Hi there, I am just starting IEW with 3rd graders, (2nd day!) and doing keyword outlines. It's harder than it looks. I've been stepping down the reading level of source text and seems like there is no too low at this point. I was wondering how long people stay on unit one when its not clicking yet. By not clicking I mean they pick random words sometimes that don't capture the idea of a sentence, and then when speaking back from their outline they have something completely different than the source. I am modelling and suggesting, and like I said stepping down reading level and then hopefully climbing back up. I have the Student Intensive A but will not crack that open till they can follow along with the first lesson, which they cannot right now. Any thoughts on how long to linger at step one? thanks! ps Overall, I am very impressed with the IEW program and although I think a kid can and should outgrow it, it is chock full of great ideas and tips and tricks and ideas and is exactly what I was looking for. So that's my quick, first look review. I can see already that it is not the end all be all of writing by any means.

Try reflex math.com since I see your kid plays video games. These Math games can be very tense but if in game form you might see he is okay with it. Of course pattern recognition is even better because the benefits run deep, but then again automaticity is huge going into long division.

Thanks! I would really love any examples from the program. that helps a lot. and no, the OP (me), is not versed in foreign language programs (at all). I teach writing at college and graduate level-- but am very respectful of the fact that those who teach at lower levels must have accumulated wisdom I can draw from.

The karate metaphor is filling things in for me, and making me think this is after all what exactly I am looking for. Just to play a bit with the metaphor though, in martial arts there are not a small number of people who argue that those forms, while better than nothing, are not the fastest, purest, or most effective way to learn to fight. It was quite a shock for China and Japan when they encountered little Thailand's fighters, or Russian Wrestlers, etc., who didn't train that way, and kicked all their butts. The return policy is tempting-- one of it's purposes is no doubt to lure people like me in, who are just looking for any excuse to hit the buy button.

Wow thanks, I didn't realize about the return policy. That would make sense to check it out then. I'm too curious now not to.

Thanks! yeah, I can come up with plenty of topics for writing. my main question now just concerns whether it is a curriculum or system of teaching writing, or it is a . To be more clear, I could imagine one: let's say the first 2 weeks are working on adverbs and adjectives in sentences. the next week is dependent clauses the next is paragraph building and so on... maybe not quite that rigid, but what I mean is it gives me a discipline (because I paid a lot of money for it) which I will stick to, step by step, and that if I go through the steps it will add up to something in the end. Although I feel perfectly competent to teach anything at all to do with writing, I would appreciate having the planning and decision making taken out of my hands, what with everything else on our minds. thanks again!

Thanks! I guess I am getting more sold than unsold. I am a writer and my son excels at math, although he has some flair for constructing complex sentences. I think if IEW helps with learning structure including that of sentences, with required structures etc., that sounds good. So, my main questions are: can you say a bit more about "dress-ups" ? Sounds good, as far as I can guess what it means. is the "flop" then due to not so interesting topics in the assignments, and that possibly the instructions are too unnatural and awkward and might not lead to the best results, for some kids. This is I think what I have gleaned from the answers so far. What else could it be? finally, it seems the TWSS is what I would want then, but does it have a set sequence to follow? If its just some great teaching ideas, then I guess I could find good ideas cheaper elsewhere. But, if it has a step by step plan for the kid (which is actually just to keep me disciplined and on track systematically going through it), then that would be a selling point. thanks again!

I have had my eye on this, even though I am competent to teach writing to my dc 8yrs. I think I could use the discipline of the scheduled sequence, plus there must be good teaching ideas in there. why do some report it as a big flop? I can't afford any more flops. I would greatly appreciate anyone who could explain why it flopped with your kids. I can usually use cues in the posts to tell if my dc is similar to the responders' dc, so fire away! Thanks, Alan Ps. I was thinking of getting SWI A, and not the TWSS since I think I can figure my way around it.

Go see crewton ramone videos about long division. He's really annoyed by the "drop it down" thing. I mean really annoyed.

