Howard Pyle is my favorite of those above--oh, the wonderful drawings! But what about reading one or two of the 12th century Arthurian Romances by Chretien de Troyes. He wasn't the first to tell of King Arthur, of course, but he is considered my many the "Father of the Arthurian Romance" because he wove the stories into the genre that became so popular. And he wrote the first story of the Grail quest, which is very different than the popular versions. It mysteriously ends in mid-sentence and leaves one hanging. They think he died before being able to finish it. If you have mature students they will be fascinated by Chretien. The stories are very entertaining; the first one, Erec & Enide is a great antidote for the courtly love 'syndrome' since it extols Christian marriage and is quite a tale! And for a bit of fascinating medieval history read The Last Duel by Eric Jager. It is a true story of the last "judicial" duel ordered by the French. It happened at the tale end of the Middle Ages, but is such a classic story! If you want to read something short, entertaining, and yet full of authentic detail, its the one. I have lots of great books on medieval history. But I will just mention two recent histories that are superb: The Forge of Christendom by Tom Holland It tells a fascinating story about the Walk to Cannossa & the Investiture conflict between the Pope and German King Henry iv. Agincourtby Juliet Barker You will like this one if you want to know more about what make Henry V so great and more details about the history of the Battle of Agincourt. Bonum studium!

Too easy-going?! Looks great to me. Hi Jean in Wisconsin! :) Beth

Has anyone ever used or heard of this one? Avenues of the Mind I don't know much about the books, but I like the author. Have just recently gotten to know her because I'm teaching her son in an online class. And based on the caliber of student he is, she did a great job there! <g>

America's Last Best Hope: Volume I and II by William Bennett (I know, his character is lacking--errare est humanum!) These books are a very engaging U S History curriculum. There are even teacher's guides, tests, etc. to go with them. I think that they might be just what the doctor ordered: perfect for a more mature student who needs a relatively easy read. The narrative is a lot like Hakim but without all the pictures and in just 2 thick volumes, rather than 10. Information about the curriculum and samples can be seen here.

Here is what I would do: Have him read about Ancient Greece at Wikipedia. (Ancient history seems just a little too broad, but that would work too.) Then do Ancient Rome One of the best things about wiki articles is the section of external links at the bottom of each article. I especially like the one on Greece at the British Museum.--nice!

Yes, exactly! We must allow for "debate" along with discussion. Good healthy debate stimulates ideas and helps us grow in our thinking. When we fear that our ideas our going to be the slightest bit controversial and don't dare to express them, our conversations just become dull. It reminds me of that scene in Annie Hall where Alvy Singer asks the beautiful couple on the street: "Hey, you look like a very happy couple, um, are you? ..(they say yes).. So, so, how do you account for it?" Female: "Uh, I'm very shallow and empty and I have no ideas and nothing interesting to say." Male: "I'm exactly the same way." :tongue_smilie:

Hi Janice! No problem. I didn't take offense. and Colleen, Thanks for the help. I needed that. ;) It has been a while since I've discussed things on a board, and so I forgot that I need to be much more careful in the way I word things. But as to all these other issues being raised here... don't we need to allow each other to critique certain educational methods, books and curriculum without taking it personally!? How else are we going to learn and improve. Remember if someone criticizes a program that you are participating in, it isn't an attack upon you, its a criticism of the program.

I actually think this is a great idea! Because what many new home schoolers are doing these days, at least around me, is definitely not home schooling. And I will dare to say that I believe they are missing out on a lot of very valuable learning by not staying home and reading a little more. \:) But this is not to say that there is one right way to do it, not at all. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with hiring some tutors, going on outings, etc, etc. I have just noticed an unhealthy tendency for the moms to never have time to read a book with their kids, and this definitely doesn't facilitate a classical education. And that's what I thought this forum was all about. "Maybe some of those "runaround schoolers" feel sad for kids stuck at home all day. ;)" So true!! I agree that there are some on either side of the extreme.

Thanks Colleen, I am a newbie--in a way. I used to post here a long time ago, and then I got really busy with teaching. So this summer is the first time in a long time that I've had lots of free time to get on the boards; and so I'm here because I'm been missing homeschooling and just wanted to see what the latest discussions are about these days. Here is what I meant when I said, "I feel sad for the "runaround schoolers." As I so often do, I spoke with insensitivity! :) Sorry! I don't have any problem at all with outsourcing some classes, its just that those who never take the time to study some of the subjects with their kids and read together, etc. are simply missing out on the part of the experience that was sooo valuable and exciting for our family. I guess it sounds condescending and I am really sorry for that. But so many of the runaround schoolers I have encountered are very, very frustrated. So I worry about them. But then again, many of the stay at home all day every day homeschoolers probably have a few problems we should worry about too. LOL So I should just go back to minding my own business. :) Happy summer, y'all!

