I've often thought about this issue over the years we homeschooled. When our boys were about 16-18 they really had a problem finding people to relate to. They had always been able to find someone to "play" with, but as they got older they longed for friends with whom they could have intelligent discussion! Our oldest son went to a great liberal arts college and was blessed to find endless stimulating discussions and many life-long friends while there. But the liberal arts college is not for other two, so I thought --HOW can one find this sort of thing without having to go to an expensive liberal arts college. It doesn't seem to happen in youth groups at churches either. :( I have an idea, but I never got a chance to develop it. It's to start a Great Books discussion club for that age. Doing it in such a creative way that it won't look too 'nerdy.' (Of course, it will inevitably nerdy, since its for nerds. ;P but you know what I mean.) We started this kind of thing for adults (homeschooling parents) and it was tremendously successful at helping us find like-minded friends. ... the idea is that its a way of flushing out the serious minded teens from the homeschool groups around town. If they have nothing to gain but good, deep discussion about Dante or Plato, it's not going to attract the average teenager! Perhaps an older, mature kid (perhaps 17-18)could start it, if provided some guidelines and ideas, they might just might be able to get a good thing going. This might be hard to do in a small town, but in a city area there are enough people around to provide that tiny percentage of people interested in this sort of thing. I've often thought that one of the problems with classical home schooling is that we produce young people whose *minds* are 'all dressed up with no place to go!'

For long and something you can sink your teeth into.... Stephen Lawhead's Pendragon series, starting with Taliesin. or his Paradise Wars trilogy.

This is a very difficult stage for both, mom and "student." Having seen this from both ends, mine when we homeschooled, and now from the online teacher's--I would second what Aime says. Also, just take it easy, breathe deep, count your blessings, etc. etc. And know that she learns from your example, and she can adjust to more responsibility, if you don't give her too much responsibility all at once. I strongly believe in paring down the number of courses a students takes at any one time if and when they seem totally overwhelmed. Even if that means the transcript looks non-standard. There are worse things than a non-standard transcript or one that's not perfect. All three of our kids had very strange looking transcripts, yet they are doing wonderfully. If you take the time to just be with her, modeling self-control and discipline to the best of your ability. It will go a long way to guide her gently and make sure that she knows how much you care, regardless of how well she "performs" at things. When my very bright oldest son got caught up in certain "social things" at this age and did irreparable damage to his transcript I was tempted to despair. But my main concern was his character and our relationship. I made it clear to him that we didn't care so much about the outward appearances, his record, or his grades, etc. But that we just wanted to be sure that he was always honest and that our communication was good. We cared about *him* and not how he was "turning out." I was so shocked when he actually confided in me one day that he suddenly realized we loved him unconditionally, and that he didn't have to feel this huge pressure to live up to an image. I was shocked! How could he have doubted our intense love for him? Ever?? But they do. We don't realize how confused and hurt a rebellious teenager can be. I am not assuming all of this about your daughter, but just thought I'd take this opp. to encourage any of you that are struggling through this c. 14-15yo stage. Oh, it is hard sometimes!!! How well I remember those days--don't push them away by giving them the impression that you will be forever uptight and upset with them if they don't live up to your high standards. They still need your love and acceptance more than anything, even as they are distancing themselves from you. Even as they make huge mistakes. They just need you to stand aside and let them have some freedom to make their way and yes perhaps, fall down a lot. But be there to help them pick up the pieces. Its so difficult isn't it? It sometimes seemed to me like the endurance of Job wasn't enough. It seems like just a few months ago we were in the midst of pulling our hair out. We must keep saying: Dum spiro, spero! The fruit of their maturity later is so sweet! I'm experiencing that now.

Just to encourage you... I've been teaching this level with writing integrated in the history and literature. Your main challenge will probably be in helping them understand the writing process, and figuring out an appropriate thesis. They think that they should come up with a thesis first, and then do a little research. :) They will probably need lots of guidance on the thesis!! Give them many examples! Show them how to ask questions of their subject area so that they can come up with their particular focus- their angle- on the subject. There are plenty of great resources for you here:The Purdue Owl. Then when grading... what I do to keep all of that grading from being too overwhelming is tell them which aspect I am going to specially focus the grade on (could be the intros and conclusions, or the content, organization, or the MLA style)--but only take off points in one or two of those areas). If you have lots of writing exercises, you want to come up with a system that will make the grading much more manageable. Because you do want to correct it, and give them feedback...obviously! There is nothing more discouraging for a student than to work hard on a paper and feel that the teacher didn't even read it.

