If one wants to use Story of Science to the max w/ teacher's guide and student worksheet, 1. What subjects are covered ? Will science, applied math, history, and geography be covered ? 2. Is it possible to do it all in 1 year (i.e. 3 books), assuming no other science, history, and geography curricula are added? 3. What is the best age to use this, so one can understand and use everything in the book and guide ? 4. Any recommended add-on to make this book and guide a full curriculum ? Thanks

PLL includes: - usage (but doesn't give the grammar terms) and punctuation. - narration and re-write (writing narration). There's also re-write using dialogue instead of just a narrative re-write. - conversation exercises to get children to answer in complete sentences. - dictation and copywork - picture study. - poem -some original composition - letter I think you can replace FLL with this if you add the grammar term yourself. As for replacing WWE - may be no, because WWE includes lengthy passages, whereas PLL contains shorter ones.

We finally settle for: - SOTW or AHA!Science for independent (or almost independent) work. With SOTW, she will read, narrate, and write the narration (yes, she can write summary pretty well). - Spelling Workout to replace Apples and Pears. On good days, we'll use FIAR /ByFIAR/MPH Singapore science instead of SOTW and AHA! Science. She's happy with the change, knowing that she still uses FIAR/ByFIAR which she loves, but has the choice of doing independent work whenever the needs arise.

She has her own timetable in a sheet protector, where she can cross off the list of things she has learned at a particular day. It's a generic one, though. I'll ask her whether she wants to do SOTW as well. So she'll have options on different things she can do independently. I think she has the capability of writing her SOTW narration - this is what her brother's doing anyway.

Just bought AHA! science for her. She loves it. She picked light unit and watched 3 videos on her own while I was going through her brother's writing. Thanks for this suggestion.

We don't do them everyday, and when we do them, we only do select problems from the challenging problem sections. We usually do this after the child master the algorithm needed for solving the problems and do them every few days.

All right, I have this accelerated, independent, self-starter, no-nonsense 8 yo girl who I treat as a third grader. She loves workbooks (especially the colorful one like Horizons - she can do 4 lessons of Horizons in one sitting for pleasure) and do them independently (or w/ little explanation from me - she gets things quickly). Currently we use Horizons 4 w/ MM 4 for math, ILL (usage, writing) ,Kiss &Paragraph Editing (grammar), Apples and Pears spelling, and Reading Comp. workbook for LA. For science and social studies, we use FIAR/By FIAR, Singapore MPH, and nature read aloud (NOT at the same time - we pick whatever we want to do that week. No schedule at all). French is L'art de Lire and Arabic is from Madina Reader. On top of that, she has religious instruction. NOTE: curricula I listed above are for weekly work, not daily. Problem is, she complains when I'm not available for her (because of baby and her older brother who needs me more than she does) for subjects which are more teacher-intensive at 'that moment' because that would lengthen her school day. She wants to be more independent so that she doesn't have to wait. How do you deal w/ that ? Of my curricula above, I'm thinking of replacing Apples and Pears w/ something more independent because she doesn't have problems whatsoever w/ spelling, but I want to make sure she knows the rules (the reason I put her in A&P in the first place is because I want to use the same program for my ds and her). May be spelling work out or megawords (any input; she lovees workbook - used to love ETC a lot !!) ? She will get dictation from ILL. I don't see how to get science/social studies to be more independent though. But may be I should stock some independent work for her to do when I'm not available immediately or during bad days ?? If so, what book ? Thoughts ? PS: she loves interacting w/ me, but she sometimes drives me nuts w/ her question, "What's next ?" And then I would say, "ummm .... wait for me okay, I'm still teaching your brother."

Hahaha ... you're opening a can of worms here. There's no math program more controversial than TT in this board. Just search TT or Teaching TExtbooks and you'll find plenty of LOOOOONGGG threads enough to keep you busy all morning. The gist: CONS: TT is not rigorous and runs behind. PRO: - but TT turns my math-hating kid into a math lover. - but TT is the only program that my kid understands. - but my kid's standardized score is high w/ TT. - but my kid becomes good at math because of TT. CONS: - Your kid loves math and becomes good at math because TT is easy. - It's not conceptual. It's procedural, and easy to boot. Just be careful when your kid is thinking of going into STEM field. PRO: - I know somebody who's gone into STEM field after TT and s/he's doing fine. AD NAUSEUM ....

