Hi there, I love the idea of spelling to write and read and similar spelling programs, and spent a lot of money, and some time, on them. Not much time, as very soon I became disheartened by the amount of time I was putting into it as well as my kids. We are starting at age 8 with good spellers (when they try to spell well). When writing, they make mistakes. But with all there is to do in other departments, especially reading, it doesn't seem like the best investment of time to go so slowly over spelling rules and basic wordlists. They cant train at their level of spelling because of the pile of rules necessary to get there. Anyone else give up such spelling programs due to the time commitment? If I was starting at K5 and beginning reading then this would be awesome, but not sure of the value / time at this point. thanks!

Any CA homeschoolers can advise? I am anticipating that I will take my kids out of PS next spring. Should I go ahead and file the affadavit for my "private school" in the october window? will there be a problem if I have an affadavit on file but my kids are still in PS? sorry for not spelling affadavit right! I promise I wont be that bad as a teacher. thanks!

Just saw this thread. I do both Tai Chi and Yoga, and also teach qigong/tai chi/ and meditation. Of course, I am going to highly recommend Tai Chi. It wakes up good moods and healing in the body. I would like to say, though, that one should be very conservative in starting tai chi, or any exercise for that matter. Be patient, not greedy, think of it as a life long marathon. Then benefits will build up in no time. It is actually possible to hurt yourself in Tai Chi by trying too hard. Mostly one can get sore knees by going too far too fast without proper guidance. Rarely is there any other kind of setback. If you want to get started right away feeling what Tai Chi is capable of, you can start safely with the "standing tree" practices. Some people might feel funny standing still for ten minutes, but it is super safe and the benefits accrue very fast as well. Also, moving Tai Chi feels like a party once you're used to standing meditation! Some great 10 minute videos on standing tree are on youtube and are compiled on this website: http://www.attentionarts.com under "standing meditation" thats easier than for me to look them up on youtube.

Go cursive! try "joy of handwriting" for a cheap download, or else the cursive program that goes with SWR or Logic of English.

I am a writer too, but too busy to read the other writer's post. I bet its the same thing I am going to say. If your child is into writing something and excited, count your blessings! Try to feel the joy vicariously yourself and enjoy yourself together. What's going to happen next? Even I want to know, and I haven't even read the beginning! It's that clear that there is joy there. Work on punctuation and spelling separately. Do copywork, standing over shoulder with eraser. Or, whatever works. But let it all fly. This is of course one view, contradicting a few classical values, but still...

Are they taking lessons all together at the same time? It might be rough with only one board going, if so. If they are taking lessons separately or in pairs, then you only need one board the whole time. When you are done with a lesson, just put the tiles back for the next crew. I might be mistaken but to get the complete set of cards you need to get one student pack from level 1 and every other level up to where you are starting. I made the mistake of buying two student packs at level 2, where I am starting, with my twins. However, the student packs are just cards, which we use together, so the second student pack sits in shrinkwrap. I am glad I bought one level 1 student pack. Check out logic of english, too. I am wishing I went that way now, but it might just be greener grass eyes.

I have a question about LoE: is there good information about where in the curriculum to start, based on a students ability? I like this a lot about SWR, while AAS has been slow and awkward for me using it on 8 year old fairly good spellers (they tested at tension level N in SWR, with many correct spelling further on). I took the manuf. and others' advice to start with AAS level 2 but its not been great trying to catch up to my kids level. They got to their spelling level without consistent phonics and no knowledge of spelling rules in PS, so its a mixed bag getting back into phonics and a spelling program. I'm another one in the over-abundance of curricula camp. Just purchased SWR including dvds, and AAS at the same time. I am shamed, but since others were confessing... So far, I do find AAS somehow clunky and slow. I do however like using the tiles and so do my children, age 8 each. I think the SWR program looks sleek and beautiful in practice: I recommend the DVDs from Britta and Sanseri, however you can figure things out from the manual and what's on youtube. I agree the manual is put together terribly, however the info you need is in there and presented sequentially (although you have to skim through lots of distracting text designed to convince you of various values to the approach). The sleek, efficient delivery of SWR in practice is something you can get from the DVDs. Playing with letter tiles on magnetic boards is something you can set up for yourself. LoE looks good indeed but I can't justify buying it. Still some little devil in me wants to know about how it handles jumping into the curriculum according to spelling level of the kid.

A bump-- hope that's okay.

