Yes, I agree with abrightmom and boscopup's comments. We use CLE, own MM and have also used MUS. We actually started with MUS but our girls weren't retaining what they were learning. During that time we purchased a full set of the MM elementary years. But it was still too mastery based. So we looked for more of a spiral approach and went with CLE. This fits their learning style much more as it allows then to work on a concept, then come back to it. While at the same time CLE also introduces advanced concepts earlier on. I think if we have trouble in an area we could use MM to suppliment targeted topics. Though we haven't needed that yet. Instead we're using other supplimentals like Hands-on-Equations (HoE) and Dreambox. Don't get too hung up on the grade level as childrens' brains develop in spurts vs. a straight line. Slow down where the child needs more practice and speed where things are grasped easily. Be consistent with daily math time and the progress will come. The one thing that helped us accelerate math for ds11 last year was to give him daily assignments vs. simply daily time to work on math. So if he finished his assignments a bit early he had more playtime. If however it took longer he put in the extra time to get it done, like his other subjects really. You'll have to gage the child's ability to determining what their pace should be: 1, 1.5, or 2 lessons per day.

This sounds like the best way to go. Have her give them a try. Also don't forget about the video lessons that go along with AoPS as well here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Videos/index.php?type=prealgebra I think these are supposed to be watched after trying the first challenge problem of the chapter.

I think the why not was the question 8Fill and I were filling in with some details based on the type of curriculum AoPS is. Its simply not for everyone for a number of reasons which upon a initial glance may not be noticeable. However after reviewing the content, approach and level of difficulty if the OP thinks her daughter is up for it and doesn't mind it may be fine. But based on her post it didn't sounds like that. She could always give it a try and see of course. You never know...

Do you mean AoPS as in Art of Problem Solving vs AoP? If so AoPS is known to be better suited for children who really enjoy wrestling with math problems. Its discovery approach lends itself toward that. It is one of the most rigorous programs available and demanding on the student. There are so many other Pre-Algebra options out there which may be a better fit. I would consider some of the others first, especially based on the the fact that she doesn't really enjoy math right now. Then let her demo them and participate in the process before committing to something she may not even like at all. This may help her enjoy math a bit more. Here are just a few more to explore: Derek Owens TabletClass KineticBooks Horizons MUS Lials with Jann in Texas We are using TabletClass right now and highly recommend it. But we also own and have used MUS. We also have Lials, though prefer the others two more. Derek Owens always gets great reviews for his classes as does Jann in Texas. Another thing to consider is that Pre-A is simply a bridge from Primary to Secondary Math. So its good to have an idea of where you are going with Algebra and beyond. With some of these programs there are additional follow on courses available, while others will simply be a stepping stone to an entirely different program.

Glad to hear it BlueTaelon. That's the main reason I posted the review since I hadn't even heard about it until reading a thread on the HS forum. After trying it I thought it was too good to be mentioned so rarely. ;)

We focus on plenty of reading time at this age along with math (CLE 100) and writing/grammar (FLL/Phonics Pathways) - the three Rs.;) Science and History are group lessons for all ages (6-11). Along with this we do memory work of some poetry and the Bible. CLE is a great spiral program which both of our girls do well in. We started them in MUS, but the mastery approach was not the best fit for them. Though ds11 seemed to thrive with it.

Here's another positive review of TabletClass from Stacy B after her son took three of their courses (Pre-A thru Geometry): http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?p=4387988#post4387988

Another great success story using TabletClass! Thank you Stacy. Beck inspired me to give a try. We have been using the Pre-Algebra course and my son really likes it. Plus John Zimmerman is a great help when needed. You can see my review of the Pre-Algebra class here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=429333&highlight=Tabletclass

You know, it really depends on the child we've found. We have used both, actually just finished MUS from Primer thru Pre-A with ds11. He did fine with it and seemed to thrive on its mastery approach. However for our daughters it was just the opposite. They do much better with CLE and it spiral approach. They were forgetting too much with MUS. I think they needed more variety and coming back to concepts over time which CLE does very well. CLE also introduces more advanced concepts earlier on and gradually brings them in. In that sense we like it better, for them. One problem with MUS is that its scope and sequence is so different from other programs that its hard to synch up when switching. We went back a bit after switching to CLE just to catch areas not yet covered in MUS. For ds11 Pre-A was a good place to jump off to another curriculum, in this case TabletClass Pre-A. He is doing fine in the class and MUS was all he had ever used, along with supplimentals. BTW, we are using CLE 100 for our 1st grader and its going really well. We did however start her last year in MUS Primer before switching to CLE. That might be a good supplimental to CLE 100. You could slow down CLE 100 and combine with MUS Primer.

