Can we talk math facts?

[kmacnchs]

We are finishing up Abeka Math K and my dd still doesn't know her math facts. She finds the largest # and then counts on to get the answer.

 

(Please don't tell me to back off b/c she is only 3) I haven't made it a big deal b/c of her age but I am just trying to figure out how they learn their math facts. It's not like she can't memorize...she knows 7 Bible verses, is learning the books of the Bible (knows 20), and knows every Mary Poppins and Fiddler on the Roof song by heart...why can't she memorize her Math facts?

 

I know the problem is me...I just don't know what to do about it...Can someone give me a step/by/step? :bigear:

[MIch elle]

 

(Please don't tell me to back off b/c she is only 3)

 

 

Then it'll have to be:

 

:chillpill::chillpill::chillpill: :blink:

[Moni]

why can't she memorize her Math facts

 

She can.

 

Are you moving ahead on facts too quickly, not giving her "enough time" to memorize?

 

I'd stop all the math books and just do math facts.

 

Start with 3 facts (flashcards)

Do three flashcard sessions daily (morning, noon, before dinner)

Just those 3 facts, until she learns them

Then add 3 more to the stack

There will be 3 old/easy facts and 3 new/hard facts

Do those six cards three times a day until she knows them

Then

Add 3 more, so there will be 6 old/easy cards and 3 new/hard ones.

Three times daily

day after day

until she knows all 9

then add 3 more cards to the stack

9 will be old/easy, and 3 will be new/hard.

and so on and so forth

until all the Addition cards are in the stack.

 

When she knows every addition fact, set those aside

 

Pull out the multiplication cards

Just three at first

....

same routine.

 

Pull out the Subtraction cards

Just three at first

....

same routine.

 

When she knows every Subtraction fact, set those aside

and pull out the Division cards

Just three at first

....

same routine.

 

When she knows all her Subtraction cards, set those aside.

 

And start all over with Addition cards.

You will remedy and forgotten or weak recall of any straggler facts.

Same routine.

 

First addition again

Then Multiplication again

Then Subtraction again

Then Division again

 

 

And yeah, back off, she is only 3 *wink.

 

Is she reading, reading a lot, reading well, 3 times a day?

If not I would do that first, but for facts, I'd do the above.

 

 

Happy Flashing! :lol:

:seeya:

Edited August 28, 2009 by Moni

[kmacnchs]

She can.

 

Are you moving ahead on facts too quickly, not giving her "enough time" to memorize?

 

I'd stop all the math books and just do math facts.

 

Start with 3 facts (flashcards)

Do three flashcard sessions daily (morning, noon, before dinner)

Just those 3 facts, until she learns them

Then add 3 more to the stack

There will be 3 old/easy facts and 3 new/hard facts

Do those six cards three times a day until she knows them

Then

Add 3 more, so there will be 6 old/easy cards and 3 new/hard ones.

Three times daily

day after day

until she knows all 9

then add 3 more cards to the stack

9 will be old/easy, and 3 will be new/hard.

and so on and so forth

until all the Addition cards are in the stack.

 

When she knows every addition fact, set those aside

 

Pull out the multiplication cards

Just three at first

....

same routine.

 

Pull out the Subtraction cards

Just three at first

....

same routine.

 

When she knows every Subtraction fact, set those aside

and pull out the Division cards

Just three at first

....

same routine.

 

When she knows all her Subtraction cards, set those aside.

 

And start all over with Addition cards.

You will remedy and forgotten or weak recall of any straggler facts.

Same routine.

 

First addition again

Then Multiplication again

Then Subtraction again

Then Division again

 

 

And yeah, back off, she is only 3 *wink.

 

Is she reading, reading a lot, reading well, 3 times a day?

If not I would do that first, but for facts, I'd do the above.

 

 

Happy Flashing! :lol:

:seeya:

Thank you Thank you Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for! A literal step-by-step! Yes, she is reading, reading a lot, reading well, 2x/day with me (morning and afternoon) and then in the evening by herself aloud next to daddy while he works on the computer :)

 

This is why I have pushed (and I have) with Math to "get caught up" because she is reading at a 1st grade level but definitely *not* doing 1st grade math. I know I need to get over that but it is frustrating to not be on the same level (can you tell I am an EXTREME TYPE A?)

