I want to get this book but there is a huge price difference. Anyone know how much better Edition 2 is? I think 1 is 1991 and the other 2007. What would I be missing? It's 15$ vs 63. Thing is, sometimes just one exercise or technique can turn into a pot of gold, otherwise it is an obvious choice.

I agree with the audiobook suggestion, and would also suggest the visualizing program-- I forget the name even though I used it-- it's not visualizing and verbalizing, but like it, and more of an open and go program, scripted, and consists mostly of games. My reading hater did not hate this program and definitely developed a marked ability to visualize as he reads. He also had trouble following read alouds and audiobooks, but now has a vivid inner experience. This focuses mostly on inner experience which makes reading easier to comprehend and also makes it more enjoyable. Sorry for not searching for the title, but I know someone else has it on the tip of their tongue and will chime in.

Thanks! that is encouraging. My kids currently like Magic Treehouse audiobooks but we are rapidly approaching book 35, when it gets super expensive. it took a while to get my boy to be able to follow the story. not a year ago, we had to start with frog and toad. The pro.blem with HP1 is he simply cannot follow the language and also there is a lot of description and little action-- it's just too advanced for him even though he is 9. I haven't tried the audiobook, but only read to him. I don't have the fortitude to read a whole lot especially if they don't understand. Many a time I have read myself breathless only to discover that they did not understand anything. but a steady regimen of tandem MT audiobooks and reading might work as I already know they can follow it.

I haven't done the best job since early childhood to cultivate a joy in reading, and my newly 9yr old twin b&g are not like the prodigies of many WTM forum members (or they seem like reading prodigies compared to my kids). I was thinking of trying to make them physically read while listening to audiobooks. Starting with Magic Treehouse, and hoping to work up some day to Harry Potter. Currently they are unable to listen to even HP book 1 at 9 years old, and I read to children very well. Is there any reason this audibook/book pairing would be a bad idea, good idea long term? I tried it once with my non- reluctant reader and she had fun. Not tried it yet on reluctant boy. anyone else tried this or what do you think based on your teaching theories?

I'll answer slightly differently since the others said all the important things already. And different than the obvious answer which is if you don't like it, you'll think it's not worth the money, but if you do, it will seem worth it. What I would say, like the program or not, is you won't feel you got ripped off slightly or what you get is a bunch of padded out fluffed up notmuchingness. There is a lot there, extremely elaborated and thought out. it is rigorous and substantial. It's meaty, etc. You might not like it, but it is substantial.

Yeah, jumpin on the bandwagon here: the best thing you can do is encourage drawing pictures and putting some words on them. Taking narration from them could be great-- as in they tell you things about stuff you read or anything really and you write them down for them (sorry if I'm saying things you know). Short dictation as long as there is zero frustration. A great book for the right approach is the book titled "no more I'm done" I will beg to differ a bit with the others here and say that it is possible that you may be picking up on a reluctance to write that might become a problem in the future. I agree it is almost impossible to tell at this age. But just in case you are right, then that makes it all the more important that you ease into it and make sure it is fun now. I DEEPLY regret every time i pushed my kids in the past and now experience the effects in reluctance later. I am doing IEW now with my 3rd graders and even now it is a bit much-- I intersperse it with a lot of fun, informal low expectation stuff. I think it is an excellent program though.

Hi, I don't know how much help I can be, but I just got back from a year in Thailand where I had to take over the English instruction even though my two 2nd graders went to an english curric school there-- kind of makeshift and they were the only native speakers. It looks like your kids are on track with reading-- much better than mine. So at least you are not catching up. I think a natural writer will do well with bravewriter. If he's motivated and creative-- but only if you are too! IEW is also excellent and can be done in short chunks, and contains grammar lessons implicitly (although it also reveals gaps which it doesnt fill but at least lets you know what you need to teach). I would also highly recomend the book "No More 'I'm Done!'" I am a fan of fasttrack for my boy with reading problems (sight-guessing). It's simple, easy, fast, and effective. I wonder if it is necessary for yours though, since Frog and Toad is great reading at 6 (in my reality, maybe not in other families on the board here)? Still, it could be a great use of 15 min a day-- but why fasttrack and not just start with A? He's only six-- but hey, wish my boy was like that. I wonder about spelling these days-- will it just work itself out someday in the future? I put a lot of effort into spelling programs like AAS and the like, and they retained what they learned. But somehow I'm left wondering if it was worth the effort. We don't miss it now that it is gone. Well at least one thing I can help with: age 6 is a very impressionable age for young kids, regarding various philosophical matters. I am almost ready to let my 8 year olds encounter most any concepts out there and ask questions and such, but only because at age 6 and 7 I set things up in a certain way. I am convinced that our first "deep" conversations at that age were formative and I still feel their presence in how they process things now.

Today in our afterschool writing activity, for the first time I had to justify doing more school after school to my 3rd graders, who are very obedient. I talked a bit about college. My daughter countered that "Doctors don't have to know how to write," and my son, "Do builders need to write?" Of course I came up with answers, and they seemed to think college was important. My son also offered, "Will this make writing easier?" And he seemed motivated by this. I said, "It will make 4th grade easier too," which got him to sit down at the table. So that went well, but what about next time? How do you do it? How do you get your kids to buy into afterschooling? I imagine it's not a problem with some eager kids, but mine are not like that. Thanks for your suggestions and reports! I need all the tricks up my sleeve I can get. ps I have obedient kids, twin boy and girl in 3rd grade accelerated class, which makes PS barely tolerable. The math is so-so state standards, too simple for my kids (but they're not complaining about easy-- they like easy). The language arts is challenging for my boy and I kind of forced the district to put him in the class, along with a lot of secret training him in taking cognitive abilities tests. In any case, the education is not stellar, but better than the awful general class, and I still want to supplement, currently working only on writing a few days a week, especially weekends, breaks, etc. because the writing is probably the worst in terms of how it is taught (or not taught), and I have a belief or sense that writing is the road to language arts success for my boy who is not great at reading or verbal expression.

I am just starting my currently after schooled 3rd graders on IEW. On the simple question of whether IEW is worth the money, and taking out of the equation the possibility that you don't like it, then, yes, IEW is definitely worth it. You don't get it in them ail and then think, this is really nothing! I can't believe I paid all that money for this. It's a very elaborate thing that is quite substantial, especially if you combine TWSS with a prepared curriculum sub-package like SWI-a. Of course you may not like it, but not because it is unsubstantial. If you like it, it is like having a heavy duty construction truck at your side helping you accomplish a lot. Wwe prepared curriculum is not an option For us because the vocabulary in the reading samples is way out of reach for my kids, while the copywork and dictation is perhaps a little too easy. This is a big problem with wwe for us. The whole wwe method itself may be good though, where you use SWB methods on your own source material-- but then it's your whole creation and you have to be extra disciplined and organized. I felt my less than stellar literary scholar son does well with copywork and dictation. After e few weeks of IEW, I am still a fan. I am a writing teacher myself for college, and belong philosophically to the creative exp<b></b>ression wing of writing instruction and do not shae many IEW values. But, I feel it's great that my 3rd grade barely writers are learning writing structures, as awkward and "unnatural" as it may seem. sometimes I feel it would be so much more easy if they started IEW at grade4. Other times aim grateful that we are starting now, and they are challenged to write in structured ways beyond their years, and have the proper guidance to do simply by following cleverly designed instructions. I feel that doing this at grade 3 is right, and that next year we can leave IEW behind and do something more independent and creative. I feel they are learning a can do attitude at an early age. But of course I do not and will never know whether doing it in 3rd or 4th will be best. These are some thoughts you might like to eavesdrop on! I should add that I do mix it up with IEW, interrupting it with more open ended writing sessions, then returning back to the curriculum where we left off. I think this is a must in any family that feels IEW is a little tedious. the other day we all sat down and wrote non-stop about our choice of kingdoms from Avatar the Last Airbender, then read them with no correcting and no evaluation and no expectations. it felt very much like my children were actually children.

I am getting this for christmas regardless, but was thinking of the student set for more educational value, but then also read the reviews which say it doesn't really have much in the way of helping to understand what is actually being done with the snap circuits. Do you have any thoughts on what, if anything, in the way of educational material is (such as scientific explanations for what the components actually do) included in the snap circuits, or is that something we would need to come up with ourselves separately?

Thanks! I am looking into all of these suggestions. Had a question: are there multiple stuart little books, or is the message above a typo about that? My kids loved stuart little but were very disappointed in the ending (or lack thereof). I looked in the Franny K. Stein and was cracking up reading the Amazon preview. That doesn't happen for me much or all. Hope my son will like it but know my daughter will. Haven't found anything quite like that for boys yet.

Thanks! I have a boy and girl twins, but it's the boy who basically did not hear much of anything at all during a read aloud. I think probably what you might read aloud for a 2nd grader might work for him, or perhaps what most would consider 3rd grade read to your self, that might work for read aloud to him. So it's a boy and probably you should think of him as 7 yrs. old. Something like Harry Potter-- forget about it, way too much. thanks again.

Hi there, I am looking for read alouds for my third graders, and unfortunately one of them pretty much draws a blank on the kinds of things you guys are probably reading to your third graders. One thing that worked well was My Father's Dragon series. Magic Treehouse is also good but we are listening on audiobook-- the author is a very effective reader. So, for my in-person readings what could I substitute that would be on the same level as Magic Treehouse, but definitely not above it? Thanks!

