If your student(s) likes challenges, I would opt for both and as many as possible in areas where the student doesn't have a personal project approach or trajectory not measurable with these exams. My (and ds3's) only regret is not realizing earlier for ds3 what benefits he could get from the AP exams. They grow up so fast that when they're in 8th grade, we can't really imagine what they'll be capable of doing even just 2 years later. And then if they like rising to challenges, the AP's give a framework. To summarize and break down possible reasons for taking either test as well as other considerations: 1. Meeting admissions requirements for a university. a. in the US b. in other parts of the world (just presuming this possibility from the words "opt for US") 2. Getting university credit a. to shorten total stay by possibly having enough credits to have one semester less b. to free up time/credits to take other courses, do double major, etc. 3. Challenging the student academically at home when DE is not an option. a. which level of study is more challenging? b. which test is more challenging? 4. Preparing for the exams. a. objectives b. materials available to prepare c. providers if you don't want to do it yourself 5. Price and timing of exams. 6. Other factors: a. you have a degree in the subject or a related subject and can fully prepare a course that a university would recognize due to your own credentials. b. you don't have a degree in the subject but are good at researching, have the time to research, and can get a tutor for questions you're unable to answer if you can't find answers online c. you outsource _______________________________________________________ 1. a. depends on the university - see other posts above and in other threads on the topic 1. b. - in the UK - both AP & SAT - search Laura Corin and others' posts about it - in DE - both, but need more - probably not possible with just HE search Matryoshka's posts - in CH - AP's. SAT II's not on radar. Good to have regular SAT just in case. - other countries - no personal knowledge, maybe others know? 2. Schools tend to give credit for AP's more often than SAT II's but I did start a thread about College credit for SAT II's - sometimes it's possible - I doubt you'd be able to get enough to start as a sophomore. But you could perhaps do some of both depending on the school. 3. a. clearly the material is more challenging for AP's. And even if sometimes students get a worse grade on the SAT (this happened for dd with German), it's because that material wasn't covered but not because overall there is more material covered on the SAT II. Since the width and breadth of AP's are more challenging, the coursework to prepare for them is also more interesting for students who want to learn more. Yes, there can be courses that are better overall - but for the common man these aren't a bad way to go...and even if the IB was available for HE, I'd still chose the AP's due to flexibility in testing years... b. clearly the AP exam is more difficult in terms of structure, amount of material tested. If they're going into higher education that is not just testing using MC questions - then they'll have more experience by practicing for the DBQ's, FRQ's, etc. Of course grading is exam specific, but you can get the scoring guidelines for old FRQ's and you can even see samples of how they have graded them. http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/exam/exam_information/1997.html 4. This is a big one! Someone just asked me for book recommendations for one of the SAT II tests - because there are no recent books published! - because there is no site where you can get itemized content for what is on the test. Yes, you can go on the CB website and find info like this below - but it's so general. a. objectives: eg from the CB website: https://sat.collegeboard.org/practice/sat-subject-test-preparation/mathematics-level-2 How the topics will be tested is wide open. And there is not "free" info like lots of practice tests, online resources listed by the CB such as you can find for AP's b. materials 1) by CB 2) online providers 3) books For AP's you can find TONS of info and course development aids. You can't find free syllabi preparing students for the SAT II exams like you can for AP's. So overall, you are quite dependent upon the SAT II prep books and if there isn't one for the subject you want tested, then you are in a pickle. c. If you don't want to prepare the student for the test yourself, you'll be hard pressed to find online courses which will do that specifically for the SAT II's...There are AP courses where you don't have make any decisions - as the teacher does all the work for you about book selection, etc. :-) 5. SAT II exams are cheaper than AP's and it's easier to find testing centers. As regentrude mentioned, you can take SAT II's throughout the year (except some language ones) - so easier to fit in...Then as you may have seen on a recent thread - taking two AP's in one day is possible but more difficult for some...don't know if dd would have been able. 6. a. even if we have a degree in one or two subjects, other subjects are lacking b. can make up for lacks above - there is lots of info for AP exam prep c. great option if you have the $$$ for AP courses though people are exploring some free options.

