See my guess would probably be to default to the women's restroom if there was no family restroom available simply because they always have stalls (thus privacy.) I absolutely think that if you have kids that could sit outside to warn people, that would be great. I learned something by reading this thread, thank you everybody :) Not sure if this helps, but I know that the Dunkin' Donuts I've been to all have single restrooms (one giant room w/toilet) for men or women. So you could easily go in one of them and lock the door. I think Sonic Drive-Ins are the same. I found this threads: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?186980-caretaker-accompanying-in-public-restrooms Search for Family Restrooms http://www.findfamilyrestroom.com/index.html On a side note, I also found that Disney specifically has public restrooms for this situation called "companion assisted restrooms." http://allears.net/pl/restrooms.htm

I know it's off-topic but I want to say that I was cared for in my last pregnancy by a direct-entry midwife (legal in FL). They were the only ones who would care for me as I went most of the pregnancy without insurance. I called numerous OB offices and they all wanted thousands of dollars up-front to give me pre-natal care. Between my endocrinologist who helped me manage my diabetes and my direct entry midwife, I received excellent care. She charged me $100/visit. My endo charged me $80 for an office visit and then managed me the rest of my pregnancy for free. (Note: I had gone through three prior pregnancies with gestational diabetes.) One of the most famous midwives, Ina May Gaskin, too, was direct entry. While, in general, I think that a CNM makes sense, I want to put it out there that there are some excellent direct entry midwives too. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Never heard of the Botkin girls (I don't follow the Vision Forum things, so I had to google. Found this... "Overcoming Botkin Syndrome"...http://botkinsyndrome.blogspot.com

I don't think kicking her out would save her life… I don't think anybody does…for Yale it's an issue of liability…but I don't think that's why they threaten to do so. As for her refusing to get help, that's actually quite the norm w/anorexics. Usually there is some coercion required because most do not believe that there is anything wrong with them. It's a lot like addiction, although I think actually addicts probably have a better likelihood to voluntarily seek help. My guess is that Yale uses the threat of expulsion as a way to compel those that they truly believe have eating disorders to get help. Remember, it is extremely common in college, especially among upper middle class overachievers. No doubt the threat also leads to parental pressure as well, as the impact of being kicked out would not only be future-career/life, but also financial for the parents. My honest guess is that she probably was far thinner than 90 pounds as she claimed…80…85….could be from stress…could be from other issues…which triggered the intervention. Her EKG or electrolytes may have had issues…and/or in talking with her…there was stuff that came up…be it coping issues, or other things. She may/may not have disordered eating, but perhaps a tendency to drop weight when stressed, which could easily happen during college. Five pounds on somebody her size is a big drop. Ten pounds is huge. Coupled together they didn't feel it was safe to discharge her…especially as she didn't seem to be able to maintain any weight gain. Thus, the continuing monitoring to ensure that if her weight does drop, it can be addressed. Of course, I could be 100% wrong too.

I didn't see that this was a month old…just saw it come up yesterday. I find these things interesting from the article http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20140406/yale-student-92-lbs-stuffed-her-face-with-cheetos-ice-cream-to-pacify-school-officials "Chan said she’s contacted Yale Health officials many times, bringing up the idea that BMI may not be the best indicator of overall health for every person. She said a Yale doctor told her that while BMI is, indeed, only one factor, it is highly important." Implying that perhaps it was more than just her BMI which lead them to monitor her. "Chan, for her part, agreed to continue coming to Yale Health for monitoring — but only once a semester." I'm glad it was resolved…and it seems like they're taking other steps to improve how they handle these things..but both of these things imply to me that perhaps there is still more to her story than she's letting on. Why is she agreeing to continue to be monitored ? We'll never hear from the health officials involved, they cite privacy concerns…and will continue to.