THis looks great! But if you want it to count as two credits.... I would say add just two factors and then you could call it both a History and a Literature credit. Looks like an Honors Lit class, but you need to develop an understanding of the timeline (perhaps make one?) and have her write one paper/ semester on the historical aspect of the era. I am now a 9th grade history and literature teacher in a classical school, but used to do the same thing you're doing with my boys a few years back (miss it!!) so just thought I'd throw in my 2c. :tongue_smilie:

I was planning to major in science in college, and whenever I took lit classes and they did endless analysis of the work, I felt like screaming. And now I am a lit and Latin teacher. :tongue_smilie: Go figure. We do tend to over-analyze literature, rather than simply experiencing it and appreciating it. But because I know that the students need to develop their ability to understand what the writer is attempting to do, I still teach them to analyze some parts. But I also just ask them to write down their thoughts about the work.... just some of their more "impressionistic" responses. When I ask students to analyze a story I word it something like this: "Find evidence in the pages that will help you understand what the character might be thinking or feeling. And find evidence of what question the author might be trying to answer through writing this work. In other words what is its "theme?" She is right, we cannot know in a scientific way what the author was thinking or intending, but we can learn to read discerningly and carefully so that we can put 2 and 2 together to come up with a better understanding of what the words on the page communicate to us. One of my favorite literature guides is Barron's The Principles of Literature by Myers-Shaffer.

Note how similar each of your first lines are; you need more variety in your starts. Writing is more pleasing when there is a variety of sentence styles. It's fine to begin some of your paragraphs with the phrase, "Open Source," but you have it starting almost all of them. For example, you could redo the last paragraph something like this: A few years ago Linux was the only free and open software around. Now there is even a free open source alternative for smart phones, the Android Smartphone operating system. (And one of the best alternatives to the widely used and very expensive Office suites is Open Office!) People worldwide are switching to free alternative programs and people worldwide contribute to make (making)these alternatives better and better. I added my own thought above (in italics) :tongue_smilie:--because I agree with you--Open Office is just great....I've used it for many years. You have made many great points and have a very informative essay here! Just keep in mind that people will enjoy your writing more if you vary your sentence styles. :)

If I were picking a classic to read after Latin 3 it would be Confessions of St. Augustine. He was one of the last great authors to write in beautiful classical Latin, yet the work is almost modern in its sensibilities. Most of its subject matter is accessible for a young person. Of course, Vergil is the ultimate for an advanced Latin student. Its just so exciting to read, since here we get the story of the Trojan horse, etc. If you do need to outsource this course I would highly recommend Dr. Grote, who teaches it online at Regina Coeli.

When studying Latin vocab, it is essential to learn the words in their category. I always recommend that my students group their vocabulary words in lists (3rd conjugation verbs, 2nd Declension nouns Masc, 3rd Declension M/F, 3rd Dec. Neuter, etc). The reason for this is that the biggest problem for students is remembering whether a word is neuter, or whether a verb is a 'short e' verb or a 'long e' verb. Drilling the words together in their category makes it easier for your mind to categorize them. You will associate the word flumen, plural: flumina, with all of the other Neuter 3rd dec. nouns and so be able to quickly recognize that the -a ending is Nom/Acc plural and not nominative sing. as it is for Feminine 1st Dec. nouns. So if you like this idea, take sheets of notebook paper and title one "1st Conjugation Verbs" another "2nd Conjugation Verbs," etc. Then for the nouns: 1st Declension Nouns, etc. For 3rd declension nouns you would make a separate page for each gender, since they can be either Masc, Feminine, or neuter. If you like to use flash cards I really think that making them yourself is the way to go, because the act of making the card is one more layer of studying the word. I would have the student drill the words and make cards just for the vocab that they need to drill. Some words are easy to memorize, and then your stack won't get so unmanageable. Cards are helpful, but the amount of vocab that a Wheelock's student needs to master make the stacks of cards unwieldy. Fwiw!

PS: I meant to continue, about the outline maps. Allow the student to color in certain regions and fill out major cities, etc. This is a great and simple way to learn geography. If they are at all artistic they can have lots of fun with this!

