What kind of religious requirements are there? My husband grew up in a religious home; all Catholic. He went to Mass weekly and was an altar boy. Went to CDC (or whatever the teaching classes are called). It was something children in the family were expected to do. He was an atheist however. Would he have met the requirements because he participated in religious life, in spite of being Atheist? I just didn't know about this, but am very interested!

Oh, my! I didn't even know what "A" was referring too. I though. . ."adultery?" Guess I'm too much of a newbie :)

I didn't understand that belief in God and faith were requirements for being good and doing the right, moral thing. But I know many people/organizations do. I have no problem with any religious person doing good things and saying they're doing them because they believe in God. My kid can be just as moral and upright as any religious kid. My husband was in Scouts for years, as an atheist, and never had the impression that it was a religious institution. That's fine that there are badges for faith. Just like there are badges for lots of things. Kids aren't required to earn them all, are they? If my atheist kid didn't want to earn a religion badge, that would be no skin off my nose. How many religion badges are there, by the way? Again, I have no problem with the BSA having the right to say anyone is excluded. But I have the right also to say I don't like specific policies. And I agree, the BSA should not receive any government funding/goodies if they don't follow the rules.

Some peoples beliefs are bigoted.

I think it's the fact that BSA is such a large group, with so much backing, you can find it anywhere, it's widely recognized, and has so many ways people can participate. People, including atheists and gays, want to be a part of it, for all of it's benefits--many of which have to do with the fact that's it's a group that's been around for so long and is established. It's a bit of a shock to find out they can discriminate against groups of people whose non-belief and sexual identity don't have anything to do with decent behavior and the skills Boy Scouts are supposed to exhibit. If BSA was a p!ssant little group, no one would care.

Yep, I sadly agree--with the private organization having the right to choose their own guidelines--not about the popcorn. Blech! :)

Would you oppose a change to the BSA policy in these matters? I'm curious.

I'm glad it's been good for you. This is not a personal attack!

I don't think that most BSA folks are anti-atheists or anti-gay, but the policies of the organization are. What is the point of excluding gays and non-believers if not because they're "not the right sort". Behavior over belief, is very important to me. I don't know how I'd look my gay friends in the face again if I knew my children were involved with a group that specifically excluded them or gay children.

After what I've learned in the last two days, I'll definitely be doing something different than Scouts, you're right. As to the link, it was the best one I found that showed the problem the most clearly. He blurred the boy's name. I find that the boy posted to be much more of a problem. I'm sure the boy wasn't disciplined in any way by the Scouts--though he didn't seem very reverent there. I'm not going to demand the Scouts let us in, but I'm surely not going to encourage any one to join them or to hold them in esteem anymore.

Why can't "non-belief" be a standard? Oh, right, because non-belief is beneath belief. People who can't believe aren't the right kind of people. Why can't the standard be behavior? Then, maybe a good atheist kid could have stood in the place of this winner. http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/what_it_takes_to_stand_out_in.php

Hmm, I suppose some pagans might make an "organized religion" out of it, with collective groups and specific rules/beliefs/rituals, etc. Paganism is really more of an independent path, and there are dozens of types of Paganism. My understanding, and my practice, is it's more of an earth-centered spirituality. I revere nature. I make personal rituals of meaningful nature-based events. No one else participates in my Paganism. I think that Paganism is an umbrella term which might cover some religions, but is not itself a religion. I don't think paganism lends itself easily to organized expression. Sort of like the term "theism". There are religions beneath that umbrella, but they're all different except for the idea of a theistic being. Of course, other may disagree. That's part of the charm of Paganism, I guess. :)

Impressive! That takes some balance, I think. :lol:

Watching right now! :)

I had no idea! Yes, I just thought the Girl Scouts were the female incarnation of Boy Scouts. Hmmm, that may make my decision different. Perhaps I'll just put my little boy in 4-H instead of Boy Scouts. Food for thought. Thanks all!

I really struggle with it, honestly, and with their stance on gays. . .that really blows me away. Curiously, I was talking to the lesbian couple across the street, and a lesbian friend of theirs (in her middle age, and with a long-term partner) is a "professional" Girl Scout and is in charge of a large region of the country in some sort of capacity. I was floored, but glad that even though gays are discriminated against by the scouts, that some gay people are willing to fly under the radar in an anti-gay organization to be of help to it, and to others. I wonder if some of these issues are viewed with a nod and shrug in some areas.

When my husband was young, he used to just not say the God parts in the pledge. I don't know how he dealt with the rest. He was an atheist and still is. I'll be curious as to how my husband suggests we deal with this when my son, assuming he still an atheist, when it becomes an issue in scouts.

:grouphug: I'm sorry for your pain and for the busybodies who go about prying into your business. I don't believe in any "supposed" for anything. There is simply reality. We all struggle with the things we don't get in our reality. And it makes it far worse, especially, to be surrounded with people whose religious beliefs tell them that certain realities show they are blessed or more important in the bigger scheme of things. It just stinks.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just always figured, since I first heard them as a kid, that the original children listening to these would be black children, and imagining them as "black" animals :) You're right in that they probably have no real "race", and surely they weren't meant to create a white/black conflict in any case.

I believe that all of the character in the Brer stories are supposed to be African-American, in so far as an animal can be that :D Here's a version of the Tar Baby story http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/brer_rabbit_meets_a_tar_baby.html I only vaguely recall the Brer Bear story, but it sounds like a typical trickster story. There are conflicts between these animals. They're always picking on one another and causing one another problems. Read the Tar Baby story and you'll see. These are typical trickster stories. They're not morality tales--not in the way you're perhaps thinking.

I believe it was _Huckleberry Finn_ that was Bowdlerized.

Well, it doesn't have to have a "moral" to be an intrinsic, important part of American literature. The Brer stories are part of American American history, and should be preserved so it's not just white people and white literature and white everything that's all there is left. They are important trickster stories, similar to trickster stories you'll find in various cultures all over the world. I think you should look up the story of the tar baby online and read it. You may find that one more accessible. It's a clever story, and you could probably derive a moral from it. Ohh, Brer Rabbit is supposed to be black as well. "Brer" comes from the Gullah pronunciation of "Brother".

I think it's a little different than what you're asking for, and this is from the point of view of a "leaver", but I left 20 years of Evangelical Christianity (when I was 33 years old), partly because I saw the lives of my non-Christian family. When I was losing faith in the Bible and God/Jesus, I was partially afraid because I wondered how to teach my children to be good, moral people without such things. Then, I thought of my younger brother, who is one of the most decent, honest, kind people I know. He's always been a non-believer, and I've always admired him. Then, I thought of many of my other friends who weren't believers and were good, moral people. So, it was easier for me to just dump my last reasons to even give any sort of acknowledgment to religion as a guiding force when I saw that their lives were just as moral, or more so, than many religious people I knew. I've never told my brother that. He would probably shrug it off. I spent lots of time trying to convert him. I've heard that a Christian should be able to convert people without a word, simply by the holiness of their lives. That's the way my brother converted me (or, deconverted me :))

I did wind up adding a little lemon juice or vinegar. Just to be safe.

That's what I wound up doing. I just filled 7 jars, and kept the rest hot. I've got my fingers crossed :)