I need your help. My newly-turned-8 yr.old, 2nd grade son just completed week 4, day 4 of WWE 2 workbook (we started in level 2 b/c he's in 2nd grade). Usually when I ask him the questions that come after the reading passage, he either answers incorrectly, guesses, or simply says he doesn't know. I have to backtrack into the passage again and re-read to him the sentences or paragraph that the answer is in, and then it's like pulling teeth to get him to repeat it in a full sentence. He becomes so frustrated that he just doesn't even want to continue on with it - he sits there slumping, pouting, banging his head (not enough to hurt himself) against the back of the chair, etc. This from my bright son who has always been a fast learner. He'd love it if I would accept "Ya, that, what you just read. That's my answer." as his answer. Today's focus was on trying to find the central idea. He was lost. I was lost as to how to further help him. I have printed out your article titled "Tips for Narration", and I have tried modeling for him what I'm looking for. Dictation is very difficult for him. He wants to begin writing as I talk and detests the rule that he must repeat the sentence to me before writing. I see the importance of it, so I insist that he cooperates. However, today I had to dictate the single sentence 5 times for him to get it. Part of this was because I stop his memory 'flow' to correct misspelled words immediately. Today was the first time I allowed him to review the dictation first for the purpose of knowing how to spell unfamiliar words. I don't think he reviewed very well. His narration (which wasn't given all at once, I had to keep asking more questions to pull it out of him) was this: "One time there was a guy named Dr. Dolittle. The parrot knows that Jip can talk with his ears, nose, feet, and tail." That was it. That's all he could give, after much questioning, reminding, prodding, etc. So I finally just read to him all the example sentences on page 20 to give him an idea of what I had been looking for. Then I used the single-sentence narration example from page 20 in the workbook for his dictation. My concern is this: narration and dictation seem to be like this for him about 90% of the time (we do it for SOTW too). It seems like since he isn't 'getting it', it will only become harder for him if I just move on to the next lesson. Should I back up and do WWE level 1 with him even though he'll technically be a 3rd grader this fall? I apologize for being so long-winded. I agree completely w/ your ideas on writing, and *I* like WWE, but I really need some advice on how to get past this roadblock with my son. Thanks!

Well there's nothing I'm doing cartwheels over, but here's what I like... Horizons Math: after using it and switching to others in previous years, then back to it this year, then researching other curric's in depth mid-year, I'm stuck on Horizons for its' simple scope & sequence. If you're a "tweaker" like me, there is plenty of room in Horizons to add hands-on activities, living math books, or cross out problems that your child has mastered and you consider "extra", add supplements like word problems from Singapore or whatever you please. I like the simple but solid & effective track it keeps them on: K- addition, 1st- subtraction, 2nd - multiplication, 3rd - division, etc. Of course all the extra stuff is in there too - geometry, fractions, exponents, etc. FLL: Short, simple, and you get to snuggle while doing grammar that they retain. Abeka Writing With Phonics K and 2 for penmanship, student books only (though I've taught this out of their TM's before), have been great for my boys this year. They both have wonderful handwriting and my 2nd grader used the manuscript-to-cursive 2 book this year with ease. So good that we may not have to use an official penmanship program again until my youngest transitions to cursive in 2nd! OPGTTR: SOOoo effective yet so simple in its approach. Like Abeka phonics based reading w/o all the bells & whistles, plus you get to snuggle during this too! (Can you tell I like to snuggle my little'uns?)

Grammar: FLL 3 Composition: WWE (1? 2? 3? currently in 2 and getting a good narration is like pulling teeth. Don't even ask how dictation goes around here.) Reading: my own made-up reading list - a mishmash of other reading lists Spelling: AAS Math: Horizons 3 + our own math games and hands-on activities Bible: continue in our children's Bible and Keys for Kids Penmanship: only if he can't yet write cursive for other subjects - if he can, then I will require neat cursive writing for some and consider that penmanship. If not, either Abeka Writing w/ Phonics 3 or my own: passages from Scripture, history, and science to trace/copy in cursive. PE: TKD, soccer, Homeschool Family Fitness Logic: Mindbenders, Logic Liftoff, games & fun stuff Latin: looking @ the one Logos School uses... I think it's called Latin Primer? Music: guitar lessons? Themes to Remember? Classical Kids Collection? Science: Earth & Space Science using one of these: R.E.A.L., RS4K, God's Design Series, Apologia, TOPS learning, Christian Kids Explore... research for this is pending. :D Nature Walks/journaling: using Comstock's (sp?) book History: THE BIGGIE THAT COULD CHANGE IT ALL. Currenlty on course to move onto SOTW 2 +AG for 3rd gr., but have been highly distracted and tempted by SL, TOG, and MFW, with a light draw to VP. Some of these, if chosen, could change the choices for other subjects above completely. :tongue_smilie:

I too am looking at MFW & TOG right now and am wondering if you feel it is any easier or less rigorous for the student than TOG? I've grasped from people's posts that it's easier, but have seen a few say it's easier for MOM (more evident than I ever realized by your #15 above); yet still rigorous for the student. Is this correct? Or does one require more of the student? :lurk5:

I know quite a few people here in the interior that use it. One gal has teenage boys, hs'ed only w/ SL, who still have voracious appetites for learning - they love it. SL doesn't follow a nice, neat 4-yr. history cycle, but it's chronological in within different bounds, as someone above stated. If you peruse their site you can find an article stating why they don't do history in a 4-yr. chronological cycle. They do have reasons for they way they do things. Their science sort of does a spiral thing, returning to different parts of earth sci., biology, zoology, chemistry, etc. each year. It looks like it would feel less monotonous. If you use their entire curriculum, their LA uses copywork, narration, & dictation which fit w/ the classical approach (is that classical? or just WTM?). SL, TOG, and MFW have all tempted me with their integrated subjects, where history or literature reading material is woven into writing assignments, etc. I yearn to simplify. :tongue_smilie: Here's the deal on SL in a nutshell: If the thought of spending more time sitting on your butt reading books snuggled up to your kids than on any other subject sounds great, then SL is for you! Sounds good to me. :lol:

You should check out Draw Today and Paint Today. They are programs SL recommends for 6th grade and core 100, although since they are not SL publications you could buy them elsewhere if you choose. Those look good for your dc's ages. I've been wanting to get Drawing With Children for my K'er and 2nd grader, but since I haven't seen it I can't comment on whether it may seem babyish to older dc or not. It looks really good and is worth checking out.

I'm referring to the Logos Classical School in Moscow, Idaho. I watched the CBN segment on it on TV and just looked it up online. They have things available for homeschoolers such as materials, recommendations, schedules, scope & sequence, etc. Have any of you used anything from them (not just materials, but method, etc.)? I'd love to hear anything anyone has to share! :bigear: I should mention a few materials they use so people don't have to run over to their site to see what I'm talking about: Drawing With Children - St. Martin's Press (doesn't SWV rec. this also?), Imitation in Writing, Writing Trails, The Grammar of Spelling, and Latin Primer. They make some of their own Reading Comp. Guides and other materials.

SWB really warned not to teach SOTW to kids K-3rd? How did I miss this? Where did she say this? We're doing Ancients this year, with a K'er and a 2nd grader. It's just a light introduction for my K'er, I don't know how much he really retains. My 2nd grader retains some... but not like he would if I'd waited until 4th grade. I know history has wars, but I don't like reading all the gore to them (like when Shamshi-Adad? - not sure - put people's heads on stakes around the city to remind people to obey his laws, for ex.).

It looks like a wonderful list to me! I don't know how well a 2 or 3 year old would understand some of the content, but I read The Complete Works of Beatrix Potter to my sons, who were 7 & just-turned-5, last summer. I've read them some Aesop, Charles Dickens, and now we're stuck on Oz books b/c they like them so much and we have to stop and discuss some parts. Whenever I read aloud a word I know they don't know yet, I simply tell them what it means.

:iagree:

You're not the only one! I went through a "should we switch to SL?" phase too, pretty intensely, thinking it would be easier b/c it's all planned out. Some wise words from people on this forum helped me to simplify and narrow things down for next year. I'd hate equally to waste the time and the money if I started SL and didn't like it or it didn't work for us. Better to stay the course we're on - you know, don't fix what isn't broken.

Some more about this... I both agree and disagree here. I think feeling connected and not alone is important, as homeschooling by nature can become overwhelming at times. As I've 'merged' into our homeschooling life, I've naturally created friendships with people I see often - at homeschool co-op, homeschool PE, Awanas, etc. It's easy to get together with these friends just before or after one of our mutually scheduled activities, like going to the sledding hill after co-op for ex. It's hard when you're connected to people who's paths you don't regularly cross. I can't emphasize enough though the importance of a friend or network of support who can empathize about homeschooling issues. Or maybe a good friend who may not totally understand but cares so much they'll listen anyhow. On the other hand, you can't say yes to everything and expect to get school and other 'inside the home' things done. I've had to cut some things out because I didn't realize I had overextended myself and my kids. I had to reduce some of their extracurriculars and start really thinking twice before saying "yes". Even to some things that I want to say "yes" to. I completely ditto the "chapters of life" idea. I figure right now my focus is my kids. I will have plenty of time for my own stuff later. I plan to go back to college, read TONS, etc. once they're gone. They're only little once. Do take some time for yourself, and for yourself & dh. The kids will remember the fun or interesting times they had with Mommy, not whether the dishes were done. :D Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

I knew I should have ordered the new edition for the extra bits of info like this! He does FLL 2 as well, and he does all the written work. I don't have the current TWTM edition, so I am curious to know if WWE is recommended in addition to the ind. reading & history writing? OhElizabeth, that means alot to me coming from you! :) Arcara, that's a good idea to help ease the transition. The oral history summaries I ask my 2nd grader for are after a set of questions from the SOTW AG which help sum up the main points. Then I ask him to tell me something in just a few sentences. I didn't mean to make it sound like I'm having him do something pages upon pages long. :tongue_smilie: If only, right?

Here's my 2nd grade schedule: Reading happens in some form (his reading or read-alouds) everyday here, no matter what, even on Christmas. I read a chapter from a book to my kids before bed every night also. Sometimes those books connect w/ school, sometimes not. Math, Penmanship (either workbook or letters to friends/relatives), Grammar, Reading, practice Spanish phrase of the week and review old ones, Spelling & PE are all daily, M-F. Bible & WWE are 4x a week, M-Th. History is 3x a week, M-W. Science is scheduled for 2x a week, Th-F, but always ends up spilling over into the weekend. Soccer is also 2x per week. Art, TKD, Geography, recess at thier sister's school on the playground w/ same-age friends, and Awanas are all 1x per week. Homeschool co-op and homeschool PE at the gymnastics place are 1x every other week. ...and I am one very tired "car-schooler". We will not be taking on as many outside activities at once anymore! We had to drop drum lessons and reduce TKD to once a week.

I've used Saxon 2 and this year am using Horizons K for the second go-around w/ my K'er and Horizons 2 w/ my 2nd grader. From all of my math research, here's what I can share: Abeka starts out very slow in the beginning (K) but really picks up the pace in 1st, and by 3rd grade there's long division in the 1st Qtr. of the book. It's been around a long time and has worked well for many. Saxon is another good, strong program and works well for many, incl. the ps system in CA, if I've got my facts straight. It frustrated my son who is naturally "mathy" and learns math w/ ease. We were doing Saxon 2 in the last half of 1st grade last year and he continually complained of it being "too easy" although level 2 is where he placed on their online placement test. If your dc picks math up quickly and only misses 1 problem required to be in the next level up in Saxon, just go ahead to the next level. There is so so so much built-in review that it won't hurt. I have a dear friend who uses Saxon w/ her ds who has about had it with that program. Too much repetition for him. Others love it. Just depends on you and your dc. Horizons seems to me to be a happy medium, if you're OK not having a completely scripted TM for K. It's a spiral approach with review as well. I think it works well for us b/c I like to tweak and add other things and do our own thing partly anyhow. The "loose" TM allows for that. The 2nd grade TM has much more instruction than K, and I've glanced at some higher-elementary grade Horizons math student books, and it looks like they have a large section of instruction right there in the student book, sort of like Saxon (I saw it from a distance, so didn't get to actually read it). In 2nd it does call for flash-card review and if you use the worksheets and speed drills provided in the TM's, it's a great program. It does things "in order" rather than at a slower pace all at once which is what Saxon feels like to me. They learn addition before subtraction, multiplication before division. So while Saxon 2 has both multiplication and division, they only go up through 5 and maybe they include 10's, I've forgotten. Horizons has them learn all their multiplication first then introduces division in 3rd grade. In the end the outcome is, on a basic level, almost the same. You just have to pick which path (curriculum) is right for you. To get a deeper glimpse of Horizons, this year in 2nd grade my ds is doing columns of 3-digit addition, multiplication 1-10 and I'm adding 11's and 12's on our own, fractions, large subtraction w/ borrowing, measurements of time/liquid/solid... and by the end of 2nd grade will have done perimeter, Roman numerals, ratios, geometric solids, more exact time & temp, more word problems using maps, pre-alg. equations w/o using 'guessing' but really learning the operations for something simple like n-9=15, graphing, intersecting points on a graph, lines (symmetrical...) and probably more but I'm just flipping through his book here. My K'er is doing place value right now w/ double digit over single-digit addition. BUT... I do my own thing with it. I use a lot of manipulatives and make sure they practice flashcards daily. Starting in K we do geometric solids and place value w/ manipulatives and base-ten units/rods/boards/cubes. For learning fractions I have Abeka's felt fraction set. I have them tell time to the minute and exact temp in K, although that's not called for in the books. I use a Saxon 3 TM that was given to us for the number patterns, daily word problems, etc. I also have the Saxon 2 meeting book that I use for practicing days of the week and months of the year w/ my K'er, and it has a weather/calendar graph that we make by reading the temp daily. Sometimes I'll toss a math page from a different curriculum at them just to see if they really "get it" or if they've become too acustomed to only one way of doing things. I'd love to add more word problems, so if I could afford it I would add Singapore's EWP but I think I wouldn't have them do a full page of them daily. I don't want to overwhelm them. If I could start all over again, I'd order some Singapore math to review before my oldest started K. It sounds that good - I'd just have to see it and look through it to decide first. We're already this far down the path we started on, so no sense in changing what works fine for us. Hopefully something in the midst of all my babbling can help! :D

Melissa, looking at your sig. line, I have to ask if you use TOG for just History & Bible? I've been wondering if that's possible to do. Does TOG let you pick and choose which TOG subjects to use and which to substitute other things for, like SL does now when ordering?

The WT/WTM writing recommendations/WWE discussion has made me nervous as to whether I'm "doing it right", WWE 2 that is. It's supposed to take the place of all the copywork, narration, and dictation that WTM says to do for history, science, etc., right? We use the WWE 2 workbook, but I own & have read the text as well. That's all we do for writing skills instruction. Physical writing for all other things like penmanship/math/etc. is not what I'm referring to, to clarify. I still ask comprehension questions from the SOTW AG and then ask for an oral summary, but I write it down for both of my sons. Sometimes I have them do some copywork in history - bits of relevant info not included in the SOTW chapter (thank you Jessica/Trivium Academy!). I've been floating along thinking WWE takes care of all necessary writing skill instruction and that we don't need to bother with doing those things in other subjects. Eeek. Have I got it wrong? Am I supposed to be stretching those WWE skills across other subjects in addition to the WWE workbook? My son using WWE 2 is in 2nd gr. :bigear:

In case the OP doesn't have the older version of WTM, SWB recommends IEW and Writing Strands as writing skills instruction courses. That was pre-WWE, of course. This discussion has made me nervous as to whether I'm "doing it right", WWE 2 that is, but I'll start a new thread so as not to hi-jack. :)

In short, here's what we've been doing this year for K: Math: Horizons K + lots of hands-on activities using manipulatives and games Phonics/Reading: OPGTTR + Bob Books and other little phonics readers I had around, plus good lit. for bedtime stories Penmanship: Abeka Writing w/ Phonics K Bible: Children's Illustrated Bible, Keys for Kids, Awanas, Hymns/Scripture songs History: SOTW 1 w/ AG Science: Life Science ala WTM Art: Atelier Spanish: introduce new phrase or set of words ea. week Music: Drum lessons PE: Tae Kwon Do, Soccer, and Homeschool PE at a gymnastics place 2x per month Co-op just for fun, to see our friends :) I keep the History requirements looser for my K'er than for my 2nd grader. I'm the same way w/ science for him, but he loves it. We don't do it all everyday of course, this is all over the course of a full calendar year.

Do any of you know of any free way to trace ancestry and countries of heritage? Whenever I try to look up geneology online, the sites always charge for their info. I'd love to know more and share it with my dc whether we do it as part of school or not.

In addition to many mentioned above, some of my faves are www.torrid.com, www.kiyonna.com, and there's a women's plus-sz online fashion directory with MANY links and coupon codes at www.beautypluspower.com . Happy Shopping!