Hi again! If you'd like some ideas for developing timelines I've written a handout on this issue; it's based on our years of experience building wall timelines. There is a link to it near the bottom of this page. And for geography you can find all sorts of great historical maps -- both outline maps and filled in ones. Just do a google search for "outline maps of Europe," for example. :)

Here's an example of a rubric that I use for papers. It may be a little bit too much for you. But here is the way I work it. THere are several areas and each is given a percentage. If the paper is fine for that area they get a check by the first line, the ones in red below. Otherwise I specify the number of points off beside the element that is a problem. 9th Gr History Class Topic: A specific issue of 14th Century Europe. Due: May 4, 2011 One aspect to focus on: This time especially work on crafting an interesting introduction and conclusion! Specific guidelines for this paper were as follows: Length: 4-6 Pages 3-5 sources (two must be in print, i.e. books) MLA Format, including works cited page CONTENT (50%) ____Thesis / This paper has a clear and compelling thesis which is appropriately focused. ______ Thesis is stated and appropriate, but lacks clarity or focus. ______ The thesis is stated, but is either not clear or not relevant. /or, It's inappropriate and does not describe the topic. ______ Unclear or no thesis statement. No unifying idea to the paper. Ideas & their relevance to assigned subject / The supporting ideas are clear and well-developed. ______ The writer has the beginning of an idea, but does not cover it in as much depth or detail as needed. The paper falls short of developing the idea thoroughly and providing examples. ______ Ideas in the paper are unconvincing, since information is not supported by sources. ______ Very little research seems to have been done; there are randomly organized paragraphs and misplaced quotes. There is a lack of focus on the thesis. STRUCTURE & GRAMMAR (30%) Structure; Flow; Organization and Development ____The ideas expressed throughout the paper are clear and well-developed. The paragraphs effectively relate to and support the thesis. They flow well and hold the reader's attention. ______ Ideas are clear, and the paper is organized, but the main points of the paper are not well-developed. ______ The paper lacks organization or focus in some areas. ______ Information is disorganized and has little to do with the main topic. ______ Examples are either lacking or ineffective (do not relate to main idea of the paper/ paragraph) Correct Grammar & Syntax _____There are very no grammar, spelling or syntax errors. ______ Incorrect sentence formation; ______ Improper punctuation; ______ Spelling errors FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS & Format(20%) _____Correctly Followed Directions ______ Incorrect length ______ Font too big or unconventional / too much spacing. ______ Incorrect choice of subject ______ Other: ____ MLA Format is correctly followed and the paper is neatly done. The following parts were improperly done: _______ heading on first page _______ indenting & spacing _______ format of “Works Cited” page _______ formatting of in-text references

Oh yes, those lectures from the Teaching Company are wonderful. One of the best activities to help the student process everything is to have them develop their own timeline, showing the break down of the 3 parts of the medieval era: Early, High and Late. And within each of these place only a few more significant dates on the line. Perhaps a few pages of copy paper taped end to end which can be folded up into a notebook. Let the student decide on some of the dates and explain why they are turning points or why they should be memorized. They can be as creative as the student wants. I've listed below some wonderful books that give an overview of the medieval period, and some that delve into certain episodes or periods during the MA. These are the ones that have proved the most helpful for me as a 9th grade history teacher -- History books that bring to life certain important episodes and periods: The Forge of Christendom by Tom Holland 1066 by David Howarth 1215: the year of magna carta by Danny Danziger The Hundred Years War by Desmond Seward The most informative and in-depth study of the whole age: The Civilization of the Middle Ages by Norman Cantor The Middle Ages by Morris Bishop (easy to read and very interesting) - I have the students read this one.

Hello Jean, I would definitely recommend that you let him continue the Latin and take Latin I and II in highschool. If he has done all this work then he needs to begin to "get" the syntax so that he can benefit from this wonderful subject! Of course, I'm a Latin teacher (over 15 years) so I'm prejudiced. Sounds like understanding how to form Latin sentences is the next step he needs. (I do this in my classes by helping the student learn how to gradually build thoughts in Latin, from simple to more complex.) My workbook is Studium Latinae which can be found at lulu.com ... If you need an online Latin I course I have a couple of levels going this summer. Also, there are some great free resources linked at my website. Pax,

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky or.... Oh! ....just one????

The best little summary on Greek history, if you want to go more in-depth with it than reading the an "Ancient History" like the one by Bauer, is The Greeks by Kitto. Here is his first sentence: "The reader is asked, for the moment, to accept this as a reasonable statement of fact, that in a part of the world that had for centuries been civilized, and quite highly civilized, there gadually emerged a people not very numerous, not very powerful, not very well organized, who had a totally new conception of what human life was for, and showed for the first time what the human mind was for." And then, for a fairly new book on the subject, which is much more entertaining but has some interesting insights into this era: Persian Fire by Tom Holland. He is a great writer! I also love his book on an important episode in the Middle Ages: The Forge of Christendom. But perhaps you meant, which books from the Greek era to read? Well, the Landmark versions of the Greek historians, of course! Herodotus, Thucydides and the other guy (can't spell his name without looking) are wooonnnnderful, especially when read in the Landmark versions. Of course, no Greek study would be complete without reading Plato. Depending on how old your son is I would recommend at least, The Last Days of Socrates, and then parts of The Republic.

