I can't speak for others, but I had no intention of attacking or judging (nor do I think anyone else was trying to attack you). I guess I was just surprised and trying to figure out why it might warrant a call to social services. (very gently...) It makes more sense (to me) knowing that this is an ongoing problem. I can understand being frustrated that the neighbors aren't responsive to your concerns. That would bother me were I in your shoes. I still don't think that allowing the little girl to play outside, even on the car where she could fall, would be considered abuse or neglect, which is what motivates social services to get involved. Cat

I'm assuming there's more history here than this one incident-- it seems so extreme to consider calling social services when (as Kate said) calling the parents or knocking on the door would probably take care of the situation. Or even saying to the girl kindly, "Hi Neighbor Girl! Maybe you should hop down, I'm worried you'll fall off onto the pavement and get hurt." Though it may be unwise, it's hardly abusive or neglectful to allow a child to play in the front of the house when the parents are home. Cat

The whole situation is such an unfortunate tangle: legally, ethically, culturally. I've not participated, but have read the FLDS discussions on this forum and others with interest because the issues are so complex that I appreciate the many views and the different thoughts presented. I appreciate intelligent discussion of complex issues in general. I learn so much. And perhaps a bit of voyeurism. I am fascinated by their way of life from a social-cultural standpoint. Cat

After all, financial glory is different for them than it is to us. The fun is in coming up with an idea and putting together the business. They may be a smashing success, or not, and either way they'll learn some valuable lessons about business. My ds (7) wanted to sell worms to people fishing at the park, so I helped him set up a worm wagon. He and his brother (5) sold worms and duck food. They made $3, and they were delighted. He's gung-ho to have a lemonade and cookie stand this summer. I love the origami/lemonade idea, and I think a stand is a capital idea. ;) Have fun! Cat

My first, before my first child was born. A sun on my ankle. My ex-boyfriend said to me, "You'll never really get a tattoo, so you might as well stop talking about getting one." I decided then and there that I'd get one-- not to prove him wrong, but to prove to myself that I was willing to choose to live my dreams instead of just wishing. My second, autumn leaves blowing in the wind across the back of my shoulder. Five leaves for five children. I love them both. You're never too old. To celebrate our 40th birthday year, a dear friend and I went together to get tattoos. The woman who did our tattoos said that she gets many women in their thirties and forties. Cat

Her house is neater. Her husband is kind, and can build or fix anything. She's very clear and consistent, and her children are have lovely manners and are well-behaved. She's serious and mindful and works hard. She plans her school day so that her children are done very early to allow them lots of free time. Her daughter just won the state gymnastics championship on the beam for her level. Her seven-year-old builds amazingly intricate structures with Legos and the like. My house is bigger. My husband is kind, and works from home, and cooks dinner and does dishes. I'm playful and flexible, and my children are creative and enthusiastic. I'm passionate and affectionate and love to try new things. I plan our school days with lots of projects and outings, the messier the better. My daughter was just in the newspaper for acting in a play with a cast made up entirely of children with autism. My seven-year-old is reading far above grade level (whatever that is supposed to mean). I'm not saying either of us are better, by the way. I was able to make this list because my sister and I had this conversation. :-) We grew up comparing ourselves to one another. One day we realized that we were still looking at one another's lives with envy and admiration. We've started counting our blessings and trying to learn from one another. I'm still madly jealous of her, though, so I guess I'll sigh right along with you and keep plugging away. ;) Cat

Well, what I should do, at any rate. In real life, I grump and whine and beat myself up horribly and eat too much ice cream. Then.... I focus on finding ways to be together that help us all to be successful, myself included. I drop everything and play with the kids, or we snuggle on the couch with books, or if I just need time to myself, I pop in a Bill Nye DVD and sit by myself for half an hour. If I need to, I say "I'm sorry." I figure, if nothing else, I am modeling for my children how one apologizes when one has been a horrid brat. (I'm speaking for myself, by the way. I have no way of knowing whether or not you've been a horrid brat. ;) ) Yesterday we packed it in and went to feed the ducks. I vowed to say "Yes" to everything that wasn't rude or dangerous. I called it a bird study, but it was really mommy-survival. :grouphug: We homeschool ("we" meaning my family) in part because it allows us to focus on our relationships with one another, even if that means dropping academics for a day and sharing the ice cream. Cat P.S. Admitting to ourselves that we're less than perfect and wanting to make things better is a hallmark of good mothers. Far worse to blame the children.

