I'd still like to try. It will reflect poorly on the entire project, as she is not publishing it by herself. It is a part of a public event. It is frustrating that she can't see how bad it is. I've given feedback on similarly weak writing before. I was told by quite a number of people that it hurt, but was so worth it at the end. But this time we don't even have enough time for her to start considering the idea that she needs to revise. I hope that if I don't shut her down right away, I still have hope. She is an accomplished visual artist. She must know how much work goes into one painting, for example. Why does she think that her first draft of her first story is "perfect?" This doesn't even make sense!

What kind of feedback from your istructor / beta reader made you think that you needed revisions? As a beta reader I'm trying to point out every possible positive thing, but the work that I'm reading is very weak. Decent for a beginner, but nowhere near ready for publication. Every beginner mistake--it is there. Yet the person was already told by another beta reader (of a higher pulbished status than me ha-ha) that her work was great. This is also the weakest work in the entire group, and the person has the least self-doubt about it! The work will be made public after copy-editing, and even then, I believe the work will be embarrassing for the writer, if not now, then in the very near future. This is the weakest work in the entire group, and the person has the least self-doubt about it! She truly believes she wrote what she wanted to write and it doesn't need any revisions. Is there anything I can say / do to open her up a little bit? I intend to ask her to talk about her work, why it is imoportant to her, what is she trying to convey etc. I intent to ask open-ended questions about using particular literary devices etc. Is this hopeless, though? Any tips?

On how "girl" shorts are different from "boy" shorts: http://www.boredpanda.com/mom-creates-shorts-clothing-girls-will-be-sharon-choksi/ http://www.girlswillbehq.com/

I have no clue what this is about, but I absolutely LOVED it. Wow.

Well, I'm actually and actual "observer." I'm supposed to be there, but I'm not a workshop participant. Hard to explain. Not exactly an assistant...hm...I'm not sure what I am! But she is supposed to leave me alone.

Oh, no, not at church! More like a writing workshop. Those are good replies. I do get a bit flustered around people like her.

She sneaks up on me so unexpectedly that I'm always taken aback and really not ready to say anything coherent! lol

1. Workshop leader to me: I wish you were comfortable to join this particular group. Me: Thank you, I'm comfortable, but it is just not my thing. Workshop leader, next week: I wish you were comfortable...(Same group). Me, trying not to glare. I resent the idea that she assumes that if someone is not joining, they are uncomfortable. 2. Workshop leader to me: How are you? I was worried about you last night. I got home and I was thinking about you. I was worried. Me: Why? (eyes wide) Workshop leader: You were so quiet in class. Is everything okay? Me, trying not to glare: I'm usually quiet. (The problem is, I wasn't quiet, I was behaving as usual. So yes, I was a bit snarky. But I was taken aback with this "concern." It came out of nowhere!) She keeps making assumptions about how I feel, and I find it intrusive and inappropriate. Patronizing. Am I not replying with enough clarity? She is one of those people who is so "senstive" and "strives not to offend"...

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

:grouphug: For us it was gluten. I know, I know, everyone has their own "magic pill." But I was at the end of my rope, and eliminating gluten did seem like magic. Having a sibling (when she was 7) was a trigger for her as well. She did outgrow the tantrums. She never raged against me or destroyed things, but the tantrums were *intense.* And frequent. Lots of coping strategies modelled at home. We saw a psychotherapist for 3 sessions. And insane waste of money (and trust) and we didn't continue. I felt we could handle this as a family, thought at times I did feel like failure. I am not with the camp who jump at "get professional help" bandwagon when children have behavioral issues. Unless you find an exceptionally talented therapist, they can do more harm than good. I've always felt that as her mother I knew her best, understood her best, and could provide the best guidance and support. (Even if some days I was losing it, overall it was a very steady road to improvement, especially when I look at it in retrospect.) She is a wonderful, sensitive, mature, compassionate, empathetic teenager now. We found these books helpful: https://www.amazon.com/What-When-Your-Temper-Flares/dp/1433801345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496194838&sr=8-1&keywords=what+to+do+when+your+temper+flares The anger one and the worry one (as a lot of it was anxiety), especially. But all of them are great. Hang in there. It will get better.

