I saw an article recently (USN&WR?) about what a great deal overseas universities are for U.S. students -- even factoring in airfare & nonresident surcharges -- and how American students are beginning to take advantage of this. I took classes at a German university (after passing a language test, which I assume isn't required in anglophone countries ;-) --although I'm sure there are some misunderstandings at first!) and the cost was minimal. A great deal!

oh yes -- and it's connected to a rotary-dial phone ;-) My husband says I was born in the wrong century. Also the reasons people have already given -- it will work during a power outage, and this way I can give my cell phone number to only a few important people.

Exactly -- that occurred to me only much later, that she was very likely fuzzy on decimals herself. I'll have to check out the book you mentioned -- sounds intriguing! Yes, that, and probably being unsure about decimals herself; and thinking he was showing off, perhaps, since 1st-graders aren't supposed to know about division, much less decimals; perhaps she thought I was a pushy parent (in fact I never taught him about division or decimals; he just absorbed math like a sponge); her own sons were slightly older, so perhaps it was jealousy . . . who knows? *Sigh* is right . . . well, it led *us* to homeschooling and a much saner family life. Yes. I do worry about all the gifted kids learning to hate school, and how we're failing these kids . . .

My son was one of two kids in his K class who already read fluently; they got extra books & library time. He was skipped up to 1st grade as soon as there was an opening (Thanksgiving) and his 1st-grade teacher seemed annoyed by his work. For example, on a math page they were supposed to write different ways to make numbers (e.g., 8=6+2, 5+3, etc.), and he wrote 8=20÷2.5. She didn't mark it wrong, but she wasn't pleased. That was in March. By April I was researching homeschooling, and we've never looked back. Now at 12 he's doing precalculus and loving life ;-) Oh, when they agreed to the grade skip, the principal, psychologist, etc. told us that they do grade-skips only when the child is working at least 3 or 4 grades ahead, so this wouldn't really solve the problem. Hey, they were right! ~Laura

Our local CC is rather weak (I know other CCs are well regarded), and in fact the admissions director for Caltech told me that, contrary to what I might have heard, a semester of CC physics is not at all equal to a year of high-school *AP* physics. (I don't think he was worried about the credits per se -- more that my sons get a thorough education.) And a friend of mine looked at what students learn in first-year French at our CC and found it far inferior to first-year French at the Potter's School, so her kids are taking French through Potter's. YMMV -- I wish our CC was as good as some of yours sound!! ~Laura ETA: I should add that our CC charged only $20 per unit (increased last month to $26 per unit b/c of the budget crisis), so my friend's decision to go with Potter's for two girls (around $460 each kid) was not taken lightly! (High-school students may even pay no fees -- I'm not sure. $26 is the regular fee.)

Carole - my son is doing the C++ course this week and is really enjoying it. (This summer he's also taking a Python class and went to Java camp, which I thought was enough, haha, but he begged to do this, and it's only $129, so . . . why not? ;-) I'm *so* glad you posted about this class -- thanks for taking the time to do that. I love love love this board!! (& my kids benefit ;-) ~Laura

as an adult: 3 months in Austria 1 year in Germany 7 years in Switzerland extended vacations in England and Korea (staying with relatives for a chunk of the vacation) We love to travel!! We'd go somewhere tomorrow if we had time & money ;-)

I confess, I've always been partial to "stadia," haha (and yes, it does come up occasionally). I really like "fora," too. (OK, I'll admit it --I'm a pedant!) "Phenomena" (pl.) and "phenomenon" (sing.) used improperly also bother me. And "vertebrae" used for "vertebra." A few phrases that bother me (and what's interesting is that the improper usage is almost plausible, so I can see how it has started to take hold -- all of a sudden I see these everywhere, even in the newspaper): free reign without further adieu here, here wet one's appetite last rights I could go on, but these don't really have to do with the OP -- just things that bother me!!

Wow, Carole - I'm glad you posted this. I'd never heard of Giant Campus, but it looks like a great, affordable program. I think my son would love it. Thanks! ~Laura

This looks like a pretty comprehensive list (except it doesn't have homeschooler-specific info): http://www.compassprep.com/admissions_req_subjects.aspx Looks like, for example, all the Ivies want subject tests (Harvard requires 3 (!)), although some will accept the ACT instead; and the University of California campuses want 2. Yes, easy to find by a Google search!

