HELP!!! CW-Aesop & Homer.............

[MariannNOVA]

We've started these this week -- DD10 (5th grade) and twins (3rd grade) -- We all like it.....the kids really like it.

 

I, however, have not had the 'aha' moment -- I like it, but :confused:I spend ALOT of time trying to figure out what we do next.:confused: I am going to sit down again tonight and read it again.....I'm an intelligent person......WHAT am I missing?

 

I don't care for Harvey's Grammar, and the kids have told me they prefer JAG (which we were doing) -- so we are going to do JAG in place of Harvey's.

 

See those big red words up there :confused: - that's where I need help.

 

Thanks in advance! :001_huh:

[Mesa]

I started CW 2 weeks ago. I'm still spending a lot of time on just understanding what I am supposed to be doing, and how to teach whatever it is. LOL

Sooo I then bought your IEW TWSS you had for sale! ROFL

I am splitting up the writing portion and doing that alone the week following our weekly lesson. It'll take us twice as long to finish CW this way.

I'll probably finish out CW this year and move onto IEW this summer.

[SilverMoon]

I just follow the order of events in the TE. I started out doing it like their sample/recommended schedule suggested, and we quickly learned where to tweak it to fit us better. Ds and I fell into a pattern that was comfy after a couple lessons and we've stuck with that pattern thus far.

 

We didn't change to their grammar. Ds had been in R&S before starting CW and it hasn't caused any ripples yet. He's grammar strong already so the CW grammar has been review.

 

I'm planning to start my fourth grader in Aesop A next week. I'll start her doing the 4 day A&I pattern one week (story intro and analysis, word analysis and imitation, sentence analysis and imitation, copywork/dictation), then the 4 day writing assignment the next week (outline, rough draft, edit, final draft). At this speed the 18 lessons will last an entire school year, which is how it's intended to be used from my understanding.

[Kate in Arabia]

I, however, have not had the 'aha' moment -- I like it, but I spend ALOT of time trying to figure out what we do next. I am going to sit down again tonight and read it again.....I'm an intelligent person......WHAT am I missing?

Do you mean like the day-to-day lessons what you do next? Are you using the student books and/or instructor guides? Personally, I just follow along in the student book. It has the relavent pages from the main book given in each section to be done on a given day; so each day before we get to it I skim through the student book to see what we're doing next, then go back through the core book and review the pages they have listed there. To be 100% honest, I've not read the core book cover to cover, and I think I would have a hard time getting it all together without the help of the student/instructor books.

 

What I've seen over the years we've used CW (ds has finished Aesop A & B and Poetry A, now more than half through Homer A) is that following the student book there is a core set of skills that are gradually introduced, every other week adding on a new task.

[PeterPan]

What you might have preferred was Writing Tales 1 with your youngers and WT2 with your older. Then next year your youngers would do WT2 and your older would go into Homer. At that point Homer would make a lot more sense. WT is AWESOME, easier to implement, totally spelled out, not overwhelming, and FUN. Oh, and you can keep your JAG with WT, no problem.

[MariannNOVA]

Sooo I then bought your IEW TWSS you had for sale! ROFL

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: OMH! I really liked TWSS, BUT I wanted to follow LCC as closely as possible!

 

I think your post says it all!:tongue_smilie:

[MariannNOVA]

You all clearly understand what I am talking about b/c your questions to me are excellent!

 

Yes, I am using the Core, the Instructor's Guide and the Student Workbook. I sat with all three last night and went through them as if it was the first time I opened the shipping package. I did this with Aesop -- it did make a bit more sense after reading it for the 2nd time -- I think that a couple more times with JAG in front of me (or R&S which I still have for the 3rd graders) and I might actually have wrapped my brain at least half way around it.

 

I am going to look into WT -- perhaps we should do that and then go into CW - I do have to say - all three have an excellent grasp of grammar and do seem to do narratives and other writing in a way that I would characterize as 'effortless.' They have exceeded my expectation in that respect.

 

Thanks for the answers to my plea for help -- I intend to get this figured out over the weekend so that on Monday I dont have this look :001_huh: on my face.

 

After reading last night, I think what I find confusing is determining the skill level of the kids: they do (to me) seem to be skilled in some areas of Level One Skill and some of Level Two and some of Level Three - does that make sense. I suppose I just have to address what needs to be addressed and try to keep all the balls in the air. Right?