Thank you thank you .... I think it's going to be exciting to try to do a real science project this or next year. This year's science has been a mismatch between Singapore, watching Bill Nye, some BFSU, and just reading various books. Obviously we have to go out more and 'notice' things. We're one hour from a couple of beaches, so I'm so not looking forward of doing a project at the beach. Wetland is also one hour away. But we have plenty of parks w/trails which we visit almost weekly, so we just have to keep a closer eye on things. Off to read some more ....

Dawn and Ruth, How do your children get an idea ? Do they come up with their own ideas, or do you suggest ideas ? I'm sure if I ask my children, they would answer, I don't know (will try this today ...). Second, how do you find out about the regional and state science fair ? I've googled my city, but can only find the one for 7th grade up. There's another one for K-12, but it's part of Christian homeschool association, and we're not Christian.

It's v. heartening to see that genetic potential is still fulfilled w/ no milk ..:) I guess what happens in my circle is that often the mom and dad are shortie, but their kids who grow up in the US end up to be much taller (again, by Asian standard). Usually the moms are around 5'-5'1" and the dads are 5'4"-ish (or lower) -- and the sons grow up to be 5'7"-5'8". All of them are milk drinkers because back home, it's thought that drinking milk = drinking gold, but at the same time, drinking milk is a luxury. Once they migrate to the US, milk became the prominent feature of their diet. So, if they see somebody growing up in the US AND not drinking milk AND small, the assumption is that it's because of lack of milk. My hubby and I drank milk a lot as a child; we're pretty well-off. I ended up 1 inch taller than my mom (my dad is the 5'4" man), and my hubby ended up 1 inch taller than his dad (his mom is the 5' woman). His brothers are all taller than hubby. So, when FIL/MIL knows that ds is allergic to milk and end up small for a 10 yo, then the short stature is attributed to lack of milk. What happens frequently in the developing country is that meat and milk are luxury,and less than affluent families can't afford those in a regular basis. Incidently, they're often shorter as well. I think though, the issue is much deeper than just meat and milk. Often these poorer families do not eat varied diet, and because of lack of money, they might not even have enough food in the first place. Hence, the genetic potential is not fulfilled. My theory, anyway. But it's hard to argue with the milk -- mainly because it's so ingrained culturally. Food is sensitive issue in developing country - if your children are skinny, it means you don't feed your child enough and hence, you might be poor (even in reality, you're not poor). My mom fed me w/ all of these traditional herbal concoction to elevate my appetite although when I was little I had a healthy appetite - and this was all because I was so skinny and light (although height-wise, I was normal). Now, if your children are chubby, it means you're doing a good job and you must be prosperous ...:) Food is often linked with wealth and is used as an indicator of good parenting. Sigh sigh sigh ....

Our pedi was certainly not alarmed by his short stature because although he's off the chart, he's growing at a normal rate which is pretty much constant. She thinks he's going to catch up given the bone age result. Btw, if I put him in Asian/Chinese chart, he comes out in 10-25%-ile (can't remember), but using US chart, he's off. Btw, what is the difference between GH secretion pattern and GH level test ? I mean, if the GH level is normal, then shouldn't the body secrete normal level of GH ? Also, how's your boy's growth pattern ? From what I read, if the growth is normal (but children is short) and the bone age is less than the chronological age, then it's more because of congenital growth delay. Certainly my pedi thought so. And I just read an article on GH deficiency in emedicine (I think) that the sign of GH deficiency is less growth (as in pattern), i.e. less than 2 inches/year. My boy grows around 2-2.25 inches/year. Bottom line, I'm glad it's not because of lack of milk ...:)

Yes .. yes .. Someone told me that there is this Asian guy from my race who's much taller than his dad (his dad is 5'3'', but he didn't grow up in the US. The son is around 5'8" and grew up in the US). The reason ? That guy drank milk by the gallons, and because he was a picky eater, his mom gave him rice, w/ soy sauce and fried egg day in day out. That's the reason ...:lol:

We've ruled out endocrine cause, but I can't remember what was actually ordered. I remember thyroid was one of them. May be GH as well (??) And actually his pedi was fine with him. It's me who bugged her into getting my son tested because he is small. It's possible though he's one child who's a slow and steady kind. His milestones (intellectual + physical maturity) are slow and steady. Btw, my FIL told me that all his boys still grow till 18 (??) so that could be the reason that he's small. I remember my hubby's younger brother shot up when he's 17 and now, at 33, he's around 180 cm which is v. tall for Asian standard.