I agree with the hard sell on No More I'm Done (see link in post reply near top). There are a bunch of books in that line of thinking and No More is the best start, since it has teaching philosophy but also very specific and practical week by week "how to do it," which you can sample, skip, follow at will. My 8 year olds THRIVE on this approach to writing. I also think it is a perfect complement to the WWE, copywork, and dictation, which we also do, although I am not convinced by the "wait and see years later" promise that the copywork and dictation approach will work out in the end-- maybe, and for some kids is probably the truth of it, but how do you know? Just so you know, I teach writing in college and graduate school and I have always incorporated copywork and imitation even at the highest levels, so I am not agin'it.

sounds like you are looking for something more than just.copywork and dictation. If you do decide to go with WWE, I am not convinced that it will lead to the result you are looking for. This is a matter of debate, and probably very different results happen depending on the child and Parent and many factors. But it is certain that WWE will not provide the direct how to instruction that you may be looking for, whether or not it necessary to have that.

yes, thanks for the list! It's got quite a lot and it all seems great. How about Language Arts? My kids hate doing reading comprehension exercises on the computer and would probably hate it on the ipad as well, but anything innovative for the older crowd? (like, 8, already reading fluently and spelling multi-syllable words?) Maybe advanced spelling or verbal logic, or something? I know Marie's Words has an app but those words are a bit more SAT-like IMO thanks again! ps. one piece of bad news: turns out there is a "game center" on the ipad screen that you cannot delete because it is part of the OS-- maybe that's new.

Hi there, I don't have the money yet for the ipad, but am starting to collect apps before my kids open the ipad box and want to play mind numbing games right away, which I will remove first and replace with learning games. Right now I have dragonbox, simplex spelling phonics, and the HOE intro app. I also want a fraction game that is not fraction monkeys and which I saw discussed here, and I am not sure if simplex spelling is the same speller that is kind of AAS-like which was also discussed here on the forum. What else do you recommend? My kids read words okay and are at least 3rd grade math level: simple computation equations are not wanted and my kids are forever more forbidden to learn sight words as far as basic reading goes. I think I want to hold off on interactive books because I fear it might make regular books seem boring, or would it be the reverse, a good intro for the reluctant reader?

yes-- the unit studies are a collection of weblinks that lead to varying quality sites. They put in a couple worksheets of very basic nature, not anything at all approaching a professional workbook. Think of them as supplements to something else you are doing, or else if you just want to casually find out stuff on a topic. Although buying several of them would make me shirk at the price, for one unit the price is okay for finding a bunch of websites you wouldn't find otherwise. It can inject a fun factor into learning, which is worth a lot IMO If you are not web surfing in your hs, then forget about it.

I agree that Rightstart is great for this, and also has the benefit of being the most anti-kumon of all curricula. Not that kumon is bad for getting out of finger counting. It worked for my son, who although he did not like it (what kid does) it actually put him on a good groove and track with math, with the discipline and repetition. Not so his twin sister, who hated it and eventually became physically and psychically unable to be coerced in any way to do it, like her mind would just slip off the rails like a train with greasy glass wheels. My daughter LOVES Rightstart. The important thing to understand is that if kumon did not work, it is time to back up and get out of procedures and algorithms for computing math problems (finger counting is one algorithm, but so is take away one from the tens space and give it to the ones space, etc.), and instead get into the CONCEPTS of addition, subtraction, multiplication, etc. that is: understanding what they really mean. This may not take long. Then, you can return to math drills later that use speed and timing to get to automatic recall of the facts. This can be achieved without conceptual understanding, but it will show up later as trouble with algebra if you don't lay the foundation first. I don't know about Singapore online, but to get to the concepts it will be necessary to get cusinaire rods (inexpensive) or other manipulatives and the Singapore Home Instructors Guide (HIG). Singapore curricula have A and B components and the A is always computation. So, you could get 2A and 3A. The same things can be achieved with Crewton Ramone's House of Math videos which are about $5 for a couple months, and the free site run by a forum member here about mental math. I would start with the latter and just find videos for techniques. Can someone chime in with the website-- I forget. Also dreambox.com would work well here too, very visual and spatial and uses an abacus, although not by itself as it is possible to do dreambox with finger counting if no one is watching you. Later, after concepts are solid, you can use reflexmath.com to get the facts down for instant recall. All the drilling and speed trials ARE really important for doing higher math, but the danger is you can also cover up and hide a problem (which would have been easy to remedy) by learning math facts by rote recall before concepts are grokked. Good luck and good thing that you came here for help!

