Well, we decided not to go after all. I talked to ds, and told him that I was planning to go and stay. Although he understood why he couldn't go alone, he really didn't want me to stay. He thought that would look really weird, especially since the kids would all be back in the bedroom playing video games. He said he'd rather miss the party altogether than have me sit there. He loved the idea of having his friend over next week for dinner and birthday cake, and giving him his gift then. So I let that be my deciding factor, and we made plans to spend the day in MD with dh's family. Ds called his friend and said he took it fine, and they had a nice conversation on the phone after that. Honestly I'm feeling very relieved. We have this friend over every Wednesday to spend time with ds and our family, so I'm not concerned that this will make him feel rejected. Thank you for all the advice-- you all helped me think through this difficult situation and make the best decision I could.

No, you're right, I don't think there will be open drug use or violence at the party. One or more of the adults might be on something, and there could be a verbal fight between the adults at the party, but that would be the worst I would expect. (Of course, you never know for sure, though.) I don't think my son's physical safety would be at risk, especially with me there watching. It's more that I don't trust their supervision of the children, which is why I wouldn't leave ds there alone. Also, my impression is that the boy's other friends are pretty rough, and there will likely be conversation topics that these adults would not think twice about, that I would never want ds to be part of. So it's more a question of supervision than anything, really. I wish I knew for sure whether the other kids who were invited are able to come. If they are, I would much rather skip the party altogether, and give the child his present when we see him next week. If no one else is coming, then I'd feel more inclined to stop in for at least a while... but I have no way of knowing this...:confused:

I am so burned out with having to navigate my dc's friendships with difficult families, I can't even think through how to manage this latest one. So I need help from the hive here: My 10 yos is invited to one of his best friend's birthday parties on Saturday. It is being held at his apartment, from 2pm and becoming a sleepover that night. He is a good kid and gets along very well with ds. The problem: his family who will be hosting this party are in and out of jail, drug users, violent, and have the police in and out of their home on a regular basis. I have never allowed my ds to go to their apartment, and instead have always brought their ds here to play. I already told the boy that my ds won't be allowed to sleepover, but that he might be able to come over for a little while in the afternoon (thinking that I would be able to stay during that time too.) The more I'm thinking about it, though, I don't really want to sit in a small apartment with these people while a birthday party goes on, which will probably consist of the boys just playing video games or watching movies back in a bedroom somewhere while I sit on a couch with the adults in the living room. But I don't want to disappoint the boy.... So, wwyd??

It sounds as though you think the government is the answer to people's problems and the one to level out the various income levels, taking from the rich and distributing to the poor. I strongly disagree with that mindset. The government does not have the right to interfere in people's lives and finances that way. People are entitled to the money they earn, and the government should not take that from people in the form of higher taxes, in order to redistribute it to others the government thinks should have it instead. As far the issue of public assistance goes, there are many, many more people receiving it than need it. In the town where I grew up, and where my family still lives, *most* people are on welfare. I have seen firsthand many of these people and for the most part they are able-bodied and minded people, who do not get jobs because they are more comfortable with getting money from the government. They often don't get married, because if they do, the gov. will know they also have their bf/gf's income in the household, so couples commit fraud by just living together so they can have both the income and the gov. money. They often have ipods, huge tvs, cable tv, extensive cell phone plans, and other extras that many working class families can't afford. They use their food stamps to buy expensive items like $50 birthday cakes at the bakery where my sister works. This is abuse of the system, and it is rampant. This is just in one small town-- extended over the entire country, this means millions of dollars a year in wasted money, so yes, this bothers me. I am okay with government help for those who are in immediate financial need, but there are way too many who are abusing the system, and it should bother anyone who cares about our country and the well-being of our citizens, imo.