I don't ask how old people are before I befriend them because I don't think it matters. That said, I do find that typically the friends that I "click" with more easily are around my own age/life stage. (I'm 41.) Now that I think of it, I just now realized that in regards to one of my dearest friends, someone I've known for three years, I have NO idea how old she is. Cat

Eugene area. :-) Quack quack.

...phone conversations were usually short, most often invitations to play. As long as you're in the room while she makes a phone call (good family rule) there's not much harm in talking on the phone. It allows her to try this new thing with you there for protection and to set boundaries as needed. As for what they talk about...usually the same kinds of things they talk about in person: What's your favorite kind of ice cream?, What did you do today?, I have a cat named Blackie, Do you have brothers and sisters?, My birthday is in August, I love math. Kid talk. A play date at the park sounds like a great idea, since that's probably what the girls are really after anyway. :-) Now that I think of it, my girls' phone conversations are still short, and about birthdays, the cats, ice cream and arranging get-togethers. :D Cat

I don't have a lot of words of wisdom, but I do have two teenaged daughters. I do want to point out that your dd texted you to tell you--that says to me that it's not about getting away. She reached out to you. She's sending you a message, and part of that message is that she still needs you. In your shoes, *I* would...well, I'd be a complete basket case, first of all, but I would see if the two of us could sit down with the counselor ASAP. That will give you the opportunity to discuss all of these issues with a neutral party to facilitate. It sounds like a talk with older dd is in order too. Had she not stirred the pot, middle dd might not have reacted so strongly. One thing to remember is that as relationships change, even for the better, sometimes people will inadvertently try to pull things back into the old dysfunctional but familiar patterns. Keep strong, keep love and rebuilding as your focus, don't let yourself get pulled off your course. It sounds like you're on the road to repairing your relationships. As much as is humanly possible, give your girls grace and love. It sounds like they need it, and you too. :grouphug: Cat

My guess is that if her mom is depressed (possibly) and overwhelmed (probably) then she may not be setting clear boundaries at home, so the girl genuinely doesn't quite understand that you really mean it when you say "Time to go." When it is almost time for her to go, maybe you can create a goodbye routine for her? "It will be time to leave in ten minutes. Why don't you give everyone hugs and kisses, then say goodbye to dd and we will walk you to the door." We had a young neighbor who called us over and over and over and over. Every time, on the second phone call, I would pick up the phone and say, "Hello, K. We are here right now, but we are talking/getting ready to go/eating dinner. When you get our voice mail, will you please leave a message? I promise we'll call you back in 15 minutes/tomorrow/when we've got time." Then I made sure that someone always called her back when I said we would. Eventually she got the message (so to speak) and stopped calling repeatedly. And for your dd, I do think that it's all right to set aside play times in your home with other friends, and then for you to say to the other girl for your dd, "DD has a friend over right now. You're welcome to come play tomorrow/Wednesday/this afternoon (whatever works)." I don't know what to say about church and hovering, that's a hard one. We had young neighbors who struggled with boundaries, as did their parents. The girl was our dd's good friend. I vented away when they weren't there and tried my best to be welcoming and loving when they were. Now that the girl is older (16! Where did the time go???) she is welcome in our house any time, as she has become a pleasant, mannerly young lady who is a pleasure to have as a guest. :grouphug: It sounds as though you are open to treating her with love and patience, and bless you for that-- when she grows up she will likely remember how wonderful you have been to her, and the picture of stability and love she sees in your family. Cat

When my sister and I were 7 & 8, we announced to our mother that we were running away. She said, "Don't forget your toothbrushes.":seeya: We made it to the end of the looooong driveway, then we started crying and came back. She told us much later that she watched us walking all the way up the driveway, wondering what she was going to do next if we didn't turn around. When we headed back she rushed into the kitchen acting as though she'd been completely unconcerned. :lol: A year later we made an elaborate plan involving borrowing the neighbor's horse, buying bread and peanut butter at the store...oh, and candy...and riding the horse to Grandma & Grandpa's house. We wrote our plan in the dark after we'd gone to bed. My mom found it at some point and saved it in my baby book. Cat

Yes, we compost too. If you're up for it, composting offers opportunities for some great science discussions, lol! Honestly, if you've got decent soil, it is as easy as digging a hole and throwing in seeds. That's my style of gardening. Choose one project, or choose a few easy plants, and go. We got some beautiful sunflowers last year (you can see in my avatar). Each spring as we stick our seeds in the dirt, I find myself amazed at the miracle of growing things-- they just grow! :-) Cat

