I never learned cursive in school. I figure it will be easier for all of us if we stick to one method/style, and since I'm already going through the effort of figuring out the stuff in the McGuffey's Readers as we move through them, I'm trying to find materials for teaching and learning whatever style of cursive that is. Can anyone give me some ideas for where to start?

I would place them by the grade that they are doing most language arts... if that makes any sense? The kid I have placed by ability is LOVING KWT. The one I have placed by grade, but who is working above grade level finds KWT boring and slow moving. Also, the program may not be a good fit for certain children. I have another kid who has figured out how to mash keys or hold certain keys down in such a way as to finish the exercises without actually typing. I have to babysit him if I want him to actually do the lessons. There is a thing online where I can see the kids' progress, how many exercises they've completed, speed and accuracy, and how many days they've worked, but I'm not quite satisfied with it. I also dislike that completed exercises cannot be revisited. The program only moves forward.

^^ This is exactly what goes on in my head. I vote the book is wrong. It's teaching an effective algorithm, but it's explaining the algorithm like it's math... which it's just not, it's only some steps to follow to get the right answer, which, IMO, is not math.

I also agree with everyone else about not holding back books. I always kinda raise one eyebrow when I see discussions where people say their kids aren't allowed to read Harry Potter until they're 10 or 11 + years old. I don't understand why? I am very selective about what images/videos my boys can see/watch, but I give them (6yo and 7yo) free reign on books (though they don't have access to erotica or intense violence, for now). And my experience agrees with regentrude's and dmmetler's about the self-censoring and stopping when it's too much. I think kids naturally do that when reading. They know what they can handle. I read some incredibly adult-themed books as a child, for example Anne Rice's whole Witching Hour series (with suicides, murders, adultery, incest, medical malpractice, kidnapping, etc) at 10-11yo. Most of the very bad stuff went right over my head. I remember occasionally skimming over sections of text I considered "boring" or I felt uncomfortable reading, but I still got the gist of the story, which I loved. I re-read the books in my 20s and went, "Whoa, how did I not notice this stuff last time? I can't believe my mom let me read this!" But actually, I'm glad that she did, and I would have resented her if she's tried to stop me.

I had a mini-freak-out when we got to multi-digit subtraction in RS the first time, lol. I even posted about it (different board). After getting some reassurances, I went ahead and taught just as RS suggested, and it worked out very well. We were using 1st edition, which has a slightly different method than 2nd edition. They both go left to right, but 1st edition has you underline the number being traded from and no other marks and you do all the trading (underlining) before beginning subtracting, 2nd edition has little 1's written next to the number you trade to and no other marks and you think about saving a number for trading at each place value. I prefer the way we learned in 1st edition. 1st edition had a whole lesson on how you COULD do multi-digit addition from either direction, it's just easier from right to left because if you go left to right you have to erase after you trade. So when we did multi-digit subtraction, DS#1 made the observation that you can subtract in either direction as long as you do all your trades first. We did a few problems both directions and he declared that he liked doing it left to right better, so that's what he does! But DS#2 seems to prefer right to left (he's still doing the trading first and underlining).

I'm planning (another) overhaul on our weekly schedule. Moving pre-Ker temporarily into Teach Your Child to Read in 100 EZ Lessons, but when the slow-down hits around lesson 75-85 I'll probably switch him back to OPGTR again. Adding spelling for my 2nd grader. Maybe for my Ker as well. Right now we have Spelling Power -- I have NO IDEA what that's going to be like. Still waffling about regarding cursive. My 2nd grader really wants to start, but I didn't learn cursive in school and I'm just not looking forward to teaching it. We just finished FLL1 and will move on to FLL2. I picked up the kindle version of the McGuffy's Readers and I'm excited to have the kids do some stuff out of them. I'm still not happy with Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding... but I haven't found anything I like better yet either. All else is going well.

