I tend to agree with this as well, especially in light of the OP. If your daughter is already doing single digit multiplication going to Alpha may seem like a bit of a put down. Beta may be the better fit if you go with MUS. Another big consideration is that MUS is mastery approach which has its pluses and minuses. Although all three of our children currently use MUS and we generally like it, I'm beginning to question if it is best choice for our middle dd7. She is forgetting some math facts including single digit multiplication. So we took at break from it and are focusing on drills. Some children learn better with a spiral approach and continual review. For that reason I am considering giving CLE a try with her and seeing how it goes. Here is a great thread comparing spiral vs. mastery approaches. Some families use both depending on their child's learning style: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345562

Thanks 3andme, I look forward to hearing more about your experiences once you use 900. I am also curious if folks could skip 800 and move to this? The reason is that CLE's sequence put students on grade in Algebra 1 in 9th grade. This limits there ability to take Calculus before college.

Do others skip 800 and move directly into Algebra from 700? One of my concerns with CLE's sequence is that it adds in this consumer math and an extra year, placing students in Algebra 1 in 9th grade. This sequence can limit a HS students ability to take Calculus before college.

I say go with your gut after reviewing the various options. You know what will work best for your son. The fact that you are a bit torn right now speaks to your desire for his best. I'm sure you'll find something which works well for the both of you.

I can totally relate to this. My ds is the same way - eager to do math and to please. What more could a teacher ask for from a young student? That's also why I have looked at so many offerings for both Pre-A and Algebra. I've come to the conclusion that there are at least several good curricula paths I could take with him which he would do well with. I've also concluded that AoPS will not be a good primary currilcum for him based on his learning style. Those discoveries helped narrow the field for me and come to a decision. The fact that there are other good choices makes it nice in case something selected just doesn't work for whatever reason.

Oh nooo!!! I think at times chosing curriculum can be more challenging than actually using it. :tongue_smilie: You are like me in that I love to research things which can at times lead to frustration or analysis paralysis if a decision isn't made. Since you have already looked at so many why not just try one or more you like with your son? Then if that doesn't work go back to the drawing board. I think its good to remember there is no perfect curriculum, just some which works better for the child and parent combo than others.

Glad to hear it Dassah. Its always a good feeling once a decision is made after researching the various options. I look forward to hearing how it goes for your family.

They have Algebra 1 through Trig on their site now! It will be interesting to hear feedback on these new courses.

Have any of you tried the new CLE Algebra with your kids? I am looking into Algebra 1 programs now after finishing up Pre-A. Thanks,

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I haven't done it yet, but plan to do the same. I know many on the board have. Algebra is so fundamental to everything else which follows including the sciences that I think it is worthy of extra time, especially when needed. Some use gentler Algebra 1 programs as bridges to secondary math such as TT or MUS, then follow with more challenging curriclum such as Foerster, Dolciani, AoPS, etc... I'm not sure where Saxon fits on the scale of challenge/difficulty/rigor. However many have found what works great with one child is not the best approach for all. So I recommend being willing to at least consider others options besides Saxon. One friend of ours gave her daughter several different curricula to review and sample. She just so happened to pick Saxon. But her mother *never* would have selected Saxon for her.

This is great to hear! Interesting idea supplimenting with LOF. We actually did that with Zeta and it seemed to work out pretty well. I have heard a few others on here who have used MUS Algebra say it was too light as a standalone for Algebra. 8Fill mentioned this. Maybe she can comment as to why. I think it had to do with scope. I seem to recall she used the MUS Algebra as a Pre-A for her kids before going into more rigorous Algebra such as Foersters, Dolciani, etc... I found the quote:

Our oldest ds is doing Pre-A right now and the honors Qs are built into the student workbook. So there is nothing additional to buy/add. http://store.mathusee.com/catalog/secondary-math/prealgebra/prealgebra.html

Hi Elizabeth, We actually use the Robinson approach in a modified fashion. And we like the books. However we haven't needed to buy any of them since 90%+ are available for free for download on the internet now. We use eReaders and our children have no problems reading them. They really enjoy the books. My son, for example, asks if he can read other books from the Rover Boys series which he loves. Here is a listing: http://homeschoolfreestuff.wordpress.com/books-for-reading/robinson-booklist/ Although I generally like his idea of spending more time on the three Rs, I also like including science. This may be in part due to my own upbringing and how I found having HS Physics very beneficial once I had to take it at the college level. Conversly not having any exposure to Chemistry made it a very difficult subject to do well in simply because I had no frame of reference. In hindsight it would have been much better to have as a minimum a knowledge of the elements and other basics. Then I could focus more time on learning all the other aspects of a very rigorous Chem course. This turned out to be one of my most difficult classes in college at both the undergraduate (life science) and graduate level (IT). So I want our kids to have as a minimum exposure to these two sciences.

If you do more searches here on MUS you'll notice parents who will sometimes suppliment with Sigapore CWP, MM, etc... We use MUS with all three and only recently purchased the Pre-A set with honors which looks interesting. Our oldest looked at his workbook and said 'what are these?' :D Since we don't have enough experience with the honors Qs yet I can't really offer a review of them. But I will say that it is a nice addition to add rigor and challenge. And yes, the lectures are very helpful, yet not as long winded like some of the other DVD programs.