Go for it!! It is so much fun, and the garden really does give us many opportunities to do hands-on nature-science studies. We've just purchased Roots, Shoots, Buckets and Boots ourselves, so we've not yet completed any of the projects, but it looks delightful. We plan to plant a sunflower garden. I like that the book assumes you have no gardening experience at all, and lists what you'll need to to do prepare your soil. We have a garden space, but I've got a small corner in our yard that I think I'll give the boys so that they can start from scratch. I think you'll have a great time together. We've been ditching our afternoon studies in favor of preparing the garden, and it's been wonderful. There's nothing better than digging in the dirt all afternoon. Cat Gardening at Poohsticks

Magnifying glass, measuring tape, magnets. That kind of thing. I made a Flying Paper box for my 5 y.o.: http://myfunnybunch.blogspot.com/2008/01/activity-box-flying-paper.html Right now we have a measurements box with a balance scale, measuring tapes, and so forth and my boys all love it. Cat

Words of advice: Pick one problem to work on....one subject that's a stickler or one habit that's causing problems. Work on that. Your son is old enough to be a part of the process-- sit down with him at a time when you're not butting heads and say, "What's up? I want to help. How can we solve this?" Even if he hasn't got a single useful practical idea, he'll know that you want to work with him. During work time, try to ask before he starts to melt: "What's up? How can I help?" With my two dawdlers, I started saying, "I can see that you're frustrated. Let's set this aside and come back to it when you're done with xyz." Sometimes that solves the problem right there, just as it does when I get a brain freeze and need some time to unlock. If the child is sulking or not paying attention, I give him/her a time limit, and then we move on-- and that child has to finish the work later on his or her own time. I try my best to be matter-of-fact rather than punitive. It is a natural consequence of not using your time wisely. I have a child who gets stuck sometimes, asking me to solve a problem he has demonstrated the ability to solve. We make a list together of "solving strategies" or ways to find answers. I refer him to the list rather than telling him the answer. Win-win...I'm not frustrated by his insistence that I tell him the answer, and he feels helped and feels the sense of accomplishment from figuring it out on his own. Words of encouragement: I admire your willingness to look at this problem and find ways to make things work better for both of you. Really, the first step is saying to yourself, "This isn't working. What now?" Be patient with yourself and him-- when I get to that point I feel lost for a little while, then ideas start coming to mind, little ones and big ones. You'll find things that work for both of you. You might need a big change. Or you might not hit a big "Aha!" moment that solves everything, but you'll find ways to fill in the gaps and support your child. Either way, things will come together until the day you think back and say to your self, "I remember when we used to battle our way through the morning. That hasn't happened for a long time." :-) :grouphug: Cat

I grew up without television. Given my druthers I'd haul the tv to the curb. My dh, otoh, loves television so it has stayed, lol. He's way smarter than I am, too. I liken watching telelvision to eating sweets. Unlimited candy, bad. A little candy or a piece of pie or a chocolate chip cookie once in a while, lovely. Getting rid of the television is a perfectly reasonable option, by the way, just as some families choose to completely eliminate sweets. But it sounds like you've already set limits that work for your family: You limit the types of shows, you occasionally watch movies as a family, you limit the amount of time they watch. And presumably you're filling their brains with healthy fare during the times they're not watching. If what you're doing works for you, keep it up. :) Cat

There's a Suzuki violin program in our town that takes children at age 4. We've been at the music hall on lesson day for other reasons and the teeny guys with their little violins are just darling. I started my each of my piano boys in Suzuki piano lessons at age 4 and they are thriving because they have a wonderful teacher who teaches at their pace and only places as much demand on them as they can handle. If you can find a violin program or experienced teacher that will teach your child and you think he's ready, then go for it! I asked to observe a lesson to get a feel for the teacher's style before we committed. If that's an option it might give you an idea whether or not the program you're considering will be a good fit. If you start a child in any kind of music lessons at a young age be prepared to be very involved. :) (If you were planning on teaching them an instrument yourself, it sounds as though you're inclined to be involved anyway.) Cat

on our way back home from Baker City to Eugene. There was snow in the foothills all along the drive home. We kind of expect to see a little snow east of the mountains, but not this side. Beautiful, but....it's SPRING!!!! Cat