DH is a chemical engineer, so I assume that counts as white collar? But he spends a huge amount of time in the field, wearing an overpack suit or a flame retardant suit, depending on if he's at a radioactive site or a regular industrial plant. He, by the way, is a 1st generation college graduate and grew up in extreme poverty. His family was homeless for a portion of his childhood, and the for the rest they relied on government assistance for everything. And yes, there was domestic violence and substance abuse, lots of it. DH got a full ride scholarship and didn't even have to pay for his groceries in college. I also came from a poorer family (also domestic violence, no substance abuse). My step father was sent to prison when I was 8yo and my mom raised me and my oldest younger brother alone on a very low income working extremely long hours. Actually, I mostly raised my younger brother because my mom didn't usually get home from work until 8-9pm. We grew up without a family car, TV, or phone. My brother went to trade school, I worked my way through college (plus some loans) and got a B.A. in geological engineering. DH and I were both public schooled, but we've decided to HS our boys. We are solidly middle-class now, but I'm sure both our present and past socioeconomic statuses influence how we HS, what materials we use, and what our goals are. DH is very education oriented and expects all of our boys to go to college. I think he'd throw a fit if any of them tried to opt out!

Thanks everyone! I combined a lot of your suggestions and we were able to get it all worked out. DS#1 and I had a nice talk yesterday. He said he didn't want to use the distributive property because it was faster to get the right answer in his head or with the other method written out. I told him I didn't CARE what the answer was, that I was not trying to teach him to get ANSWERS but to SOLVE PROBLEMS and that the point of the exercise was to learn a different way of doing things that would be useful for later, harder problems (and then demonstrated one such problem). We talked about how Daddy is out in the real world working with math every day and that people's lives depend on him knowing a variety of ways to solve problems (he's a chemical engineer and has worked in weapons disarmament, radioactive cleanup, and recently plant start-ups in the private sector). So yes, this worksheet is boring and seems pointless, but it's not. It's training for the important work he may do as an adult. Then DS#1 negotiated that he would do one problem the way they asked and if he got it correct I wouldn't make him do any more like it until the problems were harder and he couldn't use the other method or do it in his head. I agreed, of course!

I'm not sure it's a depth problem. The question that set him off today was 67x13, which, if I had just asked him out loud, "What's 67x13?" he would have quickly done in his head. The worksheet asks the child do use the distributive property, which is EXACTLY what he does in his head, but written down in an organized way. He wrote the problem out with the traditional multiplication algorithm instead. I asked him to follow the method shown in the example and write out the solution using the distributive property. Then he started crying and wrote on the top of the page "worst worksheet ever" and told me he didn't like this math and wouldn't do it. This chapter has had a little more practice than BA usually has, and he's not the kind to need much practice to reach mastery (in math anyway). The problems definitely get more interesting in a few more pages.... I'm tempted to let him pass over this section to make things fun again, but I feel being able to write out problems using the distributive property is a foundational skill that really ought not to be skipped. I know he's going to need to be able to do this later! I love this idea! I'm going to try this. Thank you.

My kids are not HG or PG, they're just a little ahead, so I hope it's okay if I ask here. I anticipated being told I was pushing too difficult of work if I asked on the regular board, and I thought the perspective you guys are coming from might be more appropriate for our situation. Anyways. DS#1 is 7 1/2 yo in 2nd grade. He's in the 2nd chapter of BA 4A and suddenly is throwing a fit that he doesn't want to do math! He's fairly mathy and did all of BA 3C, 3D and the first chapter of 4A quickly and without issue over the course of 9-10ish weeks. Now this second chapter of 4A is multi-digit multiplication, which he already learned and is proficient at even with very large numbers. Buuuut, he doesn't want to do it any other way than the way he learned in RightStart. We had tears this morning when his worksheet wanted him to use the distributive property to solve a simple 2-digit by 2-digit problem (problems 42 and 43). It's not an issue of difficulty, but just that he doesn't LIKE to do it this way. I've worked pretty hard to keep lessons short and fun up to this point. But I'm not sure at what point you say, "This is the work that must be done. I'm sorry you don't like it. You still need to do it." I don't want to crush his love of learning, but school can't ALL be fun forever!