If you want the name of a few textbooks that are FULL of data for the basic subjects these come to mind: For Grammar: The Harbrace Handbook of English I have one from my college days that is small and light but covers everything you could ever want to know about grammar. Be sure to get one of the 1955-1968 vintage, because after that they took out the sentence diagramming. For Logic: Socratic Logic by Peter Kreeft. Again a very engaging, average sized text with everything you could ever want to know about logic, about all sorts of logic. For History: A paperback Western Civilization (Brief edition) by Spielvogel ... The "Brief" version is just slightly edited down so it's not so big, but has all the important information. For Latin: Wheelock's Latin, everything you could ever want to know about Latin, plus a lifetime supply of translation practice. Take the Key with you on your computer. For Literature to have in tangible form: Bible, Fagles translations of Homer & Virgil, The Divine Comedy. Hopefully you can load up a Kindle, of course. And for everything else, how about Barron's The Easy Way? They are great for subjects like arithmetic, algebra, biology, etc; they are comprehensive, lightweight, and provide plenty of exercises.

Yes! These are a wonderful resource!! I had studied French a lot in college (40+ yrs ago) and still have the ability to read French a little, but I had never gotten a chance to practice conversation. And so it was useless to me as a spoken language. The most valuable aspect of this course was the way it began to truly help me comprehend the language auditorily, and this is the biggest hill to get over with foreign language--especially with French!

This sounds like a great idea to me. Remember being 15?--this is an extremely difficult time for most boys (I've gone through this stage a lot, with my sons and lots of my students)--They really do get better if you give them some time. Unfortunately our 'standard educational timetable' doesn't allow for that, does it? But it should. Especially for some guys. But speaking of curriculum for writing. Has anyone tried out The Elegant Essay? It looks pretty good. Guess I should do a search on that.

Hi Book Nut, Oh yeah!? :) I teach at Greyfriars - ever heard of it? What and where do you teach now? Beth finally reading Brothers Karamozov, Wow!

:iagree: It saddens me so much to see the way "homeschoolers" do it these days! THey should be called "runaround schoolers"--out of their insecurity to teach they run around seeking others to teach everything. If only they knew how empowering it was to learn so that you can teach. MY advice to young homeschoolers with little wiggly 8yo students. Let them play a little more in the woods while you do your teacher training. It goes on in the "real" schools all the time. The value that this will be to your kids when they are 10yo s will be immeasurable. The catch is that you have to be committed to it long term this way. Too many moms are doing it on a year by year basis and so they are paranoid of getting 2 months behind!! Oh me, oh my! :tongue_smilie:

Mint Hill is where we live now! Isn't it a great name? Its a suburb of Charlotte.

Hi Kristine! I am guessing this is my friend from Co Springs? who lives in Roanoke now? I miss you! TIMELINES - The Best Thing we ever did in homeschooling, according to my sons! Another way to go about history is to simply unify various reading with a homemade TIMELINE to scale. This way you can skip around and read about different civilizations and study various time periods, yet you all can refer to the wall timeline over the years for tying(sp?) it all together. We made the timeline with connected computer paper and put it around the top of the room. Then the boys made pics to go up in certain spots, labeled key events etc. The trick is to not let it become "too busy," once this begins happening make a more detailed timeline to fold up into a notebook, and keep only KEY events up on the wall timeline.

Omnibus from Veritas is great for an integrated history and lit course, although it is just going to be Western Civ rather than world history. You can simply add some reading on Eastern History at appropriate times. The teacher's cd has answers to all the discussion questions, and other helps. The chapters in this text are tremendously engaging for young readers. Use the Spielvogel text when referenced at the end of each section, and have them read some of the classics. NOT ALL of them!! This is way too much work for one year.

:iagree: Yes, that's what we did. Just have her go ahead and graduate the normal time ON PAPER, but let the "gap year" that so many take between highschool and college be a year of doing whatever extra courses and activities she wants. It works beautifully and then you don't have to do any explaining. It's just a technicality. But if you feel that is dishonest, go ahead and put down five years in highschool. Good colleges will definitely understand.

There are soooo many moms feeling this way everywhere. Especially those with one year olds. I can still vividly remember the days when my boys were that age and my husband was out of work for over a year with a ruptured disc. He was prescribed addictive pain meds without a warning and -- the baby wouldn't ever sleep through the night, etc. etc. Hang on, though, just when you think the tunnel can't get any darker, suddenly you will be standing in the light! Funny. There is a line from TS Eliot's Four Quartets that comes to mind: ... I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope For hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting. Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought: So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing..." If you would like a good book to read, try The Sacred Romance by Brent Curtis & John Eldredge. I will pray for you. Perhaps you just need to be still and wait.

