It would be upsetting to me. Even if I had the house blessed I would just think about it a lot and that would interrupt my mood in my new home.

Oh ok. I wasn't trying to argue that. That is unfortunate. I was just saying I didn't agree with using the term abortion in certain cases.

I believe you. I'm just saying that I don't always believe science to be on the mark. One day this is held true, years later they say oh well actually such n such is true as we have investigated further. Most doctors would have women believe that taking certain drugs during labor won't reach the baby and I've read contrary. I don't agree with misinformation. If they are upfront about the time frame before they show the footage, that's one thing.

I think there's some gray area on the matter. Sometimes it will be defined as the same thing, sometimes not. I don't think of it as the same because you aren't aborting (to me this means terminating) anything if you've already miscarried or have a stillborn. I know people that have had to have a D&C and I wouldn't use the terms interchangeably.

I don't feel confident that it's the same stuff. I would only touch the food-grade one. What I've found so far on the differences is that food-grade DE has to meet a certain standard for arsenic and lead content. If you look at the packages of DE you should see a difference in the crystalline silica percentage. I think it even varies from brand to brand of the food-grade variety. We ordered ours on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Wisdom-Grade-Diatomaceous-Earth/dp/B003RDKKV6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00. I don't have the link handy but I read a lot about it in the past and one site said which percentage to look for. You may want one of these and a dust mask. http://www.amazon.com/Pest-Pistol-PESTPISTOLRED-Mini-Duster/dp/B002SW52CE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 I actually need to put some out for ants but have been lazy. We have used this product in the past to deal with fleas, though.

I don't know at what trimester it was in reference to. So yes, that probably makes a difference. There are video clips on YouTube but I don't know if I can handle it. I hear myths which may or may not be repeated by medical professionals about whether or not newborns can feel certain pain and/or how effective pain relief measures are (circumcision in babies for example). I just have trust issues with matters like these even with scientific data.

In a case where a woman had to have a stillborn baby removed, I think I'd call it a D&C, not an abortion. Maybe I'm off here. In the case of extra fertilized embryos, well, yes I'd see if there was a way for them to not be discarded. Seems that every time a woman does IVF (okay, just the stories I hear in the media, I don't have stats) there are multiples involved and/or more than the couple expects, so I personally wouldn't take that risk to begin with if I wasn't ready to deal with the result of extra embryos. If doctors didn't discuss this possibility maybe it's not as popular as I think, but I do think it is something they should discuss beforehand so the couple has time to deliberate. If this was not a moral conundrum to my family, then it wouldn't matter to me. I didn't read the embryo adoption link yet so I don't know how involved that would be. I don't really like discussions about when a person or thing can feel pain because I am a huge skeptic. My baby had laser frenectomies as an infant. We were assured that many babies don't feel a thing, only cry from being held down. We were assured that the topical treatment was very powerful and kicked in right away. The dentist said she'd tried it on herself before. Many people don't think babies even need to use pain reliever (infant Tylenol or Motrin depending on age) for it. I wish I hadn't listened. I will never know what dd felt but I just know she was in pain/discomfort. The only reason we did it again was because the dr fiddled with the area on the check up appointment saying she was trying to fix it but made it worse and we had little choice to work on her a second time or have it heal horribly. You can bet I gave her pain reliever immediately and made sure we waited a bit for it to kick in. I have heard that the fetus will move away when a dr tries to do an abortion. I just don't know what they know/feel/sense and my doubt is enough to give me pause.

A lot of times funerals are seen as something for the living. The mourning are surrounded by loved ones that can offer comfort and share memories. If someone miscarries, they may not have told many/any people so who would they invite? It might have been private. Things like a eulogy would not make sense. I'm not saying there would be zero reason for a funeral, but I could easily see a family deciding against one. I remember seeing this in a movie.

Thank you. Yes, makes more sense now. But what is taught in Sunday school then? Basically overall equality and respect for other religions/spirituality? Edited: I guess that's a dumb question. I suppose it could be any/all of the seven things you listed.

That 3% figure was challenged in the past. I may be able to find an article on it... but yes, I think it was misleading because of things such as the condom/service example cited above.

