Baffled by Michael Clay Thompson LA

[Guest]

Okay, maybe I am just slow but I don't understand how this program is supposed to work. I just read the excerpts from Grammar/Sentence Island and don't see how it works. The child reads the stories and just 'picks up' the concepts? Where is the application part? In the Practice books?

 

Someone help me out here, please. My son is gifted. Maybe it makes sense to him. Also, do you need both the student and TMs?

[Spy Car]

:lurk5:

[JudyJudyJudy]

I looked at the program and had the same questions.

[Shawna in Texas]

Have you seen the Elementary and Secondary Curriculum Guide PDF's on his page at RFWP? They were helpful. We are on the Town series. I wanted to start this level because of the vocab and poetry. The main part of the grammar book is a story, but I found plenty of application for our needs with the 4 point analysis. In the TM, there is a pre and post test. DD thought the story approach was dorky until we hit the verbals and at this point she's enjoying the story in Paragraph Town.

 

The way I've scheduled it: It took a month to do Grammar Town, but that was because most of it was review. Once we completed the 8 parts of speech portion, we began the vocab book. I actually want to finish before I review this as we are on chapter 5, but so far I don't see how anything could compare with how brilliant this is. I don't know if Building Language is set up like Caesar's English, though. Once we finished GT, we began Practice Town, Paragraph Town, and the poetry. We're only two week into each of these. Paragraph Town from what I can tell, is rehashing GT, but introducing paragraphs by their very definition. The story is delightful. It's an off shoot of Moby Dick (which I disliked in school, but plan to reread). I think the poetry may be harder to apply unless you're ambitious, but I read through it when I first got it and wondered what the heck I was going to do with it. But, after I started it with DD and began reading it aloud, I realized I had missed the point. It describes letter sounds in ways I hadn't thought of before. When I finish it, I'll review more. Paragraph Town in just 100 sentences that you apply the 4 level analysis. We do one a day. The books all work fluidly together, reinforcing grammar and vocabulary.

 

At the elementary level you only need the TM's. I think once you hit the secondary, you need both student books and the TM's. For Practice Books, I think you need both Student and TM.

 

Hope this is coherent, the benadryl is kicking in.:tongue_smilie:

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I am using MCTLA materials this fall with my DS (7th grade). As such my answer is specific to that set of materials. I did not homeschool when DS was younger or I would have used MCTLA.

 

I find the TMs are very helpful in understanding the program. The TM for Advanced Academic Writing contains much more info. than the SB (and includes a CD). The tests for Word within the Word are in the TM. The TMs for Magic Lens and 4practice contain all of the answers. I completed my scope and sequence this weekend and referred to both the TMs and SBs numerous times.

 

The RFWP website has wonderful links. Here is the link to the elementary tier: http://www.rfwp.com/samples/LA-ELEM.pdf

 

There is a yahoo group available as well. MCT answers some of the questions himself and is available if need be.

Edited June 29, 2009 by The Dragon Academy

[radiobrain]

Shawna did a very good job explaining, but I add my bit as I did the Island level and am in the middle of Town.

 

First of all, so you (and anyone else reading this thread is not confused) in the first series (Island, Town, Voyage & their poetry and vocab counterparts) you only need the TM with the exception of practice books. The student should have their own copy of the student practice book. In the higher level books (magic lens, WWW) you would need the student books and the HOMESCHOOL TM, not the regular TM. I hear they are different and the HS one is cheaper.

 

The point of the books, is to introduce grammar, poetry, vocab etc. in a very different fashion than they typically are. I enjoy reading the books aloud, we have good discussions about the content. The intro book (like grammar island, grammar town) is not meant to last very long. It lays the foundation for what the other books solidify.

 

Now, part of the reason this series is so good for gifted kids is that it is written in a way that assumes you might actually have a brain, and that you don't need to have things jammed into your head a thousand times. It also engages actual thinking, not memorization. It doesn't get bogged down with extras either. It presents the most basic information in an elegant and engaging fashion, that your kids are then able to hang more complicated language onto. TaG kids think in a different way than the average, and most curriculum is not written in a way that can engage their very intense and active brains. It isn't that these books are "advanced" or anything, it is that they are written *specifically* to appeal to the differently wired TAG brain. That is why the Island series is graded as gifted 3rd, regular 4th. I would say that ANY child will get a LOT out of these books (as they are awesome), but many TaG kids will be VERY happy with them, especially kids with a strong visual sense.

 

 

My kids really also enjoy the stories. This is actually the one curriculum choice that I will never leave AND gush about to other people. Even people who are not HSers. MCT obviously loves the English language and his joy really shines through. It helps also, if you or your kids are visual learners, as they are VERY visual books. The poetry books are actually the most visual in terms of helping express a point, and I wish that I had those books when I was younger.

 

I personally thought that Building Langauge was the weakest of all the books so far. But that is mostly for personal reasons that probably aren't relevant to anyone else. :) I think that Caesar's English is the most brilliant bit of curriculum I have come across, with the Island, Town books a close second.