After all those years of making timelines, I finally decided the most effective system was to have an oversimplified wall timeline (so that it wouldn't get too cluttered to be a visual aid), and supplement them with notebook timelines on the various eras. So the wall timeline could display their illustrations, yet give us a view of the Eras and get an overall perspective, but the notebook, or fold out, supplements could give us the chance to focus on details. This also gives you a great way to unify History studies with various age levels, and unify them through the years. The younger ones can just make illustrations that can be put on the wall TL and learn a few of the dates, while the older kids can develop a more in-dept TL for the era. Another child can create a TL focusing on their area of interest; for example, one of my sons was fascinated with weaponry, so creating one showing the development of those through Modern Times was exciting to him. Some kids might be fascinated by the development of law through the Middle Ages, or the styles of clothing, or art, etc. Then all the fold out timelines can be displayed temporarily under that part of the Wall timeline. (Our timeline was to scale and ran around the room, near the top of the Dining Room wall like a wallpaper border.)

Yes! This was always a challenge. I finally decided that I would simplify the wall timeline and use fold out timelines in notebooks for more of the details. The way One thing I did for the Medieval centuries is color-coded our events, making European events turquoise, and making English events red (Church or Biblical events were always purple). If the boys drew a picture about an Italian event it would have a turquoise border. Then if it was an event that happened in England it would have a red border, such as the Magna Charta. But--2 inches per 100!? Honey, how in the world can you fit anything on there? LOL I usually tried to make the scale 100 years / 11 in (i.e. one page length), although sometimes I had to scale it down to 200 yrs/ 11 in., since that wraps all the way around the top of a large room. Because we started with the Invention of Writing and had the whole sweep of time up at once, even when we're just studying the Romans. Lately when I've asked our sons what they feel was the most valuable thing we did in homeschooling, they say the read alouds and the history timeline. They don't remember all of the specific dates, but they find it very easy to remember the general time period of each civilization, etc.

Yes! This was always a challenge. I finally decided that I would simplify the wall timeline and use fold out timelines in notebooks for more of the details. The way One thing I did for the Medieval centuries is color-coded our events, making European events turquoise, and making English events red (Church or Biblical events were always purple). If the boys drew a picture about an Italian event it would have a turquoise border. Then if it was an event that happened in England it would have a red border, such as the Magna Charta. But--2 inches per 100!? How can you fit anything on there? LOL I usually tried to make the scale 100 years / 11 in (i.e. one page length), although sometimes I had to scale it down to 200 yrs/ 11 in., since that wraps all the way around the top of a large room. Because we started with the Invention of Writing and had the whole sweep of time up at once, even when we're just studying the Romans. Lately when I've asked our sons what they feel was the most valuable thing we did in homeschooling, they say the read alouds and the history timeline. They don't remember all of the specific dates, but they find it very easy to remember the general time period of each civilization, etc.

Oh, this is fun... what about? "The Doctor Makes Mountain Calls" I'm assuming that many of those helicopter trips were into the mts? :)

I have! It is definitely a wonderful way to unify your history studies. There is a link on my website Summer Latin to an article I wrote for a workshop on How to Make Your Own Timelines. It is not very glitzy or glamourous, but there are lots of pointers in there about what I learned over many years of using timelines in homeschooling. Its the link just below the one for free Latin resources online. I would change a couple of the dates, or mainly, add a couple now that I've been studying Medieval Times longer. I would add the Battle of Agincourt, and the Walk to Canossa! Just because they are such interesting stories to help the kids understand more important turning points. The Walk could be linked to the issues surrounding the Investiture Conflict, and the Battle of Agincourt or The Last Duel, to the waning of the Code of Chivalry. On another thread I mentioned some must reads for this era. There is a fabulous little book about the last duel by Eric Jager. But of course, it is only appropriate for adults or older students, since there is a brief description of the crime that led to the duel. I like to pick a colorful event that they can link to a date and that will yet be able to lead to a discussion of the important trends of that time.