The Catholic church is against contraception in most cases. I could see them saying it's okay say, with a couple where one person is HIV positive (using condoms). As a Catholic that has struggled with NFP (Natural Family Planning) in the past, I have received mixed advice from priests. Like, one told me to have my non-Catholic husband go ahead and get a reversible vasectomy for short-term. One held up my NFP chart and scoffed and said he didn't blame my husband for being frustrated. I am now trying again with a very experienced teacher to do my charting. I met with her this week for the first time and am feeling much better about charting. I've also been rereading my Billings Ovulation book. There are actually several forms of NFP, but the Billings Method is the one I seem affiliated with Catholic teachers often. I realize a lot of Catholics use contraception. One of my ob/gyns went to my church and used contraception and openly discussed all my options when I inquired. I'd say a great number of Catholics don't know about NFP and therefore feel like they have no choice. Current methods of NFP were not even discussed at my Engaged Encounter. Someone made references to the dated Rhythm Method they used when they were first married. Eek. There was a fairly young couple in my NFP class and they said they learned about the class during their Engaged Encounter which I thought was wonderful. Unlike me, who learned much later.

I couldn't get past the fact that you currently go to church but define yourselves as non believers. :confused1: Did you initially start going for your kids? For fellowship? I don't understand. Dh and I are not the same faith. When we moved here, very tiny town, he did think about going to the local church. He was planning on going with ds, at least to check it out, and I basically said, "ok, but ds is still going to church with me" (moral obligation. He's been raised Catholic so far and is baptized. We are supposed to go every weekend. It is not convenient. We have to leave town to attend). But they never ended up going. I doubt we would have felt like we fit there, anyway. There is nothing wrong with attending a church, believer or not. But I personally could not switch faiths or go regularly if I didn't believe and no one in my immediate family was tied to the faith. I guess I'd be asking myself if I'm doing this for convenience (access to fellowship or whatever) and if so, what happens when I move again? What if my kids got baptized in this town. Will I have my kids convert if the next town has a different town church? I'm not saying you are doing this, just thinking hypothetically. It sounds like you'd be attending in part for your kids' sake... but is that what got you started going to UU? If not, what drew you there? I don't expect you to answer me, but this is food for thought. I cannot personally fathom being a leader of any sort in a church where I didn't believe. But then again, I'm not really sure I understand what is taught in your Sunday school and what it means to be in a non-theistic religion. I tried googling, but still kinda lost. Not much help, I know. In my faith you register at a parish, but you might attend other local parishes of the same faith without changing your registration. It's maybe not the norm, but it's what I do a lot because the Mass times vary so much around here and I end up going to different ones in different cities. I only change my registration when I move long distance.

When I was a kid I joined a church line to hold signs (not at a clinic) for a pro-life stance and I didn't like all the signs. I would not then nor now hold up certain ones. I think some people still don't get that if you really want someone to "make a change of heart" (not sure how else to word this) then calling them names or using certain jarring language isn't the best way to do it. I think there are ways to talk to someone without harassing them. I kind of believe that the way to change abortion isn't through legislature. It's through a change of perspective. Again, not sure the right words to use. There's a quote by a nun in which she describes a lot of people as merely "pro-birth" not "pro-life." I agree that is something that needs to be addressed.

I am not familiar with this story, but I am Catholic and I wouldn't expect the mother to carry on with the pregnancy if she was literally going to die/potentially going to die. Maybe I am missing details. I've always heard "a life for a life" as far as exceptions on dying. Self defense in certain cases as well.

I had a thread like this and lots of people talked about "quiet time." I don't know if I count that as a real break lol. Yeah, it is compared to non stop in your face stuff, but to me a break is I leave the house or the family leaves the house :laugh: Dh sometimes takes the kids out of the house (like grocery shopping) and I am so very grateful for that time. I really like to be isolated sometimes. Dh is watching the kids now but I can hear everyone.

I try to think of opinions on organizations as just that, opinion. I don't know that I thought PP needed their rep saved because one person had a bad experience and shared it here, but actually it was good to show balance in the thread by hearing more. I probably would have done the same! I may not come across as open-minded or fair, but I try to be. I never intended to sweep over important or delicate matters in the thread as if they were minor. I guess I was just fixated on the overall message that I heard (not saying it was the main message or what I should have focused on but the one I left with). That message was, "I did/didn't receive the level of help I wanted." That is what my replies were based on. So I'm sorry for coming across as dismissive/rude/insertadjectiveofchoice. I have never shopped at Land's End, but I hear about that place on these forums all the time. I have heard good and bad. Overwhelmingly good. But yes, I remember posts from both angles. I have friends on FB that I have talked to about PP and no it wasn't all bad. I am not 100% neutral on them, no, but I am not blind to the fact that some locations don't even do abortions and sometimes they are the only place where someone can get certain help. At least, last I checked. I don't go out of my way to say these things about PP, but I don't forget them and am happy to offer the information if someone were to ask me. I don't know if my reply is helping or hurting so I should probably just shut up now.

