Emily, That is a good question. CC sells both SOTW and VP so I figure they are both excellent. I have always been drawn to VP so that is a definite. We are already doing the SOTW audios in the car so we are already getting the stories. I feel that SOTW does a better job of covering world history as opposed to all Western Civ. And some people feel it is better to have a narrative as the spine rather than a set of cards. I really like the look of the student pages in the activity guides too. I calculated it out last night and if one does one card per week with VP for 32 weeks for 5 years that is 160 weeks. Then if one could cover 2 chapters of SOTW per week that would take 84 weeks. When you combine the two and divide by 6 years it comes out to 40 weeks per year, which is about right. So I would either do one level of SOTW b/w each self-paced or do most all the self-paced and then all the SOTW. My kids are going to do Challenge w/ Omnibus lit in 7th-12th so they'll get their history for dialectic and rhetoric stages that way......This is just for the grammar years.... ANOTHER possibility would be to put SOTW in their personal reading bins in the appropriate grades and not use it together. In the "off" year from VP we could do something from Memoria Press instead. Too many great options out there.... stm4him

The reason we do a block schedule like that is b/c it is easier for me to monitor who is doing what. If we don't get everything done in one hour then we either overlap it into the next hour or we drop it for the next day. Right now I am only teaching a 2nd, 1st, and preschooler (plus I have a 3 year old, 2 year old, and 6 month old). Usually the only one who might overlap into another hour is my preschooler b/c I usually work with him last since it is no big deal for him to skip a day. I got this idea from Leigh Bortins who said in an earlier edition of the Foundations guide that she did an hour block for four subjects: Math, Writing, Reading, and Memory Work. The afternoons they listened to SOTW audios or other audio books or just read what they were interested in, etc. and did hands on things while they listened like building models. So we do one hour for Math, one for Writing (including Grammar), one for Memory Work, and one for Reading. But I couldn't seem to fit in Latin and Spelling so we put that as its own hour. We also have snack time at the end of the second hour. The reading hour we do after lunch and a break. My kids are either taking turns working with me or doing their independent work or we are all working together on something (memorizing, reciting, playing games, etc.). There are lots of parts that are active and we often have to stop to help a little kid with something or clean up something or whatever. So there are plenty of tiny breaks built in. Everyone stays on track and anything they don't finish in an hour (b/c of not focusing or whatever) they have to finish later on their own. But at least I can get all my teaching in for that subject. We used to do more of a meeting with each kid to go over all their stuff for that day. But the problem with that was the other kid was always waiting for me or getting off track and the kid working with me would get tired after awhile or direct teaching. This way they go back and forth all morning either working alone or working with me or working together and that keeps it fun and actually helps with focus most of the time. I have a good idea of what everyone has accomplished at the end of that hour and so I have a good grasp of who did what. Everything gets checked right away and this keeps things orderly. Our afternoon time is together for the older two and myself. It is usually reading something together, doing notebooking or lapbooking, or doing an experiment or hands-on project. Sometimes it is me just reading out loud while they color or play. At 4:30 I spend an hour focusing on my little guys. We do AAR PL1, I read to them for twenty minutes, they do their craft sheets with me and we practice violin (my three and four year old are taking lessons too). They get face time with me and we love it. My house is a mess often, my laundry is behind, but my kids are happy and getting an excellent education. Its what works for us! stm4him

My kids are learning quite a bit of geography from CC Foundations and also will actually draw the whole world in Challenge A in 7th grade........ stm4him

bump Also, thinking maybe I could squeeze in SOTW between VP self-paced levels and stretch it out to 6 years since we go year round. Also, we would do one chapter per day and two chapters per week doing only the review questions and narrations, student pages and test. I would buy extra lit and references for the kids to look at as they want to and I would read to them from those at read aloud time as time allows but mostly my focus would be the retention activities and student pages vs. the hands on things that take longer. They can always do those on their own for fun if they want to....... stm4him

