Do I agree in theory? Yes. Could I live with myself and abide by such a non-enabling path when they were real children in my presence needing *someone* to care about them regardless of their parents' obvious and grievous (and even heinous) neglect and downright abuse? No. Still contemplating the unfairness of life and how that relates to God's sovereignty (another thread), and spending the day praying for all the teachers who will face such realities in the coming weeks~

Exactly! I still use the old, old OOP Kingfisher for outlining just because I have it here! There's nothing wrong with the old recs at all. I'm even using the Reader's Digest science books with my 6th grader this year. Again - that's what I had here already - so, for me, much cheaper than buying a bunch of kits - tho' admittedly, probably not as cool! Whatever you have for history that is chronological, with world-wide coverage, will work - whether it's been "recommended" or not. The process - read, timeline, maps, read more deeply on a topic of interest, and do some writing - stays the same. The only thing that *really* changed in the 3rd ed. was that instead of starting with "outline from a history encyclopedia", you start by "taking notes" from an encyclopedia, then find a passage to outline from your extra reading.

Thanks for all your help, Lori! Have a wonderful time!!!

:iagree: The first year of Henle covers more grammar than R&S-5.

Thanks, that helps!

Trying to nail down ds's weekly schedule, and I can't decide if SWI-C is supposed to be a three-day-a-week class, or an every day class. Would you please share how you scheduled it, and about how long each class session averaged? Thanks!

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I would also love to read all the responses below.... But, I'm going to the lake with my kids before our (way too short!) summer is over.

I never do what anyone tells me to do, even if it would be best! :D I can so understand wanting *someone* to come tell me what to do! I even ordered a history syllabus for my 9th grader - which uses a book we *don't* have - because I'm killing myself trying to figure what is "Right" for him. (Right reading level, right reading amount, right writing amount, right writing kind...it never ends!) I'm hoping when it gets here, I'll be able to adapt it to something I have here. (Now that's crazy!) I've no experience with TQ. But, I did do a small part of HO one year. (Not having homeschooled in elementary, my then-6th grader just didn't have the background knowledge needed to make Level 2 interesting for him.) But, HO really did eliminate that angst that came from *me* having to decide what to do each day. And, the way it is set up, you can easily pencil out anything you think is "too much". (I decided against doing the literature included with HO since we were working through the WTM list anyway. This gave us quite a bit more time to spread out the actual history lessons.) When my boys were in a logic/grammar spread, I did history-related read alouds chosen from the "supplementary books" list (in the logic-stage lit section of WTM) and Sonlight. For years 3 and 4, I concentrated on American-history related books. I didn't have a schedule, just a list of books, and read for 30-45 daily (unless we were close to the end of the book - then we might read all day - LOL!). I tried to read before my DD woke for the day (she was 2-3yo at the time), but sometimes read after lunch. Those are definitely our favorite homeschool memories - and greatly increased our understanding and ability to remember. (IOW, keep them! - :001_smile:) So....my choice would be HO, modified to just the history portion, along with historical fiction read alouds. (That means you'll probably want to have a separate lit program, though. I'm not big on doing lit analysis in middle school, so we were fine just picking books from the WTM lists.) Best wishes whatever you decide!

I'm planning to, just out of economic necessity. I've even written questions & notes to him within the books to help spur our future conversations. I thought, like the other poster, that it would teach him how to do it for himself. But, I guess that means it *would* be nice if he did get his "own" book every now and then. :001_huh:

I'm not sure who the "we" in your first sentence is referencing. I had offered to provide scriptural references for my argument that scripture assumes (not declares) annihilation, if by annihilation you mean "the second death" of those who are not reborn. But we have online Latin today, and you don't really seem interested, so I won't bother. I realize, and I'm sure you do as well, how very difficult it is to put into imperfect words, in a single post, the things that God reveals to us personally and over many years, anyway. My post to "Pamela H in Texas" truly wasn't meant to breed "quarrels and fights among" us, but to connect with someone who seems to have come to the same understanding I have. Blessings!