 

I suggest that you join the MCTLA yahoo group and browse the archived messages and ask questions there, as not only are there many people more experienced with MCT materials than me, but Michael Clay Thompson and Dr. Tom Kemnitz regularly answer questions themselves.

 

I know that this curriculum will not be as great for everyone as it is for me, but I personally can't say enough about it.

 

As far as your actual "application" of concepts, look at the back of the TMs for suggested activites, the 4 level sentence analysis in the practice books. I also make up my own stuff. Caesar's English has it's own built in work too, and I use the vocab and sentences from it as copywork.

 

good luck!

 

Korin

[HSDCY]

Both Shawna and radiobrain explained the program very well, I coundn't agree more. I just want to add that this program has turned the task of learning grammar in to joy.

[Julie in MN]

The child reads the stories and just 'picks up' the concepts? Where is the application part? In the Practice books?

 

You've gotten some answers from actual users & it sounds like it is working for them, but I'm still with you on the question of what to those the lesson looks like?

 

So for those who have answered, is this what a day looks like:

- Sit on the couch next to your child

- Open say the poetry book

- Read it for a while as your child looks on

- Put the book down

- Open say the vocabulary book

- Read it for a while as your child looks on

 

Even if you both enjoy the page, at the end of the day has your child retained a lot? Has the child worked with the skill at all through some sort of discussion or recitation or any method?

 

The practice book is optional, isn't it? If it's essential, then what about a child who's at different levels in poetry vs. vocab vs. writing etc.? Do you need to get all the levels of practice books? I am thinking my son might benefit from the way MCT presents writing essays, learning vocabulary, and listening to poetry, but the books I'm looking at are at all different levels and I only have a year (8th grade) to enrich these areas before high school.

 

And what is in those practice books, by the way?

 

I have watched the conversations on the Yahoo group, but haven't seen the daily methods plainly described, especially for a non-classroom setting.

 

Julie

[Spy Car]

Thanks to all those who responded.

 

We are still years away from starting with the MCT materials, but reading about these real-world experience gets me excited for the future.

 

Bill

[swimmermom3]

 

First of all, so you (and anyone else reading this thread is not confused) in the first series (Island, Town, Voyage & their poetry and vocab counterparts) you only need the TM with the exception of practice books. The student should have their own copy of the student practice book. In the higher level books (magic lens, WWW) you would need the student books and the HOMESCHOOL TM, not the regular TM. I hear they are different and the HS one is cheaper.

 

Radiobrain,

 

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the Basic Homeschool Package works fine. You use TMs only, except for the student practice book. Could you give me an example of how you do that please?

 

I have an Easy Grammar TM. On the left page of the open book is the teacher's corrections, and on the right side is the student's page which the teacher would need to copy. I buy the Student Workbook because I don't want to have to copy 300 pages.

 

Does it work the same way with MCT?

 

Also, the link provided with the samples and the schedule was insightful. I spent some time on the phone with RFWP (Dr. Kemnitz?). I would recommend if you have questions, to call.

[Matryoshka]

 

I have an Easy Grammar TM. On the left page of the open book is the teacher's corrections, and on the right side is the student's page which the teacher would need to copy. I buy the Student Workbook because I don't want to have to copy 300 pages.

 

Does it work the same way with MCT?

 

No, very different. We used EG this past year with just the TM (I copied the student pages out as needed). I like EG very much and hope to finish it up before starting MCT.

 

But MCT is entirely different. In EG I teach the lesson, then the kids do worksheets. The EG TM tells me, the teacher, what to say. It is not aimed at the kids at all, except for the worksheets which are for the teacher's convenience.

 

With MCT, the TM is almost identical to the student book. There are no worksheets at all (the only consumable in MCT is the Practice Book). The only difference is that in the margins are little gray bubbles with discussion questions about various points in the text, which suggest things for the teacher to discuss with the student as they read the book together.

 

The other difference is that in the back of the book, there are additional assignments and pointers to the teacher. Depending on the book, these are different. In the vocab book, there are quizzes and such. In the writing book, there are writing assignments.

 

I have started the Island level vocab and poetry books with my dd8. At the end of each chapter introducing a root in the vocab book, the child has to write a poem using words with that root, and also write a metaphor using a word with that root. That's when I backed up to the poetry book - I realized my dd had not clue what a poem was. She'd listened to tons of them, we have regular poetry teas, she's memorized and recited lots. But what makes a poem a poem and not just a bunch of words?

 

The Music of the Hemispheres tells you this. At the end of each chapter in that book, the child has to apply what they've learned in the chapter by writing a poem - the latest assignment wants her to use end-rhyme, internal rhyme, eye-rhyme, alliteration, onomatopeia, and choose a foot and meter, possibly combining two. I have to admit she is balking at this assignment. I am reminding myself that this is suppposed to be for gifted 3rd graders - she is 8, and advanced, but not gifted, and I'd say her biggest area of advancement is math, not LA.