At our house we do a block type schedule so we are all working on the same general subjects at the same time. Granted, I don't have a 7th grader and I expect 7th grade to look very different than the elementary grades and be much more independent, but we work on school four days a week in our house from 8:30-12:30 and from 1:30 to 4:30. Then they have music practice after that. For the most part they do really well with that. One day a week we have a co-op and on that day we are free all afternoon to play with friends when they get home. We also have a day of chores and free time in the morning and lessons in the afternoon with a little playtime in between. We have a busy schedule, but then sometimes we have a week or two off with just some chores and lots of free time and they seem to be doing really well most days. I want studying hard to be a regular part of their almost daily life and for them to learn that studying can be enjoyable too. I try not to compare too much with what ps is doing in this country but to focus on how hard people have studied in times past and throughout the better educated countries of today.... stm4him

Does anyone do these two together somehow? Just curious how that would work.... stm4him

I have been planning to add in SOTW somehow to make our cycle a six year instead of a 5 year since we do CC on a three year cycle and VP on a five year cycle. But I don't know how we would do all four in one year. We have the first set of audio cds and we do listen to those often when we are in the car so I'm thinking by the time we get there the kids will already be familiar with the stories. But I do want to do the activities too when we get there. I have thought that maybe instead of making it the focus of one year we could try to squeeze it in as we go along with VP, but that also sounds like it might complicate things trying to coordinate them, etc. Anyone done SOTW in one year or found a way to squeeze it in with VP and spread it all out to 6 years? Thanks! stm4him

The timeline cards will be different next year as CC is changing their timeline. They are not producing activity books with it or anything like that so far so you could continue doing self-paced just fine with CC. I am planning to as well :-) Some people think of it as a negative that CC will have a new, different timeline than VP, but I actually think I have come to see it as a plus b/c CC organized the VP cards differently and I think that would confuse them when taking VP self-paced classes. Now they can be separate in their heads and give them TWO great timelines in their head to use. I don't know if you are going in order with VP, but we are planning to loosely line it up with CC like this: Cycle 1A: OT/AE Cycle 2A: MARR Cycle 3A: Ex-1815 Cycle 1B: NT/G&R Cycle 2B: SOTW Cycle 3B: 1815-Present (what we are doing this year) So next year we will do OT/AE and the following time we do Cycle 1 we will do G&R. This expands on our history sentences, but b/c we have a timeline in our heads it is ok for us to skip around...... stm4him

I am not sure if I've specifically read about it, but I bet Leigh Bortins did mention it in either The Core or Classical Christian Homeschooling Made Approachable. I know the lists help many kids tremendously in grammar (especially if they do Essentials). And my kids use the timelines in their heads, which you may consider a list. I think lists of facts grouped together have been useful in our home to those that master them....... stm4him

I'm planning to use a curriculum called Character First where the kids memorize a short definition and 5 keys for each trait. There is an animal that goes with it so it brings in nature study and it also has one person from history that displayed that character quality. Unfortunately it is not Christian per se, but it is based on IBLP's Achieving True Success. IBLP has other character books which have the same character qualities but add in Scripture and a Bible character, so I will pull from that book to round it out Biblically. The kids can collect cards with the animal on it and there is a DVD and a CD you can use too. I learned about it from another Christian homeschool mom who blogs...... stm4him