sorry - double post

How can one be alive if one is separated from God, since God is life? Actually, I believe the "lake of fire" in Revelation is a twin to the metaphor describing God as a "consuming fire". The body returns to dust, and the spirit returns to God (a "consuming fire") whether the person is hidden in Christ or not. In my assuredly incomplete opinion, this opens the possibility that the "fire" (God's presence) will completely consume those who are not hidden in Christ (they are no more), while those who are in Christ are purified (having the dross removed - is that how Paul put it?). So, *everyone* is actually going back to God. The thing I do admit that I like about this view (apart from that it makes sense to me as I'm reading through the Bible), is that, ironically (?), it means that those unbelievers who say that there is no existence after death have spoken correctly (for themselves at least). ps - I realize I am pulling bits and pieces of scripture out, and tying them together without proper references - my DD needs breakfast sometime this morning. I will try to put the references in later. Could you please provide a biblical reference that defines hell as eternal separation from God?

I'm so pleasantly surprised to read your post! My DH and I sometimes feel so alone in believing that "hell" is not everlasting punishment, but "death" - or non-existence, if you will. It seems so obvious to us that we should take God at His word. However, we have found it best to just bite our tongues and not muddy the waters whenever this topic comes up at church. Just wondering if you've found a church that teaches this (or at least accepts it as a possibility).

Oh, Rosie, you just made my day! I thought I was the only one who made elaborate garden plans including year-round harvests, and grey-water systems, and solar systems, and how to make homemade bread, etc, without ever having any of those plan come to fruition. (I even have two grain mills! - one electric, the other manual. They're both boxed up in the garage.) I *hope* that one day maybe those plans will turn into an actual accomplishment. I'm kind of afraid that I'll be so old (and in so much pain), they will just get thrown away upon my death! Which, would really be a shame because they're such good plans! =) I also completely relate to the other poster's liking how-to and self-help books better than other genres. Always have - not sure why. Dreaming of a better life one day - LOL~

Hmmm...I don't consider myself reformed. Tho' to be honest, I'm not sure what the other alternatives are. :001_smile: I tend to think much of the disagreements stem from man's inability to perfectly express God's words to each other. I've heard people argue over semantics when they were basically arguing for the same thing. I like the verse that assures me that we don't have to say to each other, "Know the Lord," because He is our teacher. But, maybe I do get what you're saying here. It's not fair that *my* 4yo DD lives in a loving family, who values her, and who derives joy from her very presence - while other 4yo little girls are abused, or molested, or abandoned, or stolen to endure a living hell. I think about this every day when I watch her play, and every night while I watch her sleep. And, I pray for all the children and the oppressed who are stuck in an existence that really isn't fair. (ETA: I suppose that God had to have had foreknowledge of that existence - the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. Though, I am still in limbo as to whether God planned it that way, or simply knows how to bring good out of it because of His omnisicience.) Just last night (before reading this am) I mentioned to my DH that I will never understand or like this aspect of God. I can't understand how He just watches it, just allows it to happen. But, I guess that - what I see as God &/or this world being "unfair" - is what you are calling "sovereignty"? I never associated "sovereignty" with that, but with God's right and ability to interfere whenever and however and in whatever He wants. So, I will keep your tho'ts in mind in the future. btw - I do think that just as my children don't always like or understand my decisions, and yet can love me and obey me in faith, so I can honestly express my doubts and concerns to/about God about things I don't understand or like, and still be in a loving relationship with Him. And, I do think there will always be things that we won't understand - otherwise, it wouldn't be called "faith".

Regarding the 2nd paragraph, yes! I know that while my dh appreciates a clean house more than a messy house, he *doesn't* expect it to be immaculately clean. (Thank goodness!) The one thing I think I do that really irritates him is "cook and clean and care about minutiae of home life and expect his gratitude for it". It reminds of him of his mother! However, please explain more about being "my own husband's lead". I've not heard that expression before. I listened recently to SWB's CD about "Educating Ourselves" (which seems to have many of the same tho'ts that Colleen mentioned). The same week, a friend said something along the lines of a spouse will treat you as badly as you let them. Now, my friend is quite a bit more....brash?...than I am. But, I finally decided to take my dh's advice and just *ask* him, "Will you please...?" Yes, it still makes me mad that I have to ask. But, I've been pleasantly surprised that he will actually help me cheerfully if I just ask! I'm not sure if that's related, or not. Thanks!