My son is allergic to milk, so we don't give him cow milk. Tried goat milk, and that made him want to throw up. So, he never had any milk, cheese, and yogurt. He eats a good diet though and has a healthy appetite (not too much, not too little). However, he's small, even for Asian. I know that being Asian, he's not going to grow like his Caucasian and Afro-American counterpart. His pediatrician is fine with that because his curve shows steady progress. We had him tested for bone age, nutritional status, and hormone levels. Nothing came back abnormal - well, actually, his bone age is around 3 years less than his chronological age. Pedi was not concerned because that means, he has room to grow. So, if you have a child who is eating a good diet with healthy appetite (veggie, fruit, whole grain, and meat/fish --> meat and fish is not in a form of a steak, it mainly comes w/ stir fry and soup, except once in a while), but not drinking milk -- is your child's growth stunted because of milk ? I'm getting nervous about this because sometimes people just pointed out that my son is small because he doesn't drink milk. Is milk really 'that' important ? My daughter who isn't much of a milk drinker (but will eat cheese occasionally) is average for Asian standard. NOTE: I am Asian (5' 1'', weigh 110 lbs) and is average for my race and age. I eat a lot, and is slim, even for Asian standard for my age (late 30s). Hubby is pretty tall for asian standard.

Experience w/ dc: - w/ son: --> when he's 2nd grade, he could only handle the usage, dictation/copywork, and oral retelling part. When I re-used it at the second half of third grade and first half of fourth grade, he managed to do the writing part as well, so it went really great. - w/ daughter: --> she's quite an early bloomer, and used this when she turned 7 which is for her was 2nd grade (last half of 2nd grade). She did everything in a year and it was great. Both of them are doing ILL part 1 and love it.

What is the complaint ? Too easy, too repetitive, not colorful, not fun, or what ? Does she need a curriculum where she can be accelerated easily ? Then, get a mastery-based curriculum. Need challenging problems ? Then pair CLE w/ challenging workbooks from, e.g. Singapore math (Singapore Word Problem and Intensive Practice come to mind). Does she need a colorful book, full of riddles ? Horizons may fit the bill (it's fun !)

The bold should be the definition of Western Classical Education. Other cultures have their own 'classical education' too. And I bet they also teach truth, virtue, and beauty from their perspectives... :001_smile: I agree w/ Ester Maria that the definition of Western Classical Education lays in content, rather than truth, virtue, and beauty. This is what makes Western classical education different from Islamic, CHinese, Japanese, and whatever else classical education out there in this world. TO equate Western Classical Education w/ education which teaches truth, virtue, and beauty, to me is like saying that you can only teach those via Western Classical Education, which is not true.

Thanks for your answer. If you don't mind, what do you mean by language explosion ? Is it the ability to understand the ins and out of language ? The way they string their words to make a sentence ? The vocab ? I'm thinking along the line whether classical Arabic will have that effect. It's an inflected language - so word order doesn't matter. Rhetoric can be achieved by selecting words/vocab, tenses, word order, and the type of words (part of speech). Is Latin like that ?

I agree with what you said. What makes me a bit queasy when reading the 'other thread' is that I have an impression that classical education, and classical education only, is synonymous with good education, whereas in my thought is that, any solid liberal art education is good education, although not necessarily classical (i.e. including the teaching of Greek and Latin). So in essence, classical education is one way a person can obtain a good education, and its function is more of transmission of Western cultural heritage. For my kids though, I'm content w/ giving them a WTM education (sans Latin and Greek) which I think is solid in its own right - w/ our cultural bent. So, no 'classical education' (as defined by EM) here. Liberal arts education aka WTM, yes. Classical, no. I have to smile and nod at this though ... "What happened is that, over time, other types of schools developed, the explosion of science happened, etc., and certain knowledges, which used to be considered a default component of one's education (remember: ONE component of it, not THE education) started to be viewed as anachronistic, something not really belonging to the modern age and world, etc. First Greek, then Latin too, then in a more broad sense, the whole of the classical antiquity (and Bible, but that was politically incorrect to say in a newly secular society, that got totally pushed aside) as a cultural basis for much of the Western culture. So, what used to be "only" a lycee or a gymnasium, if it retained that, got renamed as "classical". Nothing ever becomes "classical" or "orthodoxy" until new ways of doing things appear and mainstreamize. So we have a paradoxical definition that is partially historical, partially literal (= an education in classics). " Because I once heard an Islamic speaker talking about Islamic school vs other school the same way you talk about classical vs other school. He said that long time ago, at the height of Islamic civilization, there's no such a thing as Islamic school (Islamic madrasah) because virtually every school in the empire is Islamic - students learned Arabic grammar (the "latin" of Islamic civilization), memorized Quran, and only after that learned other Islamic sciences, astronomy, logic, math, etc (even Greek and Latin). Only in modern age (in muslim countries), a school w/ those subjects got labeled 'madrasah'.