[elegantlion]

CW takes some time to get used to. I'm a visual learner/teacher and I need to be able to see what my ds is working on, so I bought my own workbook for Homer. I did not have that for Aesop and I would go through his workbook each morning to make notes, either that or I would grab it away from him mid lesson. :001_huh: In the student book it notates which core pages are relevant to the days activities. It helped when I actually started to use those notations.

 

Although CW is an inclusive program we work to make sure the writing project is our main focus. If there were any of the other exercises my ds didn't need we wouldn't spend too much time on them. Last year was our first year with LCC and I worked to not overwhelm our schedule. So if anything seems redundant to you, pare it down and focus on what needs to be learned that week.

 

I know we could go through Aesop B a second time and it would look totally different. Don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't feel like you've done all you are supposed to, there is great flexibility in the program.

[HollyDay]

The best advice I was ever given was to make a notebook. Take a notebook and mark the first page, CW Day 1 (or Homer Day 1) level 1. Write down what you are supposed to do that day. Then do Day 2 and so on. Skip a few pages, or put a tab divider in, then start Day 1 Level 2. Continue like that until you have as many levels as you need for now. Do not overwhelm yourself doing all the levels, only the ones you need or will need in the very near future.

 

Now, when you sit down to teach, you will have your ready made teacher guide. I did this one Sat afternoon sitting on my front porch. It was quicker than I thought and it worked. Monday morning, I knew what to teach.

[MariannNOVA]

I'm a visual learner/teacher and I need to be able to see what my ds is working on, so I bought my own workbook for Homer. Me Too -- and for Aesop.

 

 

I would go through his workbook each morning to make notes, either that or I would grab it away from him mid lesson. :001_huh: Yup, did that yesterday to the point that the kids were getting annoyed with me.

 

 

Although CW is an inclusive program we work to make sure the writing project is our main focus. If there were any of the other exercises my ds didn't need we wouldn't spend too much time on them. Last year was our first year with LCC and I worked to not overwhelm our schedule. So if anything seems redundant to you, pare it down and focus on what needs to be learned that week. Thanks - sometimes I need someone to give me 'permission' to do that! :D

 

Don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't feel like you've done all you are supposed to, there is great flexibility in the program.

 

Thank you --I've taught classroom kids for years and NEVER had the feeling that I wasn't presenting things the way they should be - I told DH that now I know why ABEKA is SO popular -- anyone can pick it up and teach it! I'm not knocking it (not at all) -- but I understand why so many small Christian schools use it -- one can be fairly assured that what must be presented to the class, IS being presented to the class.

[MariannNOVA]

The best advice I was ever given was to make a notebook. Take a notebook and mark the first page, CW Day 1 (or Homer Day 1) level 1. Write down what you are supposed to do that day. Then do Day 2 and so on. Skip a few pages, or put a tab divider in, then start Day 1 Level 2. Continue like that until you have as many levels as you need for now. Do not overwhelm yourself doing all the levels, only the ones you need or will need in the very near future.

 

Now, when you sit down to teach, you will have your ready made teacher guide. I did this one Sat afternoon sitting on my front porch. It was quicker than I thought and it worked. Monday morning, I knew what to teach.

 

I am going to consider doing this -- I have prepared the Living Memory Notebook that is described in the Intro to that book and I like using it. I think that a notebook for CW may help as well -- I am typically a uber-organized nerd, and with all the commotion in our house and the fact that we will be teaching here, there, and everywhere soon, the notebook sounds like a great idea. Thanks:001_smile:

[justamouse]

I sold mine and went to R&S for that exact same reason. I just don't have the time to put in an hour of figuring out every day. After a few months of trying, I bagged it.

[siloam]

We've started these this week -- DD10 (5th grade) and twins (3rd grade) -- We all like it.....the kids really like it.

 

I, however, have not had the 'aha' moment -- I like it, but :confused:I spend ALOT of time trying to figure out what we do next.:confused: I am going to sit down again tonight and read it again.....I'm an intelligent person......WHAT am I missing?

 

I don't care for Harvey's Grammar, and the kids have told me they prefer JAG (which we were doing) -- so we are going to do JAG in place of Harvey's.

 

See those big red words up there :confused: - that's where I need help.

