Mwahahahaha! :tongue_smilie:

Exactly. Like I said, I'm just dreaming - I've wanted those particular shelves for years, but it's become more apparent that there will never be a good time to spend $2,000+ on a wall system. I could build one myself for less than that! If only all that plywood would even fit in my house! lol ETA: thanks for the tips on Co. Kids, IKEA (I wonder what they charge to ship to Alaska?), and Craigslist!

All of them, or any one of them would help. *sigh* Just dreaming. :tongue_smilie: That is all.

Lol, before reading more of the thread I thought Pam was talking about midwifery!

Thanks for the suggestions, Merry! Our copies of AAS have been shelved since spring and I had forgotten all about the dictation and other aspects that I liked. Since we already own levels 1 & 2 I may as well put them to use (and since I have NO idea where on earth my reciept for it went, that was so long ago). My littlest one used to look on when we were doing AAS 1 and say he wanted to "play letters" too. We'll play it by ear after level 2. My ds8 has been misspelling things left and right this year, and I really feel it's because I haven't challenged him in this subject. Time to get to it.

Horizons has speed drills but instead of it being in a speed drill/test book, there are masters in the back of the teacher's guide to copy (or you can order the worksheets - which include the speed drills - already copied off for your convenience). I've used both, and I really love both. I grew up w/ Abeka math so I'm a little biased toward it. I use Horizons w/ my sons right now though b/c it's what fits my older ds best (and why try to do 2 different math programs?). If you study the overall scope of both of them side-by-side K-6, they are both very good programs. Abeka's teacher instructions are very detailed, as Carmen said. That's not a bad thing at all - they give games, they tell when to practice which math facts for memorization/review, etc. You do have to use Abeka's items w/ their program b/c instead of saying "Get out these flashcards: 2+3, 3+4, etc." they say "Get out flashcard #'s 45, 76, 87, etc." b/c their materials are numbered. That can make the program a little more spendy than it initially looks when reviewing the cost of just the student & teacher books. In comparison to Horizons & the hands-on materials many people use for Horizons (SL sells an all-in-1 kit for this) it's not more expensive than Horizons. You do use the materials for both programs for many years though, so that justifies the cost. I was just going over this same question today - Horizons vs. Abeka. Funny, that bug must be going around. ;) With EITHER of these, you would need to add in your own conceptual/mental math component. I do that on my own - I just teach my kids to "find the 10's" in problems and re-group problems in order to solve them more efficiently. This in addition to the old fashioned drill & memorization built into the program. Horizons has a little more geometry by 2nd & 3rd grade than Abeka, but Abeka introduces division in 2nd where Horizons doesn't until 3rd. You can simply do on your own what Singapore math does; introduce the inverse relationship between the operations in the first place (when teaching 1+1=2, teach 2-1=1, etc.) Something I really like about Abeka is the logical, sequential order in which they introduce "fact families". They do introduce things in order in Horizons, but I can't put my finger on why it seems more clear-cut to the teacher in Abeka. I can remember copying those fact families in Abeka and realizing the many interwoven neat things about them: how the answers sometimes go in order from 1 through the end number, knowing ALL the addition equations that equal any given number 1-18, etc. I didn't, however, ever learn to regroup numbers within a problem (like 'finding the 10's') until I heard of it as an adult. ETA: Abeka also looks stronger in doing operations with money - this is 3rd grade Abeka compared w/ 3rd grade horizons. Abeka has 4-digit mult. and div. by the end of 3rd where Horizons only has 3-digit mult. & div. I'm sure just like when Horizons introduces div., it evens out by the beginning of the next grade. I'm trying to remember all the differences I just went through w/ my DH. I have both of these on my shelf, (Abeka from when my dd was in 3rd) and was comparing them today. Feel free to PM me if you want me to look up anything specific in both of them. LadyA, if you're OK w/o a more traditional math program, it sounds like Singapore + some fact drill/review (flashcards, speed drills, wrapups, or whatever fits your kids) fits what you described. Sorry, I guess I'm longwinded tonight. :) Hope something I blabbered out here helps!

Blessedmom, when you say practice, what type of practice? Just keeping a personal list of misspelled words for ea. child and practicing those? Thanks!

A few local friends of mine use WP so I had a heads-up about their shipping problems. That's why I ordered all of my AS1 books myself from Amazon and only the WP exclusives + 2 books I couldn't find on Amazon from WP. I'll be placing my AS2 order for next year in full from WP (to save a few bucks and my time as well) by Feb. or March at the latest. There are people who love their programs so much that they just suck it up and continue using it despite that. It's a shame - with such a loyal customer base they really should find a way to carry book packages that they keep in stock like SL or other book-package programs. When I had to call about the items I ordered from WP, the people there were very accomodating & nice. I received them via Priority mail after calling. Also, before I ordered from WP & still had some final questions, they responded to my emails w/in 2 days tops. Wonderful customer service, just some weird shipping practices. I hope the co. grows enough for them to become in control of the variabes that cause it.

Yes... parts of it are intriguing to me. We've slowed math down w/ ds8 for the time being to focus on math fact memorization (I want instant recall! Is that too much to ask? :001_huh::lol:). I've got some questions: 1. Do you really not start 2nd grade materials until age 9? I assume ideally your plan would be started at age 4 or 5, so that Year 4 would happen when "2nd" or "3rd grade" normally does. You mention doing Saxon 5/4 directly after year 4, so that means math is not at 2nd grade level. Please elaborate. :) If I ever had the guts to drop everything else & do this, I'd feel like it's too late; my kids are already to old to stop everything and start something like this. My oldest son is 8 - that puts him at 12 years old once he has finished Year 4. I assume you do not mean for this to be started in the middle. Plus, what about history? Science? Grammar? I don't know if I could let go. :D 2. When you are teaching just the math facts, no math books, do you teach or show the kids what those facts mean or represent? It's not all just lists of numbers & operations w/ rote memorization, or is it? 3. When they start into Saxon 5/4 (or something equivalent) after Year 4, do you find that you have to spend extra time explaining some of the peripheral concepts usually taught in the earlier years? Such as measurements, time, money (I suspect those 3 would have to be taught to some extent just for regular everyday life), pre-algebra concepts (ex. 3 + n = 12), place value, ordinal numbers, geometry, fractions, decimals, graphs, area, perimeter, volume, ratio, etc. All those types of things don't take up tons of extra time in 5/4 since the child has only been taught basic facts? Thanks, and I hope I don't come across as snarky. This idea really does interest me but I want to know more about how it pans out when the kids are older. Oh, and sorry to the OP for the hi-jack.

:iagree:My oldest ds started Saxon 2 when I pulled him out of ps at semester in 1st grade. I should've put him in Part 2 of the student book or Saxon 3 (he missed only 1 problem more than he should have on the grade level evalution). Anyhow - we didn't like it. It moved too slow; at a snail's pace; having waaaay too much repetition (which made it seem like busywork) for my ds. I switched him to Horizons in 2nd grade and we're still happy with it. Horizons has speed drills, flash card work, and review much like my beloved Abeka math (that I grew up on), but it just fits my sons better.

I'm beginning to have mixed feelings about AAS. I got levels 1 & 2 last school year (winter/spring '09) to use w/ my then 2nd grade son. I started level 1 thinking he needs to get familiar w/ the program. It was so painfully easy for him that after awhile, he hated it. He loved it at first - mostly the hands-on aspect of the tiles and not having to write out spelling lists, but that wore off. I planned on chugging along w/ it this year in 3rd grade, doing a Step ea. day or every other day until we hit a point where we need to slow down. We haven't started spelling yet for this year. I haven't taken it out b/c I know the resistance I will meet from him. To make it better for him, I need to go through and eliminate the "painfully easy" parts for him until it gets harder. I dunno. It seemed really great at the time - I like that it teaches phonograms and ALL the sounds each one can make, and the syllable rules. I have it, so I'll use it with him, but faster so it doesn't "hurt" as much. I'm hoping to get through 3 or 4 levels w/ him this year, but we'll see. I've looked at Sequential Spelling since then & it looks OK. When I decided on AAS, I was trying to find something to replace the detailed spelling/phonics rules in Abeka LA, since I really like the other LA components I'm using & didn't want to switch those (Abeka's spelling/phonics rules are integrated throughout their whole LA program, not isolated in the spelling book). I was one of the people who gushed about AAS back in the spring. That was when ds liked it. You can throw rotten tomatoes at me now if you like, lol. Like a few people above have stated, it's the only and/or best thing that works for their child. Can't beat that, in those situations. I've got various combos of ETC, ETC online, SS, & AAS floating around in my head as possibilities. I hope I land on the right one(s) for my kiddos. I'm thumbing through Cathy Duffy's 100 Top Picks at the moment reading about other stuff (mainly calming me down about my math choices ;)). I suppose I'll look up spelling/phonics while I'm at it, *sigh*. I thought I was done looking around at curriculum until next year :lol:. I just enjoy creating extra work for myself, haha. ETA: The time thing hasn't really been an issue for us - it takes between 15-20 min. once we get going (slow b/c of ds' resistance mentioned above).

I need help. I grew up in a severely disorganized home and don't do a great job of it myself. It's starting to drive me nuts and I'm ready to take everything off all the shelves and put some rhyme and reason to it. I'm also emptying the linen closet (linens will go to their owner's top closet shelves) to put lesser used items in. That will get rid of the 5 or so BIG boxes of books/curricula/games in the living room & dining room. :D So... how do I sort it all out? Should I keep ALL things within a subject (math, science, LA, etc.) together? Or should I separate things that only I would get into (TM's, curricula) from things I'd like to be available to the kids at any given time (games, puzzles, encyclopedias, books)? Do I sort by grade level, do I sort within ea. subject into sub-subjects (new word)? I really don't want to get most of it done and then have to re-do it all. I don't have much space to sort things out in so I just want to do it and get it done. ;) Thanks for any input!

Thank you, Jane. I have my ds read along as I read aloud - to help w/ this very issue. We're still at a point where if I leave it completely to him, he skims too much & hasn't paid close attention to the whole story. If I just read aloud, sometimes his eyes glaze over and I get "What? Huh?" when I ask the questions. So we do both, and our problem is solved. :)

We started on the 17th. I could have chosen things that would be easier and/or less time-consuming (both for me in prep. time and for the kids in actual school time). I have my reasons for what I chose, so I'm hanging in there. I met alot of resistance from my older ds & have had a hard time getting the basics done b/c his attitude drags out subjects far longer than they need to take. That's when I find myself going "why oh why didn't I just go w/ LLATL?". So, we've got LA & Math taking up the whole entire day, afternoon, evening... we've done exactly 1 day of our new WP American Story 1 over the course of a week b/c of it. WP is taking alot longer per session that SOTW, which had me thinking the same thing - "why oh why didn't I just do SOTW 2?". Sometimes change is genuinely needed. Sometimes we just have "grass is greener elsewhere, anywhere but here" syndrome. Don't get the two confused. I'm hanging in there w/ my original choices b/c I had good reasons that are hard to let go of for choosing what I did. If by mid-Oct. or Nov. something still just isn't right, then I'd feel OK switching. I wouldn't switch so early in the game though - I'd feel like I didn't even give things a chance. There are alot of variables at play other than the curriculum. We're only on our 2nd week here and I've had dayS where I really needed a glass of wine. Perservere. Try to make wise decisions. There will always be a newer, more appealing curriculum coming out - but we can't ask ourselves (for our own sanity), our budgets, and our children to constantly switch gears because of it. For those of you just starting out, it may take some playing around w/ different things to find what works. Just remember you can always tweak things to fit you - you don't have to try to squish your kids into the curriculum's mold - make it fit them. Also, if all fails in a content subject, you can always fall back on the tried & true WTM method of spine + extra books + narrations & notebooking without breaking the bank for an all new curriculum. Anyhow, sorry for rambling on so. Just trying to prevent someone from running into the headaches I went through. :)

1. To supplement a curriculum doesn't necessarily mean also doing another curriculum entirely. I supplement Horizons, *sometimes, as needed*, with hands-on activities, games, and I keep a few other math programs on the shelves for reference. Why? My kids like to DO math, not just write it on a worksheet. My boys are good at math, although my older son balks at sitting & doing the worksheets - he loves coming up with problems and talking about math stuff in the car. My younger is ready for more than the review pages in Horizons 1 is giving him. They can both already tell time to the minute and count money well. Those two types of math problems in Horizons are lacking for *my* kids - so I ask them what time it is alot, what time it will be in ___ min. or hours, etc.; and we play w/ play money alot. No additional curriculum necessary. My older needs to put math facts to memory more solidly, so he spends extra time on that w/ flashcards & wrapups -- then I drill him for "instant recall". I am on paperbackswap and had the chance to get a Singapore textbook free - so I did. I liked it and bought some used SM here. I keep those for looking at math from a different angle, and I like how they illustrate things. I showed my boys what division is over the summer using a 2A book and they could see what I was talking about. Now I regularly jump at the chance to get any more SM stuff on PBS (paperbackswap), esp. since it's free. Even if we're not doing the whole curriculum, it's nice to have around - my boys like looking through them & they learn things as I answer their questions about them. I keep a few Saxon 2 items around for my 1st grader b/c I already have them (I wouldn't go buy them new). When he is bored w/ his Horizons lesson b/c it is review of concepts he has mastered well, I can flip through the Saxon and teach him something "odd" that Horizons might not mention for awhile - like "oblique" for ex. I'm starting to wonder why I keep the Abeka 3 math on the shelves. It's what I'd *like* to do, but my older son already takes hours to complete math w/ Horizons and Abeka is slightly harder. I thought I was going to draw from concepts taught in Abeka to make sure he was up to that level, but we have some character issues to tackle w/ getting easier work done efficiently before we can dream of going there. Besides, it's all about the same by the end of 6th grade, on the basics like the 4 operations anyhow. Some curricula are stronger in different "extra" stuff. I can see by the Horizons 2 & 3 curricula that it is very strong in geometry & pre-algebra. Some are stronger in English or metric measurements at earlier grades, or stronger w/ harder money & time problems earlier. That's why I mix it up. 2. No. Horizons is a solid program when you look at the entire scope from K-6. Now, if you want to do another program alongside in the future, I can't help you there. Programs often have such different sequences that by 2nd or 3rd grade it's hard to align them (I learned this back when I was looking at switching). I think you could still add something as a *supplement* later. Esp. if you do the supplemental program a half-year behind as review, so to give time to get the hang of how that program works. 3. How? See my answer to #1. We spend alot of time on math too, sorry, can't help you there. I've tried combining my boys (not their materials/grade levels) for math time, doing it separately, and now I'm trying to get my older started w/ his instruction time 1st, then do my younger's instruction time while older is working independently. Not going well so far. I'm really hoping to work the kinks out in that, b/c doing it separately was taking alot of time. When my oldest son was in K, we spent about 1.5 hrs on math b/c he loooooved it. We played math games for a long time after the lesson. I would not have made him spend that much time if he didn't want to. No, I'm not doing more than 1 full math program at any given time. I pull a book out from another for reference, to show the kids another way to do something, for more practice in a weak area, etc. Never actually doing 2 maths.

Well here's my thoughts on that. When they are young, SOTW is the main history you're using. If you get a couple of the add'l reading books from the list in the AG, great. If not, they still get a very good overview. Do some activities from the AG at this age to make what they learned more concrete in their minds (vs. an abstract story that they do nothing with). Do the coloring pages & mapwork. There's your grammar stage history, nothing more needed. Fast forward to logic stage. I would think SOTW used here would be more of a jumping off point vs. the main thing. I would still do SWB's recs on outlining from an encyclopedia. I'd add meatier books (Landmark, Hakim, Miller, etc.) for extra history reading; same with literature from that era. I'd make clearer & deeper connections between the subjects within that same era (fine arts, science, etc.). You'd definately have to beef it up. That's how I'd do it if I used SOTW for cycle 2. Is this how SL does it? I haven't looked at their 6th & 7th grades at all. I haven't read logic stage in WTM either, just skimmed it. :)

:iagree:A non-addicitve sleeping prescription that really works, has no side effects, and completely natural/safe. Ha! Too much to ask for?

:lurk5: I'm wondering which CM site to go to for this as well.

Me three! :D We just don't have room for all those boxes so I picked up some Sterilite hanging file milk crates (in kiwi green!). A side-note for those wanting to get boxes: Fred Meyer has the shoebox size on sale for 99 cents ea. this week. I like the idea of filling weekly, and I'm going to steal that other idea of the "Do/Done" folder with the Inbox inbetween. I just reached the bottom of my box of hanging file folders and I put the base of the box inside the lid to make it sturdier & am going to cover it w/ fabric or adhesive shelf paper (that we already have on-hand) this weekend - that will be my inbox. We're already using it as-is for now to keep papers corralled. I don't have alot of advice on cutting down time on filling boxes, however. Sorry. I'm only on day 4 here and haven't graded any papers. I'm used to grading on the weekends, but am seeing that certain things need to be graded daily (math, for one). It's definately a great idea, because it forces me to look over the next day's work. For my own 'teacher notes' that wouldn't go in the student's file/box, I've been keeping a daily schedule for ea. child w/ notes to myself there. I just jot stuff down in a spiral notebook & leave the back of the page blank to note things as we go throughout the day (such as, "ds8 needs to practice 6 multiplication tables", then I know to schedule that in the next day). For the kids I print off daily schedules I made in Excel. It just tells them what they're doing, and when. I'd love to let them choose what order to do their work in, but for now with them both needing so much one-on-one instruction, I have to schedule my bouncing back and forth between them carefully. I don't like them sitting there doing nothing with the excuse that they're waiting for me to get done with their sibling. This system helps with that because I have listed on their daily schedules things that they can do on their own, or that only take a little bit of getting started with me. I have a question while we're on the subject: I've got oversized tabs that I made w/ construction paper covered w/ clear contact sheets on both sides for the numbers. How do I get the velcro to stick to that, or even to something laminated for that matter? Are you all using the adhesive velcro dots, or something else? TIA!

Hi Heather, I'm not understanding what you're trying to get across to me here - it's probably me, as it's very early here. Do you mean that if I were to add FLL, WWE, & AAS it would be alot of work daily; or do you mean it sounds like he's already doing alot of work daily so don't add too much more? I should put a note in my sig. so ppl will know not all of that is daily, some of it not even weekly. :) I'm having him do OPG daily b/c he seems so ready for it; it's like he's just been waiting for me to give it to him. I suppose also because I feel "behind" since we didn't get to lesson 140 by the end of kindergarten. It doesn't take much time, and I don't see a struggle on his part to do it, so I'm OK w/ it for now. If he begins struggling I'll slow it down for him. As far as adding in FLL now & doing it daily - I think that if I were to add it in a few days per week, we'd still be done before 2nd grade. I wouldn't want to suddenly add it in on a daily basis anyhow - too much shock. As for WWE, that's written for 4 days/wk. so it would be OK. I'd let WWE copywork double as penmanship so not to overwhelm him with a massive workload. Now you all have me considering just going for it. I'd add the 3 subjects in gradually, one new subject at a time (maybe 1 new one per week for 3 weeks). I suppose I need to do what I should've done in the first place - get the books off my shelves and see if this idea I've got is OK for him or not. :tongue_smilie: How did I not think of that in the first place? I get all caught up in the "shoulds", like waiting until lesson 140, etc. Thanks for chiming in w/ the help ladies. It's so nice to have this place to get good input and bounce ideas around.

My littlest guy just started 1st grade but we're only on lesson 82 of OPG. He does very well in OPG, grasping things quickly and retaining old concepts. His reading fluency isn't quite there yet (he coudn't read for content quite yet), and I have to have him re-read words to apply a silent e rule that he forgot to the 1st time now & then. Do I really need to wait until we're in lesson 140 to begin grammar (FLL), writing (WWE), and spelling (AAS 1)? We're doing OPG daily, incl. weekends. At this rate it will be at least 2 months before he can start those subjects. I'm just sort of panicking inside - not wanting to get 'behind' from the get-go. Your thoughts are appreciated! :bigear:

:iagree:My thoughts exactly! I wonder if IKEA delivers to Alaska... Your kids are all so cute, and your dd is just beautiful & full of personality! Great job, Mom!

Thanks ladies. I don't know what I was thinking - that is a ton of reading. I went ahead & did what I was contemplating - I ordered a general science encyclopedia, a science dictionary, and am going to use the earth & space spines I already own. I have a few of the additional books on hand, but will just get whatever the library has for the rest. I spent a few hours on my library's website checking out what they have & don't have from the REAL list, and they had more than I thought they would. What did our mothers' generation do w/o boards like this? Oh, decide for themselves, that's what! :tongue_smilie:

I thought CW came out with reading primers for youngers, but we're doing WWE. I didn't even know CW offered writing for 1st graders.

For those truly lacking any wall space, there is a shower curtain with the top 500 misspelled words on it. It's made by the same brand that makes the ones w/ the periodic table, the water cycle, and the insect/reptile life cycles on them. I've been wanting one but can't justify $32 for a shower curtain. :001_smile: Might be worth it you consider you're turning it into "wall space". Plus, with that in the bathroom, what else are they going to stare at while brushing their teeth?