 

thanks again :D

[Corraleno]

I haven't made it a big deal b/c of her age but I am just trying to figure out how they learn their math facts. It's not like she can't memorize...she knows 7 Bible verses, is learning the books of the Bible (knows 20), and knows every Mary Poppins and Fiddler on the Roof song by heart...why can't she memorize her Math facts?

 

Memorizing math facts is very different from memorizing verses, songs or stories. With the verses and stories you have a picture in your mind to "hang" the words on; with songs you have the tune to hang the words on. Plus the words fit together with each other; if you forget a word you have the surrounding words to help you.

 

With math facts there are no pictures, no tunes, no contextual meaning to help you. It's a very abstract task, and it uses a different part of the brain. Memorizing math facts can be difficult even for 10 year olds; I think expecting a 3 yo to do it with no problem is not realistic. Her reading level is irrelevant ~ most kids develop asynchronously, so the fact that she is advanced verbally does not mean she should be pushed in other areas as well.

 

Personally, I would not try to force a 3 yo to memorize math facts with flash cards. Even if you could somehow make her do it, would she even understand the meaning of what she was memorizing? If not, then she's not learning math, she's just performing a party trick.

 

Why not find some fun CDs or videos that set math facts to music, do skip counting, etc., and just let it be a fun game rather than something she's being pressured to master?

 

Jackie

[JenneinCA]

I can tell you what we are doing...

 

He has multiple stacks of flash cards.

 

Stack 1 has 5+5, 4+6, 6+4, 3+7, 7+3, 2+8, 8+2, 1+9 and 9+1 in it. He says these cards to me. So, "Five plus five is ten." All of these cards add to ten. He loves getting all these correct.

 

Stack 2 has all the 0+something, something+0, 1+ something, something+1 cards in it. These he just needs to answer. They usually go fast.

 

Stack 3 has the 9+something and the something+9 cards in it. We practiced these with frogs and logs. Working on making 10 and getting the answer. These are slow at the beginning and then go fast too. We did the procedure described below for these cards three weeks ago.

 

And finally we have Stack 4. It has the 8+something and the something+8 cards. We are currently working on these with the frogs. He gets a log with 8 of the same color of frog and two empty spots. I show him the card and give him two frogs of the same color as his frogs and however many of another color to make the number on the card. For example for 8+3, he would have a log with 8 red frogs and two empty spots. I would give him two red frogs and a blue frog. He would put the two red frogs on his log and have one blue frog left over. And then he could see that it was ten and one or eleven.We just finished week one of the 8+,+8 cards and he is working on getting ready to give up the frogs and do it in his head. I expect that it will take another couple of weeks and then we will move on again. We did this with the 9+cards about three weeks ago. It seems to take two/three weeks of frogs for the information to sink in.

 

The frogs and logs are called Funtastic Frogs and are little colored frogs that can sit on a log with ten spots. He likes them and I do too.

 

I hope that helps.

[ElizabethB]

My daughter is ahead in reading and spelling and can memorize things faster and better than me.

 

But, math facts are painful, and they also jump out of her head if we take a break for too long.

 

RS math games and Flashmaster help.

[Moni]

He says these cards to me. So, "Five plus five is ten

 

I do facts differently.

Student just says the answer, immediately.

No extraneous reading of equations, etc.

 

See 5+5 say "10!"

 

Just fyi

 

:lol:

 

:seeya:

[EmilyK]

I'm not going to tell you you're going too fast, but just as a point of information. One of my kids is really good at verbal memorization and is overall a quick study at everything, highly verbal etc. He still is working on some of his math facts at almost 11. Turns out the areas of his strengths aren't the same thing you need to memorize math facts. Both my kids will learn them eventually -- it is very important to me -- but they're hard to learn and retain quickly for some kids, or at least harder than other things to learn.

[amyinva]

My six year old is learning his multiplication facts with Usborne Learning Wrap-Ups, so I don't know why your 3yo couldn't learn addition with them. My kids think they are fun, and they are self-correcting, so you don't need to sit there doing flash cards every time. They can do them in the car, etc. I like to alternate between these and flash cards, just to keep things interesting. Here are the ones for Addition:

 

Learning Wrap-Ups for Addition

 

:) Amy

[Mommyof4ks]

I will have to look into the wrap ups!