Thank you, Brenda and Barb -- I think that's good advice. You're right, my kids *are* still young, and I don't want them to get burnt out on too much testing. (They've taken the PSAT & SAT for talent searches, but those didn't require as much prep!) I think I'll wait and see how this year of biology goes. Their interests really lie more in the computer & engineering areas (I think one of my sons will *love* the USACO -- thanks to Kathy for the suggestion!), so unless they end up really getting intrigued with biology this year, I'll probably not worry about the subject test yet. ~Laura

Yes, achievement tests (abbreviated ACH) -- and I also did three in one day -- Latin, Math Level II, and one other (must have been chem?). And yes, NO study guides -- we just went in cold!! Life was simpler back then ;-) That's interesting about 8 data points. It validates my tentative plan, which is to have a variety of data points to verify "home" work -- i.e., a mix of SAT subject tests, APs, maybe a CLEP or two, summer programs, online classes, and a few CC classes. (Whew!) But I think the variety should keep life interesting ;-) ~Laura

I posted on another SAT II thread (I think -- I'm getting confused!) that yes, this testing could be seen as annoying, especially when colleges ask more from homeschoolers, but it really IS a nice way to validate mommy grades (and a $9 one-hour test is - for us - a much better value, in terms of $$ AND time, than CC courses), and also I did a ton of tests myself back in the 1970s/80s because I applied to selective (highly selective? elite? - I don't know the lingo) colleges such as Stanford and Caltech -- I took the PSAT, SAT, APs, and at *least* three SAT Subject Tests, which were required for some schools and "highly recommended" for the others ( = take them if you want to be a competitive candidate for both admission and aid). So I don't see it as a burden for my kids; more an opportunity (of course it helps that they're weird like me and kinda like taking tests, haha). Thanks a ton, Kathy! It's good to know that some colleges will ask for all scores . . . but you're right, they know what 9th grade boys are like ;-) I'm glad it worked out for your son despite the College Board's mixup. Congratulations on the Caltech acceptance! Kathy - I have a question for you but I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll try to PM you (I've never done that before!). Thanks to everyone for all the info & advice! ~Laura

Thanks, Kathy, for doing that "experiment"! My younger son will be in 8th grade, so I guess for him it's a no-brainer. I'll have to think about my older son (9th grade next year) . . . although he's a more "deliberate" test-taker and could probably use the practice more . . . At any rate, that's very good to know (about each college having its own policy). I may ask the admissions director at Caltech what he recommends. I think I told you we attended a talk he gave last fall, and he was very approachable and seemed to really look at the applicants as *kids* -- i.e., real people who are growing up and going through adolescence. For example, one boy said he'd been sick most of 10th grade and his grades had suffered -- how would that be seen by the admissions folks? And the director (can't remember his name!) said there's a trend they often see with young men (almost never with young women, he said!), where 9th grade is *not* stellar; by 10th grade they've picked up some steam; and by 11th grade they're focused and on track. That was very reassuring to hear ;-) Thanks, as always, Kathy! ~Laura

I don't want to hijack this thread, but this is a related question -- My sons (12 & 14) will be studying Apologia Bio this coming year. We (in our coop) were thinking of having the kids study supplemental texts as time allows, and take the SAT Subject Test in May. After reading this thread I'm thinking they won't be well prepared, and maybe they shouldn't take it? BUT . . . I don't see my boys taking AP bio or advanced bio later (they are much more interested in chem, physics, computers), AND I'm thinking that -- if we don't *have* to send the score to colleges, and considering that they will be at the start of their high-school career when they take it, with plenty of time for much better scores on chem & physics Subject Tests -- it might be a valuable opportunity to gain experience taking these kinds of tests. As Holly said, the kids learned how long an hour is, etc.! My kids have both taken the regular SAT as part of a talent search, but this will be a whole different experience. So, a question for Brenda, Kathy, musicmom, or anyone else who knows -- I've heard (from one of Kathy's posts) you can pick which SAT Subject Test scores to send, even from the same test date. But would a college ever say "send all *subject test* scores"? In this thread http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102464 Kathy posted a very helpful link showing which colleges will ask for *all* SAT Reasoning Test scores. I'm wondering if the same would hold true for the subject tests . . . I hope my question is clear! I guess I'm asking, should my kids go ahead and take the biology subject test this May, even though I *know* they won't get a high score, just for practice? (The talent-search SAT was given in small classrooms with fellow junior-high kids; these would be at an unfamiliar high school with "big kids," so I'm thinking just getting used to the environment might be a good tradeoff for a low score . . . ) Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! I have learned a TON from this thread, and am printing it out for future reference. Thanks, as always!! ~Laura

