The biggest problem, imo, with rebates as they apply to the poor is that the poor will have to pay taxes that they don't even owe (in the long run) and wait to be refunded. They don't have that kind of cash flow. That's an awful burden to put on them... Additionally, a family could take in the rebate but then go buy all their stuff second hand at garage sales and through bartering and what not, and end up getting back more than what they really put in via the purchase of necessities. I think it's entirely fair to say we're not going to tax food and basic necessities, btw. One of the proposals for this sort of tax even went as far as to say that there would be no tax on used automobiles, etc... only the new ones. That's the sort of thing I would consider getting behind.

No, don't recall saying anything like that... read my other posts to see what my thoughts are.

That's my recollection about the book, too. It's been a long, long time since I read it. Other than that I think the book is dated. Doesn't it predict a financial catastrophe before the turn of the century? I might be remembering wrong...

So the poverty level is a static number for any family, regardless of the number of children they have? Just think how much money and paper and trouble the govt would save if they just decided which items were tax free, just like states already do. And like our state does on tax-free weekend - things like clothing under a certain price point and school supplies are tax free. I am totally against complicating the consumption tax with all this rebate stuff. The only reason to do that would be to keep up with who and where everyone is. If they are capable of figuring out how much the average family needs to spend on necessities, then they are capable of figuring out what those necessities are and make them tax exempt.

But then again, that means everyone has to be registered somehow to get the rebate and that's what the whole idea is trying to get away from... What about people who live or work here who are on green cards, etc? What about migrant farm workers? No, I am against the rebate idea. They need to simply make certain things tax free. We have a sales tax free weekend in Texas and it migiht be a good model to use for this purpose... shoes under a certain price point are tax free, for example (in other words, if you can afford expensive shoes, you can afford the taxes on them). That's the only way I would support the idea.

The main criticism I have heard over the years about a flat sales tax is that it has the potential of raising taxes on the poor. If they currently pay little to no income tax, and now have to start paying tax on everything they buy, a larger percentage of their money will be going to taxes. I guess you can get around that by making certain items tax free, but they'd have to be very careful. Would diapers be tax free? What about clothing? Everyone needs clothing, even the poor. I think it could be worked out, but they'd have to be very careful.

Thanks, everyone. I have had the discussion with dd, and it went a little better than I anticipated. The main points I emphasized were geared towards reassuring her and making her feel safe and secure, and helping her to understand just how painful this must be so that she could be a good friend filled with compassion and encouragement (you know, teens tend to focus only on themselves), and that she could talk to us about anything, and that whilel we were going to support the family every way we could I didn't want her taking on the role of "fixer" because all she can do for her friend is listen, love and pray. And to not feel guilty about trying to get away from the situation if it started to overwhelm her. Come to me and we'd work it out. We both cried a little. But honestly, I don't think she's thought about it again since the conversation which I am thankful for... one of us having a meltdown is enough. It helps that she's in the middle of the twilight series... thank goodness for captivating books!! Thanks again, everyone for all the kind words and for putting up with my ranting and raving today. I'm so glad I got things off my chest here instead of IRL where everyone's nerves are as raw as mine. And I'm grateful the discussion is over. There was nothing left to say. Appreciate y'all! Robin

Boy, this topic sure attracted alot of posts! Who'd've thunk? LOL (pokin' fun, of course!)

This is a good question, because everytime I've done a garden, I think I've spent more ON the garden than I ever got out of it... it was not worth it at all except for the enjoyment.

I voted mystery/suspense. I also like true crime novels. I should have been a detective!! LOL

Another vote for taste. It tastes completely different.

Oh, Chris, I am so sorry... I can't imagine what sort of real trouble this might cause for him!

Unbelievable. That's why my niece quit teaching and went into the private sector. Ugh

That was my point. I agree.

I'm a cookbook junkie, too! I collect them. I rarely use them, but I sure do collect them! LOL

Patty, this is a very good point. Do you have any suggesions? What are some good techniques for getting out of a conversation once it becomes uncomfortable? I think it is very wise to give her a few tools in that regard. Thanks so much for the suggestion. And thanks so much to all who responded. Clearly I need to level with her now so I can be the one there when she first tries to come to grips with this. Robin

I'm really at a loss and need help thinking this through, because as someone in my other thread pointed out... I need to get beyond *my* reaction and keep a cool head so that I handle this properly with regards to the children, and my child as well. We have celebrated holidays and gone on vacations with this family... so it's not like they are distant acquaintances. Edited to removed certain information. Folks, the only reason why I posted a poll is because I am lazy and didn't want to have to count all the responses! LOL Also, I thought it would be easier for people to mark which choice they would make without having to spend time explaining their answer...

Oh my goodness, she's 7?????? I remember when you added the "one little lady" to your handle!! My, how time has flied! She's gorgeous, btw :). And so is the doll!! Robin

Prayers offered up, Chris.

No. I said I "figure" which means it's what I'm thinking. It is entirely speculation on my part. Of course, I am old enough to remember watching the Watergate hearings, so I've always *figured* there is corruption, on both sides, whether they've been caught or not.

Would you like to come see Christian Youth Theater's production of Peter Pan? The shows dates are the first two weekends in November. My daughter is a pirate! ARRR!! :) If you'd like more info, shoot me a pm... !! Robin

I figure it's rampant on both sides, and pretty much evens out in the end. ETA: Well, maybe not rampant... but I would be shocked if it *wasn't* going on. Everywhere.

LOL!! Flair can be clever, hilarious. Not a reason to do Facebook, but one thing I do like about it... (my dd has it, not me).

Ummmm.... you're assuming, of course, that looking "hot" was EVER a dream I dared to dream! LOL

Help me out here... how does unplugging a lamp when it is not turned on save electricity? Appliances that have clock displays or are operated by remote control still use electricity because they go into a passive mode. Things like lamps don't. So how does a lamp draw electricity when not in use?