Wow, what a great summary on best math teaching practices. The goal of building confidence while providing just right challenges is really what its all about. If a child becomes overwlemed their confidence goes into the toilet, even if they are bright. While on the other hand if they are bored their interests wane, with untapped potential somewhat wasted. Confidence is especially critical. If there is none then its time to stop and work on building it back up again. Unfortunately in public school some kids who have great potential get labeled as slow simply because they lost confidence at some point and gave up. Since the brain develops in spurts vs. a straight line some children are simply at a lull points before their next spurt. Einstein was labeled as slow by many of his teachers. Imagine if he had given up on his education, research and discoveries. I distinctly remember my best math teachers managing to pull this off with 20+ kids. That's what I want to strive for with each of our three unique children. I love how you have captured this in your tailored approach with both your children.

Awesome Post Ruth! Thanks for encouraging all of us who may choose a different path. This is along my same line of thinking for our kids.

While I think its good to want to teach children good problem solving skills AoPS isn't the only game in town. I admit to getting caught up in all the hype myself initially, only to realize that it most likely won't be a good fit for our kiddos. Think about all the STEM students that went before AoPS and did great as well as the ones today choosing other programs. The discovery approach just doesn't fit every child or the way they learn best, even if mathematically inclined. That said I have asked our library to order it (Pre-A) and I'll possibly use it for supplimental questions. But I will most likely never use it as a full program. Look into Foerster, Dolciani, Jacobs, Kinetic Books, etc... These should be more than sufficient as college prep curriculum.

Yes, thanks, that's good to know and very helpful. I didn't realize the classes could that flexible. If our kids take one of his classes it would be their first actually class taught by an instructor. So I want to make sure they are prepared and not blown away by Derek's classes. Of course they will need to get used to this style of classroom for their future. I'm just not sure at what age or maturity level they will need to be to dive right in like your ds. I have heard of younger students taking his classes. However as you said your ds is an exceptional student. I've also heard of very young children doing AoPS and thriving. But that isn't at all the norm. I guess the maturity level needed will vary with each child in terms of their age and development.

I did and I'm thinking about KineticBooks as well. I checked out some Thinkwell video samples and geesh does that instructor's presentation bug me. Maybe kids would like it though, kinda like Bill Nye the Science guy. :tongue_smilie:

We purchased Lial's Pre-A workbook, solution manual and DVDs written for the book. I would not recommend the DVDs as they seemed really boring. I'll most likely sell them. We don't really like the text layout and found it too visually busy/distracting, though some seem to like it. Also consider KineticBooks Algebra which has a number of good reviews. Some prefer it over VideoText. Most reviews seem positive. For VideoText I've found very mixed reviews with a lot of it which goes back up for sale on the boards here. ChalkDust also has mixed reviews with lectures sometimes referred to as long winded. Some kids seem to hate it. MUS we are currently using, just started Pre-A. Its very straight forward with good DVD instruction. Text is non-clustered. The instructor is good at breaking down complex subjects, making them easier to understand. Lectures are short and to the point. It has honors Qs as you mentioned. Easy to accelerate and/or suppliment with other materials. CLE now has Algebra and Geometry. This curriclum is generally highly regarded. However not much is available in terms of reviews yet since these are newer releases from them. Derek Owens online classes also rate highly and are considered on the rigorous side. As with all programs/curriculum fit varies with each child.

I've heard that Derek Owens courses are somewhat fast paced as well as the fact that he talks fast. I've reviewed his videos on youtube, but would like hear people's experience with his classes. How would you rate the difficulty level of his Algebra 1 class for example for younger students? I know he requires them to take notes and do homework. Does it seem like a moderate amount of homework, like an hour a day or so? I also wonder how he handles students who struggle more vs. those who simply get it right away? I can imagine he gets a wide range of ages and abilities, especially for Algebra 1. Thanks,

I've heard that Derek Owens courses are somewhat fast paced as well as the fact that he talks fast. How would you rate the difficulty level of his Algebra 1 class for younger students? I know he requires them to take notes and do homework. Does it seem like a moderate amount of homework, like an hour a day or so? I also wonder how he handles students who struggle more vs. those who simply get it right away? I can imagine he gets a wide range of ages and abilities, especially for Algebra 1. Maybe I should ask this as a separate thread. Hmm...

I am also looking at various options. Some I am consideing are: Foerster's combined with Math w/o Borders instruction. Gets favorable review Derek Owen's online class - many parents/students like his classes Kinetic Books - looks interesting with good reviews as well The other thing to consider is CLE Algebra 1. Although there are no videos which I am aware of for it, CLE is generally regarded good for independent learning. That combined with Khan academy may be a good alternative. I may also use what is considered as light Algebra 1 (e.g. TT, MUS) as a bridge from Pre-A to more rigorous programs. I don't mind spending extra time with Algebra since its understanding will lay a good foundation for other secondary math courses to follow.