Not at all. No. Why? Why is your DH over-reacting so majorly? What's bothering him?

Have been reading the Red Pill forums. I've lived such a sheltered life.

Yes, I did. ETA: The best thing, she didn't even want to watch it, seeing who it came from lol. That's my girl.

I really appreciate everyone's perpspectives. I don't even know why I engaged with this conversation for so long, I guess I was taken aback. DD and I got this in our emails today:

Though I'd love to see studies that don't support this, tbh. Just spent an hour arguing with a male family member in his late 40s, which, frankly, was draining. His argument was that when women wait to establish their carreers, and then start looking for a partner when they are 30-35 years old, they are all unhappy, because they are under so much pressure to have a baby and all the men in their age group are attracted to 20 somethings. This was all initially spoken to our 15yo DD, as "food for thought," in reply to her saying that she'd rather marry late because she wants to have a career. :ack2: But what bugged me was that I actually couldn't come up with good counter arguments. This just *feels* wrong to me. Feels horrible. Outdated. Irrelevant. Disgusting. But am I overreacting because I married young (though didn't have children until early 30s) and I wish I waited until I was in my 30s? For all I know I would've been one of those unhappy unmarried women with my biological clock ticking? This family member kept saying that this is just a lie that women tell ourselves, but in reality men are not interested in women in their thirties and fourties because they are out of reproductive age, and thus those women just can't be happy because they feel rushed into finding a partner. He tried to cite studies. Mentioned Freud. At least I *could* laugh at his face for mentioning FREUD! But seriously. What do you tell your daughters? I tell mine that they can be whatever they want to be--they can marry early and have a family (or not); they can marry late and have a family (or not). That you can't really plan to predict and plan for this, and that they need to live their lives to the fullest and do what they love doing, and that having a life partner can't be the primary goal, especially with certain ages in mind. But with everything I say and with everything how I raise them, DD ended up quite shaken. She's never thought about marriage in great details. She's assumed that one day she will get married, and this will be closer to her 30s than to her 20s. I think that's pretty typical for a 15 year old not to be too focused on when she'd get married! According to this relative, she should be thinking about getting married in 3 years!!! This was horrifying to her. Is this a prevalent opinion and I'm just being sheltered? How to counter-act? How to argue against? He laughed at me for being delusional for thinking that men are attracted to women who are approaching the end of their child-bearing age, which in his mind is 30-34, because after that there's a higher incidence of chromosomal defects / Down Syndrom. As a 42 year old woman, with some education, but no career, past my prime as a child bearing vessel, I felt easily dismissed. I hated feeling this way. I was taken aback by his attitude, shocked. But I also kept wondering that maybe he is right, and this is really what men and women are about, and the society is about. I'd love to hear all perspectives. Not a JAWM. Thank you.

:grouphug: Love to you and Jenny.

I picked it up at a thrift store as I liked the illustrations and the format and I thought that would be a good edition to introduce my children to the content of the Bible (we are not religious.) Though I've read parts of the Bible in the past, it was more in the context of some kind of an analysis, where we'd focuse on literally some paragraphs. It was an interesting experience to read all of the Old Testament in a row, so to speak, but in a greatly simplified form. I was sort of surprised at how my children perceived the Bible, and I would like to ask whether this is how it is perceived or this is just an unfortunate rendition. "You read one story, and you read them all," the kids said. "Every story is about the people not listening to / forgetting their god, getting punished, starting listening again. Then forgetting their god again. Rinse, repeat." So is this really what it is about? I don't want to read the actual Bible just yet. I'd like to read Bible stories again, but with more depth in them. Is there such an edition? Or should we just read the Bible if we want to learn more and dig deeper? Any books that you can recommend that might engage in an accessible analysis? (Either from secular or religious point of view). The kids are 9 and 12.

