Angie, it sounds like KB really was a hit with your family. How did you handle the lack of a solutions manual? Did you figure out the answers that your kiddos got wrong and walk them through step by step? Or was having the odd answers enough for them to pretty much figure things out on their own?

Beth, congrats on taking the plunge! I think the most important part is that your kids are really enjoying it which means they will be more engaged with their math. ;) I'm also a bit confused. Did you order the homeschool or standard edition? Based on my discussion with tech support they said the homeschool edition comes with 'all' the answers to the end of unit exercises. Do you find this to be the case? Thanks for the additional info.

Thanks for sharing your experience TheApprentice. I am leaning toward giving Derek Owens a try.

Thanks for the update Kris! You brought up a good question and interesting point. For me, I not only like to have *all* the answers, but know what our kids got wrong. I think that is an important part of the learning process, especially if one is aiming for mastery vs. simply passing. I've typically only heard good things about KineticBooks. So I don't mind hearing some of the cons as I am considering it as well. With KB there is no solutions manual and only the answers to every other problem on their tests. So I also see that as a con. Though it does seem to have a great appeal in terms of its presentation. And it is also known to be on the more rigorous side which is good. While AoPS sounds great for some I really don't think it would be the best fit for my wife who not a mathy person or my son. I don't think the discovery approach would best suit his learning style.

Does anyone know if any part of Rainbow Science reusable for other children who might follow? Or do you pretty much need to a new kit for each child e.g. completely consumable? Thanks,

This sounds good Kara. I think CLE will be a fine place for your son this year. :) Congrats on getting up the courage to homeschooling with him, especially on such short notice! BTW, this board is a great resource with wonderful people who have helped me out. Hopefully you will find that as well. Another helpful thing is to find a local support group if you have one in your area. All the best to you and your family this school year!

Yes, we are in the same boat. While I was strong in math it was not my wife's best subject. And she homeschools during the day while I am at work. So she wants something that provides as much instruction and independent learning as possible. I think CLE is a good fit in this way. The others which I mentioned are also better for more independent learning. For CLE Math in Junior High you have Math 700 & 800 which are both Pre-Algebra with additional areas included such as personal finances, balancing a checkbook, etc... Most families I know who use CLE jump off at this point - Junior High. Once at the High School level CLE completely changes and is no longer considered as strong of a program. Basically beyond CLE 800 it becomes Alpha Omega Lifepac which isn't reviewed as well especially for Secondary Math. Whereas 800 and below is Sunrise Math created by a different group entirely. The main reason I bring this up is that I think you are considering a program which you might follow through the HS years. Just be forewarned that they are not the same beyond this point. The one caveat to this is that CLE has been working on a 'Sunrise' version of Algebra. You can read more about it in a thread I posted here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=344661 Honestly there are so many other very good Algebra programs already available which are more of a known commodity I will use those with my oldest son. But once my girls are ready for Algebra I may take another look at CLE. However at this level of secondary math I am also liking the idea of having more instruction. That is why I am leaning toward the others. Derek Owens is a good option for Pre-Algebra and beyond if you haven't seen his classes yet. You can check them out here including the video lectures: http://www.lucideducation.com/?p=Prealgebra.php Every parent who has used his courses has said very positive things about them.

Interesting, I've heard of people mapping Khan lectures with certain books. But I haven't seen those mappings. And since DM is non-traditional in both sequence and scope it may be a bit more difficult. With Foerster and Math without Borders you also can ask the teacher questions. That can come in handy at times. So you do get a bit more than just the lectures. Have you considered Derek Owens? His courses are highly recommended as well.

Beth, I put in a help ticket to KineticBooks regarding obtaining a solutions guide. Here was their response which I just received: "The homeschool products include answers to all the end of unit problems but not the solutions. If a student needs help understanding a problem, they are referred to the portion of the text where they first learned the concept. I will pass on your request for solution guides for homeschoolers. We have had several requests for these and I can definitely see the value." I am not quite sure what she meant by including 'all the answers' to the end of the unit problems. Maybe that does not include the more cumulative tests. Either way I think the more homeschoolers that ask for this the greater the chances are of seeing something like it in the future. :D

I would say it really depends on the child and parents. What did your ds use for Pre-Algebra and did he like it and do pretty well? I'm seriously considering Foerster combined with Math without Borders lectures for my son after he finishes Pre-Algebra. With Foerster would you lecture, outsource or? I'm also considering a number of others as well including KineticBooks and TabletClass. I want to let him try these for himself to see what he thinks. Most programs offer free trials and samples. You may want to show him both you are considering.