It would bother me a little, especially since I view our homeschooling as being very connected to our family's spiritual life... it would be hard for me to not have that in common with anyone else in my church family. If we were only homeschooling for academic or social reasons, it probably wouldn't bother me as much. I love being part of a church where we have many homeschoolers. I would say that probably 70% of the most involved families at our church (meaning those who participate in most of the church's activities, serve actively in various ministries, etc.) homeschool. There are also quite a few families whose kids go to public school, but those families don't tend to participate quite as actively. It is very nice to have other families who are going through similar circumstances in our church family, who can relate to the trials and joys of our daily lives. It wouldn't be a must if I were seeking a new church, and I would be reluctant to leave a church where otherwise we were happy just to have more homeschoolers, but now that I've experienced it, it would be very hard to give up.

I think there are more parents who say their kids love school than kids who actually do. I have talked to parents who said their tiny infants love day care. Everyone wants to think that their children are fine in what ever circumstances they are, especially when they know those circumstances won't be changing.

I agree with this. I definitely think that environmentalism in particular is a religion for many people, and often the food issue as well. Another reason I see it that way, besides what FOS said above, is that there are no sure answers about the benefits/dangers of most foods, and the experts change their opinion on these things every few years (and often put out products and books to make a good buck while they're at it). So it does take a certain faith to believe in them, that if you eat things things and avoid those, you will live longer, be healthier, etc.-- when really, that may not be the case at all. I guess that's why, when it comes to many "healthy food" issues, I am agnostic. I think you really can't know, because the evidence doesn't exist, and you have to take the word of experts who have been wrong so many times before. To me, it seems gullible when people are chasing this particular oil, then this particular vegetable, now avoiding this food, then that, when really, no one knows the truth about it all. I'm sure the fact that I believe that God has both the earth and my life in His hand makes me less concerned with looking to the experts, than those who think the earth and their lives are going to be determined solely by the acts of people.

Thank you everyone! I appreciate all of your input. I'm leaning toward continuing to move her on, and just keep working hard with her. The explanation of catching up (from Laurieb) was really helpful. After thinking about it that way, I do see that she is catching up. She's not as far behind as a third grader as she was as a second grader. Some of you mentioned possible learning disabilities... I am pretty sure that the problems dd had were temporary, and are improving now rather than staying constant or getting worse. She used to really reverse letters and numbers very badly when she was 5 and 6, which really held up all of her schoolwork for two years. She doesn't do that anymore at all. The only thing I've noticed as a possible problem within the past few months is that she has a really hard time memorizing things.. like verses for AWANA, etc. We can go over a verse 20 or 30 times together, and still a few minutes later she will completely forget it. I might still have her tested for learning disabilities, just to be sure...where would I go about having that done? Also, when people talk about helping a child catch up to grade level, what do you envision doing to make that happen? How does one do that?

I have an 8 year old daughter who is currently in third grade, and I'm considering whether she should repeat third grade next year. (Because of all of our various activities and our co-op, it has been necessary to put the grade labels on our kids from the very beginning, so she is very aware that she is in third grade.) She had serious trouble with reading, writing, and math in K and 1st, and though she has made great strides since then, she still is a full year behind the basic skills for her grade. She is currently doing second grade math, reading very beginning readers with some help, doing early second grade spelling, etc. I've been working hard with her on these areas, and she's really improving, but still a full year behind on most things. Her birthday is August 30th, so she just barely makes the grade cutoff for her current grade. I think with an extra year, she could get up to grade level and do very well. On the other hand, she is a very bright, articulate, creative girl. People who know her well are always shocked when I mention that she has had difficulty academically. She is also extremely social, which does concern me a bit about holding her back. She definitely would view it as a failure on her part, and would be upset about not being in the same grade as her friends. In this situation, where as I said, we do have grade labels for our kids, would you continue moving her up in grades and just keep on working on bringing her up to grade level over the years, or would you have her repeat third grade next year?