 

I'm planning on starting the Town level with my older two in the fall. Hopefully that will be easy for them, as they're already rising 6th graders, but they didn't have the earlier levels and I was worried the poetry book especially would be too much if I jumped them. I do love how the books all work together to reinforce each other, so I didn't want to mix levels.

 

In the Town level there are 20 lessons at the back of the Paragraph Town TM. Each lesson has discussion points, grammar exercises, and a writing assignment. Caesar's English has cumulative quizzes and word searches for each chapter (besides the very meaty reading, which also includes lots of analogies and application of the words in context). Building Poems does not have specific assignements for each chapter/lesson, but there's a part in the back of the TM where he suggests assigning "poetry recipes", for which a child would have to not just understand but be able to apply all the concepts learned. It includes a number of recipes to get you started.

 

The practice books contain 100 sentences for 4-level analysis, that's all that's in there. In order to do this analysis, the children have to have understood and be able to apply what they learned. How to do the analysis is explained in the grammar and writing books - I personally like it much better than diagramming as an analysis tool.

 

So, there is reading and discussing on the couch, but that's not all it is. I have to say I looked at the samples at the site for years and didn't get it. I only recently went back and looked at the upper levels, which made much more sense to me, and then worked my way back down.

 

I have to say while I was very happy with EG this year, I think my kids will get so much more out of MCT. Of course, EG is just grammar, while MCT is a comprehensive LA program.

[Julie in MN]

The Music of the Hemispheres tells you this. At the end of each chapter in that book, the child has to apply what they've learned in the chapter by writing a poem - the latest assignment wants her to use end-rhyme, internal rhyme, eye-rhyme, alliteration, onomatopeia, and choose a foot and meter, possibly combining two. I have to admit she is balking at this assignment. I am reminding myself that this is suppposed to be for gifted 3rd graders - she is 8, and advanced, but not gifted, and I'd say her biggest area of advancement is math, not LA.

 

...

 

In the Town level there are 20 lessons at the back of the Paragraph Town TM. Each lesson has discussion points, grammar exercises, and a writing assignment.

 

Caesar's English has cumulative quizzes and word searches for each chapter (besides the very meaty reading, which also includes lots of analogies and application of the words in context). Building Poems does not have specific assignements for each chapter/lesson, but there's a part in the back of the TM where he suggests assigning "poetry recipes", for which a child would have to not just understand but be able to apply all the concepts learned. It includes a number of recipes to get you started.

 

The practice books contain 100 sentences for 4-level analysis, that's all that's in there. In order to do this analysis, the children have to have understood and be able to apply what they learned. How to do the analysis is explained in the grammar and writing books - I personally like it much better than diagramming as an analysis tool.

 

So, there is reading and discussing on the couch, but that's not all it is. I have to say I looked at the samples at the site for years and didn't get it. I only recently went back and looked at the upper levels, which made much more sense to me, and then worked my way back down.

 

,,,MCT is a comprehensive LA program.

 

Wow, thank you SO much!

[swimmermom3]

Matroyshka, Thank you! That makes the use of the materials much clearer. The ds I am considering using this for is a rising 6th grader. When I spoke at length with RFWP this morning, he suggested I start at with Voyages after we talked about ds' strengths and weaknesses. Ds does well in LA but math and science are really his gifts.

 

I have had to completely upend my plans for this child. I have made so many changes already. I'm currently sitting on EG and AG, not to mention Vocab from Classical Roots.:D The appeal to me is that you don't do everything all at once, it's intertwined, and that poetics play an important role.

 

Julie, I'm curious as to what you are planning for your 8th grader if you don't mind sharing. You mnetioned that you were thinking of mixing levels.

[Guest]

First, THANK YOU ALL!!! It is making a bit more sense now. I did look at the overviews at the site but could not see the day-to-day plan.

 

Second, I would need to add a spelling program to this, correct? How much of a repeat/review is Town to Island? Mine is a math/science guy, as well.

 

swimmermom3, are you going to drop Light. Lit, then?

[Julie in MN]

Julie, I'm curious as to what you are planning for your 8th grader if you don't mind sharing. You mnetioned that you were thinking of mixing levels.

 

Lisa,

Just as a background, my son isn't labeled "gifted" by me or anyone else. When he was in public school for K-2, they kept sending him over to the gifted class because the teacher said he had nothing new to teach ds, but the gifted teacher kept sending him back because he failed all her tests & didn't like the activities (everything was paper-n-pencil, which he does not delight in, to say the least).

 

Anyways, I'm thinking of adding bits of MCT's materials to my other language study plans this year. I see things he can learn from my planned Lightning Literature & Writing Strands & Applications of Grammar, but there's still a piece missing for this particular child, I think. Last year, I added two co-op classes (high school writing & jr. hi speech), which went fine, but I want to use 8th to draw him in a bit more before high school takes over.