Hi, Angela. Our cycle plan looks like this: 1-6: VP Bible and History 5 years, 1 year of SOTW and What We Believe for Bible (don't ask me how SOTW and WWB will fit in one year, but I'll figure it out when I get there) 7-12: Omnibus (probably secondary readings in Summer) w/ Student of the Word Bible portion or some other inductive Bible study method and Challenge I'm thinking the S-P lessons won't be so bad b/c what I hear a lot is that parents have a hard time getting their kids to only do one or two lessons a day b/c they love it so much. I also hear that there is sooo much good factual info in the course that the reference readings are unnecessary. So, assuming that is true we would only do the read alouds together at night and call it a course. However, I'm a bookaholic so I am collecting all the resource books for that year and all the other living books from their catalog for that history that I can afford for extra optional reading. Science really does take a concentrated amount of time b/c we do the readings, notebooking/lapbooking, and sometimes experiments so getting it out and putting it away can take a little time some days. I once tried doing a little of each each day but there was so much time wasted in transition that it didn't work out. Now I'm thinking maybe I can put on the Bible song when we're about to start and that is how much time they have to get their snack. When the song is done it is time to do Bible. When we finish that up we can move into Science or History. We'll see how that goes....... First I need to pray for some money so we can afford the SP class and the Teacher's manual for Bible..... stm4him

This is our first full year of CC (though of course we are only half way through it). We did half a year when my daughter was 5 and at that time I didn't see the benefit of it. But now I realize that I just didn't see the big picture then. Now that we are back at CC and my daughter is 9 I really wish she was doing this memory work for the second time so it would be easier for her. I know that when we do Essentials the grammar will be very useful and we have run across overlap in our Latin program, which is nice. My oldest is my struggling learner and I don't expect her to memorize everything, but we are trying. I am currently working on a system for her to be able to review by herself the things she doesn't have down. I know when she gets to Challenge anything she retains from Foundations will benefit her. My second child is 7. He has an incredible memory and has memorized everything we've learned so far except for a few of the timeline cards and the math. Next year I think he could definitely try for memory master. My four year old and three year old are definitely picking up quite a bit and I don't worry about what they don't get yet. They are just having fun. I even have to remind my 4 year old not to hold himself to the standard of my 7 year old. But I bet my 4 year old's retention has been close to that of my 9 year old! CC is fun for our whole family. Recently my son quizzed my husband on the capitals and beat him by a mile! It was fun for them to do together and my husband is really impressed. I pull from our CC memory work a lot throughout our day....we run into it a lot actually. I think one of the biggest benefits is that I'm memorizing it so I have that store to pull from when I'm teaching them and they will at least be familiar with it. Also, we are using those Classical Acts and Facts cards and memorizing the phrases from the front of the cards and saying them together. We added in the scientists where they fit. And right now we're learning Apologia Anatomy together. Well, one evening at the dinner table I asked them to tell their daddy what they learned about the skeletal system, which we had been reading about that day in our textbook. But what came out was, "Framework that provides protection and support", which is what they memorized from the CC card. That stuck in their brain better than all that we had read that day. I really believe CC is valuable. I tried doing it at home and never got around to it. The accountability has really kept our school days consistent as well. Think really hard before giving it up. You might be like me and wish you didn't. stm4him

Math: Saxon 5/4, R&S 4 (off days and summer), Activities for the ALAbacus in the summer, Math games in Essentials 1x/week Thinking Skills: Building Thinking Skills 2 Grammar: Essentials, MP Grammar Book 2 in the summer (when it comes out) Writing: IEW, WWE 4 in the summer Latin: LNST4, Latina Christiana 2 Greek: Spelling: AAS5 Memory Work: CC Foundations, IEW poetry, AWANA, Catechism Reading/Literature: AAR5 (when it comes out) or OPGTR (unless finished), McGuffey Second Reader (1836 hardcover version) for oral reading, VP and MP 4th grade literature and guides (done orally in discussion format), other living books from VP in various subjects, What Your 4th Grader Needs to Know, maybe CLP 4th grade American History? History: VP Self-paced History or SOTW (based on what we were studying in CC), Famous Men of Rome w/ MP guide Science: Apologia (based on what we were studying in CC), MP 4th grade Nature Study (I think it is insects), CLP Nature Reader 4 Bible: VP Bible or What We Believe together, Christian Studies 2 from MP Read alouds from MP (when they come out with them for grades 3-6) Art: Artistic Pursuits in the summer, drawing class during the year Music: violin and piano during the year PE: Awana, occasionally golf with family members, maybe tennis lessons w/ Daddy

