Hi Xuzi, So glad I read your post. I have faced the EXACT same problem (I think-- of course go forward with eye exams, etc.) at the exact same age-- on the cusp of 8 years old. Interestingly, I have twin boy and girl, the girl not having trouble with comprehension and the boy having it. I was totally PSYCHED! to get started with WTM and Charlotte Mason-- but my son just drew a blank. Sure I broke it down sentence by sentence just like you, but when was it going to come together? He could read okay but wasn't processing anything. Here's what I did: Visualizing and Verbalizing-- I ordered the workbooks but turned them into oral exercises. Unfortunately I did not buy the manual due to financial constraints at the time so did not really know the method-- but just having visual and sensory rich text to work with and strategic questions to ask seemed to be helpful in itself. Perhaps with the manual this will be a very effective program although I imagine that it will take some thoughtfulness and trial and error to put it into practice on one's own. But I could be wrong and it might be quite easy and straightforward. Most V/V materials have something it calls HOT questions (higher order thinking questions) which are VERY well-designed, brilliant even, and make the rest of the workbook or other book well worth the price. The questions are a step above those in most reading comprehension workbooks and specifically engage the ability to visualize. And yes, there are plenty of at-home materials available-- probably the workbooks and the manual would be a good buy. IdeaChain-- this is an out of the box program and if you want to throw money at the problem (over $200-300 with shipping-- I forget now), then I do recommend you throw it, open the box when it arrives, and go. Since you mentioned "centers" then it sounds like you are willing. IdeaChain has a scripted curriculum designed to encourage visualization in reading and writing, with lots of activities that are game-like. As you do it, it just makes plain sense. It's been described on the boards here as the scripted version of V/V, which may be true, but it's obvious that a lot of very specific thought and first hand experience has been applied to it. Unfortunately no samples are available, although it has a full no hassle money back guarantee. The reason being-- once you learn how to do it there is no reason to buy the product. The company tries hard to package the product in a binder with accessories etc. to make it look physically worth the price, but the fact is that you are buying an idea, and a script. The idea and script is worth the money in results, just not in how it looks. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I know how you feel. While my son has not become a willing reader, his comprehension has improved dramatically. Like everything else we do, however, I can't say for sure why-- was it the programs? did he just grow out of it? what would have happened if I didn't do V/V and IdeaChain? I have no way of knowing. At least we all feel better about reading!

BBC dancemat typing is the best typing instructor out there, the most fun, and it's free. I can see a lot of benefit to getting kids typing properly as soon as they desire to, which is probably very soon. I am kind of wondering about looking for computer skills: is that really necessary? I try to limit my kids time with computers and have never taught them a thing, on purpose, hoping that will further limit them. Nevertheless they seem to figure their way around computers no problem. Kids take to computers like fish to water. I can't imagine any reason to want to develop computer skills unless it is to gradually introduce them to computer programming, which does have elementary logic processing skills that can be introduced at an early age, similar to how you can introduce algebra, calculus very early as well.

My kids used it on and off for at least a couple years. I definitely wouldn't use it as a stand alone, and in fact I am not sure how they benefited from it at all-- its just impossible to tell what would have happened if they never did it. But I don't think any computer program can stand in for a full curriculum. If your kid really likes it over the long term, and you have the time to spare and its not competing with another kind of math program for attention, then I think its got to be a great benefit. How great? Who knows?

BBC's dancemat typing is by far the most fun. True, at some point one will outgrow it, but it is definitely the best way to begin. I also have typing instructor and will go with that at higher levels, but my kids prefer dancemat far more, and its not hard to see why when comparing the play in either of them. I have seen a lot of other feedback where kids chose dancemat over other programs. Don't let the low price tag of Dancemat fool you into thinking it's not as good as others-- it's the best (it's free, with no ploys to get you into a higher priced version).