 

Okay, I digress. Back to the topic at hand. I am thinking of adding:

 

1. Poetry, I assume we should use book one? (that's in Level 1)

 

2. Vocab, I'm thinking Caesar's book one? (that's in Level 2)

 

3. Writing, I'm thinking the essay book would get him on board with improving his formal writing, because he is a youngest child who loves to be casual & funny, and the book seems like it might "talk him into" a love of communicating at a more formal level? (that's in Level 3)

[Guest]

My opinion of PS "gifted programs/testing" I will keep to myself. GRR!!!

[Matryoshka]

The mixing levels thing is a hard call. If I had picked individually, I think I would've chosen Magic Lens I (level 4), Caesar's English I (level 2), Music of the Hemispheres (level 1), and Essay Voyage (level 3). But I just loved how everything integrates and reinforces across a level - I think that's a real strength of the program - so I ended up compromising on level 2 (Town). I figure if they do Voyage in 7th they'll still be in the first secondary series in 8th, which leaves more than enough time to finish the whole series and add in other LA stuff in high school.

 

I'm planning to possibly add other writing in. There seems to be a big jump between Town and Voyage writing - I think my kids are somewhere in the middle. We did a really time-sucking writing class last year, and I'd prefer an easier upcoming year with writing - I didn't want to stretch them to tears. Yes, spelling would be separate. And if you look at the implementation plan at the website, you'll see MCT also suggests analyzing a book a month (this is covered in another book series he has). We'll be doing that, but I'm going to use Teaching the Classics as our framework.

 

Oh, and happy to post the details from the assignments - when I was looking at getting this, I kept asking that question, both here and on the MCTLA list, but no one would give me specifics! It was driving me batty! But I have to say the materials look really, really good - now I'll have to report back after using them for a year. :tongue_smilie:

[EKS]

You know what? This is *exactly* how I feel about it. I have all of the Island books as well as all of the Magic Lens 1 books. I've read through everything, including Classics in the Classroom. I have read everything on the Royal Fireworks Press website. I am good at grammar and was identified as gifted in school.

 

And now I'll just come right out and say it: I don't get how to implement the MCT LA materials.

 

I just don't. Many times when I get new curriculum there's a period where I have to mull it over for a bit but I have *always* been able to work it out, certainly within a week or so.

 

I've had the MCT materials for *months* and I *still* don't see how to implement them.

 

It's annoying because I think it is a really good program. And I have a son who is gifted in language arts and could really use something inspired. Maybe he just needs a different mother.

[swimmermom3]

swimmermom3, are you going to drop Light. Lit, then?

 

I don't know! We love Lightning Lit here and I had planned on using up what we have left of LL 7 and 8 for youngest ds' middle school years (6,7, & 8) with a few other things. This child's educational needs, interests, and swim schedule have me truly feeling like that flat squirrel on the highway of life when it comes to curriculum choices.

 

LL sparked both my ds' interest in poetry. It's now one of their favorite subjects and I think I only have one lesson in poetry left in LL 7 & 8. The emphasis on poetics just makes MTC even more appealing.

 

I looked at that yearly schedule on the RFWP site and just felt a huge sense of relief. With MTC, I don't have to teach all four components at one time and can still give ds advanced work. Currently we do grammar, vocab., spelling, writing, science, math, history, poetry, literature, Spanish, and some type of elective 4 days a week each over a 5 day week. We're both tired.:001_huh:

 

I need to streamline what we're doing. That is one of the reasons Analytical Grammar appeals to me. See, total "analysis paralysis".

[JudyJudyJudy]

Can a child jump into MCT LA at any grade level (I've already prepared for 5th grade, so I'm considering doing this in 6th), or will he miss something if he wasn't in the program at earlier levels?

[Julie in MN]

But I just loved how everything integrates and reinforces across a level - I think that's a real strength of the program - so I ended up compromising on level 2 (Town).

 

That's a very good point. Since I only have one year to spend on this, I guess I'll have to break down & ask on the Yahoo site. It just seems like I'd have to explain all the details of my individual situation in order to get the best answer, but maybe it would be worth the effort. I am a big fan of having things connect together for natural reinforecment, rather than reinforcing each thing separately.

 

Julie

[swimmermom3]

Julie,

 

Call RFWP and ask what they think. They asked me about my son's strengths and weaknesses and what I had been using before they made a recommendation. Then you don't have to tell the yahoo group anything and you get it straight from the people who developed the program.

[HSDCY]

Can a child jump into MCT LA at any grade level (I've already prepared for 5th grade, so I'm considering doing this in 6th), or will he miss something if he wasn't in the program at earlier levels?

 

If your child has fair exposure to LA, I'd say you can safely start at Town level with the exception of poetry. At Island level, everything is pretty basic, but the poetry book is the hardest (at least that's how we felt). If your child has good exposure to LA, is strong in this subject, then maybe Voyage level would be fine. You might want to call them next year and ask which level you should start with.