Oh No!!! I am so disappointed! I decided to look a little more into the ingredients of LA's Totally Awesome Cleaner, and it's bad. :crying: It contains 2-butoxyethanol, which when you google it, has all kinds of health warnings, including causing tumors in lab rats. I'm so disappointed-- I really loved that cleaner. I'm not the most cautious person around when it comes to being organic, green, etc., but even I can't justify using a cleaner that contains a known carcinogen! I'm glad I know though, so thanks for asking about the ingredients. I might never have known otherwise.

This is what it says on their website: Why aren't the ingredients listed on the label? LA’s Totally Awesome All Purpose Cleaner ® is non-toxic. Therefore, the listing of ingredients on the label is not required by law. LA’s Totally Awesome All Purpose Cleaner ® unique formula is protected under the US Trade Secrecy Act and has been extensively tested to verify the product's credentials. LA’s Totally Awesome All Purpose Cleaner ® complies with all current labeling requirements for ingredient disclosure on cleaning products. If you have an allergy, medical reason, or technical reason for wanting to know if LA’s Totally Awesome All Purpose Cleaner ® contains a particular item, please contact us at 800-482-2875 and we will help you as best we can.

LA's Totally Awesome Cleaner!!! I discovered this about a year ago and it is amazing stuff. It works very, very well. You can use it on just about everything, from bathrooms, to kitchens, to floors, even fabric! It's only $1, and that is for the concentrate-- which I dilute with water in another spray bottle according to the directions on the bottle, 1 part cleaner to 10 parts water for general cleaning. So I get 10 full sized spray bottles of cleaner for $1! I use it together with microfiber cleaning cloths that I bought at Gabriel Brothers (the ones in the $1 aren't that great) and that really works well. I just throw the cloths in with my laundry as I need to, and now I don't need to buy paper towels anymore either. Here is a link to more reviews of it, and a picture so you can see which one it is-- you want the one in a clear bottle with red writing. The Dollar Store sells other varieties of LA's Totally Awesome, but this is the one that I have used and recommend. http://www.viewpoints.com/L-A-Totally-Awesome-Cleaner-reviews

I used to feel that way, but the conclusion I eventually reached is that our feelings and preferences don't determine what is true. There are lots of people who reject parts of the Bible because they: don't find it personally acceptable to believe that God would send anyone to hell, or that a good God could allow anyone to suffer here on earth, or that Jesus is the only way to heaven, or that God would order the killings of women and children in the Old Testament....I could go on and on. My point is: ultimately, if our quest is to know what is true, it doesn't really matter which aspects of biblical teaching appeal to us, or which we want to believe are true. God's ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. If it's what He thinks is best, it is best, whether we like it or not. If He chooses who will be saved and who will perish, and uses that process for His glory, it is not our place to argue with that, and call it unfair or unkind. He owes us nothing-- we all deserve to perish! Romans 9 explains this concept very directly. It's not for the vessel to complain to its creator about how He will use it. I used to think that I could never accept election or predestination because it seemed unkind and unfair. I also thought it was unbiblical. Through my Bible study, however, it became clear to me that those concepts are in fact taught in Scripture. I had no choice but to accept it, or else put myself in the position of authority and decide that what I prefer is more important than what God's Word says. It took a few years until I really became comfortable with those doctrines, but now they have become a joy to me... I realize now that I did *nothing* to be saved, not even seek for God myself! It was all Him, and nothing of me at all.

I voted "other" because there are so many factors. For a child who is going to go to traditional school, preschool can help them get ready for what is expected of them in kindergarten, although a parent could do those things at home with the child too. I would be reluctant to send most children who are going to be homeschooled to preschool, because there is a very much excitement and preparation for traditional school in most preschools, and I wouldn't want my child being geared up for something he/she won't be doing, and risk the child being disappointed about homeschooling. There are some situations where I would still consider preschool, but very cautiously and only if the benefits outweigh the negatives. I definitely don't think preschool is a must for any child.