Catherine, AngieW in Texas used it with her two daughters and they seemed to really like it, in spite of the lack of a solutions manual or answer to all the questions. For a number of us who tried it recently that was a problem. You can see these threads discussing it: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=416209&highlight=kinetic&page=2 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=421146&highlight=kinetic The HS version gives you a pacing guide and the homework assignments. Maybe that is part of what the course manager also provides? I know there are certain things they will only provide to schools though. And yes, customer support is not the greatest or most knowledgeable regarding their own products.:rolleyes: Its enough to make you wonder how much help they could actually provide if you have a problem while in the program.

Is Zaccaro's Real World Algebra even considered a complete stand alone Algebra 1 text? I'm curious because I'm planning to use it as a supplemental to a more traditional Algebra 1 program. I'm not sure its scope and sequence would be enough to use alone however. On the other hand I think LOF can be considered stand alone from Algebra on. For those who use both LOF and Zaccaro's RWA I would be interested to hear of the differences in terms of scope, challenge, style, etc...?

After using Scratch and his VB course this should be a pretty natural progression toward learning Java. My son started with Game Maker Studio which is similar to Scratch and Alice, just offering a bit more features. But its similar in the way it presents logical choices and building blocks for programming games. My younger daughter also used Scratch which was a bit easier for her to pick up right away. Although there are many Beginning Java books already out there, this approach is unique in that it presents topics in very pratical, visual, hands-on, fun ways which kids can understand much quicker IMO. Of course there is a place for theory and a good Java reference book is handy to have around when needed. But so much is available for free online now that most questions and topics which come up can easily be googled at this stage. I have quite a few expensive Java books collecting dust on the shelf. Even at work most SW engineers I work with use the internet much more now than books from a bookstore. One PhD I worked with called it 'asking Dr. Google.' :tongue_smilie:

Thanks, this is good to know as both of our daughters are in CLE now. We'll probably go with a different Pre-Algebra though like the one ds11 is using - TabletClass. But I am looking at a good place to jump off CLE for them. I'll take a look at the Pre-A scope in light of CLE before making the leap as you did. I agree that two years is too long for Pre-A. But that's the way they used to approach Math decades ago - no formal Algebra until 9th grade. I remember running into this problem myself while in middle school. They simply reviewed arithmetic for two years and I was extremely 'bored.' :tongue_smilie:

My son has now finished all 17 lessons in the Java for Absolute Beginners tutorials. They were short, to the point and very hands on which appeals to his learning style. He is really excited to start the next series: . In researching this a bit more I found a fantastic free Java based Game Making IDE called Greenfoot. It’s a powerful tool for both teaching programming fundamentals and making some cool games. It's used by quite a few college and university CS departments in teaching programming. I plan on using this next: http://www.greenfoot.org/overview http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/mik/category/joy-of-code/page/2/

:lol: Haha, Yeah, I thought the same thing for my son. And he really has does enjoy following the lessons. I do think that the voice matters with some of these tutorials.

Hi All, I found a great series of tutorials which ds11 started going through recently. Within 2 days he has written two of his first Java programs. This included installing the latest Java Development Kit (JDK) and an Integrated Development Environment (IDE) which is Netbeans in this case, all free of course. Although I am a software engineer I sometimes find it best to let others teach him and this has definately worked well with these instructional videos. Once a student goes through the basics they are ready to start creating their first games in Java. So that's next and he is really excited.:D Anyway here is the link to the tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheJavaHub When you are ready to give it a go start here with Java for the Absolute Beginner: Its very well put together and a bit hard to believe its all free. I hope you enjoy them as we did. Derek

I received further clarification on the internet connectivity question from the author, John Zimmerman. Here is his response: Thanks for asking me for additional information on these questions. With respect to this one, yes TabletClass is an online application so a member needs to have a good stable connection to the internet. All the best, John