[Julie in MN]

Julie,

Call RFWP and ask what they think. They asked me about my son's strengths and weaknesses and what I had been using before they made a recommendation. Then you don't have to tell the yahoo group anything and you get it straight from the people who developed the program.

 

Probably the best idea. I'm not a big phone caller, but this may be one time I need to bite the bullet.

[JudyJudyJudy]

If your child has fair exposure to LA, I'd say you can safely start at Town level with the exception of poetry. At Island level, everything is pretty basic, but the poetry book is the hardest (at least that's how we felt). If your child has good exposure to LA, is strong in this subject, then maybe Voyage level would be fine. You might want to call them next year and ask which level you should start with.

Thanks!

[Colleen in SEVA]

I agree about calling them... such nice, helpful people! I have gone to a conference near me (for teachers, not homeschoolers) for the last 2 years specifically to speak with them and it has really helped.

 

I also agree with those who have a hard time wrapping their brain around the implementation! :D

 

IMO, the reason it isn't laid out in the nice 36 week schedule *we* are used to seeing is because it was designed to be used in a variety of school situations. For example -- Caesar's English is often used in junior high for Honors English 7 & 8, but it is also used in high school SAT-prep classes, 4/5 combo TaG classes, and even in a 2nd grade classroom at a school for super smart kids. Some schools use it school-wide in addition to what the state madates they teach, and some teachers use it as extra work for their gifted kids in regular classrooms. It truly can be used in any of these situations, but obviously each situation would require a different implementation!

 

For my situation, I prefer to work through the books one by one. This worked great for the Island level, but for the Town level I am changing it slightly. The Caesar's English book is ... "meaty" as a poster above mentioned. Wow. I was intimidated at first, but by breaking it up over the year, it is doable. I have spread this out over 30 weeks, then staggered the rest of the books into 36 weeks. It makes a nice, pretty, 180-day spreadsheet and that makes it so much less intimidating to me! :lol:

 

As for what a day looks like, it depends on which book we are currently working in. In Grammar Island, he read a few pages out loud and we would discuss examples. That's it -- but he totally got it. The Practice book is for AFTER finishing the Grammar book, and it contains 100 sentences to choose from. I used these as copywork, then had Blue do the 4 level analysis. In Sentence Island there are a few writing assignments in the back of the book, such as "Write a 10 sentence dialog between 2 characters in which 1 can only speak with action verbs and the other can only speak with linking verbs" (this was a favorite for Blue, though he didn't get it at first).

 

There is a pretty big jump from the Island level to the Town level. I would not have been able to use it with my class full of fifth graders when I was teaching! I know Blue will be very challenged this coming year. I keep having momentary freak outs, but reading the posts above reminded me of *WHY* we chose this program for this child, and *WHY* it doesn't make sense to switch him to a traditional fill-in-the-blank type program.

 

You will need to add a spelling program, as well as something to cover the rules for capitalization and punctuation as they are not covered in this program (MCT shared in a workshop that most gifted kids pick these up naturally through reading or a quick one-time explanation). We are using _The Perfect Punctuation Pop-Up Book_ for this.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Colleen in SEVA

[Matryoshka]

Call RFWP and ask what they think. They asked me about my son's strengths and weaknesses and what I had been using before they made a recommendation. Then you don't have to tell the yahoo group anything and you get it straight from the people who developed the program.

 

Now you have me wondering if I should've called before buying Town, and if I sold my dds short in what they could do - my dds are the same age as your son (11yo, rising 6th), but I'd say LA is their strength, rather than math. The poetics was most of what backed me up a level - I looked at one of the samples of the Voyage level and couldn't imagine jumping in at that level. :001_huh: Hope I'm not selling them short... :confused1:

[JudyJudyJudy]

One more question: There is no way that I can afford to buy the entire program for the upcoming year (I've already maxed out my budget). I already have grammar and writing covered for the upcoming year. Would it be bad if I bought a couple of the other books (like Caesar's English I and Building Poems) this year and then jumped into the full program next year?

Edited June 30, 2009 by JudyJudyJudy

[swimmermom3]

Now you have me wondering if I should've called before buying Town, and if I sold my dds short in what they could do - my dds are the same age as your son (11yo, rising 6th), but I'd say LA is their strength, rather than math. The poetics was most of what backed me up a level - I looked at one of the samples of the Voyage level and couldn't imagine jumping in at that level. :001_huh: Hope I'm not selling them short... :confused1:

 

Aaahh! Now you've got me wondering too.:001_huh: However, I did not provide a very glowing report of ds's language arts abilities to RFWP and the advisor still recommended Voyages. I didn't realize that there are two levels of of Caesar's English either, but I will go with II to keep it consistent with the other materials. The advisor said I had two paths: Voyages or Magic Lens I. He felt that Voyages was a sure path to success and that ds would have to work, not just skate. If ds goes through it quickly then he can do Magic Lens I. The advisor brought up the fact that I could use Magic Lens for reinforcement for my middle dc who will be a freshman in ps hs this year.