Just thought I'd mention that taking multiple SAT Subject Tests is nothing new. Back in the old days, I took a bunch of SAT Subject Tests (I think they were called Achievement Tests back then, in the 70s and 80s) -- and all on the same day (it never occurred to me to space them out a little!). The colleges I was applying to all had different requirements, so I ended up taking at least three. For example, Caltech wanted Math Level 2 and a science; Pomona said you could test out of their graduation requirement of two years of a foreign language by getting a certain score -- and I got *exactly* that score on the Latin test, haha -- so that would've saved me two years of foreign language *while in college*, giving me more time for other courses (I ended up taking German anyway and loved it). I went to public school, and applied to selective private colleges. Just fyi. I'm following all the SAT Subject Test threads with great interest, because my kids are just getting to this point! And how nice that they won't have to take more than one or two on any given day ;-) ~Laura

have excellent EE & computer departments; companies in the area that snap up recent graduates are Apple, Google, Intel, Sun, Cisco, HP, IBM, eBay, PayPal, Facebook, Netflix, etc., & there are still quite a few startups in the Bay Area ;-) . . . or just as a summer job, lots of opportunities! Oh, and the national labs in Livermore, and SLAC (the linear accelerator), and NASA Ames . . . something for everyone! ~Laura

Yes, they're official, but in my son's case, they're good enough (especially considering he was 11) to keep. I have no experience with the ACT. I was just researching the high-school board to find a thread that talks about College Board's new policy of letting you select which SAT scores to send to colleges (you must send all subscores from a single sitting -- i.e., you can't cherry pick a math score from one date and a critical reading score from another; and of course we're talking about the SAT I here, not the subject tests), and I ran across this thread which has another helpful post from Kathy: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102464 Kathy, that list of colleges and *their* policies on Score Choice was very informative! I hadn't realized that just because it's now offered by the College Board, some colleges wouldn't necessarily accept it. That dovetails with the advice I was given (that unless a student's talent search scores are *very* high, go ahead and have them dropped from the record). In fact, I see that some of the schools my son is interested in require *all* scores to be sent. Last fall we attended a talk by the director of admissions at Caltech, and one of the things he did was encourage the students to send *all* their scores -- trust us, he said, to take into account only the highest in each subsection, but please send all of them. ~Laura

Kimm, that's good to know. Thanks for the info -- I think I will bookmark this thread to refer back to when my son is older. I had been wondering if EE would be a good major for him, but I don't know -- he's just not mechanically inclined ;-) We'll have to see! Best wishes to your son -- it sounds like he is getting good direction! ~Laura

Kimm -- I'm not sure. I haven't thought that far ahead yet (my son is 12!). For now the Potter's classes are wonderful for a young kid who isn't ready for CC yet. I *have* heard that a computer engineering degree is more versatile than a computer science or computer programming degree, but I don't see my son as doing too well in engineering-type stuff (better with his head than his hands ;-) I have found the Potter's teachers extremely helpful & approachable. Anyone who has any questions can just e-mail them via the Potter's website. Mr Gray *called* me when I was wondering what my son should do after Mr Gray's junior-high class, and spent a long time discussing the Potter's computer curriculum, computer degrees in general, my son's strengths in particular, etc. (Mr Gray is young -- 27ish -- and a recent graduate with a degree in, I think, computational math -- something that wasn't a major at my college back in the old days!) Mr Yonts (the Java teacher) also sent me long e-mails when I was pondering whether my son should take Java or Web Design. Mr Connor (the web-design teacher) has tutored my son one-on-one several times. I can't rave about these guys enough! -- especially since our CC is pretty pathetic (and my son is still young). I'm sure other CCs have much better programs, with hands-on classes (something that's hard for an online class). ~Laura

If you live out in the country, this might be a good option. My son has taken the junior-high programming class at Potter's School (Logo to Lego) and the first year of the Web Design course; he'll take the second year next year. Over the summer the web-design teacher, Mr Connor, is teaching Python as a supplement for interested kids (this is a very hot language right now): http://mrconnor.com/cgi-bin/mrconnor.cgi Potter's also offers Java, Visual Basic as Gwen mentioned, C++, etc. and Mr Yonts (the Java/Linux teacher) said they will also offer a data structures class soon. Mr Gray (the Logo and C++ teacher) says Potter's School is getting to have as many programming classes as a good CC (I can vouch for that -- our CC has many "computer tech" and "computer repair" classes, but only a handful of actual programming classes). I have nothing but praise for the Potter's computer classes -- the instructors know their stuff & are incredibly helpful and accessible if the kid has a problem. It's been wonderful for my son who lives and breathes computers ;-) ~Laura