I can relate to this. I had an ultrasound picture of a baby that I miscarried, and every time I came across it, it broke my heart all over again. I eventually threw it away, because I just couldn't take the sadness that the picture brought up. I have never missed having it, though I will *always* miss that baby. Not having a picture hasn't made me forget, but having the picture made me remember too vividly. People handle these things differently, so please respect your sister's wishes. I will be praying for her.

I understand a tiny bit of how you feel. My mother was in and out of the hospital all fall, and I was there with her, and my life was pretty overwhelming. You have even more going on than I did. However, I looked at your children's ages, and I have to say that with children those ages (10 and under), I would do what I could to make Christmas "Christmas" for them. Their lives have also probably been a whirlwind throughout all of this as well. They are probably tired of being at home 6 days a week, with their dad at work, and all of this other *stuff* that's going on, too. They didn't get to go trick or treating, etc. If it would mean a lot to them to have some of their usual Christmas traditions (and I think it probably would), I think it would be very kind of you to give them that. That doesn't mean dressing up the house to impress the neighbors, or putting out every decoration you have, or doing everything exactly the way you normally do. But as much as Christmas might mean as much to you without anything special at all, it's not usually that way for kids. Maybe just the tree and stockings? Some hot chocolate and a Christmas read a loud? Playing Christmas music and letting them make more decorations for around the house if they want to? Whatever your traditions are, I would try to have at least a taste of that for the kids. They are only children once, and I wouldn't want my kids to "miss" a single Christmas in their childhoods if they don't have to.

We LOVE our church, too. Our whole family does. In fact our kids even say that when they grow up they want to stay in this area not just to be near us, but also so they can stay at our church. It's a rural, non-denominational Bible church, about 250 regular attenders. The things that we love the most are the solid Biblical teaching and the warm and caring group of people. We have so many good friends there, so many that we have been helped by when we've needed it, and whom we have been blessed to help as well. There is just the right number of useful activities without being a burden, and we love the mix of mostly hymns with some new praise songs as well. Best of all, even after having been around these people a lot for the past five years, I have STILL never heard a single word of complaint or gossip about anyone else, which is incredible in any group of people, ime. I am so thankful for our church!

I agree with you! Of course everyone knows that there are great p.s. kids, and awful homeschooled kids, but as a group I have found that homeschooled kids are much nicer. When my kids play with the neighborhood kids here, they have problems and face issues that they have never faced with their homeschooled friends. I'm sure my kids would be more that way if they were in public school too-- the sheer number of hours spent away from home, away from moral instruction, and in the dog eat dog social world of public school is bound to have some effect.

Me too!!! I love homeschooling, and am so glad my kids do too. We are having a great year, and I'm so glad I toughed it out, when I felt like throwing in the towel last spring. I wouldn't give up this life spent with my children for anything!

Here is something that may help you: that passage does not mean what your friend thinks it does. 1 Thess. 5:22 says to avoid "every appearance of evil." If you read the context, it's plain that Paul isn't talking about avoiding things that may look like evil to others-- instead, he is saying to avoid evil, in every instance. I.e. "avoid every instance of evil." This verse has been widely misinterpreted and used to support legalism over the years, and it's very freeing to understand it in its proper context. Paul is saying that evil exists, and that we should stay away from it, in every form that it shows itself-- not that we need to avoid any activity that might look like evil to someone else. We are Christians who celebrate Halloween as you've done. Fun family supper, non-scary costumes, and trick or treating. Even though we have many Christian friends who feel differently, my husband and I have carefully considered all their arguments, and we honestly don't feel any pang of conscience over it whatsoever-- if we felt it was dishonoring to God in any way, we certainly wouldn't do it. It's innocent family fun, and that is all. If some feel that avoiding Halloween helps them to be a better light in their neighborhood and families, that is fine; personally we have found the opposite to be true: we have been able to build our positive relationships with our neighbors through trick or treating, and I think both friends and family members appreciate that we are able to have fun in this way, while still maintaining our Christian testimony.

Our family has a lot of fun with Halloween. (And we also have very few friends who celebrate the day.) We don't do anything scary or occult-related. We have a fun supper with jack o lantern cheeseburgers (cut triangle eyes and nose, and a jagged mouth, out of yellow american cheese before putting on burger), Halloween jello jigglers (from the mold), and put ice cubes with gummy worms frozen in them in our drinks. Then the kids (and sometimes dh too) get their costumes on, and we go trick or treating around our neighborhood. When we get back, we sort through the kids' candy, and let them eat some of it while we watch The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown cartoon on dvd. We also have hot cider ready for when we get home, and sometimes a yummy dessert for grownups, like pumpkin cheesecake. We take LOTS of pictures all night. It is a really fun night for us!

You do NOT have to spend anywhere near that amount. It appears from this thread that some do spend this much, but I can tell you that I have never, ever spent anything close to that per year. I don't know the details of the specific programs you are using, but there are cheaper ways. Your younger two kids can work together on most things, and the few odds and ends you need to buy for them individually should be inexpensive. I would also combine the older four for most subjects as well, with the possible exception of your 11th grader needing to work independently. Reading, writing, math, science, and math are the focus of what you need-- anything else is supplemental/optional. I spent about $350 total this year for my three, ages 14, 9, and 8, and it was the most I have ever spent. Please don't buy into the idea that spending $1000+ is par for the course in homeschooling-- it's not the case.

I followed the advice given on previous threads, and got the Larson Elementary Algebra textbook, solutions, and dvds by isbn that were recommended-- and when I received the textbook I found that it is an instructor's edition, with all of the answers in red ink beside every question in the exercises!! That can't be what everyone else is using, is it?? We can't use this, and we're supposed to be starting tomorrow. :banghead: I have searched online for the past hour, and everything I'm finding either is specifically described as the same instructor edition that I have, or is listed by the same isbn number-- so I'm afraid to order and risk receiving this same edition again. Please, if anyone knows the isbn number for the normal student edition, that does not contain the answers, please let me know as soon as possible. In the meantime, I guess I will have to white out all of the answers for every chapter, but that is going to get old really quickly.

I hope you don't do it. From what you've said, it sounds like your kids and family will be better off with homeschooling. As far as getting things done during the day and being able to focus on the kids, I think most moms of kids in public school, if they're being honest, will tell you that there is not time for much of anything once the kids get home from school. From getting home from school, after-school activities, dinner, to homework and gathering everything for the next day, there is very little quality parent-child time during the week. So you're not only giving up the time your child is in school, but most of the day, most days. Also, I have to disagree with those who suggest casually putting your kids in school to just see what happens. I have known far too many people who've done something similar, only to realize the benefits of homeschooling just as their children are adapting to school life-- and then have the problem of children who don't want to come home again. Public schooling is a totally different lifestyle from homeschooling, and you can't just expect kids to bounce back and forth between two different worlds without repercussions. I know the feeling of just not wanting to homeschool, I do. But for me, I personally wouldn't base such a huge, life changing decision on my feelings. Especially if the children wanted to be homeschooled, I would do it, but find ways to make it easier and more enjoyable for myself as well.

I promised my younger two children, almost 10 yos and almost 8 yod, that I would help make school more fun for them this year. We've been doing "just the basics" for quite awhile now, and I want to make school time more enjoyable for them, rather than all of us hurrying to just get it done and get onto other things. This is what we're using this year: Rod and Staff Grammar 3 Science at co-op- human body and Considering God's Creation Tapestry of Grace 4 (history and lit) Natural Speller Horizons Math Reason for Handwriting Various art books that we own I don't know what we're using for Bible.. any fun suggestions for that? Or other, supplemental things I could add to my Rainbow Resource order for fun? I'm thinking hands-on sorts of things... maybe what I really am asking is how do you make learning fun for mid-elementary aged kids? What resources have you used that your kids have really enjoyed?