 

Thanks in advance! :001_huh:

 

I also do JAG with Aesop and AG with Homer, and so far it has worked fine.

 

It did take me some time to figure out Homer. Actually it was Hidden Jewel who helped me over the hump. She made a spread sheet of what was going on each week, so you could see the movement week by week. Seeing the big picture really helped a lot.

 

In Homer there is so much movement, that it is hard to find a rhythm. Reading just the core book is difficult because so many of the same skills are repeated that you get confused. For example of both: You work with synonyms in words one week, the next you move to working with synonyms in sentences. Then the week after that you begin working with synonyms in paragraphs. Now you come back to words, so that the next week you start changing nouns from common to proper and proper to common. Again it moves from words, to sentences to paragraphs. You also continue to work with the skills in sentences and paragraphs, once they are introduced, the whole way through the program, but with words you only focus on one skill at first, later there is some review.

 

You end up with this (order is not necessarily accurate):

 

Words:

1. Synonyms

2. Thesaurus

3. Change from common to proper and back

Sentences:

1. Synonyms

2. Thesaurus

3. Change from common to proper and back

Paragraphs:

1. Synonyms

2. Thesaurus

3. Change from common to proper and back

 

This is also the structure of the Core book.

 

In addition the focus of the writing changes every 4-5 weeks. It starts out as a simple re-write, then begins to work on new focuses, keeping the author's emphasis, but playing with other details. Then you work on identifying those parts most important to the story, and those not and the child is supposed to drop the details not important to the story. Next the child focuses on Non-Fiction writing vs. the fiction they have been writing still doing the important/not important detail part. The only way a child can add to this is if they do some research. The 5th writing assignment is writing a report (as in book report) by summary.

 

The other difficult thing is teaching the program. I finally gave up on teaching it and am (now with both Aesop and Homer) just reading the core pages referenced in the Student Manual. No not thrilling, and I can skim a little and summarize on the fly given I have read the core book. There is a TON of repeat in the core and once I got about 1/4 though the program I could stop reading whole sections.

 

I really think CW is a great program. Aesop I actually got right off, but Homer I felt the why the manual is written makes it more complicated than it needs to be. I think it would have worked better if they had listed things by skills and then at the end of the skill spoke to how it was applied to words, sentences and paragraphs. Instead they repeat the while thing each time first for words, then later for sentences and last for paragraphs.

 

For example:

 

Synonyms: words, sentences, paragraphs.

Thesaurus: words, sentences, paragraphs.

 

There have been people who did take their Homer core apart and arrange it that way. I did for a short period of time, but because I had already started reading from the Student pages it didn't work well for me. I then had to hunt down what I needed because the pages number no longer were in order. :D

 

I hope you are able to figure it out. I do think it is worth the pain of figuring it out.

 

Heather

 

[happygrrl]

What you might have preferred was Writing Tales 1 with your youngers and WT2 with your older. Then next year your youngers would do WT2 and your older would go into Homer. At that point Homer would make a lot more sense. WT is AWESOME, easier to implement, totally spelled out, not overwhelming, and FUN. Oh, and you can keep your JAG with WT, no problem.

 

You gave this advice to me last year, and I have been meaning to thank you for it ever since! I LOVE WT, and feel much more confident about our skills going in to Homer. (Now if she could only produce a WT 3...)

Edited October 3, 2009 by happygrrl

[PeterPan]

Happygrrl--Good, that's great to hear!! :)

[tdeveson]

After reading last night, I think what I find confusing is determining the skill level of the kids: they do (to me) seem to be skilled in some areas of Level One Skill and some of Level Two and some of Level Three - does that make sense.

 

 

Absolutely. Ds is working on Aesop B. We do level three on most of the assignments, but often I have to back up to level 2. Don't be concerned about that. By the time your little ones finish their books, they'll be consistently doing level 3 work.

[tdeveson]

I also do JAG with Aesop and AG with Homer, and so far it has worked fine.

 

It did take me some time to figure out Homer. Actually it was Hidden Jewel who helped me over the hump. She made a spread sheet of what was going on each week, so you could see the movement week by week. Seeing the big picture really helped a lot.