There are so many aspects of your comments that we could discuss.... A. But we agree that SAT 2 has a lower level of required knowledge than AP's right? so I don't understand your comment. ETA- I'll discuss this more below as I remember now your original point and this is a bit out of context... B. the "how do you know" was in relation to choosing a trusted provider that is preparing students for an exam that is measured externally, rather than choosing a provider whose only measure of work my student has done for them is their own assessment. Eg. dc take a course with someone who gives them an A. If I have zero knowledge of the material, how do I know the A is worth anything and that they weren't actually doing D work? But if they take the AP and get a good grade in addition to the A, then the A is worth more - I mean is more valid - right? It's been validated by an external source. If they get an A from the teacher and a 2 on the exam, then I'd have some doubts about the teacher....But it would take others' experiences to show whether or not it was just my dc. I've seen lots of "private school" providers whose grades aren't worth much. I agree that for my personal experience, I've already paid for the course, etc. But the school builds a reputation over time and as we all gain experience and grade the providers, those following will have a better idea of what they are paying for. (The value of the Hive!) Now, whether or not the student is 'ready' to take the AP course is another matter. As you mentioned, 20% could fail and it might not be a problem of the teacher. But again, it might be. Or it might be that there has to be a curve so that some fail. Such is the case with public school over here. They curve the standardized test so that only a few get the top grades. (I'm not really sure about the failing ones - what their actual grades were)

Interesting! But what are portfolios? Work done for the class that is graded officially and counted as part of the grade? I've heard of people doing the International versions of the GCSE's or A-levels due to no lab requirements for science for example (if my info is correct :-))

It seems like we need a few definitions and clarifications: Mastery - by whose definition? What is involved in mastery seems to depend on the prof, the country, the school, etc. Dd just took a test given for the basic level of the CH matu which had material not covered in the AP. But then again, there was lots and lots of material she covered for the AP that wasn't tested at all. Teaching to the test - dear regentrude, you are telling me that you don't "teach to the test"? While you aren't teaching to the AP, I'm pretty sure that you are teaching to some test.... You wouldn't just go online and take some other professors exams for physics and give them to your students without looking at them would you? (because if you look at them and see that the material is the same, it is the equivalent of you teaching to the test, it is just a test manufactured by someone else) While in your classes you might add in some extra material for fun, interest, or educational value, you basically would not just teach anything and then test them using some old test you found by some other teacher. The question really is - which test are you teaching to? You have SAT II's, AP's, and then tests for courses online or courses that you prepare yourself (DE is not in the question here)... What I was trying to say about coursework preparing for an exam is that I can cover various chapters in a biology book based on interest, experience, what I see as needed for basic information about a subject, mastery, etc. - but its somewhat subjective and "mastery" of the material is so 'subjective' as well because it all depends on how you test "mastery". For me, with such limited subject matter experience, I'd rather be preparing my students for tests which: a. are recognized by more people rather than fewer people. And while I can find lots of tests that others who have a degree in the subject have prepared for a subject, I don't have any degrees after my name besides a BS, and it would take a detailed course description which itemized where I'd found the tests to give any weight to their value. b. have standardized testing conditions (this is not the OP's question but just adding it for info) - how easy it is to retake tests, to cheat and prepare for a test by reviewing it in advance. With standardized tests, given under strict testing circumstances, there is much less room for cheating. So "superiority" for me is where the course is well-developed (which needs criteria in and of itself) and the test is related to material taught. And the AP courses given by well-known providers are 'superior' to what I myself would be able to do for the subjects that we used outside providers for. E.g.- giving an old AP calc exam can cause some problems as over the years, the topics have changed. BTW - even if the final AP exam results don't come in for a long time after the taking of the exam, there are tests given by the teachers along the way, old practice AP's, combinations of similar questions for material already covered, etc...It is not just the "final" test grade but the "whole process" of preparation with clear objectives. There are so many factors in this whole discussion that we're not addressing very clearly...