Great to know! Thanks,

I'm planning on about 3 hours 20 minutes of work in "Logic" each week, to allow for some other things. That will (just barely!) get us a credit. But I'm not sure how soon that will allow us to finish the first book. The exercises do not look overwhelmingly long, but I know from trying Intro to Logic that I am not a good judge of anything related to Logic - LOL! Thanks!

I completely agree with needing samples that sound like something a child would actually produce, and needing rubrics. (I really like Momof7's ideas of having separate rubrics for content and mechanics). The other thing that would be a real winner for me is having the instruction addressed directly to the student. Book or CD or DVD - I don't care. But, I think I can count on one finger the number of times I've made it through an explanation without. being. interrupted. This leads to A LOT of confusion. Though my children are really trying to please me, sometimes things must get jumbled in translation. I often hear, "But, I thought you said..." or "I'm just trying to follow what you said...", so if I could eliminate the need for me to be the conduit of the instruction, that would eliminate much angst in my household. =) Thanks!

Thanks, Beth, for all your help! This is definitely something for me to consider...

Thanks, Beth!

My boys are past their Magic Tree House days, and dd is still too young, and I really wasn't that concerned with the grammar presented in the books, just glad my boys had *something* they liked to read. So...I may be way off base, but maybe the sentence without a subject didn't *need* a subject because the subject was already understood by the reader. If so, it's not technically a sentence fragment, but an elliptical sentence (per R&S-8). Even Tolkien and the great writers include elliptical sentences in their works, as they sound more natural. Or, less like a Dick and Jane reader, if that makes sense. Now, in expository and formal writing, you are correct. I never accept elliptical sentences in my dc's reports. But, MTH is fiction, and fiction does have different rules & standards. Now I *do* wish our music minister would stop saying, "Me and (insert name)..." every week - LOL!

I completely agree that 95% of the time, the text is almost exactly the same. IMO what really makes the red one more difficult to use for outlining (especially if you're using outlining to teach writing structure) is that the information from the sidebar-timeline (in the white) is just sort of added pell-mell into the middle of the "essays" in the red book. So, if you (the proverbial "you", not "you" personally - LOL) want to use the red book for outlining, you can. But, to make it easier on your dc, you will want to be proactive in helping dc recognize which sentences mar the unity of the paragraphs - at least at first. It's been a couple of years, but I remember penciling out 2-3 sentences in a paragraph which read something like, "In 2500 bc, this happened. Then, in 2000 bc, that happenend. In 1000 bc, the other thing occurred." I got to a point that it was just easier to use the white book for outlining, and the red book for the "Key Dates" box (& better pictures!). But, I suppose as a curriculum recommendation that's rather absurd! LOL as an aside: What I do find especially frustrating with the white book is that so many interesting things are mentioned *only* in the timeline, and the timeline often runs several pages ahead of the corresponding essay. So, if you're not already familiar with who Solon is, for instance, the reference in the timeline that he became the archon of Athens in a certain year just doesn't seem very significant. At least I know *my* 6th grader won't have any bells or whistles going off saying, "Oh, yeah, I see how the the big picture of the world is fitting together now," when he gets there - LOL!

Any reviews of Streams of Civ &/or Hewitt's Honors Ancient History syllabus?... The other night I stumbled to the old board, where someone had recommended Hewitt Homeschooling's Ancient History syllabus. It looks like exactly what I'm trying to plan - a "basic text" with "added library sources, more extensive reading, research, and writing" and "primary-source materials." But, their "basic text" is Streams of Civilization. So far, I haven't found a single positive review of "Streams" on the board! Could that be the reason no one here recommends the syllabus, when it sounds so much like what so many of us try to put together on our own? (It's only $7.00!!!) Has anyone followed this syllabus? Did you like it? Love it? Did you hate "Streams"? Could you modify the syllabus to work with another text, or is it very dependent on "Streams"? Thanks! (yes, I wish I could post this anonymously! history is just going to kill me this year!!!)

You can outline from SOTW. You just need to choose a 4-6 paragraph portion that addresses one topic. I haven't seen the Oxford First Ancient History. I'm afraid to look - LOL! But, I bet it would work as well.