Yes -- both of my boys were accepted, but one qualified to take classes only in math/sci; the other can take any class (not that he will, because of the expense). SAT "flushes" the scores at the end of the academic year (June) for any test-taker not yet in 9th grade (if the scores are high and you *want* to keep them on the student's record, you just write to the College Board and ask them to do that). Also (for future reference!), the SAT now allows you to choose which scores to send to colleges, like the ACT. ~Laura

Nissi, I'm not sure about graphing-calculator instruction, since we've stopped for the summer at chapter 10. I'm thinking it isn't included (so far he's used a free, basic web-based calculator & an Excel-like spreadsheet to perform calculations, and another free graphing program called, I think, Graphmatica, to graph functions), but I've e-mailed David Chandler, who sometimes posts here, asking him to answer this! ~Laura

they were a life-saver. We used the DVD-ROMs for Foerster's Algebra II, and yes, the DVD-ROMs include instruction (& he works through many of the problems) for the *entire* book, including chapters 13-15, the trig part. (We're using the "Classic" Foerster's Algebra/Trig book.) We just quit for the year after finishing chapter 10, so I just popped the disc in to make sure it covers chs. 13-15 (it does), and noticed a folder called "Resources" with a lot of extra files -- including some called "2-cycle Log-Log," "5x5 Augmented Matrix," "Ambiguous Case," "Binomial Distribution," etc. I think the DVD-ROM is a great value. My children were able to work fairly independently after viewing the lesson. I did feel like I had to watch it with my kids, though, to make sure they caught everything. Often I'd say things like "Oh, did you hear that?" or "Do you know why he just did that?" to make sure they weren't just watching passively. I was very impressed with how Mr Chandler explained the concepts -- I think he adds a lot to the textbook. And as opposed to just reading the text by yourself, you can hear someone explaining the concepts and showing demonstrations -- sweeping out a hyperbola, for example, or showing how a hyperbola turns into an ellipse, I think, by varying the parameters. FWIW, math always came easily to me (I got the math award in high school and took several post-calculus math classes in college), but that was several decades ago (!) and I'm not sure I had the luxury I have now (as a homeschooling mom) to take the time to mull things over & make connections. The Math without Borders materials have aided greatly in my understanding & it's very exciting for me (my kids aren't quite as thrilled, haha, but I know they're a big help for them, too). ~Laura

Hi, Jackie - My son (11, turning 12) took this class this year. It's the first year Mr Connor has taught it. There was a wide range of ages (11-17) and abilities in the class, and Mr Connor was a novice teacher, so he had to scale back his syllabus quite a bit so the kids could catch up. Some kids had had *no* computer experience, and some kids knew several languages already; I'd say Mr Connor figured out a good pace and it's doable if your kids are motivated. My son is a real computer geek and was (barely) managing to keep up at first (when Mr C was using a college text & going at a college pace, he said), but like I said he slowed the pace down & sometimes my son had nothing to do for a week, but that's fine - it gave him time to work on other projects. My son *loved* the class and is planning to take the second year of Web Design from Mr Connor next year. (*I* was thinking he should take the Java class, but I think he's right that he should finish the sequence so he really knows web design.) We can't say enough good things about Mr Connor. Several times when my son was confused, he tutored him one-on-one (once was on a Saturday morning). They could hear each other and see each other's computer screens, even though they were 3000 miles apart -- it blows my mind. He also has group tutoring sessions when kids need it so you can log on (if the time fits you) and hear other kids' questions being answered. My son only needed the tutoring a few times but it was very helpful. Also, he recorded every class, and posted the links on the class page, so if you missed class one day, or were a little confused and wanted to see it again, it was very easy to watch a class later. Mr Connor answers e-mail requests for help usually the same day. He's also offering Python classes this summer, which (if your sons are interested & have the time) would give them a head start -- they use Python in the second semester of the Web Design class. Registration for these summer classes closes this Sunday 5/31. http://mrconnor.com/cgi-bin/mrconnor.cgi My son is planning to take the "Practical Programming with Python" course -- it will cover Python applications that Mr Connor wanted to get to this past semester (which he says the kids can use in later physics classes, etc.) but didn't have time to. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to ask my son. He highly recommends this class! ~Laura