Catherine, TabletClass was designed to be downloadable to Tablets, hence the name. So you could download the lessons to watch at another time offline on a computer or smaller device. I will include a section from the user's guide describing this: Many parents and students have very tough and demanding schedules, so the ability to download math lessons and learn anywhere is a great benefit for TabletClass members. All lesson videos can be downloaded to mobile devices that play a .m4v video. TabletClass videos are specifically designed to be viewed on smaller devices with sharp and clear resolution. Examples of mobile devices that support this file format are iPods, iPhones, Droid cell phone, PSP, Zune and others. -- http://www.tabletclass.com/homeschool/homeschool_guide.pdf Also the chapter review notes, worksheets, tests and keys can all be downloaded as PDFs as well. The one thing I discovered with KineticBooks is that the Homeschool version only comes in a Web Format. You could buy the standard version for offline use. But it doesn't come with the HS pacing guide and possibly other things. That's just something to consider when thinking about offline work with KB. The other major difference for us was that KB does not have a solutions manual of any kind, only the answers to the odd problems. While some of us like KB that became a problem along the way, whereas for others it wasn't as much of an issue. Just something to consider. The good news with KB is that they offer a 30-day money back guarantee if you are not happy with it. So if it doesn't work out you can get a refund within that timeframe.

Yes, I think so. ;) BTW, speaking of marketing you can get a substantial discount on the cost of the program if you demo it first. You will have a period of time to purchase it at the reduced rate of $119/yr, down from $179/yr.

Yes, the way I read those is that TabletClass can help students better understand concepts they may be struggling with in other programs. VideoText, Saxon and ALEKS are also discussed in this way.

No, there is no connection to MUS. I think it may just be a youtube tag or something possibly to compare his lectures with other comparable programs.

Hi Grantmom, Yes, it does seem more challenging overall than MUS Pre-A. Actually KB and Derek Owens did as well. Though I must be fair and say that we didn't finish MUS Pre-A and it does appear to get more challenging in the later parts of the book. And since we already own it we will probably integrate it in, just not use it as the spine. My son is the only one in our family to use MUS exclusively from Primer all the way through Pre-A. I was really looking for the best place to jump off MUS and on to something else for secondary math. And IMO Pre-A is a good place once negative numbers are covered. Honestly, I did not demo Chalkdust. For many of the other Pre-A programs out there like Chalkdust, AoPS, TT, Horizons, Saxon, etc... I read their reviews along with threads discussing known pros/cons to get a feel for best fit. That's how I start with a wider net and then narrow down to a smaller subset for us to test out. I'll take this same approach for Algebra-Calculus.

Hi All, This is just a heads up for those considering various math options. We demo'd several Pre-Algebra programs for ds11. These included Lials, MUS, KineticBooks, Derek Owens and TabletClass. We actually purchased the first two and used MUS for the first ~ 6 chapters. While MUS was well put together I was looking for something a bit more challenging. In demoing the others we ended up liking TabletClass the most. So we purchased it ~ three weeks ago and have been enjoying it. I found it somewhat odd that TabletClass is not mentioned very often. However I did find a recommendation of it on the HS forum here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=412675&highlight=tabletclass Some of the things I really like are: 1. Full lectures with very clear instruction 2. Complete Step by Step solutions explained via video 3. Discusses common mistakes and how to avoid them 4. Great customer service with quick response to any questions

Ok Beck, Based on your review I decided to demo it along with KineticBooks. We ended up actually liking TabletClass more. Where KB was weakest in the lack of a soluitons guide TabletClass was the strongest. The support from the Mr. Zimmerman, the author, along with complete solutions to all the problems is great. He actually walks the students through every problem step by step. Plus the lessons themselves are very well put together and easy to follow. Thanks for recomending this program. I'm also very surprised fewer peoples seem to know about it or have tried it.

Yeah, we came to basically the same conclusion. We liked the program to a point. But it still seems lacking somewhat for HS families. I spoke with customer service and they mentioned quite a few other families have requested a solutions guide as well. But they don't offer one nor do they seem to have plans for releasing it to HS families. While I think they do offer for PS teachers. At the same time we demo'd TabletClass which was recommended on here and liked it more. The support from the Mr. Zimmerman, the author, along with complete solutions to all the problems is great. He actually walks the students through every problem step by step. Plus the lessons themselves are very well put together and easy to follow.