Yes. The company pitches the program for pre-elementary in the impressions it gives. The anecdotes and examples on the website are the same as in the intro materials you get, and I pasted them in below. They don't mention any kids more than half my children's age, which is 8. Nor does the website mention any return or refund policy. I can see how an older child like yours (12) would be better able to engage with the "talking points," although I do wonder how interesting they will be. If slogging through them is part of a drill with a certain result in mind (like remediation) I can see how it might be useful. Have you read through them, though? They are not natural text, but ungainly mish-mashes of vocabulary words strung together. As lists of words assembled in a prose-like form, they are good collections of words one might like to study, but would be a real frustration or bore for a child to actually read. Here is the sales pitch from the company, which I paste in as an example of the indicated age range. They really seem to pitch the program for young children. I want to stress that I do not find these examples to represent unrealistic results for the 36 words in the program at all, and in fact are likely to be typical: "Little Marin, five weeks before her third birthday, walked out of her bedroom and informed her grandmother that she was wearing a striated dress. The same day, she looked into the kitchen and told her sister that the coffee cup atop the microwave was inverted. Evan, almost four, made big leaps in applying the roots he learned through Visual Vocabulary’s methods. Without hesitation he chose the dormitory over the auditorium for the hypothetical college student who wanted to go to bed. How did he know? “Sleep,†was his reply. He had learned that dorm meant sleep and seen visual definitions of the word dormant. And when told about a movie he had never seen and asked to match clock, teapot, or candlestick to the name Lumiere, Evan rightly chose the candlestick. Time spent working with the word luminous had taught him about light. Chelsea, Dominique, and Aidan also learned the meaning of luminous. After going through the deck once, none of them had any problem understanding a request to illuminate the room. Aidan jumped to the switch. After being introduced to the word verdant through Visual Vocabulary’s methods, a group of preschoolers at a recent MOPS (Mothers of Preschoolers) meeting mobbed a pot of artificial foliage to demonstrate their understanding."

I am going to check on that. I am really good at ordering things and not so good at returning them. And ugh... I feel bad too about the review because I really support small cottage industries with a great idea-- which visual vocabulary is. I really thought I would be supporting them here and their sales would take off. I don't want to dissuade anyone actually. Maybe I was expressing myself a little too ardently above? In any case I really do hope someone can come and straighten me out and point out some things and maybe create some balance, or, best of all, make it so I don't want to return it.

I just received and started using my full Visual Vocabulary set, which I purchased at 10% discount (see above posts). But I am not overly thrilled about it, and can guess why at least one other poster above was also underwhelmed. Never heard back about why, but I made a long post and review on the subject and I thought I would let you all know, since you may be subscribed to this thread. I would really appreciate your help and comments. Here is the post: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?p=4199162#post4199162

