Lesson learned. :)

This will likely be my last response since I've gotten the advice I needed. I do want to say, I never intended to tell this woman how to teach her daughter or interfere at that level at all. Sorry if I gave that impression, but I suspect that has more to do with your prior experiences than with what I actually said. I don't fault you for that. Gaining the benefit of those experiences is why I asked here and did not make it a JAWM. Thank you for your help.

Thanks. Totally understand and am in 100% agreement.

In this thread I've been told to "but out" and "keep personal comments to a minimum." I'm curious to konow whether that only applies if the homeschooler in question never talks about homeschool (which makes sense but doesn't fit the situation) or if that advice still applies but in a way I don't understand. Here's my level of judgement: Homeschooling can be hard. I have certain advantages. She has other advantages, very real ones, but she also has some disadvantages. She's close to me and a friend. I think I can help, but I worry that, because she knows she has some disadvantages, she will feel judged. This thread, while it has made me feel judged and quite upset at times, has been worth it because it has shown me areas where I should tread extra lightly as many homeschoolers, at least on this board, were quite touchy about them. I was worried that providing material support would be the most likely to offend given the economic situation, but if this thread is any indication, that's the safest way to go (babysitting, inviting along to outings, reading books as presents).

Thanks. This is really helpful and probably summarizes the good ideas that are in this thread. I happen to be awesome at teaching and planning in a one-on-one setting (though some might think that's impossible for a mother of toddlers), but I will continue to hide that as much as possible so that I don't overstep. I'll have my opportunity later with my own kids.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean this in a kindly way, so I'll ask further, what would it look like to "butt out"? I see this woman frequently, and, as homeschooling her daughter is important to her, she brings it up a lot. If I fail to make any comments further than "mmhhmm" and "sounds great" she will, justifiably, feel I'm being cold and distant, not truly supportive. Do all of you really not talk about homeschooling the way some of you say you don't?! Because my friends who homeschool, with the exception of one family, talk about it all the time!

Thanks for explaining. There are several conferences here, so it's very possible. This thread has really been a lesson in humility for me! I knew this was a very touchy subject, but I had no idea how touchy! While it seems that some home-schoolers would rather no one discuss homeschooling with them unless they have asked that person a very specific question, I'm not going to take it that far. I will tread gently and respectfully, being physically helpful (babysitting etc) when I can and asking questions when I can ask them in an open and honest way. (For example, I will ask "I was reading that such and such works well for some kids. Do you think that helps with yours, or what do you do in that situation?" but I will not ask anything that I already (think) I know the answer to.) I'll also give books that I think the child would find interesting as I know the mother and child would both enjoy this. I would guess from the strength of responses here that there are lots of unhelpful meddlers in this world. I promise I will do my best not to be one of them.

Offering to babysit is a really obvious way to help and one that I really should do! Thank you. I really don't understand the first part of your post though. Mind explaining?

Again, thank you for reinforcing to me how carefully I need to tread. I clearly didn't word the initial post well. She is close to me, she's a new-ish friend, but one I expect to see 1-2 times a week for the foreseeable future. She's doing a GREAT job with her kid, and I know she will always do her best. She's in a tough spot for other reasons, though, and I want to be a help. I know y'all don't know me from Eve, but please assume that I'm asking you before acting so that I will not do anything jerky. The reason I see this possibly coming up with others in the future is that I have a reputation for knowing a lot and people do come to me asking questions a lot. I've talked peer-to-peer with some who have kids my kids' ages, but if I do end up putting my kids in school and they homeschool, then once again I will be in the position of them having home-schooled and me not. Does this mean that we can no longer talk the same way? I don't know. I will be careful to consider my friends' strengths even more than I already do. I appreciate many, many things about this woman, and the others I'm thinking of. I will not list those things here because I respect their privacy, but it may be a good thing for me to physically list them out before I see her again so that I will have them at the top of my mind.

Yeah, I think a mini-conference at our church could be a possibility, and that would keep me from acting like an authority in a situation where I really am not. Plus that would help others and myself!

Thanks for your response. While I'm not good at sticking to simple chit-chat with anyone and I know that the topic will come up (by her leading) too much to make this possible anyway, your stridency is a really good reminder to me how careful I need to be to not be the jerk who thinks I know better and forces ideas on others.

Thanks! Yes, asking questions to draw out her thinking is what I was thinking would probably be best. I just don't want to sound too much like I'm asking leading questions. I'm working myself towards being ready to ask from a position of really wanting to learn from her and not just take the lead and try to teach her her business, but also be ready to share what I have learned, if that makes any sense.