I think when you are thinking of dropping a lot of dollars on something like this, it is worth taking a good long look and a trial. Unfortunately reading a-z is marketed to teachers not hs-ers, and priced that way . still they did have a 14 day trial last time I looked and it allows you to download A LOT, especially if you are very diligent about downloading the daily max every day. You wind up with a lot of materials that will last quite a long time, as long as you are diligent in downloading the daily max and not missing a day. Then, you can make up your mind safely. While the reading is not high quality, it is leveled super precisely, so that you can get exactly the right level. I really liked that.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. Also, watchers should note that there is an IEW Yahoo group where there is some help as well, but somehow all the chiming in and just sheer numbers of experiences shared is a little bit better here at WTM. On the yahoo group, someone from IEW always sends fairly elaborate replies to all inquiries, which is also nice. I haven't done dress-ups since posting, but have been doing some more KWO and also working through story plot elements using KWO from easy sources (that I write) and then having them write new KWO and swap in elements like characters, problems, solutions, and endings. I think I will work on brainstorming the dress-ups before writing up from the KWO, rather than leaving them to work it in on the fly, and also will need to do separate teaching of the proper use of the dress-ups. My main constraining factor is that I do want to stick to SWI-A and so can't really skip the order of dress-up introduction too much or the order of activities. If I didn't stick to SWI then it would be different. I'm wondering: I cant find the file on dress-ups that mom31257 uploaded. Is this a different yahoo group than the IEW sponsored one? Or is it a sub-forum that you need special permission for? I will be doing the separate teaching with sample sentences just like described by the other posters. And I do have the e-version of the student help files which came with something else I ordered. Thanks a lot!

In a rush right now -- but yeah, that's what I'm talkin bout! Thanks and keep it coming. I'll be back later to respond. More....

Hi there, I am using IEW SWI-A with 3rd graders who are finding it a bit challenging, although with my editing they always wind up with great results. I like the SWI-A video mainly because, well, it's not me doing the talking. I also want to keep up the pace so the kids don't get bored, but the SWI is a little bit much to keep up with for them. My main thing is how to avoid learning how to do dress-ups only by trial and error. The Who/which clause and -ly words are hard for them to use correctly or to understand how. If I stick to the the SWI (which is what I want to do) this is a problem. I model, give examples, and help them as they are writing, but on their own they cannot actually do the dress-ups, except sometimes it works out or else by what seems like sheer luck (if you plop a "suddenly" in somewhere, there's a statistical chance that it will land in the right spot). Does anyone have an practical suggestions, tips, tricks for enabling the students to actually do the dress-ups so that they can perform the exercises and eventually move on? I expect this is not a problem for most kids.

I second the Dancing Bears. My little guy had same problems-- skipping, guessing, etc. Dancing Bears is the way. Because we started in 3rd we did the FastTrack option which is a combo of Level A/B, and are now doing C, although I rarely get around to it because the problems are virtually gone.

If short term memory is a problem, then chances are so are focus and concentration, and problem solving. I have one great suggestion, and one suggestion to contemplate. Both suggestions are about something obvious, but which might be taken really seriously: If short term memory is a problem, practice short term memory. This is essential for doing math work but also reading comprehension (as opposed to just decoding). It's in short term memory where all the processing of information is happening when problem solving. This is also a shout out to WTM: Go girl-- working on "grammar stage" memory is ALSO working on analytical reasoning because it is building a crucial capacity for analytical reasoning in the brain, which must store information and sort through it for it's brilliant insights and creative connections. "Rote" is not merely rote. Short term memory capacity can be trained and expanded. The fastest way that science knows to expand its capacity is to do so directly. So, for instance play memory games religiously. Daily training. The science is telling us 25 minutes every day is what is in order. And expand on that with: 1. get rightstart math games, and do all the memory card games especially. 2. and this one is something to think over and not jump into unless you have spare cash-- get into specific focus and memory training programs like Lumosity, AttendGo or iFocus. Lumosity (or maybe I am confusing it with AttendGo) is older (started with ADHD help) and I think is by subscription and may have a free trial. iFocus is an informercial overpriced product with a lot of hocus pocus hyping. Still, it's working on the latest science trends and closely focused on them without extra bells and whistles, is as easily available as any seen on TV program, may be more entertaining, and may work just as well or better than the others, who knows. The informercial really bugs me, which is why I hesitate to bring this up. But it could be a huge help. If it helps, then it being overpriced is not really a bad thing. Thing to keep in mind about #2 considering cost, is that this is like straight calisthenic physical fitness, but for the brain. In other words, it gets direct results, is tedious and boring, and you have to keep it up for, like...ever. If the kid has short term memory problems, difficulty with problem-solving (and reading comp can be a kind of problem solving just as a math equation is), and difficulty focusing and staying on task-- some serious training may be in order. And, if there is simply a specific problem here with short term memory, it is very solvable and the results will seem miraculous (but only, of course, if that is the one and only problem). Remember first line of attack: memory games and rightstart memory games. Then, maybe more. Ask me if you want more info about so-called "brain-training." Hope this helps! Writerdaddy

Thanks, that's really helpful. I see now how it is. I think nothing at all would be challenging word-wise, but I don't mind coming up with alternatives. thanks!