I sent you a PM before I saw this. No one was saying that different PP experiences couldn't be shared. I think the problem is that some posts were perceived in different lights/seen as making blanket statements about PP. I'd appreciate not to be boxed into a corner as inconsiderate (or not compassionate) when my goal was actually just to defend Pinkmint if she was being told to shush because she wasn't the statistical majority. Really, I think everyone in this thread is trying to be compassionate to someone's thoughts and indirectly offending another someone in the process.

We're doing a lot of reading between the lines lol. I didn't claim to read the posts evenly but do admit I see a stark contrast in them. Your post kinda came across (to me) as patting someone on the head and saying, "now now, I know you didn't have a great time at this place, but lots of people do" and then citing statistics for all the people that had a pleasant experience. Okay, well, I don't think anyone argued actual stats. And I don't know that many women that have emotional baggage from either having or not having a child necessarily air those thoughts. I knew a girl in high school that told me about her abortions with an air of regret basically saying she felt she had to do that (reason had to do with children being accepted into society. She had concerns about race). Likewise I know someone else that had one that I never directly asked about it and I don't know that she has any regrets. I've heard some stat that gays make up 3% of the population and my first thought is, "but that's only the ones out of the closet, right?" I just take stats with a grain of salt on many topics. I don't doubt there are good and bad experiences at PP. I said as much a few posts back... I was typing that before I even saw Pinkmint's follow up to her experience post. *Edited: likewise her post came across as "I had a terrible time there" and did leave me wondering how training was handled with that employee and the practice.

I think some of us were just reading between the lines, that you have an overall positive view of PP while the previous poster probably has an overall negative view. Despite the fact that you both might agree that there are different experiences had by different women.

Thank you for sharing. I don't think I've ever heard from anyone first hand (even if it's online) about their experience with choices there. I didn't want to make assumptions about how PP employees presented options (and this may vary from location to location or employee to employee). As for the word "choice" debated up thread. Well, to me, choice does imply "keep or not keep" the baby and that could mean a few things I guess. Give birth and put up for adoption, give birth and raise/have family help, or abort. So maybe the places with the word choice that don't offer abortions are pushing a choice between the first two?

People can't even agree on when life begins anymore. Some say conception and some say implantation (I hear this is what people behind the pill will say to get around the idea that the pill could cause an abortion). I don't really expect them to agree on much in pregnancy I guess. ETA: when I said "people behind the pill" I meant business side. Not consumers. Though I do think consumers are often misinformed about how the pill may work. I say may because I think there are lots of possibilities on what can go on inside the body.

I don't even think you need to refer them to other places. I mean, is it really their job to give the person directions to say, Planned Parenthood? I don't think so. If the woman point blank asks, "is there a PP around here?" you should answer honestly, but I don't think it's necessary to start rattling off other places just because they realize there are in the wrong place for them. If I owned a vegan restaurant and someone realized they wanted meat, fine. But I'm not going to pull out a list of steakhouses for them.

For misc. children's books I'd like it by approx reading level. I know, I know, different books do levels differently. But if the book has a big fat 2 stamped on the front, then I'd put it with the level 2 readers. If it didn't have anything on the front, I'd find out approx. what age/grade or not pinpoint an exact age/grade but have a range. Might look at Amazon or common sense media for ideas on where to sort it. For things like math workbooks or such, I guess sort by subject and then within each subject it could be sorted by grade. A homeschool lending library sounds amazing.

I do believe many women should be celebrated that day. I tend to think of it as mothering to a human is all. I don't know if that's right or wrong, just the way I tend to associate it. I don't care if someone literally was a mom. They could have been a grandparent that raised their grandchild as their own, etc. (ok obviously a grandparent is a parent in the literal sense as well but I meant in regards to the grandchild)

Without even looking at the results, I can say that this question probably leaves a lot of hesitation for people. Whereas the pet vs child leaves less hesitation for many people.