Here's my update from post 69. Here goes what I should have asked: I have a friend who is homeschooling. She's doing an amazing job, but she's got the deck stacked against her in some ways economically and socially. She's pretty much family, and I want to know, how can I, as someone who is not a homeschooler, be helpful and supportive to her? We see each other often, and she often brings up how and what her child is doing. I will admit that part of my brain, the part that loves to plan and thinks I know best, would love to try to take over, but I know this is a horrible, no-good idea that would not help me, the mother, the child, and certainly not our friendship. One thing I've already done is tell her about a great used book sale in the area. She was excited, but the timing didn't work out for her to go. I offered to pick up books for her. She made some requests, including for workbooks at her child's level. I really don't like the idea of a bunch of workbooks, I'll admit again, but that's not my business. I honored her request, picking up a few workbooks, a few early readers, and a couple of books that I happen to know they will be really excited about. It makes me feel good to be helpful in this way, but when I see how hard she's working, I want to do more! What can I do for her, and what can I do for my other friends who are also planning to homeschool despite some difficult circumstances? And here's what I have figured out the answer is, thanks to your supportive and critical comments: Being a friend is helping, even if it feels like I should be doing more. What she likely needs is that listening, non-judgmental ear. Babysitting during a conference, or just so she can go to a coffee shop and have a few minutes to herself, would probably also be a good thing to offer. She's doing an amazing feat of balancing life already, and I should learn from that. When amazing opportunities come up, I should let her know about them with no expectations. When I come across a book I think her child would love, I'll pass it along and then be sure not to, especially not surreptitiously, check to see if it was read. If she has any worries, I'll talk with her about them, and she'll probably come up with the right answer without me saying much at all. Just keep developing friendship, keep being there for her, and that will help her, and me, more than anything I could plan out. I have a lot of friends who homeschool, and chances are I will too, at least at some seasons of our childrens' lives, in the future. I want to be a supportive, helpful friend. With many of my friends, this is easy. They are experienced or have thought things through a lot, so I'm good with being a sounding board, oohing and aahing over children's accomplishments, and keeping my opinions to myself if they are doing something that I, in my utterly inexperienced state, think I would never in a million years do. With one friend, though, I really want to help more. I don't want to risk violating her privacy, so I'll be vague and say that she's close to me but I don't know her super well yet, her financial situation isn't the best, and her child is early elementary, advanced for her age. Mom has to work, and while she fits homeschooling and mothering around that very well, she really doesn't have time for researching, learning about how children learn, etc. I offered to pick up some books at a (dirt cheap but very good) used book sale and asked what would be helpful. She named a few topics of interest to her child and then also added "workbooks." I asked what kind, and her answer was "X-grade," which made me think she hasn't really planned things out all that much. This isn't too concerning because her child is ahead and advancing, but mom might feel overwhelmed as child keeps advancing, and child might benefit a lot from more of a challenge. I would love to help her, but I don't want to be rude or pushy. I'm a bit of a know-it-all, I'll admit, but part of that is because, in all modesty, I'm a very bright person who reads quickly and retains most. I am good at diplomacy, but no matter how nicely I put it, if I'm shoving in where I shouldn't be, well, I shouldn't. What would you do? What could I do that would actually be helpful? I'd love to invite her over, have her go through my vast library of children's fiction and non-fiction, and help inspire her to make a bit of a plan where the next few years could go. I'm guessing most of you will tell me to butt out, and I get that, but this friend and I will be seeing a lot of each other, and her child's schooling comes up naturally in the course of conversation very often. (With a few other friends I can see running into similar issues in a few years, so even if your advice isn't specific to this case, I'd love to hear it.)

One thing to consider about "no answering the door." My husband is a police officer and a common thing for petty thieves, at least in this area, is to knock before breaking into a house. If someone answers, they ask if you've seen their dog or offer to rake leaves for a hundred bucks, then move next door when you say no. If no one answers after a good bit of knocking, they break in. My kids are little, so I don't know how to put this in practice exactly, but maybe teach your kids to make some noise, like slamming a door, if someone is knocking. And help them pick a window to look out so that if they see it is the police or grandma they can make an appropriate decision (opening the window to talk to the cops, if you'd prefer that to them opening the door, perhaps.)

My friends (very conservative, live as overseas missionaries) allowed their little girls (age 3-9 at the time) to watch it, and very little else. They didn't find anything objectionable and began not previewing. They were then very surprised when their six year old, when being encouraged to try again on a math question, replied in a very sweet voice, "but it's so damned hard." As they aren't around many English speakers, this seemed completely out of the blue. Until it came to light that occasionally a "rough character" comes through town on the show, and those type characters sometimes use "damn" and "hell." (Sorry if writing out the words was offensive to you, but it was for the sake of clarity.)