 

If MTC doesn't work or is too hard to implement (the chart makes it look so easy), I still have all my other language arts curricula to fall back on.:tongue_smilie:

[swimmermom3]

One more question: There is no way that I can afford to buy the entire program for the upcoming year (I've already maxed out my budget). I already have grammar and writing covered for the upcoming year. Would it be bad if I bought a couple of the other books (like Caesar's English I and Building Poems) this year and then jump into the full program next year?

 

I had thought about that too. I can't think that it would be a bad thing, but I know they do tie in with each other. It's the poetics part that really sells me on this program.

[swimmermom3]

Maybe we need a Michael Clay Thompson social group here? It looks like most of us are in the same boat.

[Spy Car]

I'm just glad you all are going to figure all this out so that by the time I'm ready I can benefit from your wisdom :D

 

Bill

[Julie in MN]

As for what a day looks like, it depends on which book we are currently working in. In Grammar Island, he read a few pages out loud and we would discuss examples. That's it -- but he totally got it. The Practice book is for AFTER finishing the Grammar book, and it contains 100 sentences to choose from. I used these as copywork, then had Blue do the 4 level analysis. In Sentence Island there are a few writing assignments in the back of the book, such as "Write a 10 sentence dialog between 2 characters in which 1 can only speak with action verbs and the other can only speak with linking verbs" (this was a favorite for Blue, though he didn't get it at first).

 

Thanks for adding your description of your day. You folks are really helping me think this thru.

 

You should try to add your grid to the MCT yahoo group files!

[JudyJudyJudy]

I had thought about that too. I can't think that it would be a bad thing, but I know they do tie in with each other. It's the poetics part that really sells me on this program.

That part is a big plus for me as well. I'm still not sure I understand how the grammar is done, though.

 

 

At the elementary level you only need the TM's.

Are the student pages in all the TMs? Are they written just as they are in the student books, or are they written small with other stuff written around them as is done in so many books used in public schools? (I taught school, and I didn't like using the TMs.)

[Shawna in Texas]

This was us exactly. I settled for the Town level because of Caesar's English. I wasn't as concerned with missing the first level poetry because we've gone through a couple of Kenneth Koch (?) books. It ended up being a pretty good fit. We finished the grammar earlier than I'd wanted, but it was mostly review. It was still the level, because of the verbals, that we needed to start on.

 

As for writing, we also do CW. I'm finding the anaysis of Paragraph Town fits right in with the analysis of Homer for now, so I'll incorporate it into that as much as I can. We don't really practice the diagramming of it, but we do look at it and I have DD do a 4 level analysis in its place. I've not looked at Essay, so this might just be easy for now.

 

 

The mixing levels thing is a hard call. If I had picked individually, I think I would've chosen Magic Lens I (level 4), Caesar's English I (level 2), Music of the Hemispheres (level 1), and Essay Voyage (level 3). But I just loved how everything integrates and reinforces across a level - I think that's a real strength of the program - so I ended up compromising on level 2 (Town). I figure if they do Voyage in 7th they'll still be in the first secondary series in 8th, which leaves more than enough time to finish the whole series and add in other LA stuff in high school.

 

I'm planning to possibly add other writing in. There seems to be a big jump between Town and Voyage writing - I think my kids are somewhere in the middle. We did a really time-sucking writing class last year, and I'd prefer an easier upcoming year with writing - I didn't want to stretch them to tears. Yes, spelling would be separate. And if you look at the implementation plan at the website, you'll see MCT also suggests analyzing a book a month (this is covered in another book series he has). We'll be doing that, but I'm going to use Teaching the Classics as our framework.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Shawna in Texas
wrong book name

[Shawna in Texas]

That part is a big plus for me as well. I'm still not sure I understand how the grammar is done, though.

 

 

 

Are the student pages in all the TMs? Are they written just as they are in the student books, or are they written small with other stuff written around them as is done in so many books used in public schools? (I taught school, and I didn't like using the TMs.)

 

On the Town level, Part 1 introduces you to the eight parts of speech. That's the first level of analysis. That takes up about half of the TM. All of the student pages are included and identical to the student books. There's just other helpful things added throughout as far as I can tell. We haven't needed to print anything so far. We sit next to each other and I put a paper underneath the sentence to cover the answers. It's a sentence with the parts of speech underneath that she has to identify. She did this orally until we got to the practice book. These little exercises are throughout the entire book and a pre and post text are included in the back.

 

Part 2 introduces the 2nd level of analysis with the parts of a sentence: subject, predicate, DO, IO, and SC.

 

Part 3 introduces the 3rd level of analysis with phrases: prepositional, appositive, and verbals. This is where we had to slow down.

 

Part 4 is clauses. This part covers independent and dependent clauses, coordinating and subordinating conjunctions, simple, compound, and complex sentences. It also talks about comma and semicolon use. It explains these things thoroughly and clearly.