Thanks, getting to hear what you have to say gives me some feel for it. My kids are both 8, going into 3rd grade which I hear has a lot of homework. They were in PS for 1st grade and the homework was way too easy even though I hadn't taught them anything in HS at that point. Now they are definitely way ahead in math, at least. I have one kid who benefits from math drills and one that shuts down (or rather, turns on in another direction-- her completely wild imagination and quirky behavior) and definitely its not good for her. They both would personally appreciate easy reading homework and easy math homework rather than challenging. This is not really about the boredom aspect but just about the fact that homework time is a time we have to intervene and do HS, and why waste that time with PS stuff when they've already spent the whole day in there? I have to admit I have done their homework before, but now that they are getting older I worry about the example it sets. But that's now, thinking about it. In the heat of the battle, I always do what I have to do. thanks for your insights, Alan ps I won't have internet access for a few days so I'll probably disappear from this thread before it dies down. But I will check back and read it when its long gone, and thanks again.

I was wondering what your experiences with this are? Have you asked? What do you say? Any anecdotes? I don't want to be a snob or insult the teacher. Has it ever backfired for you? I was also thinking of doing my kids homework for them, and substituting our own just between ourselves-- but it's not worth it for me because of the bad example it shows.

can you say what was disappointing about it? It was super expensive... and i went on a hunch. uh-oh!

I thought I saw people talking about MCT math, but maybe they were talking about two things at the same time and I got confused.

what is MCT ?

I agree that he probably needs the HIG at level 3A or else some other guidance to learn the concepts around multiplication and division. I think it is always great to go back and cement the basic idea down. If you don't, your boy will eventually learn to do the mult and div anyway, but it might be only by knowing how to perform the techniques on paper rather than getting the concept. For division, I highly recommend you look at crewton ramone's video on youtube about division (or, I might have seen it on the $5 for 3 months pay site), where he passionately argues against the normal division algorithm we all learned in school. I also recommend a free trial at smarttutor.com, don't do the assessment, and just assign 3rd grade mult and div lessons to your kid for two weeks and not bother with the language arts or other math. It is pretty easy and painless to get across mult and div concepts with computer's moving pictures. If the level is too high, just go with 2nd grade. After a couple weeks of that, you might try reflexmath.com to get the math facts memorized in fun games, if he's allowed to play games. It's just a major headache to attempt long division without the math facts in place, although the concept of division can be taught any time. I think confidence is important to build up in math

That concerns me. I am just starting Rightstart, doing transitions and my distractable daughter just loves the abacus and all things Rightstart-- but it concerns me that there is not much long division, since this is something I was hoping Rightstart will make into something fun. We just have transitions and games now and no level worksheets or text. We are going to start with D which is below their level on computation I think but will be good for the transition. But not much division on D or even E? Really? :glare:

I enjoyed the one read by the author. However, it does not have all the extras that you are looking for, which I also like to have. Some people don't like the author's version, from reviews, but it is an excellent reading and communicates the warmth of the book-- just not a flamboyant actor's read.

You would need to fit your printer with external ink cartridges to by-pass the manufacturer's inflated ink monopoly. Then, just pour in inexpensive ink as needed. Every homeschooler should probably have such a printer outfitted. Not sure about how much the card stock would cost though.

Well I was thinking if there was only a digital product it would not be too much trouble to print out cards on cardstock, and then you would definitely have to laminate them-- you'd wind up with a similar result I guess. As for Marie's Words-- the sample cards definitely seem a bit much for 5+, but if I was the seller, hey, why not target the biggest age range... Also, an important distinction with VV (maybe someone said this already, dont remember) is that Marie's Words seem to be just about making visual puns that stick in the mind-- for singular words individually, while VV is about chains of association between words and their sources and derivatives. MW does not seem as valuable to me for young children because recalling the meaning of a word brings up an association with an almost random, unrelated visual pun from the card, whereas in VV as far as I can tell, the associations have to do with the way our language patterns meaning, and the visual component refers directly to those meaning-associations, thus the meaningful structures are accessed and trained, which should be a deeper learning that lays a foundation for acquisition of further abilities to grok associations in the future. This seems certainly more appropriate for young learners. However, there's nothing wrong with puns, pictures, and words in the other case-- that takes intelligence too, to decode them like puzzles.... so it's all good.