I think the difference is the critical nature of anorexia, and their ability to monitor or treat it. If they wanted to tackle obesity, the only thing that has been proven to have a long-term (5+ years effect), is bariatric surgery. I would doubt that Yale's student health insurance would want to undertake that expense…but if they do…more power to them. My guess is they probably do have the right to kick somebody out of the dorms who is smoking (although I really don't know their smoking policy)…or even expel them if they continue to smoke in non-designated smoking areas on campus. Also, in looking at their specific paragraph, my reading is that it has to do with psychological issues, more than medical. …although somebody having TB or some such thing could be viewed as cause. "Yale College reserves the right to require a student to withdraw for medical reasons when, on recommendation of the director of Yale Health or the chief of the Mental Health and Counseling department, the dean of Yale College determines that the student is a danger to self or others because of a serious medical problem, or that the student has refused to cooperate with efforts deemed necessary by Yale Health to determine if the student is such a danger. An appeal of such a withdrawal must be made in writing to the dean of Yale College no later than seven days from the date of withdrawal." I

Trim it so it looks well…or even gather the beard in a ponytail, braid, it or some such thing. It shouldn't be ZZ Top scraggly…it should be shaped nicely. He could also talk about it in the interview. If he's going to shave it anyway…then I think a trim is fine. On a side note, I think that was a really neat way to mourn and grieve his Dad. Thumbs up to your DH.

No, doctors are often wrong…but in general, when you have a team of health professionals treating a person (as is in the case with this young woman)… you reduce that risk. I'll also mention that doctors are sued whether they follow the standard of care or not. They are sued whether it was their fault or not. There is, in general, an expectation of a perfect outcome. Even if risks and benefits are discussed, if a person has a bad outcome, they sue. It's just the way medicine is in the U.S. Nobody said that all skinny people die young. BUT, the fact that being anorexic has a 12x increased mortality is not a made up fact. http://www.anad.org/get-information/about-eating-disorders/eating-disorders-statistics/ Yes, there is a paper trail…but even with a paper trail…even with evidence to the contrary, the case could still easily end up in court. I do think that the girl and her parents should be able to sign an AMA thing. Perhaps that's been offered. Perhaps her parents don't agree or aren't as supportive. I really have no idea. BUt the University's policy also seems to say that they can kick her out if they so choose. I'll also add the eating disorders are a big problem in Japan. (Yes, I know…more random Asia stuff….but it's not like just because Asians are naturally thin that eating disorders do not exist.) http://www.georgiahanias.com/blog/?p=12 What stands out from above is that women in Japan now eat fewer calories than they did during WWII. This article is also quite good...http://www.princeton.edu/~aborovoy/fulltext.pdf "In 2001, the National Nutrition Survey (Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare 2001) reported that the rate of underweight females in early adulthood has increased dramatically in the past 10 years. Specifically, 10% of women in their 20s and 16% of women in their 30s report a body mass index (BMI) of less than 18.5 kg/m,2 a body mass that hovers near the diagnostic weight threshold for anorexia nervosa. These figures represent a 100% increase over the rate of underweight women only one decade ago. " The motivation can also be different..so while she may not fear being fat…there may be other issues at play. "Specifically, from 2002 to 2003, approximately 30% of women with DSM-IV anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa accounted for their food refusal with explanations other than weight concern or fat phobia (Pike 2003). Moreover, the meaning of weight and shape concerns appears to have a somewhat different quality from the pursuit of the superwoman beauty ideal in the West. To a great ex- tent, the pursuit of thinness in Japan is linked to the “culture of cute” as described above. Whereas thinness in Western conceptualization is often associated with provid- ing power and control that will, in turn, convey happiness, the Japanese pursuit of thinness is more reminiscent of Crisp’s account (1980) of eating disorders as a strategy for delaying maturation and the pursuant responsibilities. "

Here's one article on eating disorders in Asia…. http://www.med.nus.edu.sg/pcm/book/17.pdf "In a pilot study of 26 female medical students in Singapore 58% reported feeling moderately or very fat, despite a mean Body Mass Index (BMI) of 18.7. Alarmingly, four out of the 10 whose BMI was below 18 reported feeling very fat. In a study of Singapore Chinese schoolgirls with a mean age of 1 16.5 years, 56% felt overweight despite a mean BMI of 18.89 in the sample and 40% expressed a wish to be either a model, dancer or aerobics teacher. " The article also talks about the electrolyte, EKG, and other issues that can result from anorexia. From her article, it sounds like these things are still being tracked, which implies that even if she thinks her weight is OK, she may be experiencing issues from being underweight. NEJM says that a BMI of less than 16.5 is considered reason for aggressive treatment. Many facilities require an in-patient facility when a BMI falls below that. (The author qualifies, BTW.) Honestly, I hope she's right. I hope she's perfectly fine and healthy and that Yale has overstepped. I don't wish an eating disorder on anybody, especially as it is often a life long struggle.

No…but my assumption is based on the article in the Yale Herald on how others were treated, my knowledge of Yale's medical staff, and my knowledge regarding eating disorders that we are not getting the full story from her. Could she be perfectly 100% healthy thin and Yale is treating her regardless? Yes, but that is highly unlikely. If that was the case, we'd see more naturally thin Asian women going through months of treatment or being forced to resign. That was not supported by the Yale Herald article. Her length of treatment itself is a red-flag.

You're kidding yourself if you do not believe that parents would sue the school if she died, they knew she had a low BMI, and the school did nothing about it. Schools are sued also for alcohol-related accidents on campus…even if their kids were over 18. Doesn't matter if it should happen, if it's justified, if they are sued, they need to defend themselves. The costs could be significant….and they may very well decide to settle to avoid such costs. Thus, either way, they lose if they do not treat her. Also, if she agreed to Yale's policy regarding health/admissions policy as quoted above, then it's not the case of a slippery slope, but rather something she agreed to. You said that "for an Asian woman her BMI is normal and so is her weight." That's not actually true. According to the WHO, she is still considered underweight. According to journal articles on anorexia in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and China, she is still underweight. Her BMI is low enough to require in-patient treatment for anorexia. She's not just healthy thin. It's beyond that. Once again, if she was healthy thin, they still wouldn't be treating her. There have not been reports of a mass group of Asian females being kicked out, or forced to gain weight or be expelled. The article in the Yale newspaper did not support that, sorry.

We're in FL. I'm pretty sure we don't have any requirement, but DS2 covered FL history in 3rd grade in PS. I still try and include it, though. I think it's important to know about where you're from/where you live.

Oh my, the BBC now says it was up to 20 kids. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26959628 :sad:

I am cringing just reading your description. I haven't watched in a few years, but I always liked Jessa. It seemed to me that all of the Duggar girls' lives were on hold until they got married. They were just at home, taking care of little ones, etc. One of them expressed interest in becoming a midwife I think, but I don't remember her ever pursuing that in terms of college, nursing, etc. I hope that has changed.

Six kids stabbed. Praying for them. http://www.wtae.com/news/stabbing-at-franklin-regional-high-school-in-murrysville/25391318

Most universities do have rather strict policies about underage drinking, including expulsion. How Yale enforces that does not negate the need to also act if they notice something that may be potentially fatal. I'll also add that the mortality rate for anorexia is 12x higher than the rate of all other causes of death for females 15-24. No doubt, that includes accident-related and alcohol-related incidents. I think those who say "well, are they doing this to obese kids" or similar arguments are failing to realize that unlike obesity, anorexia can lead to quite a quick death. People are obese and even morbidly obese or super morbidly obese for years before they face the consequences of that excess weight. It's rare for somebody to experience a life/death event related to their obesity in their early 20s. It is not, however, unheard of for somebody with anorexia to die within four years (typical undergrad college length.) There is the assumption that everything she says is taken with face value. That nothing is wrong with her, she's just healthy skinny. That seems to be what people object to. Yet the Yale article pointed out that for girls whom that was the case, they stopped monitoring them quite soon. This young woman has been under supervision for over 4 months. There's more there. Criteria for an eating disorder is not just based on BMI, and my guess is that there are other things that have come out. Treating somebody for 4+ months who is perfectly healthy, is not the norm. Trying to get her into see a nutritionist as quick as possible is not normal.

In the article, one student had three weeks of weigh-ins, before being discharged. This girl has been doing it for four months…which makes me think that there's something she's not disclosing. The article also says, "But as fellow yalie Stacy* can attest to, this policy of flagging—and potentially penalizing—students with suspiciously low BMIs stretches past the athlete population. For a non-athlete, the BMI cutoff is in the territory of 16 (Stacy’s estimate was 15.5)—considerably harsher than it would be for an athlete." Quite frankly, yes, if they're willing to go as low as 16 or 15.5 before flagging somebody (and the article's author had a BMI of 16.5, if she gave accurate info in the article)…then no, I don't take issue with that. Those are very low BMIs, even for naturally thin people. Checking their electrolytes, an EKG, etc. would be a normal think to do. Making sure that there was no something wrong…especially given the prevalence of eating disorders in college, would not be wrong. I also think that the last few paragraphs make the case for the program, as well as reinforce that the author is perhaps leaving out some details as to why she's been flagged.