Oooh, that is a hard one! That's why the president/vice-president model of marriage works great for me! We just went into our relationship with the idea that in a situation like that he is the Pres and I am the Vice-Pres. We are equals in every way most of the time, but when push comes to shove he gets the last word. It has worked out, even though there are soooo many times when I have felt that mine was the superior reason. :)

And Oh! what a ride it has been. We have come to a point now where we are best friends and feel deep love and affection for one another. The passionate love of our younger days has changed into something much deeper and wonderful. This is after going through a very traumatic separation a few years ago, brought on by my husband's not dealing well with years of intense chronic pain. But God has miraculously brought us through that and healed our family. Along with healing my husband via a wonderful surgeon. Praying for all the marriages out there! It is worth it to persevere.

I love this program. It is well organized and fun to do, especially when you do it as a group the way we did. I got a group of moms together and we met for a few weeks in the evening. Even though many of us had studied these concepts before and understood the terminology we benefited tremendously from the way he presents and organizes the concepts. This is also a really neat way to help yourself pay for a program like this. You just charge each of the moms a fee that covers their book and then some. Then you all get the benefit of the program and yet don't have such a big upfront cost. :) Beth

:iagree: LNST are great workbooks simply to use to drill certain aspects of the Latin vocabulary and grammar, but they do not teach the subject. When you are homeschooling and learning the subject along with the student you need a textbook that instructs. Such as: Latin For Children Henle An even better option is Latin for Beginner's by D'ooge. This is an antique text that is available free online. And there is a key! Its layout is very much like Henle, but it combines the grammar reference sections within the chapters, and it is secular, not Catholic. If money is no object my favorite now is the new text from Bolchazy: Latin for the New Millenium - this is beautifully done--and has just the right balance between deductive instruction and reading & practice. Fwiw, :seeya: Beth Home schooled for 20 years, now: ~~ Latin Teacher Greyfriars Classical Academy "Ut conclave sine libris, ita corpus sine anima." ~Cicero

How much did you pay for them? You can get used copies of any of the 6th (and sometimes the 7th) via Amazon for only about $8-12 including shipping! Try out some of the online resources--they are great! And even the 6th Edition still has a site with all the free Study Helps. http://www.wadsworth.com/cgi-wadsworth/course_products_wp.pl?fid=M20b&product_isbn_issn=9780534646028&discipline_number=21&token= Just choose a chapter and then click on one of the blue links, like the "Interactive Maps" I love these books!!

I've used various editions of Spielvogel over the years (and even sold it when I had a bookshop for homeschoolers) so I have been forced to make quite a study of the differences between the editions! Here is some info to help you figure out which of the editions you want to use: The text of the classic _Western Civilization_ by Spielvogel is basically the same in the various editions. The "Brief" version is simply edited down: each section has a paragraph or a few sentences culled out. All the important facts and points are still in there. If you have young readers (c. middle school) you will probably want to choose the "brief." It comes in either the One Complete Volume or in two parts, Vol I and II. The regular (non-brief) editions come in 3 different ways: 1 complete volume of 29 chapters 2 parts: Volume I (chs 1-16) and II (chs 14-29) or divided into 3 parts: Volume A (chs 1-12), Vol. B, and Vol. C The chapters keep their number in all of the various volumes, so you could use a Volume A and a Volume II, but you might miss a couple of chapters in between. There is a little bit of overlap from I to II but not enough to make up the difference between A and II. For example Vol. II starts with Ch. 14, but Vol. A ends after CH 12. From an older to a newer edition the main problem you will have is the pg numbers not matching up exactly, and occasionally it is a significant difference. For instance, they did switch some sections around between the 4th edition and the 6th ed. In Chs 9 and 10 some sections were switched. The pages on the Reform of the Church and the Crusades were switched with "Cities and Trade," etc. The newer editions have some fabulous online helps, exercises and practice tests, etc. To get to the website where you can see these FREE student online resources... To come up with a list of the various years editions go to this site: http://www.cengagebrain.com/shop/index.html and enter the following search words: Western Civilization Spielvogel Once you select an edition (perhaps the 7th? The available free resources vary from one edition to another, and the 6th is the only edition for which I found none! The 5th, 7th and 8th do, but not the 6th? funny that) But the 5th has less resources than the 7th and 8th. So, anyway, follow the links to your specific text. When I speak of the numbered editions I'm referring to the regular not the brief; they are different. Then... when you are on the page for the specific edition you should be able to find a link to the "Student Resources"--once you are there, use the drop down menu, pick a specific chapter and then you will see the list of various quizzes, study helps, etc. They will be geared for that particular chapter. When you pick an edition then you can find your isbn, go to Amazon and buy a used copy for just a few dollars. Here is a specific link to the student resources for the 7th edition, just to make it easy: http://www.wadsworth.com/cgi-wadsworth/course_products_wp.pl?fid=M20b&product_isbn_issn=9780495502906&discipline_number=21&token= Let me know if you have any other questions. Hope this helps! :)