When I was in fourth grade we played Oregon Trail - except it was on a bulletin board on the wall. We each had a paper covered wagon and moved it along the trail. We drew cards that told us we had dysentery or our cow had a calf. Is this something that exists outside Mrs. Kelly's classroom in 1989?

Thank you. And MeghansMom - well done battling back from that stroke. You must be an amazing woman.

Haven't read all the replies, so sorry if this has been said, but DH and I attended a Marriage Builders seminar once. Everything he said sounded great! Until he got to that 15-20 hours per week of spending alone time. We looked at each other and cracked up in the middle of the seminar. With six kids, that's completely insane. I can't even get my head around it. OTOH, I think he had a lot of experience dealing with couples in crisis, where investing that kind of time might be worth it to save the marriage.

My dad died last month, after 14 grueling months of battling cancer. I was a table leader at my women's Bible study last year; they are a wonderful group of women and have been very supportive - except for one. She had a miscarriage this spring and absolutely fell apart. I called her almost every day, made them a meal, kept checking in for weeks afterward. She didn't even text me when my dad died. I know I'm being petty! I know it doesn't matter! But it bugs me that she sucked everyone in to her grief and can't find 2 minutes to acknowledge mine. We bought a house last year and were very pleased with our low mortgage payment. Last week we got a notice that - oops! - they miscalculated our escrow payments. Our payment is going up $600 per month to make up for it. It'll go down quite a bit this time next year, but it means we can't buy the new van we need to fit our family. Thanks for the thread. Hugs to everyone!

Here's another one - my rising 8th grader was asked a series of questions about segments. It read: Think of a segment which does not cross itself and which has been divided into segments by points. Such a figure will be called a diagram. A statement of order for a diagram is a three letter statement that a certain point lies between two others on a diagram. In our diagram, the points are labeled N, O, P and R. The order is expressed by NPR or RPN. The statement NOP is true for the diagram. The statement not OPN means that point N does not lie between O and P on the diagram. The statement not PRO is true for diagram 1. They did have a little diagram which made it a bit more understandable. This was in the 'Reading Comprehension' part of the test, and it made up about 25% of the test. She scored low on that one.

Seven seemed to be the age when my kids started thinking about big stuff, and the little stuff often got forgotten. Yes, they've gone into the bathroom to brush their teeth and come out having forgotten that's what they went in there to do. We all forget about which day it is sometimes. "Gee, was that just this morning? It seems like yesterday." I wouldn't worry, but I see no reason not to mention it to her pediatrician if it makes you feel better.

Well, that's comforting. This is our 8th year, so it's not like we haven't tested before, but this year seems to be the worst as far as clarity and their performing at the level I know they can. (Bad sentence, don't care :laugh: )

True, but a search for food stamps brings up the right information. I'm not trying to make excuses, honestly. I believe that privelege is a real thing that effects real people's lives. I'm just trying to insert relevant information into the conversation.

That would be the General Education Board. Around here, it's all religion and politics, all the time. Except when it's vaccinations and breastfeeding. :laugh: Seriously, though, we talk about a lot of touchy stuff around here and we (mostly) stay friends.

Right. This was a long time ago, but it seems even easier to get information now. I just did a google search for 'food stamps' and the entire first page were links to how to apply in my area. I also searched 'I can't pay my rent' and found dozens of articles on what to do, what my rights are, and links to places you can get help. I learned something new - there are grants available to help people pay their bills. The site that listed that info included links to several other resources. Google also gave me several related searches to try - churches that pay rent, charities that pay rent, emergency help for eviction, etc. I get that people might assume services aren't for them, but at what point is that the fault of 'privilege'? I'm not Catholic but I was willing to see if they would help me. Trust me, I'm not bashing people who need help. Unlike many 'priveleged' people, I did not grow up in a stable home, I do have family members with criminal records, there is a history of mental illness, substance abuse, and homelessness in my immediate family. I don't think that because I escaped that I'm better than anyone else. I disagree that a significant number of people don't know how to get help. Go to any low income area and ask around. For the most part, they know how to get services. They know exactly when the welfare checks and food stamps are coming. Homeless people know where to get food and clothing and showers, and where businesses will let you park for the night. It's certainly true that some don't, but not most. I agree that it can be difficult to get services when you are mentally ill or have a substance abuse problem. There is certainly a lot of fear there that you will lose your autonomy.

Although, if they do back out now everyone will assume they have something to hide.

I can see this being possible. I have only my own experience to draw from, of course, but I found (at least in my area) that help was readily available. There were advertisements on billboards, at bus stations and in libraries. Churches and doctor's offices could connect you to help. We originally got connected to services because I needed a doctor and we had no health insurance. I got out my phone book (delivered free to our apartment) and looked up free health services. I found a Catholic church that held a clinic and when I went they connected me to other services. Had I not needed to see a doctor I think I would still have known, because we lived in a low-rent area and most of our neighbors received some kind of assistance, as we found out. There were fliers for WIC in the apartment office where I had to go to pay the rent every month. Still, I'm sure there are some who really don't know.

Hmm.. I tried playing this but got frustrated fast - not because it was hard to stay afloat, but because the scenarios were so worst-case. For example - you get a job but it's a crappy one with zero health insurance and no sick time. Even the worst jobs I've ever had (fast food!) gave you some sick time. Then you had to buy health insurance through Obamacare and didn't qualify for state insurance even though you have a child and only make $1200 per month. At $1200/month in my area you'd be eligible for food assistance and housing assistance. According to this 'game' you won't get either. If you missed one electric bill your electricity was cut off. It takes more than that. In every area I've ever lived there are programs to help people who can't pay their utilities, and in extreme weather areas there are laws that prevent them from shutting you off during hot or cold seasons. In the course of the 3 weeks I played I needed a root canal, my kid joined the track team, my dog got terribly ill and my grandpa died. I know this is possible, but come on. I get that it's trying to help people understand what it's like, but I've lived well below the poverty line and when I took advantage of the help that was available we did okay. I'm not saying there aren't situations like the one in the game, I'm saying they're not the norm.

Praying here! :grouphug: :grouphug:

Yes, I'm venting. My kids started their testing yesterday. We're doing the CAT online through Christian Liberty and it has been AWFUL. The directions are murky, the questions are poorly worded. The language question format is hard to understand - you get a story, broken into phrases and chunks, which are each numbered. Then you have to look up to the story to figure out which small section the question is asking about, then look back to the question to figure out the answer. This is especially difficult when you're dealing with punctuation, because sometimes the punctuation deals with whatever is directly before or after the section you're being asked about. For one punctuation question, the section being tested was 'feeds the zoos elephants'. You're supposed to know that there should be an apostrophe in 'zoos'. Fine, except you must select which type of punctuation comes after which word. So should you choose an apostrophe after 'zoos'? Even though it comes in the middle of that word? The test frequently freezes up. The pages load slowly, so while the timer is going you can't answer because your question hasn't come up yet. Since I've been peaking over their shoulders, I know that the 5th grade and 4th grade vocab, spelling and punctuation tests are exactly the same. How is that fair? I know dd9 has done really poorly on some things that she should have done well on, just because she gets frustrated and starts guessing. Ugh, ugh, ugh. I hate testing.

I'm not sure about the bolded. I have a son who is 11. I also have a 9 year old daughter. If my son molested my daughter today, I'm not sure I would never allow him back in the house. There are so many complex issues involved in that decision. Not defending the Duggars, just stating that things are rarely simple. I very much doubt that Bill Gothard is the kind of guy who hangs out with a friend's kid for 2 months doing home remodel projects. He was very much the business man, working 12 hour days in his office, speaking, traveling, etc. Thanks for clearing that up, I was confused.

Love these.

Disneyland or World? If you can stay in a hotel that gives you early admission and it's in your budget, do it. Wear a backpack and bring snacks and water. Eat while you're in line. You can buy food and eat it in line, too. Figure out ahead of time what few things you REALLY want to do and accept that you won't be able to do everything. If you're feeling worn out, take a break! Find a shady spot in the grass to rest for 15 minutes. It's way more fun to miss a few things but feel good than to get cranky trying to cram it all in. Get a spot for the parade really early if you want to see it. We've eaten while waiting for the parade many times. Enjoy your trip!

:grouphug: :grouphug: We faced something similar last summer. So frustrating. Here's hoping things turn around for you!

Yes, which is always fun to see. My most hated are the posts claiming that if you just eat ten pounds of raw carrots every day (or something else stupid) you can cure your cancer! My dad is 15 months into treatment for stage IV lung cancer. DO NOT EVEN.

I have no idea if it's a 'fundie' thing, but I'm pretty sure I have a prom picture with that pose.

I apologize, I didn't mean to make myself a spokesperson. I perceived that there were people who have been hurt by churches and I wanted to reach out to them in what small way I could. I don't mean to speak for victims at all. I simply meant to say, "Hey - I'm a Christian and I'm sorry that other people who called themselves Christians hurt you." I feel like the more I try to make myself clear the muddier the water gets, so I'll leave it be, and I'd be happy to go back and take down my original post if it's offensive.

No, not my own church. I don't feel responsible for Josh Duggar, but I do feel somewhat responsible for the reaction of the church and (some) Christians in general. How can I explain? They (we're not talking JD now, we're talking church leaders and commenters (Ray Comfort) and others in other situations) did things that were horrible in the name of Christ. I claim the name of Christ. I even claim to be in leadership in the church. I can distance myself and claim that I would never do such a thing, but creating that distance only makes me feel better about myself, it doesn't help the victims. The victims need healing, not to be told that real Christians don't act that way - even if that also needs to be said. I'm not saying that you or other Christians here are doing the wrong thing - at all! Objecting to how this case was handled is the right thing. This issue has been heavy on my heart this weekend. I've realized that if someone says, "I've been victimized by the church", I want my response to be, "I'm sorry. You are valuable. The church was wrong." I hope this is clarifying.

I've been lurking here all weekend without feeling I had anything of real value to add to the conversation, but after reading the Ray Comfort quote (something about his 'BC' days) I can't keep quiet anymore. I'm a Christian. My husband is a pastor. I am not affiliated in any way with ATI or Bill Gothard (ALTHOUGH - DH went to a very small private school that used Paces (ACE) and he went to a Bill Gothard seminar for credit! So, full disclosure, I guess I do have ties. But I promise he doesn't agree with any of it! Apparently his rock-listening, pants-wearing mother was a good influence.) but still, we are the church. I'm so, so sorry. I'm sorry for the way the church has handled so many issues. I'm sorry for being hateful and cruel. I'm sorry that we thought we could handle things in house. I'm sorry for marginalizing women. I'm so, so sorry for the pain the church has caused. I realize I don't really have the authority to speak on behalf of the church in general. I know that this isn't even a drop in a very large bucket. I know that it doesn't count for much. But it can't not be said. The church has done some shitty things. I hope (pray, if it's not offensive) for the healing and peace of everyone who has been hurt by the church.

Thankful for good news. Still praying!