We started both FLL and WWE this year. FLL and WWE do seem to compliment each other well, and I think it would have been perfectly fine to start them together, but since they're each completely independent of the other we haven't run into any problems -- even though we started FLL a couple of months ahead of WWE, we're moving through WWE and FLL at very different paces, and my 2nd grader is working in different levels for each. There are placement tests of sorts in the WWE book. It's a good place to start so you don't have to guess what level to teach a kid. I have my Ker doing WWE1 and my 2nd grader doing WWE2 now. I work with each separately, but the lessons are nice and short, so it doesn't take much extra time to do it that way. I combined them for FLL, so they're both doing level 1 and that's working well for us. We don't do any of the writing or optional exercises in FLL since I think that's all covered well enough in WWE. A FFL1 lesson usually takes us 5-10 minutes. And they LOVE chanting the word lists and poems together. Sometimes one will start to answer and stop partway through and the other will pick up where the first left off to finish the answer. It's pretty entertaining for all of us.

I just requested it from the library!

This is all extremely interesting! I'm over here self-analyzing, lol. geodob, I find your comments fascinating! I used to only think in pictures and had a difficult time learning to read. I was able to write 6yo, but couldn't read -- even my own writing -- until 9yo. I had to learn to think in words, and it was very hard! I still often have problems pulling out words for everyday objects. I have the picture in my mind but I can't put a sound to it and it can be very frustrating. I'm pretty sure I learned to read by memorizing entire words (I remember once a teacher was writing on the board what she spoke as she said it and said had just said "your" and started to write but stopped when only "you" was written because she was interrupted by a question. I recognized the word and was confused why she wrote "you" but said "your." Then she continued by adding an "r" and the word magically became "your" and I went, whoa!!! You can turn "you" into "your" by putting an R at the end!?!) But I can now read the jumbled words mentioned above so that can't be how I read now... I can't read things written in new fonts though. Every time I encounter a word written in a different type font or a new person's handwriting that is much different from previous experiences, I have to say each letter out loud for the word, and then I know what word it is. (I say each letter for each word as I write or type it too, but I was pretty sure that's what everybody does. DH says that he doesn't, and I'm not sure which of us is the weird one.) My youngest son (2y 3m old) has a significant receptive speech delay (about a 50% delay) and is actually able to say more than he understands, so I find myself trying to find correlations between us... If I'm being honest, I'm really just trying to come up with an explanation for his delays that does not involve ASD or cognitive impairment. I'm anticipating a long road for teaching him to read when the time comes.

I did 1st edition RS A-E with my oldest before starting him on BA. With DS#2 we switched to 2nd edition RS. He got through A and B and about 1/2 way through C, but I really didn't like 2nd ed. C. There was too much review, not enough new stuff, and I just liked the way they taught subtraction and single digit multiplication in 1st edition better. (I think 2nd ed does a much better job with multi digit multiplication in D though). So we switched back to 1st ed C. At the same time, I started him in BA3. He's moving much more slowly through BA than he might if I were to wait another 6 months, but it's just a fun extra for now. When he wraps up 1st ed C he can move to BA full time and will already be fluent in his multiplication facts from RS and familiar with the problem solving and frustration of BA. I think it's the best of both worlds.

I tried with both Firefox and Chrome on my PC and had the same trouble. However, after I logged in, the problem went away. I logged out again out of curiosity, and the cart-emptying problem returned. But as long as I was logged in to the Peace Hill Press website it kept the items in my cart.

In case anyone else runs into the same problem, I was able to make the things in my cart "stick" by logging in first. (yay!) Problem came back when I logged out and tried again.

Also agreed. When I switched my DS#1 over to BA, he had already finished RightStart E (4th-ish) and "knew" all the topics in BA3 except for having only a brief exposure to variables. So I picked up the 3C and 3D to cover that section and give him some "review" to ease him into BA. I could LOL thinking about it now -- review! Ha! The general concepts may be familiar, but BA takes it waaaaay farther, applies the concepts in interesting and unusual ways, and turns drills into puzzles so that even if you can quickly compute the answers, you still may spend a while figuring out the solution.

Sure thing!

My cart keeps emptying on it's own. I can't get more than one item in the cart at a time and I'm getting frustrated. Wondering if this is a problem with the website or if it's my browser/computer/whatever (cookies?? Something else? I feel so computer illiterate... illcomputerit? lol) I posted this on the general ed board, but Ethel Mertz suggested I repost here.

My cart keeps emptying on it's own. I can't get more than one item in the cart at a time and I'm getting frustrated. Wondering if this is a problem with the website or if it's my browser/computer/whatever.