So, my Visual Vocabulary full set arrived and I have to say I am-- if not disappointed, then-- perplexed. What I like: I think it is a great and meaningful way to learn some vocabulary words. The cards have high production value and effectively communicate the concept through visual thinking. Promise delivered on. What's got me stumped: how to use it beyond learning the meaning of 36 words it directly covers, except via means I invent and produce myself. What is provided for that purpose is confusing at best. As a curriculum junkie, I know what a standard introduction and manual should read like, so don't tell me different. The one-page description of the use of the product with talking points sounds like a quick note written between people who are already using the program or just attended a seminar on the topic. In the intro it mentions 3 year olds learning new fancy words (which I can definitely see is possible) and yet the subsequent "talking points" which occupy the place of a manual in this program is for much, much older kids, and at that age there are far more interesting reads than the contrived short tidbits in the talking points. This may sound like I am asking for a scripted program but that is not what I mean to say. I am a creative teacher and love to be so. It's rather that at this price something quite innovative and creative should be provided for me-- so its really comes down to a critique of the price. Basically, what is usable are these groups of flashcards of a single word, with different pictures on the back for the same word (total of 36 words with multiple cards for each word). Look at all the pictures, then intuit the meaning of the single word. Still love that part of it. Very effective-- for learning that word. That is, once you factor out the fact that using pictures with small children will lead them to assume the meaning is a thing (a noun) because everything they see in the pictures are things. I have used the occasion of these cards to reinforce grammar categories, since my children so far make this same mistake every single time. For example, after seeming to grasp quickly the meaning of "luminous" (which is the maker's free sample), my children used it in sentences like, "The luminous over there is very bright," because everything on the cards was giving off light, ergo: luminous means light-source. So, in effect, after "learning" the meaning of the term, my kids then have to unlearn it, and then I teach them to re-learn it in the right way, through examples, acting, whatever… so that I get the weird impression that these cards are just a taskmaster forcing me to teach by my own wits and devices, which is of course great, but… what am I paying for? There is more to the program though: one of the flashcards in the set of cards on the same word has, in fine print, a bunch of similar, related words printed on it with their definitions, which, I gather, you are supposed to just go off on your own and do stuff with-- maybe discuss, memorize, spell. In any case, you are on your own. I thought there was going to be some sort of visual incorporation and relationship established in the cards themselves between similar and related words, but there is no such thing (which was my imagination and not a false promise from the maker). The product itself is, quite simply: visual flashcards for 36 words. At $125 it is a steep price for that many words. I don't need to pay for the associated short lists of related words-- I have a dictionary, so there is no added value with a little list on the last card in each set. The makers claim the "program" works with X number of words, but they are including the lists they typed out at the end. In short, this is a good idea that seems to want to be a "program," but has no idea about how to go about doing that, or if it does, no idea about how to explain it beyond look at this word and go have a conversation on it. If it happens that your child is exactly the right age to appreciate the awkwardly written, vocab-peppered (randomly chosen) blogposts printed out as the talking points-- this might approach "program" status, once you figure your way through the strange way the components are ordered in the talking points handout. I don't have to make that effort myself since my children would never be able to engage the talking points at their age, even if they were interesting texts. So, I am left in the position of inventing a use for these cards that will be profound enough to justify the $125 I just spent on them (as they are, well worth roughly $25 I would say). Anyone who can help me imagine how to use them beyond just as memory flashcards… let me know. Any reactions, retorts, commiserations welcome too! Or maybe you or I could invent the product I thought this was going to be.

How about planners, programs, etc.? I see people refer to these sometimes but I don't know the Planning 101 on these. I just wing it myself, and it is helpful to hear all the semi-wing it advice and it is probably just what I need, but I am also interested in any tools you find useful or just the names or leads on the tools that others seem to be using, especially if they might help people who are bright-eyed and dream big but who have follow-through issues. thanks again! DD 8 years old DS 8 years old

i heard lots of singing of praises of pre-ordering and went for it, in what turned out to be the higher price. 1st time. Now I know. glad to have the magic schoolbus dvds now, although my 8 year olds find it a little kindergardeny.

Hi there, I have so many things up in the air in life right now, including what I will teach next, and even if my kids will be in PS this fall or not. But for right now, I need something to get a fix on things. Of course, I can do this myself but I bet y'all have some tricks, Parent workbooks, computer programs, etc. that you use to keep on track with what you will teach and when. This is not because I intend to stick directly to a plan or believe that I actually can complete whatever plan I come up with (which will always be too much), but just looking for tricks of the trade to just keep me a little more "honest." Thanks!

Thanks! Yeah, I think from seeing a few different scenarios described it is helpful for me to have asked about this. I think my vague feeling that I should be careful about offending the teacher has been reinforced.

Word problems lay the foundation for algebraic thinking-- so they are super important, as well as practicing logic skills in reading comprehension. Why not just do word problems well below grade level, starting with one per day? "Challenging Word Problems 1" from SM is fine for on-level second graders (although better for mathy 1st graders) and should be fine for a 3rd or 4th grader with language difficulties. Of course if your kids are not old enough yet, then find something super easy. Just separate in your mind the word comprehension part from the computation so you don't think it's wrong to do problems that your child can too easily compute-- just be clear in your mind about why you are doing these "easy" problems. Math word problems in elementary school have a limited vocabulary and limited number of logical expressions, so there should be nothing wrong with learning these little by little over time, starting with the easiest expressions.

Not sure what you are looking at, but you DO NOT need the whole curriculum packages that are 400-500 dollars. Most of those cover multiple grade levels and include classroom size giant books, etc. It would be better to go to gander publishing directly and look through site to get an explanation of what you might want. Also, there are a ton of samples of just about every product there. http://www.ganderpublishing.com/Visualizing-and-Verbalizing.html