Developmentally 5 y.o.'s are still all over the map. It steams me beyond belief when such young children are already judged as being "behind" when they don't meet certain criteria. It's kindergarten! IMO, it's not developmentally appropriate to be judging a child's academic performances at such a young age. The teacher's expectations are unreasonable. OTOH, I think your suggestion of letting him copy the words is perfectly reasonable. Copywork teaches children all of the things the teacher expects the children to learn-- spelling a word or spacing a sentence correctly the first time with a prompt is far better practice, especially for a beginner, than practicing the skill incorrectly and having to correct a mistake. And, if it's any help, my now 7 y.o. did not particularly enjoy or excel at writing or drawing at 5 or 6. I asked him to copy a few words now and then. I let him dictate his words to me. As time passed I insisted that he do a little more on his own, but tried to judge how much might be too much. When he said, "I can't," I said, "It doesn't have to be perfect. Try your best." This year, after his 7th birthday, it suddenly "clicked." His fine motor skills took a leap. Now he has nice handwriting and feels much more confident about his drawing. I am so glad that I waited patiently and said, "Just do your best" instead of "It's not neat enough." (And, to address your dh's concerns, my guy was and is a pretty sharp cookie, despite his not-so-hot handwriting. ;) ) Cat

Hands down, THE favorite this year for everyone. My review here: http://myfunnybunch.blogspot.com/2008/03/swallows-and-amazons.html Also: The Hobbit Where the Red Fern Grows Winnie the Pooh (of course!) Peter Pan Racketty-Packetty House

'cause we're in the same boat.:eek: It's normal. Today, I reminded myself several times that my lovely children were not born perfect. I came up with some plans to deal with these exact behaviors. Hitting/pushing/name-calling: The offender clearly cannot play appropriately with others. That child must sit on his bed or play alone inside. Attitudes: Try, try again. They must practice an appropriate response until they get it "right". But here's the real key that we hit upon, the one that's made all the difference: Praise, reward and teaching. I set up a quarter jar. When I see any behavior I'd like to encourage-- unexpected kindness, cheerful obedience, staying on task, working things out politely, helpfulness-- I drop a quarter in the jar, making sure to describe specifically the behaviors I saw. When there are enough quarters we go for ice cream or to the bookstore. If we're having a bad day, I really search for those opportunities to praise and reward and describe the behaviors that I want to encourage. And we've started talking a lot about attitudes of obedience, leadership, and living a life of love and good cheer. I really emphasize that we all have feelings, but we can often make choices about our responses. We talk about ways to be good leaders and helpers to one another. I remember feeling as a child that adults really were a separate world in some ways. The key for us has been working on instilling attitudes and behaviors that carry over into that world as much as possible. Of course my children aren't perfect...but it's getting better little by little. I don't think it's about a specific strategy, like a quarter jar or a smiley-face chart or talks about "having a good attitude", by the way. What's made the biggest difference for us has been moving the emphasis from conqequences-only to focusing on teaching, on meaningful praise ("I know you've been working hard at staying on task and I noticed that you were successful while doing your math" as opposed to "Good job!"), and on guidance as our primary interventions. Cat

My boys are 7,5,3. Toys that appeal to a broader age range, the toys that are pulled off the shelf most often: Counting/weighted bears Wooden USA puzzle Ravensberger games Flying paper activity box (I made it myself.) Balance scale Cuisenaire rods A geoboard we made ourselves Memory game Our favorite catalogs are Magic Cabin and Hearthsong. Favorite place to browse, the teacher supply store.

Setting up an afternoon game or activity time, something for the two of you to do together. Legos, an art project, fun experiments, building a fort, whatever tickles his fancy. My boys tend to get rambunctious and/or bored in the late afternoon, so I started project time. They can choose to read quietly on their beds, or they can do a quiet activity (puzzles, drawing, Legos), or they can do the afternoon activity with me. I try to make the activities a little more special, something they might not get to do on their own, like painting. Today we made dragon puppets for Chinese New Year. A little structure in the middle of the afternoon seems to help. On occasion, if I'm wiped out or very busy, I will put on a half-hour educational show for a treat, only on the condition that they not beg for more time or ask to watch a show every day. If he needs a little social time, can you try to schedule more play time with a friend or two? My ds, also 7, is a screen addict as well, so I completely get the idea that your guy needs to take a break because of the way it's affecting his attitude. I think that's a reasonable decision. Have you offered him a possible ending to this no screen time, like "We'll try again in three months/when you're eight/when you have done xyz"? Having a more concrete definition of when/how/if this will end may help. My last thought: It sounds like it's been less than a week. He's having to learn new habits and ways to entertain himself, so it may take some time. Cat