Hi there, from reading Hunter's recent post I learned for the first time that LOE is available as a download now, and in chunks too, if you want. I know I could search this on my own-- but is LOE appropriate for 3rd graders who are good spellers already? And, would one definitely download the first chapters first, or could it make sense to skip them and down load different chapters. I'm looking for a good chance to try out LOE cheap, but want to make sure I download the right stuff (for instance, download the beginning portion for 15.00 and realize I immediately need the next portion). thanks!

I think Atelier is great. Read the materials list and gather (not hard or expensive), press play, make art. Projects always turn out, in the eyes of the kids, to be surprisingly better than they ever thought they could do. which just creates all kinds of joy and momentum. also try out the free drawing lessons from... who is it again? Drawing in 3d forgot his name now. He is super fun, though you have to press pause a lot cause he goes really fast.

Yes I do want them to feel confident and that it is easy. That is why I will work on unit 1 and 2 a bit with custom materials and use all these suggestions from the forum to transition into SWI-A when I am sure they are ready. I agree that you should start out strong and grounded and unconfused. Of course, one could linger too long too, so it's great to sound that out here. At this point, I think they will be ready at some point soon. Unit 1 is not really that hard-- you just have to "get it" including what the point of it is and what you are being asked to do. The kids dont quite get what they are being asked to do. Once they do know, they will be able to comply easily, I think. And this can be built up from easy materials. I have watched the videos and also did one-on-one work with the kids and know that they would be basically copying along mechanically with Andrew P rather than really processing it. Instead, I will start SWI-A when the beginning of the video is easy, and it is all familiar and review. Then at some point SWI-A will get into new territory, be challenging, but they have momentum and like the program and feel confident. Also I want them to be watching Andrew P for quite a while to come, so i dont want to spoil the first "meeting" with it being hard. Pretty sure this will work!

The amount of videos is amazing, and growing. My kids love them and will watch them constantly if they could (as long as TV and internet browsers are disabled) I really feel Brainpop is almost essential for homeschoolers because it goes into so many nooks and crannies and variety of subjects and just plain exposure to a wash of facts and explanations-- if you ever worry that you are not covering enough or spending all your time on basic skills like reading, writing, and math, then you've got all this diverse input going on as well. I wouldn't do a homeschool curriculum based on it-- it's great value is as a rich supplement that is effortless. At $7 a month it is one of the best bargains out there for homeschoolers. You're doing enough work putting curriculums into action-- why pay $300, or whatever you say it is, to do more work? And is there going to be anything special or high quality about their worksheets, etc? Or aren't the companies who do curriculums the ones who do it well, and just leave the edutainment to brainpop. Even though I used that word edutainment I dont want to lump it in with all the others of that kind. It's really just engaging education really. It's not like a video game dressed up with a couple math equations or something. My only caution is that my kids seem to prefer to get their facts from brainpop than read them in a book. This is something to watch out for. Now that I put that down in words, I'm thinking-- hey, that's a pretty important consideration, maybe I should rethink brainpop a little. all the best, WD

Thanks for your replies and the various perspectives which circle around the same points. This is all helpful-- just trying to get a feel for experiences and insights which I can have in the back of my mind as I go forward. I'm definitely not returning anything. I like the SWI videos and think the kids will too, but they need to be up to speed with the older kids in the videos (even using the pause button a lot) for the best experience. That will take a couple weeks at least. On the level of SWI-A, I think it is pitched at 4th grade if you think of it as a plug and play, sit back and let the TV teach, smooth sailing type of program. But level A seems just right for a challenge for 3rd graders who are getting personalized assistance and thus learning a ton. I feel that the keywords exercise is great for reading comprehension too, and for getting a real good feel for the workings of grammar and sentence structure. For that reason, I do want them to start getting at the heart of the possible meanings of sentences and to not randomly spin off of them. But, I can totally understand the other approach: just letting them do what they will, as after all they are still making and building meaning and perhaps that's a great way for them to connect with writing and the program, and will evolve later-- kind of like the difference between CM narration and WTM narration. It all has to do with short and longer term goals and I have some short term goals for various reasons and think its totally doable to learn this skill. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions about this and other parts of the program so thanks again and in the future too.