Just a little encouragement for those of you with reluctant students. When my sons were in homeschool they were very reluctant to study to varying degrees, but I will just use my middle son as an example. He was dyslexic, couldn't read until 3rd grade and didn't seem to be the least bit interested in being a reader. I would try all sorts of things to get him to read more, because I thought that without lots of practice he wouldn't become a good reader! But it was hard. We did read aloud lots, and he loved this as long as he could have legos in his hand. Turned out that he actually did retain loads of what I thought he wasn't listening to. Much to my surprise he would remember the story a lot better than I did. Then when he was in middle school we gave him The Lord of the Rings, and he disappeared into his bedroom and came out a week later having read all 3 books. He read them a few times over the years, and he read the minimum of the things I would assign. Classics like The Iliad. At least he would read parts, but he was so busy! I just thought he wasn't going to be a "reader." But after he graduated he suddenly had a desire to read all the great books he possibly could. He took a whole box of them to Afghanistan when he was in the Army. He fell in love with Jane Austen, Homer, Sir Conan Doyle, Dostoevsky , etc. etc. Now he is in college making straight As. Prefers to read instead of going to movies, etc. So, no, he doesn't read as much or as deeply as a couple of us in the family do, but he still reads well and often and enjoys it--even though I never could get him to read a lot when he was young. I think the best thing that improved his reading ability was great conversation, listening to good literature, and being required to be thoughtful about things and take time to think things through. Fwiw!

Ooops, I forgot the link for the textbook: A Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin by John Collins And here is the site for the cooperative, free Latin Study groups online. It is a wonderful resource for the independent student. And there are actually groups there that work through Collins' textbook! There are beginner Latin classes up to advanced Latin translation groups. Briefly, you do the study on your own but you can get just about any question possible answered because there are many experts on there. And you are held accountable, in a way, by the fact that you have to post your answers by a certain time and everyone in the group sees your work. It has been a few years since I have done any studies there, but if it is still the same, the best feature is the fact that there are so many experts who will answer your questions and usually within just a few minutes. Latin Study Groups The groups are very unique; go to the website to read about how they work.

It is not necessary to study medieval latin in order to use one's Latin in medieval studies. THe primary difference between classical and medieval Latin (besides pronunciation) is that late Latin's grammar is simpler. There were a few shifts in the meanings of certain words. E.g. orare - to beseech (an audience)/speak became to pray (beseeching the Lord). So if your son studies any Latin program and masters it well then his skill will be easily applied in Medieval Latin. There will just be a few things to learn about it that won't take long. Here is the best Medieval Latin text I've heard of, so getting a copy of this for him to read through along with whatever program he uses would be helpful. There are a couple of Medieval Latin courses, but the majority of great resources are for classical Latin. It's probably where to start. I've been teaching Latin (most of the time using Wheelock's) for over 12 years now. It is easier to read the Latin in the Vulgate or St. Augustine than to read Cicero, and I'm sure there are some vocabulary words to study for the medieval Latin that weren't there in the classical days. So I would recommend picking a program based on its appeal to your learning style. The best program will be a combination of the inductive and deductive, rather than erring to one extreme or the other. I like adding stories and conversation to Wheelock's rather than doing a completely inductive program such as Rosetta, Artes latinae, or Lingua Latina, because those courses leave a mature mind wondering about the underlying structure of the language. If you are taking a course with those books in which the teacher can take up the slack for you in that way, then ok. But when someone is studying on their own in homeschooling they need a reference such as Wheelock's or any other traditional textbook, in addition to some sort of audio visual resource to hear the language. I always chuckle when people say which one do I use? Artes Latinae or Wheelock? The best answer is both. Btw Rosetta is way over-priced! There are other options. For instance, a student could go to the website of the English guy who has posted lots of audio Latin on his site read from an antique textbook. You can add this for free to your textbook approach. Let me find the url....Here it is Latin for Beginners

Oh yes! Brothers Karamazov is a must read. I am finally getting around to reading it this summer. I read Anna Karenina last year, too. In college I read lots of contemporary books and 20th century lit, so over the past 15 years I have been doing nothing but reading the ancient classics. The 19th century was completely neglected. I am only 2/3 of the way through it, but I can now see why many call the Brothers Karamazov one of the greatest novels of all time. It is a psychological thriller and murder mystery, interspersed with discussions of the big issues of faith in God, etc. For example, the issue of "how can man be good without God" is discussed by the brothers. I am reading that one along with rereading The Iliad....and hoping to squeeze David Copperfield in there somewhere. :)