First, I'd like to thank you for advising us younger moms so that we can all learn from your trial and errors. I have two questions though. You posted before that AOPS is not for everyone. However, you equally said that your 10th grade ds understands math better and deeper than the first one. Suppose we want our dcs to get to 'that level of math', esp. the STEM-inclined kiddos - does it mean that AOPS is necessary ? Do you think your ds#1 is handicapped in any way for not doing AOPS ? Do ou think he would be more creative had he done AOPS ? Do you think that he's even suited for AOPS ? The reason I ask this is that I have a rather quirky son who's solid in math, loves science, and wants to be an engineer (dad is comp. scientist/researcher, great grandad, grandad and uncles/hubby siblings are all engineers - so it's in the family). I don't see him as a candidate for AOPS though, from the way people describe this program, and he's no way like your 10th grader. But again, my son is only 10, so who knows ?? Second question. What convince you that LAtin is necessary ? Can't it be replaced by other equally difficult languages ? Granted, Latin is the precursor of English, so there's vocabulary advantage there which comes w/ studying Latin. But how about other advantages ? I'm thinking about languages such as Greek, Hebrew and Arabic (my interest is classical Arabic). Thanks.

I used Reading Made Easy by Valerie Bendt (http://www.valeriebendt.com) with my 1st and second dc. My third one is not reading yet, but I'm planning to use this book for her as well. A bit about RME: RME is a bit similar to 100 EZ Lesson in that it employs marking system to make reading easy. However, the marking is simpler - short vowel is black, long vowel is gray and silent letters are dotted. I find the marking is very helpful to enable the child to read more easily and confidently at the early stage. The scope and seq is rather different from regular reading program, going from short 'a' to long 'a' within a few lesson, without even going to other short vowel first (NOTE: this is easy to do because of the marking system). This, in combination with the early introduction of frequently used sight words like the, you, etc, enables the child to read interesting sentences and short stories in the book within a few lessons. No tongue twister stories here (cat sat on a mat). Hence, you practically do not need any other reader like bob books etc to accompany this program. It also includes several games and kinesthetic activities to reinforce the reading. Plus, in each lesson, there are practices to read sentences without the marking to make the transition to non-marked reading easier. In short, this book combines reading lesson with the love of reading. The later point, is often forgotten in many primers which mainly focus on decoding skills. I've used such primer (PP) in the past with my son, but we're both bored to tears. Really, to get your child to be motivated to read, they need to have interesting stories to read . You know, the one with meaningful sentences, not the tongue-twister sentences (KWIM ?). Reading MAde Easy supplies these stories(along with pictures) in abundance within a few lesson. When you finish with this, you can make transition to non marked reading by getting easy readers. In our home, we used Mc Guffey primer (first 30 lessons), then switched completely to a combination of Elson and Treadwell primers. Both Elson and Treadwell primers are available free from google books and baldwin project respectively. I highly recommend these two primers. The language is easy enough, but the stories are not dumbed down. They are interesting to read. We enjoy these a lot in our home. To help reading logner words, you can use Webster Speller.

Make a S/O thread then ....:001_smile:

Do you read, for instance, a chapter, and then do the extra reading/discussion/activities whatever rabbit trails related to that chapter ? Or you try to limit the rabbit trails so that they don't distract you from the 'main book' ? How do you balance the two ? Do you think it's appropriate to start doing fairy tales w/ a 10 yo boy and 8 yo girl ? They already know quite a lot because I made them read vintage readers, and those readers are full of folk stories and fairy tales. Thanks.

You can keep Horizons as your spine (if you like it enough) and add some supplements, like S-pore Intensive Practice or Challenging Word Problems. In another note, if your son does not need and does not like repetition, you can change your spine into a mastery-based math, such as S-pore or Math Mammoth. It's easier to tweak and hence, accelerate mastery-based math, IMHO.