Hi there, I feel like I would like to understand a little about this technique and how to teach it, and even the philosophy of it (up to a point!). I am looking for online videos or anything where I can get the picture for what form drawing for kids is and especially about the teaching of it. Or, downloadable instruction books. I can't order regular books. any suggestions? I did find one online source but it did not give a preview and other sampled work was not specific in the way I am seeking. The video I found on youtube was a little too funky for me. Thanks a lot for any leads!

have to second the rec on reflex math. its a single, one year subscription and I just file basic arithmetic math facts away in my mind-- done!! the games are fun and really work. for some games the kids have to turn the sound off to keep the excitement at a tolerable level! I dont like the store in the game so much, kind of teaches: do math well and you'll make money to buy clothes and accessories. Consumer training. I recommend not letting the kid play in the store. the parent tracking is easy: a simple graphic displays how fluent they are getting and what math facts they have mastered. my two favorite, super fun resources are reflexmath and bbc dance mat typing (the latter, free) cheers!

Thanks! I bet it's true about which one you learn first being the fastest. I think I read that brain book but will look into it again on the research on penmanship. I am an anything goes, creative type person but for some reason I find comfort in teaching the children neat and orderly things, probably because it makes me feel like I am getting results and that this homeschooling thing is under control. It's very difficult to feel your hard work is paying off when you are just letting everyone explore and express-- but that does not mean that your feeling equates with what is best.

I meant I was not looking for *purely* logical arguments (because while something may seem logical, it might not be true). Hope you are kidding about running an experiment on my children!! :) In any case, two is not a big sample, and they are not identical twins. I am looking for some extra motivation since I spend a lot of time on cursive and although I enjoy it, I have some other difficult issues to deal with and I don't want to misdirect too much time and effort. Right now the pro-cursive statement that is sticking in my mind, despite the fact that I can't find a supportive study, goes something like this (from Blumenthal, I think): "Nothing so boosts the self-esteem of a student than good penmanship." (approx. quote) So I am picturing my boy going back to public school, which he will probably go back to next year, and they introduce the kids to cursive (which they do in 3rd grade), and he already writes cursive beautifully and fluently. This might counteract the negative messages he got his first year when all the kids were publicly compared on their reading words per minute rate (among other disasters). Of course, being able to keep up in reading would also help him to adopt the idea that he is smart, which he does not have now and the lack of which I feel (actually, "know" would be a better word) is debilitating. So, I am a little torn about spending the time on something he may well instantly abandon the first chance he gets (cursive).

Thanks! Those links are helpful and I definitely do want the comprehension book you recommend. I am also looking into applying reading workshop strategies at home, but it seems a major part of it 1) is having friends with similar interests to share with and getting excited that way (and we don't have natural excitement in 1/2 of my duo) and 2) having access to a lot of interesting, attractive books (I don't have access to English library or bookstores). So, that is a little tricky.

Hi there, For some unexplicable reason, I am just loving teaching my twin 8 year olds cursive. Maybe it's because I can see tangible results? In "cursive first" arguments, it's often stated that cursive is faster. It's not for me, but I abandoned it at some point long ago. Is there any evidence that cursive is faster? I am not looking for logical arguments, like: shorthand is like cursive so that shows cursive is better than manuscript. Also, not looking for answers like: it depends which you practice the most, etc. I am thinking more of, all things being equal (as in science experiments), which is faster? I assume like everything else in education this has been studied semi-scientifically. So is there evidence that it is faster? Just really curious, since I will continue cursive for sure either way. thanks! Alan

Hi, These McCall-Crabbs readers, recommended by Spell to Write and Read curriculum, look good (in online samples) for my kid because of the clever inferential questions and the short text selections. My reader is average an 8 year old boy, although he might be slightly below average of the homeschooled kids here. Most reading tests would inflate his reading ability to 3-4 grade-- for some reason most publishers label their grade level above what it should be. I was wondering if there were other readers like McCall-Crabbs. I've browsed lots, and none of them are thinking carefully enough about the questions, nor do they seem to make slightly tricky questions that encourage thought. (I guess I would except from that comment the V/V workbooks I have: these questions are carefully designed for specific purposes.) So anyways-- can you recommend short reading comprehension with questions that are cleverly and purposefully designed? I am looking for variety and also I can't afford to send the McCall-Crabbs overseas to myself right now. Thanks!

