is much clearer and compresses better.

[Susu]

Is Isight an application? I don't see it anywhere. Is it possible it is not installed? I just got my Macbook this summer, so I am still learning the ropes!

 

Susu

[ElizabethB]

iSight is a camera for video conferencing. We have an external one, so you can bring it close to your mouth and use it for audio recording. It looks like they don't sell the external one anymore, though.

 

Your cheapest option is probably the earbud for the iTouch, to get a microphone for the computer you have to buy either a USB microphone or an iMic with a plug in microphone or headset/microphone. The voice memo recorder is probably less trouble than Garage Band, too, the last time I used Garage Band for audio, you had to export into iTunes and then change the audio type to mp3.

[Pippen]

Thanks for the replies. I know that I need to get her evaluated, but part of me is dragging my feet. Maybe I don't want a definitive diagnosis...as long as I don't know for sure I can hold up hope that it will pass...kwim?

 

I go back and forth with it. I also don't have a clue as to who would be the best person in my area to see her. We have only lived here a couple of years and the area is not known for great medical expertise.

 

No parent wants to start this process but as was already mentioned, there may be issues going on that would respond best to therapy so it's best not to delay. I think this time is the hardest--suspecting there's something underlying the problems--but not having answers yet. Once you have answers you at least will have some tangible direction to go in instead of floundering around trying to deal with multiple issues and feeling like you aren't getting anywhere.

 

Usually the types of specialists dealing with these issues require a referral.

The first step in starting the evaluation process going is to make an appointment with your pediatrician, or family practitioner. Call and talk to the pediatric nurse and the will set up an appointment of an appropriate length with you. With a child of this age when there are both behavioral and possible neurological issues it's appropriate to request to speak to the doctor alone for part of the appointment. Bring a list of concerns along to discuss covering all of your concerns.

 

From there, the doctor should make the referrals to appropriate specialists (and often they even set up the appointments). If Tourette's is suspected, it would mean an evaluation by a pediatric neurologist. If she's really sensitive to noises such as sniffling or has other red flags for not handling sensory stimuli well, then an occuptional therapy evaluation is indicated. For behavioral aspects, I think it's good to start with a developmental pediatrician or pediatric neuropsychologist first, depending on who is available in your area. Your doctor will help you out here. If you live in an area without any pediatric specialists its common to have to travel to a city that has a Children's Hospital or university hospital.

[Mama Bear]

Thanks for the replies. I know that I need to get her evaluated, but part of me is dragging my feet. Maybe I don't want a definitive diagnosis...as long as I don't know for sure I can hold up hope that it will pass...kwim?

 

I go back and forth with it. I also don't have a clue as to who would be the best person in my area to see her. We have only lived here a couple of years and the area is not known for great medical expertise.

 

.....

 

She doesn't seem to have problems with the kids in the neighborhood. Today we went to the dentist and she was bright and engaging and full of personality. It is like there is a dual personality sometimes. Sweet, and smart and engaging one minute, and full of unreasoning rage the next. I don't know how to parent her. I don't know how much is out of her control and how much is not. If it was something like Tourettes, then I don't have a clue how to begin.

 

Thanks for your advice and encouragement. I have homeschooled a long time and know that times like this come and go. But I think with this escalation of issues I was feeling overwhelmed and looking for escape...

 

Susu

 

Given the above, my personal experience, and what I've observed in close friends and family dealing with similar things in their kids -- You need to know that the sooner you act, the sooner you can move on. The one thing I hear over and over from parents who've gotten their kids evaluated and then followed up with whatever help they need is that they wish they'd done it sooner. They look back and see the weeks, months, years, that they were slogging along, doing their darndest and then some, and can compare that to the difference in their children after they've gotten help -- the parents often feel as though they lost time there in the middle.

 

I'm sure it won't be easy to tease out the best or most appropriate resources in your area, but the payoff is life-altering. Be of good courage.

 

:grouphug:

[Susu]

Thanks. I am going to call our Family care doctor tomorrow. I don't know how knowledgeable he will be since he is a new guy and I haven't met him yet. But it will be a start.

 

Thanks for all the encouragement everyone. I will hang in there, and you have all talked me off the ledge for now!;)

 

Susu

[Jean in Newcastle]

Re. the reading aloud. You know, you can still do it low-tech. Use your cassette tape recorder or if you don't have one, go to Radio Shack, they still sell the very same basic recorder that I had in the 70's. You can still buy cassettes too. Use the microphone built into the recorder or buy a small handheld microphone that will plug into the recorder - you should be able to get that at Radio Shack too.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I'm jumping in a bit late, but I just wanted to throw out a couple more ideas. Your daughter sounds so much like my son, and we've made such progress in the past year, I want to share some of the things that have helped.