Hi Beth, no I haven't tried it yet. However your experience is encouraging. It sounds like both of your kids really like it. :001_smile: Have you found not having a solutions manual to be a problem for you so far? I plan to do several free trails soon (TabletClass, KineticBooks & Derek Owens) and see how my son likes them. He has a little more to finish with MUS first. KineticBooks sounds intriguing though my wife is concerned with the lack of a solutions manual. The free trial will definately help in a making a decision. The other thing I like about Derek Owens and TabletClass is the direct customer support you get from the developer of the curriculum. KB is more widely used and there are a number of designers and developers of the program. I've found their support somewhat different after contacting all three. You definately get a more personalized response from the other two when asking questions about their programs. That was just my observation.

Thanks Country Girl. I look forward to hearing how your ds11 like Physical Science since I am looking at Derek Owens' science courses as well.

Hi Kara, Welcome to the boards. We use CLE Math for the Primary grades (1st-6th) with our younger children and are very happy with the quality of the program. It is good for mostly independant learning. It seems to be regarded as a very solid program which is 'spiral' based vs. a 'mastery' approach. However we did use Math-U-See before which is mastery based. We switched because our younger children weren't retaining as much. We also found that they like CLE more. Lifepac is Alpha Omega which I am not as familiar with nor does it come up as much. Here is one review I found with different parents' experiences: http://www.homeschoolmath.net/curriculum_reviews/alpha_omega.php When speaking of Math most consider it separately even for those who use all inclusive programs such as Sonlight/Alpha Omega. The reason for this is that evey child is different and while one may thrive with CLE or Lifepac another may do much better with Singapore, Math Mammoth, Math-U-See, Saxon, AoPS, etc... In addition children are at different levels developmentally for their age. While some are ready to start Algebra in the 6th grade others may wait until 9th or 10th. Consequently most parents tend to focus on the next level such as learning Algebra or Pre-Algebra this year. Then they explore the various options which include things like level of rigor, style of instruction (more parent directed vs. independant), computer based, video lectures or not, spiral vs. mastery approach, etc... Children typically respond better to one approach over another. Otherwise it can be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole which becomes frustrating for all parties involved. That being the case you may want to show him a few programs and see how he likes them. Most Math programs have free trials and samples for this very reason. If your son follows most public schools he is probably going to be in Pre-Algebra or Algebra for his 8th grade year. That is really where I would start. Actually I am researching that for my son this year as well. We are already using Math-U-See (MUS) Pre-Algebra. However I'm looking for something a little more challenging for him because I think he is ready for it. So we are looking into these programs which come highly recommended: Kinetic Books, Derek Owens, TabletClass. Of course there are many more options. But in doing the research these seem like a good fit for our ds11. I hope this helps some.

Hi All, I was wondering if anyone has tried Derek Owens' Pre-Algebra with younger kids? The reason I ask is that this would be the first 'class-like' setting for our homeschooled ds11. The whole idea of taking notes and following a more traditional class sounds like it would be a challenge for him. However I am thinking it possibly be a just right challenge which would help him grow. The other programs we're looking at are KineticBooks and TabletClass. We're going through MUS Pre-Algebra right now. At this point I think its time for something a bit more rigorous to go along with it as we prepare for Algebra 1. Anyway I have heard good things about all these programs. However Derek Owens sounds intriguing with the note taking aspect. While this is a great skill to develop I'm just not sure this is the best time for it.

Thanks for this information 3andme! I just emailed Derek Owens about this and in fact he does offer a discounted version if you do all the grading yourself. He also mentioned he is setting something up for this purpose on his Lucid site which is still in the works. However he already offers Pre-Algebra from there which I am seriously considering as we finish up with MUS. http://www.lucideducation.com/?p=Prealgebra.php

It looks like they are developing Geometry also. I would hope over time they continue to develop new courses including Pre-Calculus and Calculus. We also have the concern about not having a solutions guide for the tests. Although I did well in math while in school, it is not my wife's strong area. She would need to walk through questions missed during the day when not explained. Of course I could help after work. But still I'm not sure how well that would work for us. I don't know why they don't offer a solutions manual for Homeschool families. We're also considering TabletClass and Derek Owens for these reasons. While no program is perfect KineticBooks does seem to offer a lot.