I hope this is in response to me because that would mean I've made my first contribution to someone on this board! I am basing this on what I dream of doing with my kids someday and what I would have enjoyed, but I'm of the opinion that, if you are studying a Shakespeare play as literature, you'll get more out of it as part of a focused study. If, however, one fits really well in a unit you are doing, it might whet his appetite for more the following year.

As a companion to MacBeth, and really any Shakespeare or other works of the time, I'd recommend reading The Elizabethan World Picture by Tillyard, a short(ish) work that explains the perspective of the time regarding proper hierarchies and the relationship between one's personal choices, society, and even nature. It lends itself well to a lot of discussion and makes it much easier for bright young students to have their own insights. My classmates and I read it in college and the discussions went out of the classroom, into the dining hall, and everywhere. If you were working on King Lear, I'd say this book, or at least a synopsis of it, would be an almost necessary companion.

I have a one year old and a two and a half year old, and when we are out in public, people ask if we are homeschooling. I'm generally at a complete loss as to what to respond that doesn't sound insulting as my first thought is "that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard." My friend with kids the same age loves getting asked this, though, and proundly answers in the affirmative.

If there's a subject that always comes up in your dh's family, like a sports team or some culture's cuisine or whatever, maybe you could give a book on that topic as a sort of humorous "welcome to the family, but do your homework so you can join in the conversation." Of course, I belong to a family of nerds, so that might not work for any other family.

I view it as the 3rd servant making excuses and the master refusing to be drawn off the main point. Like if your kid tries to get into an argument about fairness at bedtime and you don't engage.

You make some good points. I'm trying to check my own motives and feelings, but I really haven't been personally hurt by her disapproval. She has voiced the standard "the reason your baby is so clingy is because you don't have him in preschool" and "Why are you still breastfeeding" kinds of things straight to me, but I'm confident in my choices and so mostly feel a kind of amusement (and honestly, maybe I feel condescending a bit). Since she has tried to criticize other parents to me, I'm sure she's said other things behind my back as well, but her opinion isn't of great importance to me, and I think everyone kind of just shakes their head and says "That crabby nursery lady" about the things she says to them. She is kind to most of the kids, lots of hugs and affection mixed with a lot of scolding, but it is balanced for most of them. Then there are a handful for whom she NEVER has anything nice to say, and this number happens to include all the minorities. I wouldn't call her a racist in person, because to her generation (in this area especially) that term describes something very strong and terrible, and she is not that kind of person. She just sees dark skin and assumes there's going to be trouble (yes, I'm reading some into what she does, but there are loads of people in this category and I think I'm making only very small assumptions). Basically, I've brought it up to the hierarchy once and I think something was done or said, but I'm unsure what. I was posting here to get some feedback to help me think through whether I'm over-reacting or should bring it back up, as well as to try to get some sense of whether to go directly to Nursery Lady or to her boss.

Relax! At first, reading your post I assumed the kids were like 6 and 8 and thought "how terrible," but a 1 year old won't care and neither should you.

Right. I think the head of children's ministries is trying to do this, but this older woman, understandably, trusts her own years of experience more. As someone her Grandkids' age, I know she doesn't take what I do very seriously.

Thank you for this response. It is this second that I'm trying to avoid, but direct confrontation is uncomfortable, particularly because I think she's not the "take a hint" type. I'll need to be very blunt, which is not my way.

More explanation while maintaining anonymity: On a weekly basis, I teach a class in an adjoining room, and after class, "her" babies and "my" toddlers play together. She makes comments about everything in a "over the kids' heads" kind of way, but very much in their earshot. The frequent comments about my and others' parenting are annoying, but eh. Other comments, like when boys have chosen to play with dolls, have more potential for being hurtful since the kids can certainly hear her disapproval. She doesn't stop them, but she talks about them like they are some kind of strange specimen. My perception of racism is based on the fact that the minority children never, ever, are described with positive adjectives as most of the other children are. Being energetic is described as being rough and mean (even when the child is sharing and it is playtime) and coloring a picture differently than others is sign of "something wrong," not creativity. And comments about "these people." (I do cut off these comments before they go anywhere, so I don't know all her thoughts on the subject.) It hasn't come up much in previous years because our church has historically been very white. She does have positive interactions, too. I think she doesn't believe kids can hear her unless she is speaking to them. I'm going to try to be more direct with her in a "can I talk to you in the hall" kind of way, then talk to the "boss." If it gets so bad I plan to leave, I will probably speak to the pastor's wife (and the pastor if she refers me there).