I don't know if this will help, but it was a thread recently on being "former-quiverfull" or the related. I think you'll find it comforting in a sense to see the struggles others in your situation have gone/are going through. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301976&highlight=quiver

Ohh! That's good to know! Thank you.

Wonderful! Thank you! I have lots of friend who say they don't water bath their canned tomatoes either. Should I add lemon juice to pain canned tomatoes or not, do you think? I'm willing to go with what's been tried and true by generations of home canners :) Thanks!

Hi! I'm canning tomato sauce for the first time and have about 10 pints. Now, my water bath canner only hold 7 pints! I have to boil them for about 35 minutes. Will my other pints be ok just sitting on the counter until I have space in my water bath to process them? Thanks so!

I agree that a good education can Really help out. And Working hard and good health! And luck! Luck too! My husband and I have terminal degrees in both of our fields and lived below the poverty line for the last 5 years. (While he was getting his Ph.D.--he had a Master's until that point, but got sidetracked into Christian ministry, realized after 5 years he didn't have a future there, and had to go back to school). We're finally making some money, and we've always been very frugal and saved all we can, and we're debt-free besides the house, but still we're going to be eating cat food in our old age. :( I used to believe that you should follow what you love and that you'll find a way to make money at it. "Follow your bliss!" Frankly, now I'm telling my children, think of something you like and find the field that can make you the most money that is somewhat related to it. I wish my husband and I had done that. We like what we do, but we'd rather not have the financial horrors we do. I hope my children make enough money so that they can help us out some day if we need it :( I'm sad at how much of my idealism is gone, but my childish ideals are over. The reality has been hard.

I've heard Christians say they don't give to charities to save the poor and starving for just this reason. Talked a Chrsitian about the Somalian famine just the other day who thought the same. "Jesus said the poor will always be around, so it's no good trying to fix [the cycle of poverty]. It's really sad, but it'll (children dying in Somalia) happen no matter what we do. " Honestly! Same reason Ken Ham gave in his blog several days ago about why Christians shouldn't try to take care of (believe in :)) human caused global climate change. I view this as religiously inspired learned helplessness.

Not really. There are some small benefits, but really, if he's manually brushing as well as he (that is to say YOU) can, it should be fine. Go ahead and brush for him, really, to make sure he does a good job.

We met our first week of college. He was on staff with a Christian group, playing guitar for worship I was a student looking for a Christian group. Had no interest in scoring a boyfriend. He had no thought about potentially dating a student. Was instantly taken with him. We had a ton in common. Married after my junior year. Weird. I still can't believe it. I don't know exactly how it's worked out so well. We even lost faith together! We're sort of kindred-spirits, I think. I adore the peas and carrots out of him :)

Does anyone here have any experience with Williamsburg Academy? http://www.wacademy.org It's just recently appeared on my radar. It's a classical, full-curriculum high school, though you can apparently take one class at a time. They're live classes with a teacher/mentor and other students, and what looks like a great book list. Has anyone talked about it, and I've just missed it?

I put "other". I always planned on going year-by-year, but anticipate putting my kids in school in high school. I really like the schools where we live, and they'll definitely have a lot more opportunities in the high schools. Another option, if that doesn't pan out, is Williamsburg Academy. http://www.wacademy.org It's an online, live, classical/Thomas Jefferson Education high school. They've developed their own curriculum, and have mentors, group work, and interactive online classes. There's also a week-long outdoors experiential learning camp they do a couple of times during the summer. I'm hoping to have my kids start doing the outdoor camp as soon as they're old enough. They won't be old enough for high school for a while, so there's time to think about it. . . . Apparently, kids typically start in a sophomore year. Anyway. I'm going to post an S/O on it because I've never seen anyone on here talk about it, and I'd like to get more impressions.

Ohh, excellent. ". . . Like we're trusting God to take care of the poor elsewhere." I've nearly nodded myself to a whiplash.

Hug! Whew, hang in there. Take some time for you. Maybe you could just . . . do what you can live with for a while regarding not getting preggers for a little bit, just to be able to recover and see things through for a while. Exhaustion, and emotional fatigue never contribute well to long-term decision making. I hope you recover strongly enough to enjoy this week one when she or he comes along. You don't have to decide anything right now. . .except whether you should have chocolate or vanilla ice cream for dinner ;)

Please don't feel bad for me. Leaving Christianity and Jesus/God was one of the best things I ever did. It wasn't terribly wrapped up in QF. I knew QF was not a mainstream part of Christianity, and it wasn't that big a deal to me. It fell by the wayside much earlier than my actual faith did. What led to the destruction of my faith mostly concerned the inconsistencies found in the Bible. That's all. :) Not a misunderstanding, just comparing gospels and some OT with NT and finding there were errors and discrepancies. Maybe my misunderstanding was believing that the Bible was inerrant. Whatever. . . it doesn't matter so much to me anymore. As I cut my final links, really, I can look back a little more dispassionately and try to understand how my faith affected every part of my life (some for positive and some for negative) and come to grips with that.

Yes, the man who married us used to continue the metaphor by saying that warriors had to fashion and take care of each arrow on their own. It took time and effort to fashion an arrow, and that the quantity of arrows wasn't the point so much as the quality of each. The argument I always heard was that only God knew what your quiver could hold, and that one should trust Him to do the best thing for your quiver. Either way. . .meh :) But, even when I was a still a Christian, and was no longer QF-ish, I'd have felt exactly like you. Quivers, like snowflakes, are different :)

Yes, I've been there quite a bit. . .but it's a little long-winded for me. ;)

Whew! Yes, I sympathize. I can't imagine. I knew a family who had 5 children, and the final 4 had a peculiar genetic disorder that made the partially blind and deaf and . . .well, they all died in their late teens due to related heart issues. They didn't resort to birth control even after the first two ill children, and only gave it up once they realized it was too difficult on their family. They felt like failures; that God wasn't going to give them more than they could handle, but they just couldn't do it any more. I'm glad you haven't felt that hurt and you did what worked for your family!

Ah, I may have been mistaken. They aren't remarried; I got that wrong. Here's the article. I read it several weeks ago, and didn't remember the details. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/09/us/09beliefs.html?_r=1

Thanks so much for sharing. These are some of the things I've been dealing with. I'm so sorry for your losses. Heart-breaking. I can't begin to imagine. It's been tough looking back and knowing I'd have made different choices if I'd known we'd be in the situation we're in now. Not that I'd give up any of my children. Not one! But that's a different story. I love them so much. But if I could go back and talk to the me of 21. . . I think things might have turned out differently with my family (If I'd have listened to me ;) The religious/spiritual aspect was a real tough one for me, and still is. As I deconvert, I've been thinking back on my previous beliefs and how I came to them, and how I see them differently now. Particularly with what's happening in Sudan. You see the pictures of the starving children, and it's just horrifying. Back in my more anti-BC days, I believed that God would provide, that every child was a blessing, and that His love was so great, and his providence so perfect, that He would maintain us whatever our financial situation. But, I think part of that was based on my own, limited experience as a fortunate American. There are Christian children, born to Christian parents who starve to death. Hundreds of them. Have been thousands of them. But it wouldn't happen to me. Girls as young as 9 and 10 are having babies in some cultures, where they are wedded to older men. They die in child birth. I wonder if these babies are a blessing to. I just came to the acceptance that not every baby is a blessing in every situation. It was just an easy thing for me to pretend. I love babies. I love children. I certainly love my own children. But the reality I saw was different than what I was trying to convince myself of when I was anti-bc/pro-God. Thanks again. I don't want to start a war; I just want to hear from others. Thinking, and sharing with other people has been very helpful, and sort of like a therapeutic thing. I'm grateful to you.

I'm sorry for your grief in not being QF. I hope you have much healing and joy in your family. Thanks for sharing.

A belief espoused by some Christians that a married couple should do nothing to prevent conception, under any circumstances, including medical reasons, finances, etc. The bearing of children is the Lord's, and only His, to grant. One is not to thwart, or make extraordinary effort in the conception of offspring. You can find lots on it if you'll Google.

Thank you for the reminder. I'm sure we're all grown-ups enough to take these matters into account when we're posting personal stories.

. . .or any related "used-to-be-anti-birth-control, but-am-now-for-it." I've been trying to read some places online for support, but not really finding anything as I try to . . . deal with my change of thinking. When I first married, I was interested in going "no-birth-control" if not necessarily full-quiver. I prayed over it, presented my hopes to my husband, But we decided to use birth control for a while and then go off BC when we were financially ready, and "let God" do the rest. After 5 c-sections, 5 happy, healthy, wonderful children, painful recurrent inguinal hernias with each, I got my tubes tied. I'm also an atheist now. I have several Christian friends who used to be anti-BC and even full-quiver, but after having "real life" happen to them, most are on some form of BC, or family planning, etc. I haven't really had the courage to talk to them about it because I know the issue of my apostasy will come up. I've been thinking of this more lately because the couple who wrote "Open Embrace: A Protestant Couple Reconsiders Contraception," have recently explained they are no longer anti-BC, and are divorced, remarried and very liberal Christians. In fact, they repudiate their former book. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would share their stories, how it changed their faith, etc. Anything related to once being anti-BC and now being pro. Please, if your purpose is to convince other people that BC or family planning is wrong, feel free to start your own thread, but I'm hoping this one can be a kind, caring one for those who have had to make big, difficult changes from something they once believed in. I'll be happy to share more of my own journey on this issue as soon as I can get back to the computer. I have to get dinner on now :) Lots of hungry mouths around here! :)

This is wonderful! I bet my son would adore this for his next birthday!

I used to believe in demons and demon possession. I no longer believe in either. I voted accordingly.

YESYESYES!! Thanks so much! I had most of it wrong, but you pinned it! Thanks so much. I don't know why I thought it was London--I think I was reading a bunch of London at the time I was reading this anthology--maybe that, and this piece is by Tobias Wolff. . .and when I think of Wolves I think of London. . .hee. I don't know. One of those funny brain mix-ups. Thanks a TON! I can't wait to read this again. It's been nearly 20 years!