My guess that a lawyer, especially in the case of a death, would say otherwise…that Yale was her caretaker, etc. I think if she had something signed by herself and her parents that she was discharging herself AMA (against medical advice), then they might allow it…but I"m betting they'd want her parents to sign as well as a precaution.

My mistake, and yet why isn't she following their advice, then? I still say she is not telling the whole truth. She's seeing a boat load of people for the past what 3-4 months…and they seem to think that she still needs treatment. I don't think they're doing it out of fun. Her article sounds like to me an effort to force the University to leave her alone…whatever the consequences. She may not acknowledge that she doesn't menstruate, has lanugo, has electrolyte issues, or whatever. This is her story, and the university cannot respond due to HIPPAA concerns. She may not have any issues, but I find it hard to believe they'd still be treating her after 4 months of normal tests and the only issue was a failure to gain weight. Other health professionals would be speaking up regarding her care in treatment meetings, etc. Yale has tons of Asian students and surely knows BMI variations. Her BMI is 16.5 (based on the data she gives). According to WHO that does classify her as underweight--moderately thin. http://apps.who.int/bmi/index.jsp?introPage=intro_3.html Under normal BMI charts, someone with a BMI of 16.5 would be classified as anorexic. (Usually it's under 17.5) I cannot find any data that says a BMI that low would not classify her as anorexic even in Asian circles. WHO still sticks to <18.5 as underweight…I can't find anything that says that because 27 is obese for an Asian, then 15.5 is underweight…for example.

There are probably many girls walking around w/New Kids on the Block, 'NSync, and Backstreet Boys tattoos (well..they had them at one time, but got them fixed/lasered). There are no doubt many girls today getting One Direction or god forbid Justin Bieber tattoos. If I could tell them my story, I would. ANd they would say…"Adam who???" And i would say, "Exactly" I'd like to think that good tattoo artists do these sort of things.

DH is an ophthalmologist…and he says "poppycock." However, they have found that lack of exposure to sunlight can cause myopia in kids. This is why they think that Asian kids tend to have higher rates of myopia…as they are in school….and then cram schools, etc. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-15427954 "An analysis of eight previous studies by University of Cambridge researchers found that for each additional hour spent outside per week, the risk of myopia reduced by 2%. Exposure to natural light and time spent looking at distant objects could be key factors, they said."

I wouldn't normally pay it, but those are the prices here (SW FL) for normal nice casual breakfast places (not Denny's, Perkins, etc.) Near my Mom's house in Central Florida, they are a little cheaper. There's a chain called First Watch which does just breakfast/lunch. Here's their menu. I'm guessing it's in the 6-8 range there, but it's been awhile since I've gone. http://www.firstwatch.com/menu There's also the Peach Valley Cafe…which is nice. It would be $4.99 for eggs, hash browns, toast/biscuit…and add $2.99 if you want breakfast meat http://www.peachvalleyrestaurants.com/menu.php#eggs-menu For organic cage-free eggs here, it's around $4.50/dozen. We buy Applewood Turkey bacon…and get 2 packages for $10 at BJs. Nice 12 grain bread from Publix's bakery is $3.99/loaf.

Yale is pretty famous in eating disorders/body image arenas for their Rudd Institute. (OK, maybe it's Rudd Center…but you get the idea.) I find the author's story probably is missing some pertinent facts. Why? She claims they set her up with a nutritionist…and then goes on to say… " In addition to loading up on carbs for each meal, I've eaten 3-4 scoops of ice cream twice a day with chocolate, cookies, or Cheetos at bedtime." No nutritionist is going to suggest gaining weight on 3-4 scoops of ice cream, chocolate, cookies, and Cheetos. I'm sorry. None--especially not one affiliated with a university (they tend to be more up to date regarding journals, etc.) We also never hear what her electrolyte tests revealed and other tests revealed. I also find it really hard to believe that physicians at Yale, which like all of the Ivies has a large Asian population, would be unfamiliar with lower BMI trends for Asians. (For example, Asians are considered obese often at 27 vs. 30 for a caucasian person.) If they were going after every Asian girl who was as slim as she reports herself to be, it would be far more well known/reported. ​I could be 100% wrong…but her story doesn't add up to me. And I don't see Yale responding precisely because of HIPPAA issues.

Oh thanks for the reminder! I remember seeing something about Mars being very visible this month.

I've lived mainly in Birkis for the past 25 years…ever since I became a massage therapist. But when I have to wear real shoes, I go for Earth shoes, Clark's, or Munro American.