I really like the Math, but we are planning to use it as a supplement for Saxon. MP recommends their Math so I am sure it is complete all by itself. The English is great! The Science and Social Studies are great in 2nd grade, probably the Science is fine in all the grades. The Social Studies has a very pacifist view to it beyond 2nd grade, but I think it is ok to introduce this view and explain your own positions where you may disagree. I would consider supplementing with more history vs. social studies. I personally don't like their approach to phonics and spelling, however I do like the Bible Nurture readers themselves. I'm sure the comprehension activities are fine. I prefer a Spalding/Orton-Gillingham approach for spelling and phonics. You might want to consider looking at Memoria Press packages. They use some R & S and they format their guides similarly using simple, uncluttered pages with nice illustrations. HTH! stm4him

Angela, Will you use VP next year even though CC is changing its timeline? That is, assuming you are doing CC next year? Also, do you agree that it only takes 30 minutes? I'm planning to do the Self-paced history and so I think that might take longer. But I'm glad to hear Bible would be quicker. I was thinking something like this: Daily: read card or do review questions orally, do one worksheet, project or test, song if time During read aloud time: resources on the card We would do this four days a week so some cards would run into the next week, but that's ok. Hopefully we can squeeze that in in 30 minutes. We can also review the song in the car..... I was thinking that if we do the self-paced lessons back to back and read the books at night then we could do maybe two 30 minute lessons per day, twice a week and that would take an hour, plus 2 Bible lessons which would take an hour. That way we would fit in 2 Science lessons, 2-4 History lessons (depending on their length) and 4 Bible lessons per week. stm4him

They are my absolute favorites along with CC. I buy pretty much every program they create themselves and pick and choose from their recommended programs. They both put out great stuff! I think you can't go wrong either way! stm4him

I would use Saxon K if my child were not ready to read and write and Saxon 1 if he/she was. Rod and Staff is great for nailing the math facts and has simple, non-distracting yet interesting drawings in it. They have a Math book for K called Counting With Numbers. Or some people go ahead and start the 1st grade book in K. I also really like Activities for the ALAbacus from Right Start b/c it is only 20 dollars and will last through fourth grade. You can buy the workbook with it for 20 dollars and it is a cheaper way to learn the Right Start Method for arithmetic using an abacus. stm4him

I really want to use VP Bible but I am struggling with where it would fit in our schedule. I was planning to use it just once a week, Science once a week, History once a week, and Geography or Nature study once per week. The problem is that we're doing Apologia Science and we really need to do it twice a week. I think we also will really need to do VP History twice per week as well to get through it. We have CC once per week and so we only do regular schoolwork four days a week. We have family devotions and read aloud in the evening. I am not sure where it would fit. Our afternoon study time is from 2:30-4:30 and History and Science are supposed to take 1 1/2 hours. But I feel like by the time they get a snack and whatever interruptions, bathroom breaks, etc. we barely finish by 4:30. Otherwise I'd like to use that extra half hour for Bible as I really want to study through the Bible with them. And everyday exposure is best of course. I also thought about doing it during family devotions but we do other things which I think are important like singing hymns, reading Psalms and Proverbs, devotional books, developing character, talking about other countries, learning manners, and praying together. I don't want to exchange this for workbooks but I do think it is very important to study the Bible as VP does it (or something similar) so they move beyond Bible stories but into actual Bible reading, geography, and historical context, etc. The only other time I can think of is the morning, but most days it is all I can do to make it to the schoolroom dressed, fed, and ready to teach by 8:30 with a nursing 6 month old. Any suggestions? Ways to cut down interruptions would be helpful too! Thanks! stm4him

