As with everything, it depends on so many things. I started homeschooling when my oldest was mid-5th grade, and we used SOTW as "extra reading" for 5th-8th along with maps from the AG, a timeline, KIHW for outlining, Robert Johnson's US History book, history-related read alouds and occasionally books from the library and primary sources. He is now a 9th grader, and doing well with the SMARR Ancient Literature course (which covers about 10 of the Great Books listed in WTM for 9th grade) and using TruthQuest for history, which helps us choose living books interspersed with history books from the 9th-grade Great Books list in WTM. For every topic I check what he is learning vs. the college-level Western Civilization by Spielvogel (the WTM recommendation in the 2nd Edition), and we are always on par or better. So, I think in his case SOTW worked VERY well, and alongside the WTM Logic stage literature, adequately prepared him for the level of reading and comprehension needed to study the Great Books in high school. But....I am not using SOTW in the same way for my 2nd ds (who is now in 6th grade doing Ancients). I do *occasionally* pull it out because it covers some people and events that are just not addressed in library books here. In general, we prefer using library books (or just sections out of library books) to SOTW because they usually have pictures, and we like getting our information from a variety of sources. I am also making more use of primary sources and narratives other than SOTW (such as Story of the Greeks or abridged versions of Plutarch's Lives). The biggest factor of this change is that I was learning so much alongside my oldest ~ but *I* have grown and know more now than I did then. And, this child remembers quite a bit of what he learned from SOTW even though he was in 2nd grade when he did Ancients last time. (He is still using the WTM Lit list, and IMO the lit list is far more important than how you do history.) Whatever you do, be sure you pick something your child can understand and enjoy! Best wishes! ps - Yes, I do think Level 1 gets "too young" earlier than Level 4.

Thanks! nft

My 9th grader is doing Lesson 12 (of 15) in SWI-C this week. It covered decorations. After Christmas, he'll do Unit 8 (and maybe Unit 9???) and we'll be done with the SWI assignments. Of course, I'll keep recycling them - mostly in history - but I'd like to keep going, adding in the things that SWI doesn't cover, and continuing to polish things. My 6th grader is doing SWI-B this year. He's moving slower through the lessons, and I'm adding in Unit 4 which wasn't included in the SWI. My plan was to stretch the SWI through the whole year, but I bet he will finish about March. I'll cross that bridge when it's a bit closer - LOL! I wish I had the time and expertise to just apply the TWSS. But, I'm afraid there are so many little things that would slip through the cracks (for example, introducing the "hidden" who/which). Also, my boys *really* like Mr. Pudewa, and I like that they see a male figure who is excited about learning. Off to spend some money!

Thanks! I've been scouring their website trying to figure out what the "official" recommendation is without much luck. (other than finding the typical "there is no one right way..." LOL)

No advice, but a question: Is there a reason to do The Elegant Essay *before* the SICC-C? I'm leaning toward doing the SICC before the Elegant Essay, so I'm just curious. Thanks!

First, Thank You!!! for all the detailed info in the other post!!! We have just started IEW this year with 6th and 9th graders, but I have a 4yo coming up through the untested (for me) waters of K-2 homeschooling, and this will be *very* helpful!! I know this is the K-8 Board, but since you have experience.....my 9th grader will be finishing SWI-C very soon, and I'm not sure where to go. Just curious what you would recommend for a boy who has pretty sound logic, good vocabulary, and writes fairly easily though he still struggles with proofing his own writing. (Can find every error in the Fix-It Grammar book, but his own is a different story.....:tongue_smilie:) I have a post on the high school board if you'd rather answer there. Thanks!!!

My brain is in need of a long winter's nap, and I just can't decide if we should go ahead and start The Elegant Essay, or just keep doing TWSS-type assignments, or spring for the SICC-C. BTW - This is for my 9th grade DS. Thanks!!!