When I was in university 4.3 = A+, 4=A, 3.7=A-.

This would be very cathartic to write, but probably better not send. I would simply not show up for the recital, just in case the teacher loses his mind and actually cancels. It is much simpler to simply not show up.

This is great. You guys gave me a bit of a perspective. I need to tone it down a bit. It wasn't a verbatim conversation, but an accumulations of a dozen of similar conversations, both on this very particular topic and on similar topic. It is also a bit condensed. But I guess it is telling how I wrote it down. I do try to use I statements, but maybe not enough. What gets to me is that I do understand him, and then he shuts me down claiming that I don't. I have to express myself more clearly, I guess. CatWoman, yes, very hard to distance myself, especially as he depends so much on me driving him, and this just makes me feel more involved--huge chunk of my life is in transit because of this. Thank you for understanding this.

That's a good point. I think do a lot of understanding, without stating that I disagree. I do try. But then we come to bigger issues, like how much support I can offer for his activities, such as $$ and driving. And if I say that I see him asking for even more support sounds like he is taking me for granted and this attitude is one of entitlement, he says I'm not understanding him due to my failure to listen. So am I accusing too much? Maybe that's the problem.

This is great. Let me try to analyze what's happening in our conversations. DS: I think X is taking an advantage of my skills. Me: Yes, I agree (agreeing for real, cause I do agree). What X said does sound like he's undervaluing the help you are providing. However, X is providing a valuable service to you too. Not as valuable in your eyes, and maybe not as valuable period, but for you to get better at your skills you might need to compromise. Besides, we don't have any other options at this time. DS: I'm not going to offer any help to X anymore. Me: Yeah, I know, you feel undervalued. But due to your age and lack of general experience this is really the best option we have. DS: Yes, we have other options. You can spend $500/mo more on this. Me: Well, actually, no, as you know, we can't afford this, so X is your only option for now. (repeated a bunch of times until I actually get annoyed). I'm tired of you sounding entitled to this parental support. We have to budget expenses for your sisters as well, plus I don't think that's a good thing to present yourself as a know-it-all. You seem to think that you have nothing to learn from the experience, but I don't agree. Just having this experience, even if it is not groundbreaking, is very much needed if you want to proceed in this direction. DS: You never listen and you are twisting my words! My perspective: I've been agreeing with everything, validating, supporting, and then conveying my opinion that while I do agree with his assessment that he is possibly taken advantage of (not paid for something that others would be paid), I don't agree that he should be dismissing this experience, especially considering that we don't have other options. I know it is frustrating to him, that there are no options. I've acknowledged this too, for months! It is frustrating to me as well. But my ultimate point is that he has to do what he has to do, which is persevere in the situation and be more humble, and that his attitude is not very mature. I guess our "arguments" are not for the sake of argument, but more like disagreements on rather important issues. I know he resents this because he is not as independent as he'd like to be, and it's hard. But I'm done with the attitude of entitlement. And when I express it, he says that I twist his words (I guess because he doesn't see his attitude as one of entitlement?)

Maybe I should have a habit of literally rephrasing everything and asking for confirmation? But honestly, some things that he says are pretty clear and I'm 100% sure I'm not twisting his words, just putting them in perspective / bigger picture.

Lately even if I think a discussion is going well (like no one is upset, just he doesn't agree with what I have to say) he claims that I'm twisting his words and listening "to reply, not to understand." I don't think this is true. I actually make an effort to understand. And I've repeated quite a number of times that understanding only means empathy, not agreement! I do have empahty, have empathized and validated, and yet I don't agree with his stance on the issues we are discussing. When I step back and ask him to repeat himself and explain one more time, in case I truly missed something, he refuses. I'm at a loss, though. How do you have a productive conversation?

:grouphug: