Oh, Jean. That's horrible. I'm sorry to hear you all had those experiences. My mission boarding school friend didn't have it that badly, but she did say she wished she'd been with her parents. :( I can't imagine. T.

If they're "tent-makers" making their own money, I have no beef with that. My point about Ed Young was that people will take money and use it for anything. Not all Christian workers have the best intentions. For most missionary families, the sacrifice is one they're willing to make. If not, they wouldn't go. I've never heard one person say, "I hate mission work. I hate where we are, but we have to stay because this is where the Lord has sent us." Generally, what happens is that they decide the Lord doesn't have that in mind for them anymore, or they misunderstood their call. . .whatever. But, for most people, the sacrifice is one they're willing to make. I can't feel too badly for them. For those who are really helping others in tangible ways on earth, I admire them a great deal! I have a dear friend, one whose conversion I was instrumental in, and she's been in China doing mission work for 10 years. Her husband just came back for seminary, and they never stop talking about how much they love China and they don't like the US and they can't wait to go back. There are good people doing all sorts of work, even work I don't agree with. Some are honest, and some are not. Some are truly sacrificing, some are not. Having been a missionary for nearly 10 years and having ministered with many organizations, I don't hold missionaries, as a whole, in any sort of esteemed position. (Used tea bags is crazy.) :)

I don't think anyone is saying here that missionaries should re-use their toilet paper. . . to go that route does nothing to further the conversation. Of course, I've been surprised at how many people are defending Ed Young, exhorting, and leading his congregation though giving his church their banking information during a Sunday morning sermon. Having them write out their routing and account number on slips during the preach. Guiding them through the process with a huge overhead video. Some people get a pass because they're "sacrificing so much by doing the Lord's work." Some people are actually being sacrificial, but just going into the "mission field" or being a career Christian doesn't mean you are. Case in point. T.

This bothered me, too. When we were with a missionary organization, I learned that one of my friends had grown up, basically, in a boarding school in Indonesia, while her parents were busily converting Muslims. I was a missionary at the time, and wanted to live overseas, but I knew then that I'd never send my kids away from me so that I could "serve". By the time I met her, her parents were living well in Colorado Springs, and were quite well off. Still international leaders of the missionary group we were with. I don't think that missionaries need to live in mud huts, though another Charity former-friend of mine does just that in Africa, with her 3 children and a national "4th child" they've quasi-adopted, who I think mostly serves as her maid/mother's helper. They never actually bring her to the states when they're on furloug. However, I remember raising funds and asking for money from churches. We were barely getting by, and then there were the rich folks, who were absurdly wealthy living on the "love offerings" of poorer bretheren, even here in the States. It's not all like this, but certainly there's enough of it that it left a bad taste in my mouth. *Edited to add: I just went to my Charity acquaintance's missions page. It doesn't look like they still have their "daughter/maid".

I started with the "horsemen" when first taking steps away from the faith. I really like Dan's stuff, too. As a missionary who gave up the faith, it's very interesting, and meaningful to me to see other career Christians who stopped believing. I haven't seen those TED talks, but I'm going to go for them now. Thanks for posting, all!

HUG! I'm so sorry you're going through this. Turns out, sex is a part of life for many teens, even Christian ones. Here are my thoughts, and I hope there's something helpful for in them. There's nothing "bad" about an OB appt. Your daughter might have an STD. Sad, but true. Might be pregnant. OB would find out. If she has an STD, she can get treatment. Pregnancy, she can get health care. She can also get birth controle. True, it wouldn't protect her from an STD, but it would protect her from pregnancy. That's a good thing, right? Just because it doesn't do both, doesn't make it a bad thing. What are your hopes for your daughter? I think, you hope that she doesn't have sex anymore, for a myriad of reasons. There's nothing wrong with hoping that. What's the likelihood of that happening? **** small. :( Moving on, what are your next hopes? I assume you don't want her to get pregnant or an STD either. There are steps you can take there to help her on both of those counts. Just love your daughter and try to be realistic. Sometimes, reality just sucks. :grouphug:

I'm reminded of something I heard once, "An eternity of anything is torture." I'm in that camp.

I didn't see this as a rant. I'm terribly greatful to the wonderful teachers I had. Teaching isn't a fun, wonderful job. Maybe that has something to do with the 50% turnover rate within 2 years. Yay for public school teachers! Thanks, Ms. Robinson, Mr. Cesar, Mrs. Parr! And to all of the rest of those people who helped set me on my way! T.

Yeah, I have to go with "no". Now, I want to acknowledge the fact that I'd _like_ to believe. "I want to believe!" I'm sort of an Mulder, I guess. But I think that most weird paranormal things are created in our own brains. Doesn't take more than a tetchy synapse to make us think/feel all sorts of fascinating things.

Absolutely. First Christian in general, and then LDS. Sorry :(

We've told our children that we're getting them each a book for Christmas. Finances are tight, and in-laws have bought us all tickets to fly and visit them. That will be our "present". There will be gifts from family members, but from us. . . just the joy of vacation. I bought my husband his gift this morning. Today's shirt.woot offering. :) T.

I thought it was an interesting series of responses too, and this is why I think this happened. 1. The question presupposes too much. Why are 70% of women leaving the work force? A couple of possibilities: one, they are being forced to; two: they no longer need the money. One is magical, the other is scary. (Of course, the other is, what if 70% of working women were laid off--that's terrifying!) The question touched nerves because there was the underlying assumption (born out by the follow up questions) that 70% of women shouldn't be working outside the home. Why would this question be asked otherwise? If it were less divisive, and there were less public opinion about it, it probably wouldn't even have come up. (What if 70% of people got tattoos? What if 70% of all people tinted their car windows?) The fact is, there's already a feeling about this topic. (After all, from some of follow-up responses, we see that women are already taking jobs away from men. Working women=BAD!). Also, the conservative view from the most predominant religious sentiment on this board, would be that women belong primarily inside the home anyway and women who go to work are hurting their families. 2. The question is sexist. It is. Why didn't she ask "what is 70% of men decided to stay home?" or "what if 70% of dual-family income homes chose to become one-income homes where someone was always home to . . do whatever?" The answer? Because women should be in the home, it's not explicit in the question, but I think it's obviously there. That's why the prickling from much of the respondants, I think. The follow-up comment also smacks of sexism. "Women are FORCED" to work outside of the home. Why? Why aren't men Forced to work outside of the home? It's because, in the OP's paradigm, men are supposed to work outside of the home, and the women are supposed to work inside of it. Poor women, they're "forced" to work outside of the home, while it's really the "responsibility" of the men. That's the difference. She's already pre-supposing there's a moral difference between which gender "gets to" or "should" work outside of the home. I think that goes to prove some of the objections many people had to the original question. It may already be apparent that the OP is opposed to women working outside of the home, though not explicitly in the original question. We have more reason to believe that is so by her follow-ups, showing that the concerns of the respondants were valid. 3. For some other examples. What if 70% of black people moved to Africa? What if 70% of gay people decided to move to gay only communities or cities. (Places where they could feel more comfortable, yanno?) Or, Christians for that matter? What if 70% percent of them went to live in Christian only communities where they could avoid the persecution and the influences of a non-Christian world? What would happen if 70% of anyone (not me) magically decided to do the things I think they should do? :) Do those raise your hackles? Mine too. We are a board predominantly of women, and we are still made to feel ashamed of working outside of the home, even by our own gender. Or that we're doing it primarily to have "expensive clothes" and "eat out regularly" (the OP's follow up questions) However innocent, and hypothetical, the question may have been, it carried so much baggage and sexism in it, you can't be surprised for people being angered/frustrated/hurt by it, digging out those problems and pointing to them. I'm actually glad you brought it up because I had been wondering about that too, and it's been an interesting thing to ponder. T.

I don't have much of a sense of smell, but my husband call smell "sick" on our kids. He says their breath smells "metallic." He smells it before the kids start showing symptoms. Interesting :)

Have a lovely time!

Yes, they do. They really believe you are going to hell if you haven't repented and committed yourself to Jesus.** Your husband and children too. They know the mind of God because the Bible tells them what it is. Case closed. . . for them :) I would know. :( Then, once you've taken your children to this church long enough they are going to come to believe it, and they are going to be grieved that you and their Daddy are going to hell. I have a friend going through this right now. She was seeking Christianity as I was getting out. I tried very carefully to warn her about this, but . . . there you go. Her 5th grade daughter is now frantic believing her father and mother are going to hell. Mom can't believe this is happening. She just wanted for her children to have a community. Best to you. T. **This is the reason for evangelistic missions. All of those people going abroad to share the gospel are doing so because they believe people are going to hell. There's an excellent blog counter that I've seen on some of my friends blogs. It shows you "how many people have gone to hell since you opened this web page." Honestly, this is not a fringe belief; it's just a conservative one.

Me, too. My apologies. As a former Baptist, I just couldn't help but step in there. T.

Charming :) But, then again, I agree with you, too. I was a firm Bible-believer, everything in it was from God. And the Bible does condemn gays. And also contains all kinds of other nasty stuff. That's why, I finally gave up on it. I had too hard a time explaning the evil stuff in it with reason and love. When my 6-year old (who was reading a youth Bible) wanted to know why a woman who was raped was required to be married to her rapist. . .well, let's just say that was the beginning of the end. (I'm not exaggerating. Though my daughter didn't exactly understand what rape was in the most stringent detail, she understood it well enough to realize this was a terrible thing.) I've got to tip my hat, in a way, to Christians who are able to make the most and bring out the best in the Bible, ignoring the nasty bits and reconciling these icky areas with their faith. I think that speaks a lot to their better nature. For me, it was too much to swallow that a loving god condemned good (consentual love) and elevated evil (genocide and rape). T.

Oh, my! My little town had a family carnival in the fall and there was a cakewalk. Beautiful cakes, full sized. None store-bought. (We didn't even have store where you could buy cakes.) You had to pay a ticket for each spin. WE had numbers on the floor, and you'd stand on a number, and then the game runner would spin a large wheel, similar to a vertical roulette wheel, I guess, and whatever number you stood on. . . well, you hoped that was yours. I remember being in 4th grade and winning a cake. Mine was white too, with coconut. I was overjoyed :) T.

Winter's a'comin'! Does anyone have any suggestions for snow boots that would be good for outdoor sports such as snowmobiling, or where I might buy some. Cabella's is rather expensive for my blood. If you have any ideas where I might buy some good, warm boots, I'd so appreciate hearing them. Thanks in advance! T.

Right. Isn't that what "playing doctor" is?

:) My daughter was fascinated with breasts for the longest time. She tried to draw pictures for her children's music instructor (DD was 6). We were doing a series on African music. Daughter got some National Geographics and saw women going bare breasted, and assumed that's what all African women did. She drew many MANY pictures of topless women to give to her instructor before I told her that most women in Africa wear tops, and that she might want to draw some other types of pictures. (Also, the music instructor was male. Imagine! I did tell him about that, and he laughed loudly and with good humor.)

Hard to say, but I can surely tell you my situation. I'm going to have to go back to work so that I can make sure we have enough money for retirement. Believe you me, we'll still be living Very Modestly (right now we're on food stamps, so I hope not THAT modestly). But considering the years we spent in religious work for a pittance, now we're so behind on saving for retirement that I have no choice. No, I won't be buying expensive cars or expensive clothes, because all the money that would go to frivolities will go into tiding us over in our later years. I wonder how many women working full time will be doing so with that consideration.

When my littlest was a new four, I remember him having a bath with his little sister and telling her to "kiss my peepee." He was standing up and laughing, watching the water sluice off of his penis when he stood up in the tub. I can assure you (as closely as it is possible to assure someone of that) that he's never had anyone say that to him. I just told him we didn't do that, and our parts were private, and we don't tell other people to touch or kiss them or touch or kiss other peoples private parts. It doesn't strike me as that big a deal, but . . . if you want to keep any eye out for issues, cool. Just don't let yourself be horrified or ashamed. It could be, and is likely, normal.

I belive most men are FORCED into the workforce. My husband would certainly prefer to stay home and do wood working and enjoy making music. Oh, eventually he'd want to go back to work and use that Ph.D. he earned, but not being forced to use it would be nice. Same for me and my Masters degree. But, then again, I got my degree so that I could use it. And I'd like to put it to use again when my children are older. I would certainly be forced to work if my husband wasn't already. Instead, he's forced to earn money to keep us afloat.

sigh. . . haven't had oysters since last time I went branding with a friend in high school. Right off the bull, cooked over a hand torch :) Envious.