I haven't used either of those, but I do have my 2nd grader and my Ker doing the same grammar together (they're also combined for history and science!). We're doing First Language Lessons 1, and I really like it. It is totally parent driven, but that hasn't been a problem because it only takes about 5-10 minutes total each day. Of course, that may change as we move into FLL2 or beyond, so I may need to reassess later. But I think for the basics of early grammar this will be fine.

I picked up the illustrated version of the first book at Costco and it's pretty dang awesome. I went back and forth on whether to wait until an older age, but ultimately decided that it would be fine to start now with my 6 and 7yo. I feel like since it's a read-aloud and we're all sitting together, they have the opportunity to discuss with me any topics they might find distressing. From personal experience, I figure that a lot of the "bad" stuff will go right over their heads. If/when they re-read them in middle or high school they will grasp a lot more of the themes. I read Anne Rice's Witching Hour and Interview with the Vampire at 10yo (sooooooooo inappropriate!!) but really just didn't grasp a lot of the very "bad" stuff. I re-read them in my 20s and realized that though I got the general idea the first time, there was a lot of adult content that I didn't even really notice at 10yo.

Depends on how well I think he's recovered from the meltdown. If he seems totally fine again, I would ask him to write 26, or I might ask him to enter the number on his abacus. If he seems on edge and like he might freak out if I were to demand more, I would write or enter the number myself and then ask what comes before. I do not intentionally try to push him by totally jumping out of his comfort zone. Sometimes I forget, like what happened with the number before 26 yesterday, because my DS#1 is the opposite (very auditory with trouble assimilating visual input) and I've just been teaching that way longer. However, I am trying to build up his auditory skills gently by, for example, asking him to close his eyes and picture what he wrote or entered on his abacus. We're working on his auditory memory through language arts (WWE and FLL).

I've got two thoughts on her fluctuating performance. First, maybe it has to do with her SPD. My SPD kid has well regulated days and disorganized days. It took me YEARS to figure it out, but for him it seriously has a lot to do with the weather. When I brought it up with his ABA she said that I really wasn't crazy and that sometimes these kids can be hypersensitive to pressure changes. So some days I just have to throw in the towel with lessons. They are not going to happen if he's in a highly disorganized state. It's one of the reasons we homeschool year round. We can do lessons just 3 or 4 days per week and not fall behind. My other thought is that it could possibly have to do with her predominant learning style and how you're presenting content/questions. Have you noticed what kind of learner she is? Are you consistently teaching to that strength or do you switch it up sometimes? My extremely visual learner is in RS-C. I love RS. But sometimes he has difficulty with the lessons because they are so heavily verbal. Here's a great example of what this can look like in my house: Me: Write and tell me the multiples of 3, backwards. Start with 30. DS#2 (reading them off as he writes them): 30, 27, 24, 21, 18, 15, 12, 9, 6, 3, 0, *pause* NEGATIVE 3, negative 6, negative 9 -- Me: Okay, okay, that's good. *turns hand held dry erase board with expression written on it toward him* How about 46+87? DS#2: 123... 133! Me: What number comes before 26? DS#2: What!? *throws self into heap on floor* I don't knooooooooow! It's too haaaaaard! I get a good chuckle out of this, but it demonstrates what a huge impact his learning style can have on his achievement. He was fine with much harder questions, as long as he could SEE what was going on. I asked him one incredibly simple question entirely verbally, and his performance disintegrated. Of course, none of the above may have anything to do with your DD. But perhaps there's something else, some other non-standard variable, effecting how she does. Edited for privacy

I agree with letting her work through it as fast as she likes. Perhaps she'll find it a bit more difficult as she moves forward in the curriculum. Or, perhaps not -- maybe your DD is just super mathy, and that's okay. It seems like it would be easy to move on when she's finished with BA. Maybe it's about time for pre-A? I haven't run across any problems (yet!) in BA 3 that I didn't know how to figure out. I often think the problems are quite clever though. My 7yo DS has never said that BA was easy (his first week involved a lot of crying about how hard it was, in fact), but so far it has taken him 6-8 thirty minute sessions per chapter (except the one on estimation, somehow that took 10). I don't think he will continue at this pace though. He'd already finished Right Start A through E before I moved him to BA, so the only thing new he's really learned is a basic understanding of variables and how to persist in solving genuine problems. I'm expecting him to find BA 4 much more challenging.