 

My dd is able to read and understand language very well and has a wonderful memory when it comes to language, but numbers are a whole different thing. She is 9 and still has a hard time with addition facts. Subtraction and multiplication are easier for her, but the addition are still hard. The brain is a complex thing.

[Cindyg]

We are finishing up Abeka Math K and my dd still doesn't know her math facts.

 

Most kids don't know their math facts at the end of K, even if they're six!

 

It's not like she can't memorize...she knows 7 Bible verses, is learning the books of the Bible (knows 20), and knows every Mary Poppins and Fiddler on the Roof song by heart...

 

It's not the same at all. My son could read chapter books when he was four, but he didn't have his math facts memorized until he was 12. Being brilliant in one area doesn't make you brilliant in every area.

 

And, gently, why bother? Why should your 3YO know her math facts? Can she pour water from a jug into a cup with a steady hand? Can she pick up beans and sort them by color and size? Can she tie her shoes? Can she kick a ball? (And even if the answer is yes, IMO, she'd be better off concentrating on similar tasks than studying math facts at age 3.) (Yes, I am a certified Montessori teacher. I can't help going back to those activities, even for a very, very, very gifted child.)

[Therese]

Jackie, Emily and Cindyg have given you some excellent words of wisdom with which I concur.

 

I hear your desire for your daughter to achieve at a high level. It's wonderful that you want that for her. But it's very possible that right now she isn't capable of performing the mental activity that you are asking of her.

 

Children's minds mature in different areas/abilities at different rates. Just because she is reading at 1st grade level doesn't mean that her mind is ready for first grade math. One of the most important things we parents can do is to listen to our children and respond wisely to what they reveal about their abilities - or lack thereof - through their response to us and to our efforts to get them to perform a new skill.

 

If she isn't learning what you are trying to teach her in spite of much effort, that's an indication that she isn't ready for the task. You cannot force a child's mind to mature in the area you want it to when you want it to. To illustrate my point, think of babies learning to walk. Some children walk at eight months, others don't walk until they are fifteen months old. No amount of coaching by the parents gets a baby to walk at a younger age than that set by his/her personal timetable. Yet they all do learn to walk eventually and at the age of two, an onlooker can't see any difference in the walking skills of those who began walking months after the early walkers.

 

Children have their own built-in developmental schedules. We can try to accelerate those schedules, but it will be mostly wasted effort on our part and can lead to frustration for the child who wants to please the parent but can't.

 

I know this from experience with my own children.

 

My older daughter read fluently at the age of 4 and did well in math until 7th grade when she encountered pre-algebra. She couldn't understand it although I tried. We both suffered through many tearful sessions, working together, with me trying every way I could think of to explain concepts and present examples to her. She made no progress. We tried a different program. I could see that she just wasn't getting it. I'm very strong in math, so I couldn't relate to her difficulties and didn't know what to do. Finally, I had her stop doing math. She did no math for six months. Then we began again, using the same book that had given her so much trouble. She did fine! Her mind had developed during those months and she was now mentally ready for algebra (and she became a National Merit Finalist).

 

I work with other families and have seen similar situations many times. You can't force children to do something for which their minds aren't ready. Your daughter has plenty of time to master basic math facts. Relax and enjoy these early years!

Edited August 29, 2009 by Therese
correct grammar

[kmacnchs]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement, understanding and suggestions. The main issue was that I didn't know *how* to teach math facts. We started this morning with 3 flash cards (thanks Moni!) and we'll see how it goes. Obviously, if she doesn't get it, she doesn't get it but why not try? She understands addition with manipulatives...this is the next step, right? The method of learning a little at a time is so obvious it just slipped my mind (even though that is what we are doing with books of the Bible).:001_huh:

 

A friend of mine has the learning wrap-ups (I saw them in her house) so I am going to ask her if she is finished with them...I had no clue what they were when I saw them but they seem really neat! especially in the car, as you suggested!

 

Again, I know logically that she does not have to be on the same level in all subjects, I just have to keep telling myself that because of my OCD...whatever I can blame it on right?:tongue_smilie:

[Laura Corin]

To be honest, at K level I didn't worry much about maths facts. Counting on is grade appropriate. I did lots of fun games using adding and subtracting, and slowly the facts went in. There are some great activities here.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura