+1 to everyone who doesn't like FOIL. I just don't see the point of teaching a mnemonic that only works on *some* of the problems. It makes those problems easy, but I frequently see that students don't understand what's going on with the process of multiplying and are unable to multiply anything *but* binomials times binomials. The second issue is that for these students, it frequently makes learning to factor far more difficult than it should. Since they don't really see how they went together in the first place, they can't see how they come apart.

If he hasn't done trigonometry with a circular function approach (not sure how much you've covered in geometry), I would strongly, strongly recommend this before calculus. Topics such as trigonometric substitution are challenging for any student and far more so for someone who is attempting to learn the trigonometry at the same time. If you have Foerster's Precalc already, you could just do the trig chapters. If you would like a more challenging text, Gelfand's Trigonometry may be a good fit for you. If you just want a fast run-through, you could consider Life of Fred's Trigonometry text. If you really want to go ahead and start calculus, you could consider supplementing with something like Mueller and Brent's just-in-time Algebra and Trigonometry for Calculus.

I agree with Teachin'Mine. If she wants to be a homeschool mommy, that's even more reason to take algebra 2. Furthermore, if she knows consumer math and business math already, there's not a lot else to do ... since I doubt she'd be interested in number theory or probability.

Studying ahead is a good plan. I hope I wasn't unclear, but what I meant by not making decisions is -- while keeping the options open, and thinking about the future, I wouldn't go ahead and do the test now. I'd have him do the precalc book, however long it takes -- if it takes one year, call it precalc -- if it takes 1.5 years, call it a credit of college algebra and a half-credit of trig/analytic geometry. Precalc books are jam-packed and most college courses don't finish the whole book, so giving more than 1 credit seems absolutely reasonable if it takes more than a year. Honestly I think a lot of high school students (not the very top ones of course) would be better off taking more time on algebra and precalc instead of hurrying to calculus. Unfortunately I don't make the educational policy.

For YOU, I think CLEP college algebra is totally reasonable. For your son, I would be much more inclined to do precalc if he does a test at all. If he changes his major to something that requires precalc he wouldn't have to retake it. I don't think I'd make that decision now, though -- by the time he gets close to testing it should be near the end of 11th grade or maybe beginning of 12th, and he'll have a much better idea of where he's looking at college then. I'd save the $80 until he's sure he's attending somewhere that takes it AND doesn't give credit for placement examinations AND doesn't have an in-house exemption exam. Some colleges give their own exams if a student wants to try to earn credit for a class. Some colleges will allow this but do not advertise the policy. As an undergraduate, I went to the department to try to earn credit by examination for a specific class. They rarely had requests but allowed me to take the comprehensive final along with the students who were enrolled in the class. When I earned an A on the final, they recorded me as having taken the course and earned an A. The biggest difference will be that college algebra won't require trig and analytic geometry. Precalc will. You could easily just follow along with your son through the chapters of a precalc text that have to deal with algebra, and then when he gets to the trig/geometry part of the text, stop learning new stuff and start studying with a clep-specific test prep book.

OP needs college algebra for her major and seems to be asking whether her DS should clep college algebra with her or just study the full precalc curriculum and clep that. The answer to whether he should clep at all is going to depend on where he goes, so frankly I wouldn't waste money on the test until he knows for sure where he's going and whether they accept it or just do placement tests. Most of the universities I have been at have not given credit for placement tests. There were separate tests for credit but they were usually only available for calculus and higher. At one, there was a test for the gen ed math course (covered statistics, logic, and consumer math) but specifically not for college algebra. This was because students who did not need college algebra for their major were deliberately discouraged from taking it as the general education class was considered more relevant. At one, college algebra was the minimum gen ed course and students who passed the placement test did not receive college credit but were exempted from the math requirement.

This is so variable by state and by university that you cannot really apply 'in general' to it. At many of the universities where I have been, the progression was college algebra - precalc - calc. There was no 'trig' class. At a few, students could take college algebra, then either precalc OR trig, then calc. The only reason, really, to take the college algebra clep would be if the only gen ed class you needed was college algebra. Many universities will grant placement into precalc but NOT credit for college algebra, so you would still have to take another course. Unless the student is attending this sort of university I can't see a reason for it.

I had my license suspended due to a similar thing. Unfortunately, I never got the letter that it was suspended, so I found out that it was suspended when I got pulled over for something else and got arrested. My brother came to the jail with cash to pay the fine, I paid the fine, they reinstated my license on the spot and let me go.

I don't think I'd take a math break -- it's going to be much more difficult to get him back into the 'doing schoolwork' mindset when he's had several months off. I'd rather see short, engaging daily lessons.

x

No, but I don't think the competitive math team should be forced to make spots for anyone who wants one either. I don't think we should spend a lot of money trying to get more students ready for math competitions and push uninterested students into competing, which is a much better analogy to the extracurricular basketball competitions. However, I do think that students should learn the math they need to function in society, just like I think students for whom reading doesn't come naturally should be pushed to learn to read. Just because they are not capable of the full curriculum doesn't mean that we should stop teaching them at all -- it means that we should see what they *can* learn and teach them that. And FWIW, I also strongly support adapted physical education for students who have motor difficulties, based around them learning lifetime physical activities which will keep them in as healthy and fit a body as they can (which, frankly, should be the goal of regular physical education in elementary school imo). That doesn't mean we have to put them on a competitive team.

Debating or persistently correcting someone who has no interest in debate may yet be productive. The purpose is not to reach the hard-line, but rather the silent lurkers who may be watching. For example, when someone posts a rabidly anti-homeschool post on other places I read, I tend to chime in with the experiences of the people I know. I'm not trying to reach the extremists, but I am adding another viewpoint for the moderates.

Professional dress. A suit is best imo because if you have a cute blouse on underneath you can take the jacket off and suddenly look a lot less formal if you feel overdressed. It's a lot more difficult to remove part of a dress. I will add, though, that unless she is ludicrously over- or underdressed she should be fine. I'm sure she wasn't going to go in either an evening gown and white gloves or a t-shirt and ratty jeans.

Yes, exactly.

I will add in that *anyone* considering graduate school should look at the placement stats for graduates of that program, and furthermore find out how many of them were placed in full-time positions after leaving graduate school. Find out where the people who have the job you want went and what they did while they were there. For a specific example, my graduate school would not be a great place to go if you want a full-time position at a research university. There are people who've done that, but not that many. However, it has a pretty decent placement rate for teaching at community colleges or smaller 4-year schools (which is exactly the job I wanted), likely due to ample teaching opportunity within the program, some excellent teachers as role models, and some emphasis on applications rather than on strictly theory.

I think it's the comment about her being on her own at 18 a few posts later that is prompting this. OP has not clarified on whether this means dd would have to fund college on her own or whether this would mean that she would no longer be welcome to stay in her family's home.

There's no reason he couldn't do college algebra, CLEP it, and then finish it so he has precalc on his transcript. I am just using Lial's for the first time in the spring semester for a course I'm teaching, and from reading through the book I really like it. There are far far far more problems than you really need though, so doing just odds/evens is totally reasonable.

In addition to what regentrude said, I know a lot of people with math/physics degrees who did some further training after their bachelor's and were quite employable. My undergrad school had a few math majors every year take actuarial exams and intern, and that's an excellent (if boring) job. There were also people in my graduate school doing a (funded) master's in applied probability and statistics, and most of them got decent jobs as soon as they finished and a stipend to live on while they worked. In other words -- I wouldn't worry *as much* about an employable bachelor's degree. I would make use of career services while at university and discuss alternative options for employment in physics/math but continue to aim at the theory he loves. He can change his mind later to go for employment -- it's not irrevocable.

Job market is freaking horrible in most fields. Even in the fields where it's merely bad and not horrible, you have to be willing to move anywhere in the US in order to have a chance at a job. I landed a tenure-track job across the country from my family, in a small town 2 hours from the nearest city, and I was thrilled to get one offer. (The job is awesome, btw)

Yep.

Proof is not really that bad. Here's a website with a bunch of explanations and some proofs. http://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMAT6680/Brown/6690/negneg.htm

I am not sure if I read your first post correctly. When you said "on her own at 18", were you meaning that it'd be up to her to pay for it, or that she'd get kicked out with a "never darken my doorstep again" if she even tried for it? The first one, I'd help her find the financial information she needs and brainstorm alternative ways for her to get into college. One of my friends was successfully able to petition to have the parents financial information not included after living on her own for a year (her parents refused to pay for her college for different reasons). She could take training as something like a CNA, which is a fairly decent job for a high school graduate, and would allow her to fund her own living quarters and save money for college while waiting until her parents information doesn't count as far as grants. The second one ... yeah. That IS a hill I'd die on.

I had an Aikido one as well, but it started at 11:30 pm.

I am so sorry I didn't see this. I am in finger lakes region as well visiting family. Are you all right now?

You can get homeschool bundles for 4 and 5 through rainbow resource. Each bundle is about 80 bucks. Not sure what precisely it includes, but I checked to make sure it was available before I mentioned it as a possibility.