I am so very sorry for all the loss and heartache posted here. (((hugs))) It's easy to go along in life not thinking much about it when it hasn't taken any of the people in my little circle. My grandfather died of malignant melanoma, but I was a baby and didn't know him. My grandmother died of brain cancer, but she was very old so her death, while sad, wasn't shocking. I know a homeschool mom IRL who's fought it but lived, an aunt who died of it before I was even born, and another homeschool mom online who's fighting it. You'd think after all that, I'd live more conscienciously in direct regard to cancer. In all of my natural, organic living, 'weight loss the healthy way' research over the years (so I can't look up all the books, people, places I learned it all from - that would take a ton of research in itself), there are some things that I've come away with. To keep it short and brief I'll just list them: -Eat & live as organic and chemical-free as possible. If you can't afford to, there are recipes for making your own less-harsh household cleaners, personal care products, and lists of which produce items are *the* ones to buy organic if you can't afford to buy it all that way. Growing your own food could be an option. -Garlic, onion, and the other "pungent" veg's have recently been reported to have cancer-fighting properties. Heard that one on mainstream news w/in the last month. Ditto the resveratol/grape juice info. someone posted above. -Don't buy things with these on the label: hydrogenated, partially hydrogenated, nitrite, nitrate, aspartame, saccharin, artificial dyes, paraben or any word ending with paraben (to include cosmetics & personal care items). -Another recent report on mainstream TV news said that everyday items we use like shampoo have tested positive for trace amounts of ?? (forgot what, but I was apalled at the things they were - they were known carcinogens and poisons). I know that seems pretty unhelpful but maybe it could be looked up. I don't know if the organic market is safe from this or if figuring out how to just make our own stuff is the answer. -Some seeds, grains, and brown rice - the oils in them can go bad after some time and actually become carcinogenic. My health-nut friend just told me that a few weeks ago. I bet there's charts or lists online that tell how to properly store things & how long they're good for. My mom's rule of "if it doesn't smell bad or look bad, it must not have gone bad yet" apparently isn't as true as I thought. I have brown rice from 2000 that needs tossed. -A couple good books I've read that contain some helpful info are The Great American Detox Diet by Alex Jamieson (she also has a site, healthychefalex) and The Hundred-Year Lie; How to Protect Yourself from the Chemicals That Are Destroying Your Health by Randall Fitzgerald. Wish I could be more helpful but I still fall into the medically illiterate category when it comes to cancer.

A little late to the party here, but for now (haha) my plans for 1st grade next year are: FLL 1, WWE 1 - copywork/narration & poetry memorization are included in these Reading: read-alouds w/ him reading out loud some from a custom list I've yet to make Reading/Phonics: finish up OPGTTR, easy readers & beginners books from list above AAS Horizons Math 1 SOTW 2 w/ AG (subject to change or to be supplemented by VP, SL, CHOW...) Earth & Space Science a la WTM, w/ some help from an unchosen curriculum (R.E.A.L., God's Design, RS4K, Apologia, and others are on the list to look at) Bible & Keys for Kids Abeka Penmanship grade 1, manuscript (maybe... I could combine penmanship w/ copywork from other subjects and not have this separate subject) Foriegn Language? Spanish, French or Latin... maybe, maybe not Atelier Art Awanas TaeKwonDo Soccer Outdoor recess daily, with the hope to include some nature study Homeschool PE at a Gymnastics studio (more fun than actual instruction), 2x/month Music - ? This *will* be filled in with something, I just don't know what yet. Calvert Discoveries in Music if not instrument lessons or a choir-type activity. Homeschool Club (used to be a co-op, now we just have "focus days" and field trips together 2x/month) Yikes, that looks like a lot for my baby when it's all written out! There may be some combining and streamlining yet to happen. My goal for this homeschooling adventure is to learn to streamline and simplify, to leave more time for fun, to follow whims and sparks of interest, and rabbit trails (literally and figuratively).

I'm not much help since I haven't done mine either, but, I can tell you that everyone I know that uses it and loves it uses the HST Plus version, not the basic one. Maybe there really is that big of a difference? All the data input just seems like a sponge on my time, I can jot things down the old fashioned way in a notebook as we go along throughout the day much easier.

"Dog Land" is the imaginary planet? state? place? that my boys call the place that their stuffed animals live, mostly dogs, but some whales, a rabbit, a chick, and an alligator. The "dogs" have had elections with elaborate handwritten ballots and campaign posters that I find strewn across the house. I think it's cute and sweet when I find "Sandy" or "Glowy" or "ThunderWhale's" campaign signs with things my boys have written: "I will make the taxes go down. I will make our army strong. I will make a missionary job. I will make our land strong. I will make a better Dr." They write out invitations, have court hearings (which are quite amusing), weddings, codes of law, etc. for their many little characters. Ahhh... the innocence.