 

So at this point you have sentences with 4 lines underneath that are filled in with the analysis, and you can copy the sentences down to be filled out, or in our case we did it orally. I believe the grammar book is only supposed to take a few months and it would be hard to determine how to schedule it until you really started it. Some of it is harder to grasp than others. We did the first two parts within a week, but then spent two weeks on part 3. Part 4 took about a week for us. I don't know how Voyage is, but after the samples of Magic Lens, I'm sure we'll fill up those months easily and then some.

[JudyJudyJudy]

On the Town level, Part 1 introduces you to the eight parts of speech. That's the first level of analysis. That takes up about half of the TM. All of the student pages are included and identical to the student books. There's just other helpful things added throughout as far as I can tell. We haven't needed to print anything so far. We sit next to each other and I put a paper underneath the sentence to cover the answers. It's a sentence with the parts of speech underneath that she has to identify. She did this orally until we got to the practice book. These little exercises are throughout the entire book and a pre and post text are included in the back.

 

Part 2 introduces the 2nd level of analysis with the parts of a sentence: subject, predicate, DO, IO, and SC.

 

Part 3 introduces the 3rd level of analysis with phrases: prepositional, appositive, and verbals. This is where we had to slow down.

 

Part 4 is clauses. This part covers independent and dependent clauses, coordinating and subordinating conjunctions, simple, compound, and complex sentences. It also talks about comma and semicolon use. It explains these things thoroughly and clearly.

 

So at this point you have sentences with 4 lines underneath that are filled in with the analysis, and you can copy the sentences down to be filled out, or in our case we did it orally. I believe the grammar book is only supposed to take a few months and it would be hard to determine how to schedule it until you really started it. Some of it is harder to grasp than others. We did the first two parts within a week, but then spent two weeks on part 3. Part 4 took about a week for us. I don't know how Voyage is, but after the samples of Magic Lens, I'm sure we'll fill up those months easily and then some.

Thanks so much! You explained exactly what I wanted to know. Parts 1 and 2 of the grammar book will definitely be review for ds, and about half of parts 3 and 4 will be, so we should be able to do the grammar book pretty quickly. Even though I know I shouldn't spend the money, I think I'll bite the bullet and buy the entire program (I guess I'll have to give up something else :p). With exception of the student practice book, I'll just buy the TMs.

[Shawna in Texas]

Thanks so much! You explained exactly what I wanted to know. Parts 1 and 2 of the grammar book will definitely be review for ds, and about half of parts 3 and 4 will be, so we should be able to do the grammar book pretty quickly. Even though I know I shouldn't spend the money, I think I'll bite the bullet and buy the entire program (I guess I'll have to give up something else :p). With exception of the student practice book, I'll just buy the TMs.

 

You have seen the HS packages, right? They have two. The one with all the TM's and the practice book is the one you'd want. The price savings is equal to the practice book I believe,

[Annabel Lee]

If you all don't mind me PBI, I've read this entire thread and MCT LA sounds intriguing. But before I take my curriculum blinders off ;) and venture off onto the MCT site, I have a couple questions:

My sons are going into 3rd and 1st grades, ages 8 and 6. They are smart, bright boys, but not "gifted" in LA. They pick things up quickly when taught and seem to retain them well - but I've never used something that didn't include some sort of memorization or repitition. Should I even bother looking at this now? Or is this for much older/more advanced students? Also, is it possible to use only the vocab from MCT? It sounds like the program integrates so nicely with its other components.

 

How would this differ from what I'm doing now for LA (in my sig)?

[radiobrain]

I wrote a really long response to a few different questions offline last night and finished it this morning... and now I don't feel I can post it! ARG!:tongue_smilie:

 

I think that reason that I (and many) are so oogly about MCT is that it is so different from the typical curriculum we all come across. There are many of us who (like me) struggle on a daily basis to "re-translate" some programs into a style that we can manage. MCT is one that I just immediately GET. I appreciate it all the more for that reason.

 

I am going to C & P what I wrote about scheduling/typical day/ TM .... This might add another level to understanding what others have said about the subject. :001_smile:

 

I typed this out from the Teacher sections in the back of Paragraph Town, the 4th/5th grade book, which you would do AFTER grammar town. I hope that it will lend some sort of clarity to "how" the whole thing works.

 

You would first read the text part of the book with/ to your kids... discussing it with them to gauge their understanding and just have a nice time with it . No pressure. Utilize the discussion bubbles on various pages, they are useful. Spend a few weeks on this, or a few days... it is up to you and your kids. Then you would go back through it using the story and what the story covers to do the lessons below. Part 1 is discussion again (with occasional writing ideas if you want to make them ones...) that you can supplement with the practice series. There is only ONE pratice book per level. Then you go to part two of the teacher section, going back through text as needed. It is my opinion that you never need to do ALL the work, as long as the kids understand the basic concepts well enough. You can skip them as you feel the need, but on the whole they are all so good, that you should try them... but don't feel pressured if it just isn't working right then, or if it is hard for your kid to grasp right away. They will eventually get it, and staying stuck on something just to finish it defeats the basic premise of the whole program, IMHO.