Just putting this out there for other internationals as one here got very poor info about AP test centers and ended up choosing a whole different route (A-levels). There are "lots" of AP test centers around the world. Unhappily, the AP info email resource doesn't always give you the most up to date info. But you can go onto AP Course Ledger and search by country. There you should realize that the info still might not be correct. The deadline for AP course renewal is what - January of the year of the exam? So they might not actually be teaching the course and therefore not giving the exam. *You should also know that in some cases, it is possible to get the CB to give the tests to another testing center that is not listed on the ledger for those who don't have access. I'm not sure of the process and should have saved the link, but it's worth researching if you're stuck. Also, some schools are willing to order AP exams for courses that they are not teaching. You don't have to have authorization for a course to give the exam.

Yes, I know another HE family who will apply in the UK but using US exam results. They find it easier to have higher level online courses for the US exams (they're using Stanford Online). I've heard there aren't as many uni bound HE students in the UK, so I think there are fewer options for test prep - though it is all still better than some other European countries' test/prep.

Even if a student is taking another course and ends up taking the SAT II's on the side, it is not like the course was specifically planned for that test. I think that's what she meant by the process. And what other online courses (besides MOOC's - but they don't have the same accountability) have a higher level of expectations? My impression is that you have lots of online courses but without some external 'measure' - how do you know what you are paying for? It's far too easy to give A's and B's for shoddy work....Just preparing for the AP's requires more work than most of the SAT's (except some parts of SAT II German in our experience). And then the AP's have greater diversity of questions - which require written work in addition to MC's rather than just MC's. I see that as a big plus in itself - any student can guess on MC's - but writing out FRQ's and DBQ's etc is another ballgame. SAT II's are just an hour long - nothing like the exams that high school students take over here that can last 3 hours.

One thing no one mentioned is that it seems easier to find online courses which are geared to preparing a student for the AP's...perhaps thats true for SAT II's and I just don't know? If we had to do it over again and were preparing for US uni's, I'd still have dc doing AP's - perhaps a mix if near a DE possibility...the level of study was higher than what I or others (as in other teachers for their AP's) did otherwise - and preparing for an exam motivated them more than I could. Now that it's 'over' - they see how they can approach and master material - with all the different AP courses, they got to see different teacher's approaches, etc...I think they're great for those of us who don't have access to DE courses or need AP's for uni entry (overseas).

Sorry, I misunderstood the way you phrased your question. I thought you were asking what comes after the book you linked which is 6e. So then it would be 5e. But now I see you say you were doing CM2, so then, yes, 6e comes after it.

Just came across this analysis of Princesse de Cleves http://commentairecompose.fr/la-princesse-de-cleves/la-princesse-de-cleves-analyse Maybe there are others like it... As for Literature Guides, there is the series Profil d'un oeuvre but they don't have activities...

The French sequence is 6e = 6th grade in the US 5e = 7th grade 4e = 8th 3e = 9th Then they go into 2e, 1e, Terminal - but there are various choices so see this: Wikipedia image of their system So the book you're looking for would be 5e

We did: British Lit (1/2) American Lit (1/2) World Lit (1/2) - excluding any French, Brit or American Lit and and a tiny bit for German. I wasn't thinking clearly at all as we did British Lit before American, even though we were doing American History in 9th and 10th and the AP Euro Hx in 11/12 (combined year). I would have matched history and lit better if I could do it again. As it was, in doing history, we did some Am Lit anyway but the separation of time/credits was too complicated to take it out.

Perhaps take two of each? When you say "the range of hs course material that you expect"....what are the essential elements that you expect? My guess is that some providers find it easier to just focus on one aspect. While I had the "typical" course in HS - I'm old enough that there weren't AP's even offered at our school, so the level we were working for was just SAT...good vocab, straightforward writing skills, etc. I think dd ended up with a higher level than myself doing AP Eng in 10th and now lots of literature in her last year.

Can you try to find situations in the real lives of people around you that are similar in some way? then help her see the similarities in whatever novel you're reading?

We'll be done at the end of May...It's hard to dial down after the AP's....no homework - "something's wrong"...there must be something more to be doing...But no, dd assures me that everything else is on schedule and that she's been working so hard so that now, she doesn't have to work so hard...Ok, I think I'm going to go and wash some sweaters I tell myself :-) (distraction and adjustment)

I'm glad this is getting discussed as I'd missed the previous "answer" as I was reading on email which doesn't show which part is a quote and didn't see that it was an answer about GaVS! and then I don't go through all the posts.... That's too bad about poor prep by them...Kind of strange - like they're not doing their homework... Thanks for answering!

For used books - I sometimes found it was cheaper to get Betterworldbooks via ABEbooks....They let you pick more books from the same seller which sometimes, but I think always with Betterworld, leads to discounted shipping. And sometimes I found that there were Betterworld books on ABE that weren't on the Betterworld site itself, or the pricing was different, etc... We didn't use that much Christian curricula but liked Rod and Staff for Grammar (doing a bunch of the exercises orally or they can get to be too much)....My views of some of the other suppliers changed over the years....TOG, I used only in partiality...but it's pricey....

I'm looking forward to trying this when I have an "empty classroom" and get to do more 'self-education'....which is coming up very soon :-)

It works for me. There are two ways to get it to work as it's not automatic. 1. If you quote someone, (on a laptop - I don't have a smartphone so don't know that way)...on the top right there are three options you can check - Post OptionsEnable emoticons? Enable signature? Follow this topic? If you don't check the last one, you won't get replies. 2. If you didn't quote someone to reply to the post, and just "Reply" at the bottom of a thread, you have to go to the top of the thread and click the button which says "Follow this Topic", then you get a choice, instantaneously, etc... For me it is strange as sometimes the "Option" of following is already checked and sometimes it's not. I haven't figured out the algorithm for when it gets checked or not. HTH,

1. If there's no "year" listed on the exam given to the "Auditors", then I think it's one that wasn't actually given - or a combination of ones that were, or perhaps some other specially prepared questions?...For the one AP course we have, we had access to one "no year listed" and "2013" and "2014" and before that some others for previous dc, but I wasn't downloading them every year...It wasn't an exam that was recently changed. For the other AP course we have, it was recently changed so they gave out a "no year" one but now I can't see any - even though I kept renewing...I can't remember but it seems like they gave two - a no year and one from the previous year... 2. There is no other site that I know of 3. You could ask students who took the exam in Europe :-) (I'm thinking that there must be even other questions for the "Make up" exam which is given a week later, and then questions for Asia - there are AP students all over the world...Dd didn't take AP CS...or were you interested in others? and then is this ok to do?

I have a Mac now and from the Leiden U link, it says not for Mac...

Ok but I don't want to download Java on this laptop and so it might be awhile before I can do it on a different computer...But I'll get back to you...

I hope this works for us. You should x-post this on the Bilingual board...

We are overseas and they give a different test - I'm not sure how many different tests there are depending on the time zones... If you compare what they say is the 2014 test given to auditors (which is supposedly the test given in 2014 as it has the MC's) with the 2014 FRQ's that are posted for the public, you will see they are different. But it might be they are using the 2014 test that was given overseas or the test that is given as a makeup test, which is also different I believe. ETA 2 - this was a good way to get more practice of the recent FRQ's... ETA - my dd checked both Calc and Chem FRQ's and they were different that what she got as FRQ's this week. We're 6 hrs east of the East Coast.

For anyone interested - the FRQ's, etc given over here are different than the ones they've posted online. (I'm not sure how many different forms there are now. Before there used to just be the main form and Form B - now they don't label them. ) For those whose syllabus got accepted for the Audit of an AP course the FRQ's in the recent full exams you have access to are different than the FRQ's posted for the public on the CB website at least for the course I could check. The other foreign language didn't give access to any real exams (with a year)