Marie's words seems great and at a great price-- but also seems it is a bit advanced for little ones? Looks like SAT prep, or am I missing something? I did go ahead and order VV with the discount, but haven't been home yet to see it.

About the crewton ramone mega kits and how long you could use them for: that would depend on the workbooks. the smiley face workbooks look really great but they wont last too long-- not past 1st grade i should think. The level 1 workbooks set could be started by a 1st grader or younger I think-- I forget what he said, but I imagine then that it would not last too long either. The rest of the time you would need to comb through his video lessons and I dont know what you'ld do for workbooks, etc. So its hard to say how far level 3 workbooks would go, and if you need a text book-like parents manual, how you would feel without one. These are only my impressions... not my experience.

yeah, a couple days later and I'm not as excited, due to the price. I emailed them too but it's sunday still. we'll see if I go for it-- wish I could get a better sense of what I'd get and the implementation of it too.

I found this review, and it mentions the company gives 10% DISCOUNT if you email them first and mention this review (read down to the bottom of the review for details)-- dated may 2012 so pretty recent. http://www.blueskiesacademy.com/2012/05/visual-vocabulary-giveaway/ Also, there are pictures of what you get, which, surprisingly, the company doesn't have on the website. Guess they're not a very visual business! I am thinking of buying this expensive program-- but the words in the samples seem quite advanced for my 8 year olds and I find it unlikely that they would use these words on their own. That also makes me wonder about long term retention. I do see however some definite potential for kids seeing how words are built from roots-- the principle of it-- which I think will make them realize later that big words are just little words, with some extra assembly. I think even without retention this program would make the whole experience of big words less intimidating when kids get to the point where they begin to encounter them often, around 8-9 I think. Also, if you have a kid who just loves to learn and use new words, big girl and big boy words or grown up words-- I suppose there are such kids-- then this would be a sure bet. Can anyone who has used the program provide some specific description of their experiences? That would be so awesome!! thanks so much, Alan

My 8yo is doing mindbenders 2 and loving it, so I was wondering if other parents who have kids that loved mindbenders can recommend anything (cause maybe mine is similar). I had two questions really: 1. Is there anything in particular from Critical Thinking Company that you recommend, not necessarily mindbenders, but that your mindbenderloving kid also loved? Like is Reading Detective fun for them? (seems standard Rcomp to me, though) Or is there any special appeal for their big full color LA and Math curriculum books (they also seem pretty standard to me). 2. Just anything in general that your mindbenderloving kid loved, from anywhere and anything. thanks! :bigear:

Hi there, I am looking for an art curriculum for 1 very arty new 8yo and 1 sort of arty 8yo. I liked the idea initially the two DVD series I found, Atelier and another one with a title something to do with light, but the Atelier seemed too crafty for me, while the other one had kind of what seemed like a marketing gimmick with the bible in it. Artistic pursuits looks good, but the K-3 curriculum looks almost preschoolish in the sample projects and my arty one might feel underwhelmed (or maybe vaguely insulted) by it, while I felt there 4-6 grade stuff was too much for them. Anyone know if the K-3 might be okay for an arty 8yo? I realize this is within the recommended age group by the ones who are selling it. Any other recommendations?

Mamma2Luke, how about trying that bell exercise I described, once a day? It only takes the time it takes for the sound to fade (it's good to get a nice bell, or, say, a tuning fork from scientific supplies that can be used later in physics experiments). The point of it is to get near 100% continuous focus for just a few seconds, in a fun way. At the same time, it's not active game playing focus which our wiggly ones can all do, I bet. It's very specific training, an interruption in the usual flow of action, and it is not too long (although there will be, with our little ones, certain times when even this is impossible). Of course these few seconds do not train directly the 15-30 min. of attention we need for a lesson, but it does work on one aspect of attention, while other things we do can work on other aspects. Also I forgot to say that 15 min of cursive copywork, and copywork in general, possibly with continuous standing over shoulder, is also great training because they have something to do with their hands and it is not a distracting thing to do with the hands. ALSO FORGOT: I think some of us here are talking about 6 year olds! That's VERY young. Mine is 8 and it is time to start to get down to business. At 6 you've got to allow for some wildness, I think. Just get them going in the right direction, that's all, toward a little more focus, a little more ability to settle. As long as it keeps going more or less in the right direction it will get there, I say.