Thanks for posting. This program looks very promising! One of the things I cannot determine so far is the level of rigor, especially compared to other programs such as KineticBooks, AOPS, Math without Borders/Foerster, etc... I know the format is somewhat different. But I am not so concerned with that as I am with level of difficulty and of course longer term results. It seems like there is very little review of this program on the web. The few I have seen here seem favorable. However there is just not much data about it beyond a several 'works great for us' kinds of posts. And unfortunately those can be found with every program from TT to AOPS. :001_huh: Thanks for any additional input you can provide regarding perceived rigor compared to other programs more are familiar with. Also have you found this to be more spiral or mastery based?

This looks very intriuging indeed. So much so that I emailed the owner and asked about plans for future coursework development for Pre-Calculus and Calculus. He said that he is currently working on Pre-Calculus and targeting sometime next year for it. The only thing I cannot determine so far is the level of rigor it has, especially compared to other programs such as KineticBooks, AOPS, Math without Borders/Foerster, etc... I know the format is somewhat different. But I am not so concerned with that as I am with level of difficulty and of course longer term results. It seems like there is very little review of this program on the web. The few I have seen here seem favorable. However there is just not much data about it beyond a several 'works great for us' kinds of posts. And unfortunately those can be found with every program from TT to AOPS. :001_huh: Thanks for any additional input you can provide regarding perceived rigor compared to other programs more are familiar with. Also have you found this to be more spiral or mastery based?

I would definately consider MUS Algebra for a lighter intro to Algebra. A number of others including 8Fill have done this, then gone on to Foerster or something else more difficult. Our ds10 is going through MUS Pre-A and seems to like it. The instructor does a great job at taking complex concepts and breaking them down into bite sized chunks kids can understand. I am also looking at Teaching Textbooks among other easier Algebra courses and then doing a more rigorous Algebra program for 8th grade depending on how he does. There is nothing wrong with spending a little more time with Algebra, especially since its the basis for other secondary math to come. My 2c,

Yes, I agree with this. My son is in it right now and it is definately not filler. He has gone through the entire elementary series (thru Zeta) and this really does cover new areas. Keep in mind that because MUS is a mastery program they don't spend a lot of time on material already covered in previous books. Take look at the scope and sequence below. Would you really want to skip these topics before moving into Algebra? LESSON 1 Negative Numbers, Addition LESSON 2 Negative Numbers, Subtraction LESSON 3 Negative Numbers, Multiplication LESSON 4 Negative Numbers, Division LESSON 5 Exponents LESSON 6 Place Value LESSON 7 Negative Numbers with Exponents LESSON 8 Roots and Radicals LESSON 9 Solve for an Unknown LESSON 10 Pythagorean Theorem LESSON 11 Associative and Commutative Property LESSON 12 Distributive Property LESSON 13 Solve for an Unknown LESSON 14 Solve for an Unknown LESSON 15 Surface Area of Solids LESSON 16 Transform Celsius to Fahrenheit LESSON 17 Transform Fahrenheit to Celsius LESSON 18 Absolute Value LESSON 19 Ratio and Proportion LESSON 20 Similar Polygons LESSON 21 Least Common Multiple LESSON 22 Greatest Common Factor LESSON 23 Polynomials, Addition LESSON 24 Volume of a Cylinder LESSON 25 Polynomials, Multiplication LESSON 26 Adding and Subtracting Time LESSON 27 Volume of a Pyramid and a Cone LESSON 28 Military Time, Addition and Subtraction LESSON 29 Measurement, Addition and Subtraction LESSON 30 Irrational Numbers

Thanks for this review as I am also considering Kinetic Books for my son. However I am looking at it for Algebra 1. Any reason you chose Jacobs rather than simply continuing with KB for Algebra 1?

I am considering CLE for our middle daughter because of its spiral approach. However I concerned about following it too far as beyond 600 it seems to go into consumer math and drags things out (700, 800) until getting to Algebra (900) in the 9th grade. It seems like 600 or 700 may be a good jumping off point to another secondary math program. If 700 is enough review and Pre-A then it may be worth doing before switching to Algebra 1. Or maybe just skip 800 and go to CLE's new Algebra 1 (900).

Thanks for your input SuperDad.

Bump

I really like Khan and have used it with my son for introducing new concepts like negative numbers. I am wondering thought if anyone here has mapped the lectures to a math text yet? For example Algebra 1 Jacobs, Foerster, Dolciani, Lial, etc... For me this would be ideal as I would like to use it to suppliment some really good texts vs. exclusively without any text at all. I think I heard someone on the HS forum talking about doing such a mapping for Algebra. But I don't know if he ever did it. An interesting point regarding supplimemtal mapping is that Khan is already creating videos to suppliment Singapore Math: