I'm really tempted to do it, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get through a book of that length on the computer screen. I read HoAW last year.

I don't know if this is in response to what I said or not, but that was precisely my point. When I said church tradition, I meant the church over the centuries until recent times. I have come to believe that the Bible doesn't necessarily even dictate roles. But even those who are more traditional in their thinking of roles are at least distancing themselves from the idea that women are inferior (many Patriarchy folks claim church tradition backs up their belief... and it does). An interesting question, but maybe completely off the topic of this thread, is how men and women are indeed equal, and yet women somehow aren't capable of leading, teaching, pastoring, etc. What does it really mean that they're equal? I know what people say in response to that, but somehow it's not quite satisfying.

Oh, I don't know about Cheryl. I meant Jen's story. That just happened to be the latest post on her blog. LOL

You didn't ask me, but... A book that has challenged my thinking on these things is Sarah Sumner's Men and Women in the Church. I didn't realize that there was a large group of Bible-believing Christians who are egalitarians. I always thought those were the people who picked and chose from the Bible. BUT, it's interesting to note, that even Complementarians (which is the dominant belief in evangelical thought) are trying to distance themselves from the church's traditional view. Traditionally, the church taught that women are inferior. Sumner's book demonstrated how the Complementarians are trying to hold on to the traditional roles, while asserting that men and women are equal before God. Plus, she gives a pretty convincing explanation of the passages involved. They're not as cut and dried as everyone tend to think. What made me began to question these things was, first, learning about the Patriarchy people, whose views completely repulsed me. Then, I began to really think about the marriages that I respected. Even those who would say they're complementarians (or believe in submission), typically behave like egalitarians. Some food for thought...

This woman's story leads me to believe the Phillips are not very nice people, and I definitely think their theology is whacked.

How close to Austin is she? If she's just in a suburb and is comfortable driving into Austin to eat, there are some that would probably accommodate her. I'm thinking of Kirby Lane Cafe, Magnolia Cafe, Mother's Cafe. All are kinda Austin-y and "crunchy". Mother's is vegetarian. I'm pretty sure they have a vegan, gluten free chocolate cake to die for. Kirby Lane and Magnolia have breakfast all day and other stuff. There's a macrobiotic restaurant called Casa de Luz, too... I'm sure they have dairy/gluten free options, but macrobiotic is sort-of different. These are all locally-owned, so you'll probably have to find a website and call about getting a gift certificate. I moved away from Austin a little over a year ago, and I miss the food!

I'm glad the hierarchy of learning/teacher interaction thread got resurrected. I have long had the same thoughts. I've also recently seen some threads about Sonlight's high school curric and how it does not do a good job of going beyond comprehension and up into the higher levels of understanding. To those for whom this is a priority, is there a rhetoric (or even dialectic) level curriculum that really aids you, the parent, in having those discussions with your kids? It seems, from what I've heard, that TOG does. For those who use TOG: do you find that the curriculum helps you to pull those ideas out of the reading and gives you questions that go beyond comprehension into the higher levels of learning? Do you find that it gives a broad perspective that allows for wrestling with the ideas, or that it assumes more simplistic answers? I know that no curriculum takes the place of the engaged teacher/tutor, but I'm wondering if a curric like TOG can be a real help in this area. OR, if you really want to give your high schoolers that kind of education, you might as well do it yourself ala WTM. Has anyone found the rhetoric level of TOG useful for giving yourself that kind of education?

First of all, I'm so sorry. My mom had a full-term stillbirth when I was 6 years old. I went to the funeral. There were relatives who were responsible for watching out for my sister and I when my mom and dad couldn't be available for us in their own grief. So, we wandered around some after the service and looked at the ducks from what I remember. A 6 year old understands a lot, I think, and I believe it's important for you to give your child the chance to say goodbye in that way. I would definitely recommend having someone help you with your daughter if you need it, but seeing you and others grieve is important to help her learn what that looks like. A life lesson you don't want to have to teach her right now, I know, but one that will serve her in the best way given the circumstances, I think. Again, I'm sorry. For you, and for your daughter who shouldn't have to experience the reality of death so early.

Yep, my sister is a pediatric OT, and they are very creative about using purposeful play for therapy. For handwriting, they very well may use HWOT. That's what her clinic used.

Absolutely great excercise for your entire body. I was sore in places I didn't dream were possible after long stretches of sparring.

Am I the only one who caught this? :lol:

I agree with this, as it also seemed to help me. Also, accupuncture has induced labor for me with both of my births (even though the first ended up in a C-section), so that is an option if you go overdue and have an impatient care provider. I had a very supportive OB who actually talked me down when I was mentally heading toward interventions. I also had a doula which I think can help a lot mentally/emotionally when you're having a VBAC. Try to find a care team that is supportive. It makes me nuts when people use the term "trial of labor". Go with someone who believes you can do it. Please don't allow fear of the pain of labor to motivate your decision. I think way too many decisions about childbirth are made out of a fear of pain that have many detrimental consequences. Also, there are always risks. You choose the ones you are more comfortable with. But no method can guarantee a healthy mom and healthy baby every time. That's part of what makes childbirth and parenting so powerful. Neither is for cowards. Oh... one more thing. I read Baby Catcher: Tales of a Modern Midwife when I was pg with my second. It was so helpful to read so many stories of normal healthy births (although those aren't the only kind she tells about). You literally will laugh until you can't breathe and cry at times too. Although you want to do everything you can to have a healthy body, I think the biggest challenge for a VBAC is the mental/emotional strength to believe you can do it.

