This is why I love Analytical Grammar

[Sunshine State Sue]

We are on Unit #21 in AG. This is Season 3 in the midst of comma rules. Here is a question I sent to the AG yahoo group and Erin's (the author's dd) response:

Hi Erin (or anyone else who can answer),

 

re: AG Unit #21 Test - Page 3

1.4 Yes, we all sat around looking at old yearbooks, laughing at the funny hairstyles we wore, and secretly wishing with all our hearts*,* that we could go back to those good old days for a while.

 

The comma surrounded by asterisks above is a deadly split. The answer says it splits the verb (wishing) and direct object (that we could go...). I agree with this answer, but could not explain it to my son, who did not get it right. How embarrassing! I suppose I need to take the test and score myself before hand.

 

I tried unsuccessfully to diagram this sentence. It is clear to me that sat is the verb and there are 3 participial phrases starting with: looking, laughing, wishing (would that be called a compound something?). It is clear to me that looking, laughing, and wishing are all verbals. It is clear to me that "that we could go back to those good old days for a while" is an adjective clause acting as a DO.

 

I am wondering what function "at" has in the first 2 participial phrases. I reread my section on prepositions. Is it a preposition? It must be a preposition. The mouse goes AT the box? Not something I'd say. Does it show a relationship between a noun and another word in the sentence? Not really. Maybe it's not a preposition. Is it part of the verbal: looking at, laughing at? Maybe. Not sure. I remember something like that from the Latin tutor, maybe. Confused. Give up. Let go.

 

I reread my section on participial phrases wondering why I am clueless as to how/where to diagram them. I relearn that participial phrases act like adjectives. What could these phrases possibly be modifying? The subject we? OMG! Have I got it?

 

I learned that the verb/DO deadly split is applicable to a verbal/DO. I think.

 

I think about posting this question on TWTM forums and LOL at the thought of the variety of the responses that I would get. I decide against it. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

 

If I figured this out, I just did it as I typed it up. Have I figured it out? Obviously, not completely.

 

By posting my thoughts publicly, I am exposing myself as either a raving OCD lunatic or an extremely dedicated homeschool mom. I toss a coin...

 

Thanks,

Sue

Sue,

 

You're on the right track.

 

a. AT is a preposition. Think of the mouse attacking the box.

 

b. "that we ... a while" is a NOUN clause that acts as the DO for wishing.

 

c. yes, the Verb/DO split can just as easily be verbal/DO split. Remember, a verbal can do anything a verb can do, it just acts as another part of speech (noun, adj, etc.)

 

d. This is a compound participial phrase modifying the subject "we". It is not right next to the word it modifies, but it's not 'dangling' since it doesn't seem to modify another noun.

 

Good job, Sue! Your ramblings are really very good analytical thinking. Sometimes tough sentences need us to narrow choices down by eliminating the obvious "nots." Does that make sense?

 

Nice!

 

Erin

This is lesson 21 in the book. Roughly, 21 weeks worth of lessons. Just over a half of a year if school is 36 weeks long. Granted, my son didn't get this right, but it will be a great sentence to dissect and discuss. This is also an example of why you can't learn about all the comma rules until you know what phrases and clauses are.

 

I just wanted to share my testimony. It's also an example of the helpful support that AG offers through the yahoo group. I don't get anything for the great review.

 

:auto:

[lauracolumbus]

Thanks for posting this. I've read your past reviews on AG as I've been contemplating buying it. I think knowing about the Yahoo group clinches it for me.

 

Laura

[ekarl2]

:blushing: I'm blushing! Thanks, Sue!

[siloam]

We are in Unit 7, and I can't wait till I get it!! It is so nice to finally have grammar not be a foreign language to me. Well most of it. I still have a ways to go yet, but at least I have the basics now. :D

 

Heather (Another huge AG/JAG fan!)

[branycbur]

I really appreciate this post! I feel like I keep looking and reading and I just can't decide on a curriculum for my 4th grade daughter. I have it narrowed down to Shurley, Voyages, and Analytical. We've used Rod & Staff in the past and it's so redundant that she gets bored. I just want something straight forward. She is an incredible writer so the writing component need not be there. We have been using Spelling Workout and Wordly Wise, too. The only thing I worry with Jr. Analytical is you only do 11 weeks and then you are done...until 6th grade. That seems like such a gap for me (as a control freak) and I worry she will forget everything.

 

Can I ask which grade you started using Analytical Grammar?

 

And thanks again!

Edited August 19, 2009 by branycbur

[Sunshine State Sue]

Can I ask what grade you started using Analytical Grammar in?

 

We are using AG as intended for 6th-7th-8th. Dh used LLATL 2nd-3rd-4th and I used Shurley 5 with ds. The redundancy of Shurley 6 sent me searching for something else.

 

I can understand your concern about just doing 11 weeks in 4th grade and nothing in 5th grade because I am a control freak as well. Knowing what I know now, I think if I had it to do all over again, I think I could relax more. Yes, ds forgets a bit, but it also comes back quickly.

[Pensguys]

I LOVE AG too!!!! I can't believe how much my ds (12) retains! We just started Season 2 this week (we took last week to do the review pages in the Reinforcement book). He hasn't forgotten a THING! Granted, he still makes a FEW (and I mean FEW) careless errors, but he is even understanding Participial Phrases!!!!

 

I'm a grammar lover (always have been since high school) so this program is right up my alley and I'm so glad ds is understanding and retaining.

[siloam]

I would recommend Junior Analytical Grammar for 4th grade. My oldest did very well with it, and then started AG at half pace this at the end of 5th grade. She started it early only because Classical Writing expects her to know the 2nd season of AG for 6th grade. There was about an 8 month gap between finishing one and starting the other, so I just had her diagram a couple sentences once a week for practice.

 

Heather

 

[branycbur]

Thank you all so much! This is really very helpful. I think we are going to go with Analytical Grammar and I didn't even know about it until reading this post! I am going to try to relax and just know that she will learn.

Really, thanks again!

Edited August 19, 2009 by branycbur

[Lori in MS]

I've found that the Review and Reinforcement book in between seasons really does keep them from forgetting what they have learned. The High School reinforcement books look great too!

[GailV]

It's also an example of the helpful support that AG offers through the yahoo group.

 

 

I'm relieved to hear that a yahoo group exists for this. Dd is starting season 3, and has, at this point, gone far beyond my paltry knowledge of grammar.

 

By the way, she really enjoys Analytical Grammar, and considers this one of the "fun" subjects.

[ekarl2]

I've found that the Review and Reinforcement book in between seasons really does keep them from forgetting what they have learned. The High School reinforcement books look great too!

 

Lori,

 

Thank you for bringing this up. The R&R books is MANDATORY for those who break AG up. Nothing pains me more than to hear people say their child had a problem going into seasons 2 or 3 and finding out the took a 6 months break with no reinforcement!

[emmsmama]

Can the R&R book be used for those who have finished JAG in Gr. 5 but want to have review until they start AG in Gr. 6?

[Corraleno]

Can the R&R book be used for those who have finished JAG in Gr. 5 but want to have review until they start AG in Gr. 6?

 

:bigear:

I'd like to know the answer to this as well!

Jackie

[LibraryLover]

I need AG!

[ekarl2]

Can the R&R book be used for those who have finished JAG in Gr. 5 but want to have review until they start AG in Gr. 6?

 

Not really. You would only be able to use the first section and the reading level might be a little tough.

 

Instead I recommend doing informal grammar reinforcement: Mad Libs, Daily grams, Editor-in-chief. They'll forget some of JAG, but they'll go through the same concepts again in the first season of AG in 6th grade, but at a higher reading level with more complexity.

 

Not this winter, but next, we'll be writing a JAG mechanics course that you can do in between. It will cover basic versions of the punctuation and usage that we cover in AG. I know that doesn't help you now, but just so you know, it's in the works.

 

This winter mom is writing The Eternal Argument: A framework for teaching High School Literature, a book that gives literature teachers (homeschool and classroom) a way of studying high school literature through a lens that shows how the classic works fits into the ongoing argument between humanists and deists. That's why JAG Mechanics is put off until next winter.

[branycbur]

Lori,

 

Thank you for bringing this up. The R&R books is MANDATORY for those who break AG up. Nothing pains me more than to hear people say their child had a problem going into seasons 2 or 3 and finding out the took a 6 months break with no reinforcement!

 

 

Good to know! Does the Review and Reinforcement books come with the Junior curriculum? I see that you can buy the High School Reinforcements, but do I need to do that for Junior?

 

Thanks!

Edited August 20, 2009 by branycbur

[ekarl2]

Good to know! Does the Review and Reinforcement books come with the Junior curriculum? I see that you can buy the High School Reinforcements, but do I need to do that for Junior?

 

Thanks!

 

If you start the whole AG continuum early enough, here's how it goes:

 

Jr. AG in 4th or 5th grade

AG over three seasons in 6th, 7th, and 8th grade.

-- between those seasons you use the Reinforcement and Review book

High School Reinforcements once every other week for 9th through 12th grade. Those the are the Shakespeare's Plays and American, British, and World Authors books.

 

Year after next we're writing a Jr. AG mechanics books to use between Jr. AG and AG. In the meantime, if you do Jr. AG in 4th grade and want something for 5th, you can use any number of informal reinforcement like:

Mad Libs (fantastic grammar reinforcement and fun!)

Editor-in-chief, Daily Grams, etc.

 

Does that help?

[branycbur]

So we have just started using Junior AG this year, my daughter is in 4th grade, and it's the best switch we've ever made! It is the first time I've heard her say, "Yay! Grammar time!" She is doing really well and I think she is going to love moving to AG when she is older. Thanks for all who recommended this! We are so very happy!