Amber in AUS Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I am trying to find a program that just covers grammar, no composition, in an engaging way for a bright child with an excellent memory. She is more than ready to add to her toolkit with grammar but isn't ready to write nor do i want her to yet. I have considered FLL but we already do narration, dictation and copywork daily, I just want the grammar, plus i think it would move too slowly for my DD without actually using what she is learning IMO. I have thought about R & S 2 which looks like i would teach the concept and have the child work with that concept (which is essentially what i am after) but the christian content is perhaps a little too much for me. I have also considered Shurley but i am just not sure about that. Being scripted would be good. I have no grammar experience. I need something that will hold my hand all the way, scripted is good. She enjoys structure to her lessons, here is the concept and now we practice using it. We are loving BJU math and AAS for those exact reasons. What other programs can i look at? What would be your personal choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I would say that Michael Clay Thompson fits the first half of your description, but not your second. You would get TM for Grammar Island, Sentence Island and the TM & SB for Practice Island for 3rd/4th grade. Or The same configuration for the Town level (4th/5th). It is a really awesome program, but is not "scripted". It is written in a way that explains everything in a simple, elegant and humorous style. It does not follow a set "lesson" though. It would be more or less up to you (and your child) where a lesson stopped. There are natural stopping places, but...it has little bubbles on the side of pages for discussion ideas on certain pages, and teacher pages in the back for more ideas. You definitely do not need any grammar knowledge to make this program work. I re-learned everything that I *thought* I knew.... This is my suggestion as it is my only grammar program, and we love it. However, it is NOT for everyone... but might be worth a look. I know that I wish we had this program when I was my kid's age! If you don't feel very confident, it might seem to weird, but MCT is really good at what he does... he is really the teacher, you are just the "presenter". :001_smile: Good luck! Whatever you choose will be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I would still do FLL 1/2, but modify how you use it. Skip the dictation, narration, copywork, picture study, etc. (we did), and fly through the 1st grade portion, doing just the lessons that introduce each new concept. In that way she'll get an age-appropriate, developmentally appropriate, fun lesson that introduces a new grammar topic and memorize the def. Skip everything else and move on. In the 2nd grade section, you'll probably slow down a bit but still skip a lot of the repetition. From there take your choice of R&S3, FLL3, Shurley, whatever. FLL does need some heavy modification for some kids, but it's still worth the effort. And by the time you finish it, even doing it that way, she'll but just enough older that she'll be ready to write a bit. You'll also be starting to see her personality and know what you think will fit her. R&S has a workbook ($2.50) that would cut down the writing. FLL 3 comes as a workbook. Shurley probably has the least writing of any of them, since you just label stuff. We then diagram one of the sentences on a whiteboard. Grammar programs can fit one student better than another with personality. My dd likes the funny sentences and short lessons of Shurley, so we've stayed with it despite it not having diagramming and having an obnoxious tm. A program like that is way too expensive to use with a 5 yo when something like FLL1/2, with modification, will work just as well or even better. I think the introductory lessons of each part of speech in FLL1/2 are SO good, it's definitely worth the effort to use, even when you have to remove the repetition, skip stuff, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 BTW, when my dd was that age, a LOT of us on the boards were doing FLL1/2 with K5ers. It just isn't talked about so much on the current boards. It's not at all unusual with advanced/capable kids. Do it and just modify to make it fit her. It's definitely worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbajgrow Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 We do FLL and skip through a lot too! My son knew what a proper and common noun were by day 2 and couldn't stand to do another lesson on them. It's really easy to skip things and not have to worry about missing something. My son is a grammar wiz and memorizes things the first day. I just don't need to review for days and days with him. I'll do a poem with him one day and he has it memorized by the end of the day. Writing is an option. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 Thankyou for your responses. Korin - MCT scares the pants off me. I just don't get how to use it. Also as a 3rd grade program i am not sure my DD would be quite ready for that. I did look at some of the samples but fear she would take the stories a little too literally at this point, but then maybe i just don't get it and she would. I'm not confident enough in my own abilities as a HS Mum to jump right in on this one yet. OhElizabeth & Jen - Thankyou for pointing out that i can just skip over a lot of FLL. I knew that i could, but just didn't want to spend the money on something where i wouldn't use half of it. I kind of just wanted to find the perfect program and use that, but perhaps I should just go with FLL. I think i can get it as an ebook now which would certainly save on postage and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 KISS grammar is free. http://home.pct.edu/~evavra/KISS.htm If you click on workbooks and then scroll halfway down there are printable, already assembled workbooks. It starts with grade 2, but grade 2 is just the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesa Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 FLL was the perfect fit for my son. The lessons are short and sweet. FLL is scripted. I love that it's open and go, and it doesnt take up my entire day. Plus... it's GOOD. I cant say enough good things about FLL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Korin - MCT scares the pants off me. I just don't get how to use it. Also as a 3rd grade program i am not sure my DD would be quite ready for that. I did look at some of the samples but fear she would take the stories a little too literally at this point, but then maybe i just don't get it and she would. I'm not confident enough in my own abilities as a HS Mum to jump right in on this one yet. MCT has some LA books for younger kids here. I didn't know about them when my kids were young enough to use them, but they look interesting. There unfortunately aren't any sample pages, but they aren't very expensive so might be worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 MCT has some LA books for younger kids here. I didn't know about them when my kids were young enough to use them, but they look interesting. There unfortunately aren't any sample pages, but they aren't very expensive so might be worth checking out. The Aesop books are not actually done by MC Thompson. Both authors use Royal Fireworks Press as a publisher. (Matroyshka - I have those books if you had any specific questions.) Here is another link from KISS grammar. I used these pages with my dd when she was 5 or 6. http://home.pct.edu/~evavra/kiss/wb/LPlans/G03_RK.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 MCT has some LA books for younger kids here. I didn't know about them when my kids were young enough to use them, but they look interesting. There unfortunately aren't any sample pages, but they aren't very expensive so might be worth checking out. I did see those on the site when i was looking. Would they have enough grammar do you think? Maybe i should e-mail and ask them. Maybe they would be a nice addition anyway. Some memorising from FLL and some work in these could round out our LA program. That is sounding like a plan :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela&4boys Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I've been eyeing Singapore Grammar. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Haahaha! :) If MCT scares you, then it is probably not a good fit. It is not scary at all, but there is so much out there that you have plenty of good stuff to choose from. I had the aesop books, they are cute, not stressful etc... I think Rainbow resource sells them, so you could buy 1 of the 4 (to try them out) through them while getting something else. Whatever you end up choosing... never be afraid to skip around in the book, skip something then come back to it, or change a lesson. Even if you aren't very confident, the author did not have your child in mind when they wrote the program... they might need something extra, they might understand a concept immediately and not need much reinforcement, or something just might not make any sense depending on how it is approached. Never buy into the idea that what you end up choosing is the only way to go. Have confidence! You can do this! trust your instinct, not any one book (or poster on a web group:)) and have a great time. If they don't get it, they will eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Thanks for your words of wisdom Korin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenninMN Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Evan-Moor carries a series called Grammar & Punctuation that sounds like what you described. It has a rule, followed by 3 pages of practice. When I used it, I added copywork that illustrated the same rule. It is available as an e-book--no shipping. Here are some freebies I've found. Maybe one of these would work for you. http://www.mhschool.com/reading/treasure_workbooks/national.html http://macmillanmh.com/languagearts/2001/teacher/teachres/workbooks.html http://www.sfreading.com/resources/ghb.html Hope these help. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Growing With Grammar is no-nonsense, straightforward, and secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amtmcm Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 You have loads of good suggestions, but I'll add a few more to the mix: Grammar Land - free on GoogleBooks, is a living story about grammar. Sentence Family - for the child who likes to draw &/or use tracing paper. Covers the 8 parts of speech and beginning diagramming. Very fun for a creative child. The jingles used in Shurley English really stick. My DD's didn't like Shurley, but they certainly remember it. Cozy Grammar - this gets pretty in depth, so it might be better in a year or two. Here's the TOC which I typed from the video sample. Kinds of Sentences Subject & Predicate Main Subject Main Predicate Order in Sentences Nouns Pronouns Verbs Verb Phrases Principal Verbs Auxiliary Verbs Agreement of Verbs Tense of Verbs Transitive Verbs Intransitive Verbs Copula Verbs Adjectives Comparing Adjectives Adverbs Kinds of Adverbs Comparing Adverbs Prepositions Adjective Phrases Adverb Phrases Misplaced Phrases Conjunctions Principle Clauses Subordinate Clauses Compound Sentences Complex Sentences Interjections Conjugation of Verbs Common Errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 What other programs can i look at? What would be your personal choice? FLL I know you already eliminated that one. :D We also use WWE, which means I don't need the copywork, dictation and narration in FLL. There is still plenty in FLL after taking out those three. On days when one of those is scheduled we just go review one of the poems and maybe a grammar definitions. No big deal. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Thanks for those new ideas. Ann C - thankyou for taking the time to type up the info for Cozy Grammar :) Grammar Land looks like it might be a nice addition to any grammar program! I thought i had made up my mind, now to look at more :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 FLL 1/2 is a good choice. Also, because of the limited writing, I'd suggest Easy Grammar...you could even ask the questions orally on some of them that require writing. You must have one smart 5 yr old on your hands :001_smile: Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks Alison, she certainly keeps me on my toes :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Amber, I wanted to mention, taking into consideration our talks about math, that you don't need to be too in the box about grammar. Sure, teach grammar, do dictation, etc. But really what you're wanting, when they start to have that readiness for more, is latin. It's perfectly reasonable to do Prima Latina at that age. Now they have so many more programs than when my dd was little. There's Song School Latin, Lively Latin, all sorts of stuff. I'd probably hold off on Lively latin till at least 1st, more likely 2nd, just so she can do the writing. You always have this balance of what they can do intellectually vs. what they're ready to write. But my dd isn't much of a speller. It's the spelling that gets you if you let them move forward and don't have them write. So in any case, I'd encourage you to get out of the box and not stress too much about grammar. As SWB says, what's the point in grammar advancement? For a while on the boards it was like we had some race to see who could put their kid in R&S3 the youngest. There's just no point. Get them into something that uses and applies the grammar, that takes advantage of your dd's ability to memorize and conceptualize. Latin, French, another foreign language, you have lots of options. You can't do them all equally well, but you can certainly start, doing some well and exposing to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 OhElizabeth, if we still had rep points, I'd give you rep for that post! Poor Amber can't help being a Virgo :) ;) Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.