I feel bad that I seem like I am the almost the only one who resorts to being firm, so glad to hear there are others. I know it is okay because of the relationship I have with my son and his eagerness to please, and that he gives way and settles down in the end, and makes progress over time in his ability to do that (he is older, at 8). I can imagine it's not good if the struggle is perpetual and no progress made. I think sometimes (only sometimes) little tricks and techniques might be avoiding something as elementary as instilling some respect for simple parental authority. But everyone will interpret that in different ways-- some maybe way too firm and others too lax. I think the important thing is definitely not to have a perpetual struggle going though. I bet to much authority can show up later in drugs and rebellion, etc. One trick, now that I dissed tricks, that helps takes less than a minute: Sit down, eyes closed, my son listens while I ring a bell once (like, donnnnnnnng....). He sees how long he can hear the sound continuously until the bell sound fades out. He is to try and raise his hand at the exact moment he hears the sound disappear completely. Done with other kids at the same time, it's just as fun. This little game, done in perfect stillness, is good practice that does not tax his stillness capabilities, but trains attention and continuity of attention.

ElizabethB, above, is who I was referring to in my previous post. Thanks for coming!

Hey you've come to the right place! I have cured an 8-yr old word guesser who was "ruined" in PS. First, yes, Dancing Bears. It combines simple phonics drills with a phonics based (crappy) stories to read. Key to success with Dancing Bears-- follow the instructions to keep it 10 min a day, lively and snappy. Then the crappy stories won't matter. The other key is getting a "feel" for using the cursor, not revealing too much too fast to train the eyes to see left to right, one letter at a time, but not too slow as to ruin the snappy pace. The cursor is just a card with a corner cut out-- you can make your own cursor and do the same thing with any phonics based text. Second: after some work with that, get in on nonsense reading, or old english which is nonsense to us. Some samples are on a site made by one of our posters here. If you look up "syllabary" I know you will see her chiming in and then find a link to her site. Another fun source for nonsense words are little card games produced by Teachers Pay Teachers, where you can download cheap PDFs made by teachers all over the country. Some searching may turn up these cards, which can be incorporated into many board games or other games if you use some logic (the suggested game rules are kind of lame). As words become longer and more complicated, this sight guessing becomes a HUGE problem, so I commend you on your quest to cure it. Very doable! Oh, I forgot to add that it also helped to explain to my son why we were doing it. I guess it depends on the kid how to explain it but it helped that he also consciously understood that he shouldn't be guessing and that we were practicing to help him read in the "right" way (although of course, we all sight read eventually-- I think-- or perhaps that is for neuroscience and further research to determine).

yes, i have the same thing in my 8 yr old son. he seems like everyone else's active one, but having objects to fidget hold in hand, or balls to sit on, or whatever, trampolines, etc.... these things will just occupy the attention. Also no amount of exercise will wear him down. I just want to acknowledge this first, since that is the first thing you asked. What to do? Some chair he can move around in is not going to help. So far the only thing I have been able to do is be very firm. Keep commanding to sit up straight, sit still, listen, pay attention, hands where I can see them... these are things I say a lot. I also get disturbed about it, which disturbs him enough to want to avoid that (and I do hate so much having the fear of my wrath be so integral to the learning process). There has been a lot conflict, but I am winning and there is progress. He's starting to get that in learning it is expected that you buy in 100 %. I really wish it didn't have to be a contest of the wills. But that is the only thing I could figure out to do-- every other advice didn't work. I am watching this thread hoping to find some advice, like you, so that I can abandon my approach, but I fear it's just going to be the same kind of advice like do math while balancing on a ledge, etc. At least, I can recommend a lot of simon says games (and switching roles) which somehow relieves the tension of our struggle a bit.