We usually get through each step in about 3 days unless it is a step where we have to review mastered cards. If it is a step with mastered cards we typically take a whole lesson to just review and do one word card from each previous step. Here is what we do and it is working very well: Day 1: Review all cards behind review tabs. This is usually very quick as there are not many (if any) behind each tab. Teach the new concept as written. Day 2: Review anything I circled that they didn't get correct the first day. Spell the words with tiles and then on paper into a little notebook they have. Do the more words section spelling bee style. This really helps with auditory learners and strengthens spelling skills for more visual types who really have to think about this. Day 3: Review anything in the lesson still circled. Dictate phrases which they write on a whiteboard. Redo any they miss at the end. Dictate sentences which they write onto paper to save in their binder. Redo any they missed at the end. If any words come up that they misspelled that are not from the word cards then I write it into the next lesson for review. This takes us about 15-20 minutes I would say and it makes every day different but still a predictable routine. I hope that helps! stm4him

I would say it is worth it if it meets your long term goals, your kids love it, and it helps you with accountability. For us the first time we tried CC I felt like it wasn't worth all the drive, prep, and hassle and I was exhausted. But I didn't see the big picture b/c my oldest was only 5 at the time. Plus b/c of other things going on I dropped it. But now we are back and loving it and getting so much out of it and I wish I had never left. It is totally holding me accountable for staying on track with school b/c of wanting them to do well when we get there, but more importantly b/c I want them to be ready for the next levels (Essentials, Challenge). I could do CC at home by myself and for years I said I would but I never did get around to it. I say look at the big picture of where you want to go in your homeschool and see how necessary it is! stm4him

I am using AARPL1 with my three year old and my four year old. Here is how we are doing it. We are going slowly each day and each of them are on their own letter. The first thing I do is open to the letter my older one and do the activity. If he understands it and does it correctly (which he usually does), he earns the coloring sheet. Then I do the same thing with my three year old daughter. If they are not able to do the activity that is ok and we just come back to it again the next day. With my three year old in the beginning lessons with the cards we were stuck on the same activity for days if not weeks. But b/c preschoolers love repetition she was happy to do it again. Most days she made progress and that was encouraging. At first she may actually have been memorizing the matches over time, but I was ok with that b/c I knew it was setting a pattern in her brain. Now she is able to come up with a rhyme for several words in a row (and I accept nonsense words) before losing it and not being able to do it. But that is progress from before. After we do the activities/games, each one of them sings the alphabet song while pointing to the letters on the chart. Then they point to the letter they are working on. My oldest one already knew all his letters and the majority of the sounds when we started, but as I wanted to do something and I was waiting for AAR1 to be released I figured we'd get started. And although he doesn't need to learn his letters he is definitely gaining pre-reading skills and we are addressing things now that may have been frustrating later. For example, yesterday we did the activity for capital W where I say the consonant sound and Ziggy says the rest of the word and then he has to blend it together to get the word. That was very hard for him for some reason. But we'll do it again next time and it will be easier. I am looking for them to be able to get all (or almost all) the correct answers, but I do not expect them to master the concept the first time. They will get it over time in the program. Finally, I read to them and then we do the sheet(s) together. The sheets will be more like what you are wanting as the sounds are introduced and also in Level 1. My son learned all his letters and sounds from a LeapFrog video which I highly recommend. I wish I had done that with my first two. My kids enjoy doing "Ziggy". My three year old can rhyme and that's pretty good from my experience. I agree with some of your comments about the animals, though it has been something I noticed and they haven't so far, but I think it is minor in exchange for fostering a love of letters and sounds and "doing school". I can also tell you that I am using AAS with my other two children and they are really progressing very nicely with it and I see huge improvement with my oldest who is a struggling learner. I like that AAR lines up with AAS. The last thing I want to say is that if you feel there are gaps or things you would like to add I suggest either OPGTR as a supplement (can get started on learning to read without sacrificing the skills taught in AARPL1 and w/o needing to be able to write) and/or MP is coming out with a preschool program very soon that will have a letters and numbers book. I am sure it will be awesome! stm4him

I have a daughter who struggles with Math facts. She is the kind of child that needs to do repetition ad nauseum to retain it long term. What has helped her the most in the past was to do pages and pages of math facts. Now before you say that is the most boring thing you ever heard of which would qualify as exasperating your children, let me say that the resources I'm going to suggest were her favorite of all the resources we have tried (and we have tried quite a few, including games). What she loved the most was Lifepac Math b/c of the Bible verse and the little characters in it (though there really weren't that many....I didn't find them distracting). We don't use that as our main program, but it was something I bought in a time where we were off of school and I was doing planning. She needed to work on her facts so I picked those up cheap and she loved them sooo much that literally she cried when I tried to sell the ones we didn't do and keeps them in her room and pulls them out sometimes to work on for fun. So if you can find some units of Lifepacs that are focused on the facts, your child might really enjoy them. The other program we used and (I want to add back in for this very reason) is Rod and Staff Math. The whole reason that Memoria Press chose it is that it masters the basics, especially math facts. They asked the upper level math teachers at Highlands Latin School what they would like the students to be able to do and what they really wanted was for the kids to be grounded in their facts. It has nice drawings to add interest without being loud and distracting. It has a Bible theme to it which I like. It groups the facts together the way SM and RightStart does (whole and two parts). And it has a ton of practice to it b/c it is mastery-based. Flashcards are nice and we use them with Saxon, but it is harder for me to tell how she is doing with them unless I am doing them with her. When she does them on paper it is easier to see the progress and I think it does a better job of increasing speed drill speed. And its is amazing what adding a sticker to a page will do for motivation with some kids :-) Anyway, we are using Saxon and while I really, really am sold on its benefits I also think that a program like Rod and Staff can help solidify those facts to automaticity and increase confidence. It is easy to pull out on days when we aren't doing a Saxon lesson, on car trips, etc. and the answer keys are easy for the kids to use to correct their work. And they are a cheap! Just my two cents... stm4him

I love to plan long term and am always thinking long term. I know that by 7th grade (not necessarily 12 but whenever they are ready for 7th grade level work) I want them ready to do Challenge and Omnibus. I know that people say that is nuts and don't know how that would work, but that is my goal. So, that being said, I have to plan how to get them there. So I have a PreK-6 plan of curricula I like and am hoping they will use. I am also always tweaking as new things come out or we find we don't need something or we find we need more of something. And this plan is relatively new this year so this all assumes that I stick to the path we're on. That being said, I have a 4 year old that is following my plan perfectly :-) And I have a 9 year old and 7 year old that are "behind" my plan and catching up. I have a 9 year old who is really a 7 year old developmentally/academically and a 7 year old who I am forcing to go through the motion of first grade to lay a solid foundation even though intellectually he could handle more. By the time we get to Challenge my older two might be in the same class, and if that is how the Lord works it out that's ok. I think through the pieces of this plan daily b/c it is fun for me to think through the details of a plan, but ultimately I know the pieces will fall into place as the Lord wills for our family and our homeschool. I do the best I can and leave the rest to Him. I have no doubt He will prepare them for the work He has for them, despite my best laid plans. stm4him

Karen, I am using Saxon K, 1, and 2 in our home so I am familiar with it. A SM style program done by the people who make Saxon is appealing to me, but I am trying to think through advantages before adding something else to our day. Also, that problem seems to be the cost. The workbooks are cheap and the student books are doable in cost, but it seems like the teacher book isn't even for sale by itself on cbd and must be expensive even if I could find it. Do you not use an answer key? Just curious.....I know it isn't necessary at the younger levels but I was thinking eventually it might be very helpful. stm4him

Hi, Karen. Can you tell me why you like adding MiF to Saxon and if it seems to be working. I considered that, but didn't want extra math instruction. Thanks! stm4him