Thanks. Those are helpful replies, helping to clear up things. I also watched the LOE videos and see it is not an endless amount of rules. It seems a little better. I found more youtube videos that showed the method a bit more. Just got the SWR materials in the mail today. Hmm... what to say... mercy me, I think I need to post a new thread.

Hey, that's the ticket! The #4 file cleared a lot up for me. I will probably have more questions after reading it more carefully, and then again after implementing it. But now at least I have an idea of how the syllabary is used. Thanks! One question for Elizabeth or anyone: any ideas about where to get multi-syllable reading practice text (or, some in depth curriculum perhaps) for elementary readers? Elizabeth has some practice stuff on her site, and I was wondering where I could get more. I will probably use such text with Dancing Bears-style cursor work. Free or paid material is okay... (of course we all like free the best.) thanks, Alan

I don't get what the big deal is. I admit I don't know what curriculum these letters stand for, but can't God be a cause, and a real thing, and fit into this definition for scientific thinking? Or is it, as I am reading it, that the author assumes there is one and only one way to put information together and we have already discovered it perfectly and it is simple and obvious. I am asking truly because I want to understand the viewpoint here... thanks! Alan

the video, which I link in the reply above, says it is by a SWR certified instructor.

Here is an example from youtube, from a morningstar video, i think: The boy is sounding out phonemes plus spelling rules. So, my question was about doing drills where the kid is reciting tons of rules, some of them "long formulas" like in this video. Sorry if I got the wrong impression, but since this video was issued by the SWR company, I thought it demonstrated the method. And, I was wondering about the time it would take to be trained to rattle off these rules-- some of them quite lengthy, and in any case numerous-- the way the boy is doing in this video. So, I gather, this is not how the method works? They don't recite rules like in this video?

Thanks! That's a lot to think about. One thing: Is LoE not for K5? I saw someone posting that a K5 version is in the works. Of course, it can be used at a slow pace no matter where it is geared, but I would like to know anyway. My kids are newly 8 and have a phonics background corrupted by speed reading pressures. They have only done wordlist spelling memorizations in school. I saw a video of SWR in practice in which it seemed tiny kids were memorizing long formulas of spelling rules. The rules are likely to be the same in LoE more or less. This seems like a ton of work, to memorize all the words as sentences/formulas. Am I right about this? Hate to go off topic, but now it is making me think All About Writing might be better. What I liked about SWR philosophy however is the use of sound being translated by the kid into phonemes while writing. Kind of confused now... but no matter.

I think what I am looking for is very specific about how a session would play out. I notice from the thread that is says, teach FE FI FO FUM or whatever, but I am wondering about how to teach it best. Like, write it out for them, sound it out, memorize and test them verbally, etc. I am working on a makeover of PS educated 8 year olds.

or Syllabaries for Dummies? I have looked through Don Potter's site and have become interested in Webster's spelling book and syllabaries. But, I am clueless about how to teach a syllabary, and also cannot make heads or tails of how to use Webster's spelling books either. Any suggestions for hand-holding, coddling, me through the process. I especially like pictures and videos, but of course am willing to read (or else I would be a hypocrite). Also, online resources are best for me because I am overseas. thanks, Alan

Thanks Elizabeth, I realize it was your article (which I mistitled) that got me started on the phonics end of this problem. Thanks for the links, since I did not get many of them off your site for some reason. This is going to be a great help in the end. To Kalanamak: Great! That sounds awesome. I'm jealous. I wish my child liked to do read aloud with me (and, I keep insisting, I am an entertaining reader!), and wish that he liked audiobooks too. I wish there was just some little sliver of a way in. I would go with that too, and relax about the rest. Your attitude is great and (although I don't need to tell you) I am sure it will work out great. It's also helpful if your kid seems to be like you were when you were little, it certainly helps feeling confident about the future. I however have to go with my instincts and do what I can to help him while the helping's still good.

Hi there, I am wondering about the differences between these. I looked at Logic of English manuals and the sample pages I saw were strange lists and bullet point instructions that I could not decipher. I admit I was a bit tired when I looked. I have heard that SWR is difficult to understand, but I feel I probably can do it, though having to prepare less and get going faster is always a plus. Is LoE easier or better in any other way? It did not look easy in the sample pages but perhaps because I did not understand the meaning of the items in the outlines I saw there. Experiences? Preferences? Biases? Prejudices? Hateful spiteful vindictiveness and rising bile at the mere mention of one, the other, or both?