I had no issue whatever using SOTW-3 with 4th and 7th grade ds's. My then-4th gr ds used Usborne ILE and the 7th grader used KIHW separately (with maps and timelines). Then, we read and wrote about one SOTW "story" or a day. We added in American history with the Johnston book (Making of US?) recommended in WTM, and we concentrated on the US-centered historical fiction in our Read-Aloud time. We followed this plan for SOTW-4 as well. Things went fine until we got to Hitler. That was disturbing for my 5th grader. Then, when we studied the Civil Rights era, my 5th grader cried to think that his grandparents lived through this. He couldn't fathom that people could be so evil. Yes, there has been evil all along, and he had railed against it vehemently whenever we encountered it; but it was farther removed, and not as scary, I guess. I thought I would mention this since you asked about "upper elementary". I have a dd who is 4, and I think with her I'm going to wait to start SOTW-1 in the 3rd grade simply because I don't want to expose her to SOTW-4 too early. Every child and family is different, obviously - just sharing our experiences.

Honestly...this is a long-standing tradition. I doubt it's gonna change - mostly because there are two sets of posters. There are posters who predominantly post on the curriculum board, and that's where their "home" is - where their friends are. So, naturally, that's where they post everything. And, vice versa. If 90% of your posts have been on one board, and you know the people there and they know you, to post on the other would be like airing your dirty laundry to strangers. (The proverbial "you", obviously.) Thank goodness for the pm feature of the new board!!!! BTW, let's not forget the high school board - tho' everyone there realizes curriculum and method and personalities all converge in homeschooling, so no one ever tries to have a "high school curriculum board" with a separate "high school non-curriculum, but still about homeschooling board" and a separate "High school just chatty" board. It's just a holistic "High school board" thank goodness! How many boards would you have moms-with-kids-in-all-three-stages checking every day? On a related issue, if you want anyone with experience answering the grammar stage questions, you better keep the K-8 board all together. I am so thankful for all the moms who went before me *especially ones who already had high schoolers* who came to the K-8 Board to answer my questions. Keep the questions easy to access, and you'll get better answers. JMHO, YMMV, and all that jazz~

:tongue_smilie: Sorry! I do that all the time....my 6th grader had to get on to me today about it. (I always want to drop the -is, and then look at the stem instead of looking at the nominative.) going back to "surfing only" mode now!

According to this site, it is a 3rd declension noun meaning valley. (But, I don't use Lively Latin, so I don't know if that fits where you are.) According to the lancet rule, it would be neuter. But, it looks like it may be an exception and be feminine. (I guess that would make sense since the words for mountain and hill are masculine.) (Sorry I can't link directly to "vallis", but you just have to enter into the search engine at the link.)

I would highly recommend SWB's "Great Books: History as Literature" CD. It is *NOT* just for "The Great Books" in high school. She starts with elementary "Great Books" and then walks you through how to talk about books to your logic stage students, starting slowly and working up to high school level. (The great thing being you can definitely use books from MFW or anywhere!)

:lol::lol: Oooohhh....The way I remember it..... the very week I started using & really appreciating R&S Math 4 (Thanks to you!!!) was the very same week you posted about switching to CLE. I've been willfully ignoring all CLE posts since that time!!! :lol::lol: Was it really that long ago??? :001_huh: (PS - I am still thankful for R&S. It gave my very much still grammar-stage, concrete thinker the tools he needed to understand math - especially fractions. He turned 12 in September, his hormones have hit, and he is *finally* able to understand word problems without me.)

I have Teaching the Classics, and I especially like their narrative arc, and the emphasis on literary terms. Also, it was very useful to see a socratic discussion taking place - something to model my own discussions after. It was also helpful for my sons to see what a discussion about literature actually involves. But, I don't feel confident enough to use it as my only source. In creating my own study guides, I always fall back on Well Educated Mind. I can use it with any book, and never feel lost not knowing which questions I should be asking. If I go through all the WEM questions, I know which ones are really important. Then I can go through and plan our discussion, using a mixture of both sources.

I have R&S here for 3rd - 8th grade, and only one more child to go. I had planned to just get her R&S for K-2, and then use what I have here. But, your review holds alot of weight. I'll look at the CLE before deciding...just wondering would *you* opt to replace R&S for CLE (assuming money is no object at the time we need to purchase ;)). Thanks!

I really think it's just a thing adults do when they really do want to talk to your dc, but they just honestly don't know what to talk about. (My kids were in public school until oldest was in 5th grade, and we still had to deal with this). But, yes, you can quickly change the subject by just addressing your child, and asking him to tell whomever is questioning him about (insert whatever you think is most appropriate). Any abruptness in that approach is usually forgotten in the excitement of the conversation that ensues.