Take a break from progressing in OPGTR, but don't stop practicing somehow. I've found it also helps to go back through previous lessons and review what you've learned there (if that's not discouraging for your child). Also, are you doing 2 review and 1 new? That makes a ton of difference for us. Some days we only review, if that's all we get through before attention span wanes. I'll skim through past lessons and pick a word or two from each "category" for her to read. I think spelling words from the lessons (on a magnet board) also helps reinforce reading. We generally don't have the attention span to do reading and spelling in one day. So, we'll read the lesson one day, then spell words from it (and previous lessons) the next day. In general, I find that if I get in a hurry to progress, she becomes discouraged, and I get frustrated. Taking just a little at a time, pausing for review, and being consistent has proven to be the most fruitful approach. Reading the Bob books she's already read before also helps build fluency and confidence.

I personally try to keep my preschoolers away from TV or computer screens. I am leery of any kind of educational materials that are learned passively like that, especially for young ones. Reading is a skill that requires active participation, and in my mind screen "learning" is counterproductive to that.

I like how Jessie Wise recommends in OPGTR to cover up the word, and reveal one letter at a time. She recommends the same thing with reading sentences. It breaks it down into manageable pieces and builds confidence, while creating the habit of reading left-to-right. I think a whole sentence can be overwhelming at first for new readers. She also said in a conference talk I heard recently, that when tears begin, learning ends. It's probably best not to force a child to continue a lesson once they're frustrated enough to cry.

I haven't used either of the ones you've tried. I started with Phonics Pathways, and felt like it was little more than lists of words, and I didn't feel confident in how to *teach* my child to read. I got OPGTR, and we have started by reviewing most of what we've already done, but I feel like with JW's help, I'm actually teaching my dd how to read and developing in her the necessary habits to read well. My dd is improving and enjoying it more too. I'm actually surprised that more people don't like OPGTR because I've found it to be such a thorough, well thought out program. Editing to add that I am wary of using videos to teach reading. Although children might absorb information from them, I tend to think they are counterproductive in creating the habits necessary to produce a reader. JMHO, YMMV, etc. :)

My older dd is the same way. She got a bike when she turned 4. We skipped the training wheels, and she learned in a couple of days. She LOVES gymnastics. It's a great foundation sport for everything else. She's learning so quickly, and it gives her new challenges all the time (which she craves).

I started with Phonics Pathways, but found that I wanted a little more guidance on how to teach reading. Phonics Pathways is mostly pages and pages of lists of words to read, which got overwhelming for my young one. We've recently begun OPGTR, and I've found it very very helpful, and my daughter really enjoys it. I also like how it recommends you do simple dictation exercises with magnet letters when children aren't ready yet for writing. I'd agree with the HWT recommendation as well. Once they start wanting to write letters, you should make sure they are forming them the correct way, so they don't have bad habits that you have to change later. You can even skip buying the curriculum and make letters (starting with the capitals) out of playdoh, tracing them with a finger in a tray of rice or beans, and then attempting them nice and big with a crayon on paper.

I just wanted to mention that I was trying to get Salsa to play on my computer yesterday, tried downloading the RealPlayer that they link to on their site, and some porn sites started popping up and we got at least one virus on our computer that we still haven't gotten rid of. I'm not sure if it came from the RealPlayer site or the GPB site, but be careful!

Mandy, you're right. After I posted last night, I realized that the mother's inactivity is masterly because she is mastering her own impulse to over-teach or control her children's learning. I was confused. I should have looked back at the book before I opened my smart mouth. BUT, the point is... the children are anything but inactive, it's the mother who is inactive for the sake of her children's growth. I've even seen so-called CM curricula misuse this term, which is really annoying. CM's philosophy is much more than a list of things to-do or not do in your homeschool.

IF it was just inactivity, then the word "masterly" would not be a part of the phrase. I'm sorry if the adjectives I used were not appropriate, but I did not mean sneaky micromanagement. Although CM emphasized giving children much freedom to do all of the things you mentioned, that freedom would only be productive *if* the mother was careful to instill good habits. Those good habits come from careful, thoughtful guidance, particularly during the early years.

I see it often around here, but had just seen it on a thread a few pages back about CM. It's generally one of a list of qualities of a CM education.

Masterly inactivity is not something a child does per Charlotte Mason! The masterly inactivity is a description of the way a mother should subtly and discreetly guide her children in the development of good habits. Puleeez, if you're going to claim to follow CM's ideas, understand them first! That's all. No offense intended. :tongue_smilie:

I don't know what the specific problems are, but I've been working on this with my nearly 4 year old. For one thing, when she whines or asks for something in a whiney voice, I've learned to not respond, or to ask for a sweet voice. If she never gets what she wants with a whiney voice, she learns not to use it so often. Also, we had a bit of a showdown at lunch recently, where she threw a big fit about what I was serving (she had eaten it happily the night before), and I sent her to her room to throw her fit. I tried inviting her back to the table, she complained again, and she got sent straight back. When she finally got to eat, she did so happily and was very sweet the rest of the day. One thing that helps a ton is when I don't betray any emotion and am very matter-of-fact in my response. When I get upset, it just feeds it. Also, I've found that even though she doesn't need a nap most of the time, she still needs 1-2 hours of rest time, where she plays quietly by herself. That really makes a huge difference in her demeanor, and it helps mom restore sanity as well. I think sticking to predictable routines is a biggy too, so it's good that you're doing that. I'm no veteran, but I've been working on the same things, so it's fresh. I hope that is helpful!

Thanks for the feedback. Yep, I agree... that's why I'm wondering about the writing required in each. It seems to me (again from very limited samples) that ETC requires more writing and that the PP activities could more easily be modified to not require writing. Can anyone tell me if that is the case?