 

Teacher Section part 1: The Launch

 

"Part One of the Teacher Section extends through the first reading of the book, and provides the important foundation of sentence grammar and paragraph elements that the student will need fo rthe elaborate paragraph exercises of Part Two."

 

Lesson number and subject. Chapter and pages of Chapter used for the lesson. Chapter summary. Key Concept. Suggested approach. Supplemental Content (i.e. concunctions). Open-ended, Socratic Discussion Questions Suggested by the content. Review. Lesson one four level analysis (and explanation). Paragraph lab: various topic. (this can be used as an actual writing asignment, or it can be imagined as a writing assignment. It is more to get the student thinking about writing).

 

Teacher section Part 2: Extended Practice

 

"Part Two of the Teacher Section consolidates the knowledge of Part One and Provides extended opportunities to apply the knowledge, thereby strengthening comprehension and internalization".

 

Lesson number and subject (i.e. Expository paragraphs). Text review. Key concept. Suggested approach. Supplemental content. Open-ended Socratic Question. Lesson punctuation as a function of grammar. Four level analysis. Paragraph lab with assignment and model.

 

 

Each of these subjects have a few paragraphs or exersises for each. I wouldn't suggest doing them all in one "lesson", they seem to be grouped more as subject lessons... it might take a week or more to finish one lesson well.

 

Now, I am in the middle of Paragraph Town, but as we had a great time with Grammar/Sentence Island (and my kids are on the reluctant writing end of thing right now) I have not delved too far into this part of the program. I also know that I won't follow it exactly. I am a very relaxed HSer and I try not to get bogged down by an artificial timeline. My kids will finish it when they have understood it, sometimes it will be simple and quick... othertimes it will take much L O N G E R. So I am not a good person to ask about "what a lesson looks like " or some similar vein of questions.

 

Consider that all the components of the program are not scripted in the typical way, and they are not split up into managable daily chunks, but subject/ concept chunks, you must make those lesson length decisions yourself. If your kids are really loving it, keep going, if they are having trouble... take it slowly. The whole program is based on a different model than most, so it might seem weird if certain things aren't addressed at a time you think it should be... but trust me MCT will get to it.

 

 

 

Korin

[Granny_Weatherwax]

This will be my first year using MCTLA. My DS has completed EG 6 this year and we are going straight into Magic Lens and Word (actually the whole kit and kaboodle). It does not appear to be too difficult for DS (aside - he is gifted in language arts and has found many of the programs we looked into to be easy and boring). I have looked through the entire four book set and have developed my lesson plans. I am hoping the plan is as easy to implement as it was to set up.

 

I belong to the Yahoo group and have found it to be quite informative. Unfortunately most of the questions are for the lower levels so I feel a little lost. I have posted some basic LPs on the group site. Others have been posting their plans as well. There has been a recent LP addition for the lower levels of MCTLA for those families using Homeschool Tracker Plus.

 

I called RFWP this morning with a question regarding the materials; the gentleman on the phone was very helpful and kind. He answered my question quickly and apologized for the confusion. Evidently the school materials are slightly different than the homeschool books, however, the instructions in the HS TM weren't changed to reflect the difference. I was looking for review tests that I was never going to be able to find; they don't exist for HSers.

 

I have enjoyed reading the posts from other users. I think it's wonderful that the MCTLA program is becoming more popular. If only they would do a complete US History program...what a dream that would be.

Edited July 1, 2009 by The Dragon Academy

[swimmermom3]

Training5, thanks so much for bringing up MCT again. This time, thanks to posters like Shawna and Radiobrain I feel like I have a much clearer picture of how all the components link together and how our day could look. I'm looking forward to hearing more feedback as everyone gets started.

[Willow]

We are in the middle of our school year here and ds is in 7th grade, going into 8th in Jan 2010....just to put the record straight before we start! ;)

 

We have just brought Grammar and Practice Voyage, with a view to going into Magic lens 1...the whole caboodle... in January.

 

We sit on the sofa and read the grammar book. We talk, ds gives me long lectures about the types of boats in the pictures! We read as much as we want. We memorize anything we think we need to. We took a long rabbit trail (down to the bottom of the ocean) via the word 'bioluminescence'

 

We have only had the materials a couple of weeks however. We plan to start Practice Voyage as soon as we finish Grammar Voyage. I will simply split it up over the remainder of the year. Ds does not seem to need puntuation lessons, he seems to just get it.

 

In January I will start the Magic lens stuff....the whole set, but I have not yet brought it, so cannot comment on that level.

[kalanamak]

.

Edited March 2, 2010 by kalanamak
ACKK how did I fall into such an old post??

[Spy Car]

.

 

Too late, I saw it :D

 

Bill