Way to go!!! :hurray::hurray::hurray:

I'm no expert. My 9th gr DS is in Latin 2 (an online Henle class) after using LC I and II and Latin I at home without macrons. When this thread first appeared, I went through and looked to see exactly how helpful macrons would be for my 6th gr DS (doing Henle with me at home). The only time it seems helpful is for differentiating between the 1st declension nominative and ablative (and that helpfulness is minimal). Since all the 3rd conjugation verbs are irregular, we have had to memorize all four parts - hence we just *know* they're 3rd conjugation. The bummer being the unexpectedly high number of irregular 2nd conjugation verbs. ;) The long and short of it for me is that it seems just as easy to memorize, "compleo is a 2nd conjugation verb" as it is to memorize, "compleo, complere has a macron in it, so it's a 2nd conjugation verb." But to each their own~

Perhaps the fault is all completely mine.... But I find that as my kids have gotten older we are much less efficient. At least *my* day seems so. There is *so* much shuffling around (on my part) from 9th grader to 6th grader to 4yo (and back and forth, and interruptions for questions) to cleaning up messes and cooking lunch and dinner and so on and so on. And, no, the cleaning and the cooking wouldn't be nearly so much if the kids weren't here! My 9th grader is putting forth a lot of effort to be more independent this year (my 6th grader, too). But they *both* still need *me* to be a teacher. It is difficult getting to everything and everyone! I often feel guilty at my 9th grader's very long days ~ knowing that if I were available at every moment he needed me, his day would be so much shorter. But, such is life.

Between 12-18 books. It usually takes my ds's between 2-3 weeks to read, discuss, and write about a book. (It usually takes us 1 day to discuss, and 2-3 days to write a rough draft, edit, and make a final copy.) I don't normally plan out exact reading assignments until just before we are ready to start the book. Usually, the first day I will have 6th-gr-ds read "for 45 minutes" and ask him a few questions afterwards so that I can gauge how difficult the reading is for him. Then, I break up the book accordingly. Of course, I didn't spend a whole lot of time searching for books - I just used the lists in WTM. We covered poetry/fairy tales as read alouds, and still usually didn't finish the entire WTM list (with my older DS, now in 9th).

I think it goes along so well with what I call your "9th graders really don't have to be college students" thread. ;)

Please give your daughter a big "Thank you!"

This year we are using IEW for the first time (SWI-C). Most weeks we just use their materials for writing in "composition". We are just about through with SWI-C, and I'll probably get (oh - I think it's called Elegant Essay?? ) by IEW to teach persuasive writing after Christmas. I do *try* to apply the IEW to his history. He does history three days a week, and I use TruthQuest to find sources. I like for him to write *something* each day in history, but sometimes we need two days just for reading. The writing assignments vary greatly. Sometimes we just "take notes" so that he can use the notes during "composition". Other days, I have him write 1-3 paragraphs. These usually get edited, but not "polished" iykwim. We haven't started 5-paragraph persuasive essays in history, yet. I doubt that we will until next year. We are doing Smarr for literature, and it is teaching how to write a 5-paragraph literature analysis essay. They are assigned about every 3-6 weeks?? (I think there are 8 scheduled in the year.) Each essay is followed by a week of "writing lessons". I have found these very helpful - it follows exactly what I learned in AP English (tho' that was years ago!). This is not the once-a-week writing in lit that SWB recommends. My compromise is to use the Critical Thinking questions as "oral essays". We brainstorm the thesis and possible supporting points and what evidence you would need from the text to back up the supporting points. I try to do this a couple of times each week. We are using Apologia Biology this year, and I have not had much luck with assigning writing assignments in Science.

Try this link, which explains briefly how to do literature for logic and rhetoric stages (tho' I think these notes are from the first edition of WTM). A book list is included. hth!

I have started having a "Coffee Conference" with my 9th grader each morning. It's a time to go over what has already been done while we drink coffee and wake up (and everyone else is still aleep!). This works mostly because he so much of what he is doing is set up to be independent, and he *wants* to be independent. Our conference isn't a "teaching" session, but oral quizzing and discussions and just checking in to be sure that assignments have been completed. I still go subject-by-subject with my 6th grader.