 

By any chance, did your daughter have any periods of illness/infections that required a lot of antibiotics? You know that antibiotics kill good bacteria in the gut, but do you know that seratonin is produced in the gut? The lack of good bacteria allow an overgrowth of yeast fungus, and inhibit the production of seratonin. The lace of seratonin drastically affects the nervous system. For my son, it made him completely unable to cope with little annoyances (like the sound of his older sister sniffling with alergies, or the smell of her eating Cheerios, or the sound of her breathing through her mouth). What helped most was giving him acidophilus and various oils that help make his digestive system work better. Cutting way back on sugar helps a ton, too (as yeast feeds on sugar).

 

Have you heard of Dianne Craft? She's a special ed teacher in Littleton, CO who has done a ton of research on the biology of behavior. I would highly recommend you buy her CD set by that name "The Biology of Behavior". What you describe sounds exactly like what she addresses in her lecture. The lecture is about 4 hours long, and in it she gives very specific ideas that you can try (starting with acidophilus (lots of it) and going on to add anti-fungal supplements, and DHA-EHA oils and other essential fatty acids, and various other things).

 

She also teaches about how to help struggling learners -- bright kids who seem to just have a glitch that causes their long term memory to act like teflon. She believes it has a lot to do with the corpus-collosum, and that information just doesn't get from the short term memory into the long term memor. She has very good exercises that help the brain to function properly, and turn teflon memory in to velcro memory. She has a DVD series called something like "Helping the Struggling Learner" that is a good introduction. She sells other materials that help implement her ideas.

 

You can check out her website at http://www.diannecraft.com.

 

We've done other things that have helped, and certainly ds's age/maturity has helped. He is more aware of his own behavior, and is learning to control it even when he feels terrible. It's been a long road, and we're not done yet, but it's so much better than it used to be.

 

Hang in there. Don't give up. Feel free to pm me if you would like to chat more.

Suzanne

[helena]

Hi, a few weeks ago my 8yo daughter started having really bad tics. Because my 10 yo daughter and my husband already have Tourette Syndrome, I'm assuming as is the Dr. that she also has TS. Now we wait a year to see if the tics continue, and that it includes both vocal and physical tics.

From what I understand, it's fairly common for a kid to develop a tic only to have it disappear within a years time. Hopefully that will be your situation.

 

In the mean time there are some great websites to learn about TS. Things that help with TS would actually be great for any kid. Here are some things that have made a big difference for our girls:

 

sleep

going to bed at a regular, early time, it's a chance for the body to take a break from all those exhausting tics.

 

diet

we've removed the majority of sugar, white flour, and food dyes from their diet.

 

baths

sometimes I add epsom salts, which helps her tension and helps her sleep better (she has sleep issues)

 

supplements

http://www.calmnatural.com/kidscalm

http://www.planetaryherbals.com/products/GP1610/

Barlean's total omega oil

 

we're just slowly trying different things, to see what helps. I've been reading that allergies may be related to some TS (hers are bad) so we will probably look into that, & try to make sure there's not a food that she's having a reaction to.

 

My little one has suddenly become hyper, and very easy to set off. She also has moments of rage and obsessive behavior. It's been a big adjustment in and out of the classroom. I've had to find a balance of being flexible and setting my standards. I've removed nintendo, computer games (we don't have video games, but things like webkins and games on American Girl),and tv (even though we only have dvds & not cable). We are going back to the basics for fun, playing outside, reading, books on cd, sewing, drawing etc.

 

Like you said, a lot of your classroom problems are easy to address. With a proper diagnosis, and some research under your belt, I bet you could find lots of improvement. Public school can be rough for a kid with tics, my husband had a hard time and got in a lot of fights. It's also a real crapshoot as to how she'll be treated by the teachers, adults can be just as mean as kids. The peer pressure won't do anything good for your daughter if she has TS. If that's what's going on she can't help what she's doing. The peer pressure would be teasing, humiliating, and mocking. Nothing good could come from that. I'm not saying that's what would happen, loads of kids go to school with tics, and manage just fine. I'm just saying peer pressure won't help her stop having tics.

 

Can you remove any busy work, and get super disciplined with the basics? It might be most important that you develop a simple strict day, where she has a chance to finish all of her work, and move on to free play. A classical education is so rigorous, it couldn't possibly work for everyone all of the time.

 

I can relate to a lot of what you're saying here. I've found it encouraging to reach out and talk to other moms dealing with this type of stuff. There is a collective knowledge you can tap into, to find little things that help, and a sympathetic ear. Make sure you get time to yourself, you are no good to anyone including yourself if you burn out. These problems can last a long time, pace yourself.

best of luck to you- :grouphug:

Edited November 6, 2009 by helena