 

 

Heather, thank you so much for this post. I've been meaning to do this myself for a few weeks. Your post was a wonderful find for me. :thumbup1:

[NancyNellen]

If you just started this week, don't feel bad for not having your "a-ha" moment yet. It takes a while to get into a rhythm with it, but it will come. I am in my 4th year teaching CW, with one in Diogenes: Maxim, one in Homer B, and one in Aesop A. Homer was by far the hardest for me to wrap my brain around. It took a number of months to feel like I "got it."

 

I can honestly say, though, that I am so very, very pleased with this program. I would do it all again if I had to. It is methodical, thorough, and challenging, and my oldest is churning out some really fantastic writing.

 

HTH,

[MariannNOVA]

Thank you all so much! With the information that has been shared here (and I am waiting for the 'lost ark' spread sheet :)), I am in much better CW shape than I was last night!

 

I took the time to read through Homer this afternoon (:chillpill: I was having a pedicure and I would NEVER be able to close my eyes and relax no matter how good it felt) and I was struck by what I perceive to be the huge difference between Aesop and Homer. I had somehow gotten it into my head that they were the same -- one was just a little more advanced than the other...:001_huh:...I cannot imagine where that came from. At any rate, I do feel more equipped -

 

looking forward to the spread sheet and to any other pearls of wisdom that anyone might wish to share.

 

Thanks!:001_smile:

Edited October 4, 2009 by MariannNOVA

[Mrs.MacGyver]

Yes, thank you all from me too! I have been following this conversation closely as well. I have a 3rd grader starting Aesop A doing the 2 week rotation, and a 5th grader going quickly through Aesop B, trying to get to Homer by Christmas. I guess that I am doing okay with the writing part, its just that the grammar/spelling stuff always leaves me (and my kids) wondering why we are doing it as well as spelling and R&S grammar on the outside? I tell them that we are doing the Aesop skills so that we can relate the skills we are learning on the outside to the actual model...but for some reason, I just can't wrap my head around it all . I think I will try your notebook idea because I just need some things written out step by step (even with the student workbooks!). But, I really do love the program. I have seen a big improvement already in both children. Thank you all for your help and advice! I feel motivated again:D

[MariannNOVA]

its just that the grammar/spelling stuff always leaves me (and my kids) wondering why we are doing it as well as spelling and R&S grammar on the outside? I tell them that we are doing the Aesop skills so that we can relate the skills we are learning on the outside to the actual model...but for some reason, I just can't wrap my head around it all . :D

 

 

Pretty much exactly where I was and that made up the greatest part of what was confusing me. Ask HiddenJewel if she will send you the documents she prepared -- I was up until 'heaven only knows what time' reading what she sent me -- I feel much better about facing those three kids tomorrow -- her documents are beyond excellent!:001_smile:

 

We are using SPelling Workout E for DD10 and the twins are doing Phonetic Zoo from IEW Level A - and I am happy with those. I am going to stick with JAG - at least with DD10 and I will try to reinforce the twins (3rd grade) with R&S 3 which I didn't sell on the Sale board so it is still sitting here and I guess that's why.

 

Sorry for the large font - my glasses are upstairs and I am too lazy to go up and get them.:D

[siloam]

Pretty much exactly where I was and that made up the greatest part of what was confusing me. Ask HiddenJewel if she will send you the documents she prepared -- I was up until 'heaven only knows what time' reading what she sent me -- I feel much better about facing those three kids tomorrow -- her documents are beyond excellent!:001_smile:

 

We are using SPelling Workout E for DD10 and the twins are doing Phonetic Zoo from IEW Level A - and I am happy with those. I am going to stick with JAG - at least with DD10 and I will try to reinforce the twins (3rd grade) with R&S 3 which I didn't sell on the Sale board so it is still sitting here and I guess that's why.

 

Sorry for the large font - my glasses are upstairs and I am too lazy to go up and get them.:D

 

I hope you have a great week! It good to hear you are feeling better about things now, and have a plan.

 

BTW I use the large font because I was asked to by someone who has vision issues. I think there are people out there that wouldn't mind it if you used it all the time.

 

Heather

 

[HiddenJewel]

I guess that I am doing okay with the writing part, its just that the grammar/spelling stuff always leaves me (and my kids) wondering why we are doing it as well as spelling and R&S grammar on the outside?

 

I look at the grammar program (in your case R&S) as the theory part. CW lets them put that theory into practice. So it isn't actually duplication of the topic. (Although dd12 would disagree with me.)

 

PS. I have only used Homer (not Aesop).