I did Pfizer/Pfizer then Moderna 50 mcg

Not what I’m seeing in the ICU I’m working in. What I’m seeing is people dying from Covid, and almost all are not vaccinated. A very few are vaccinated. During the Covid surges we don’t even bother putting the body bags in the cupboard, we just leave them handy on the counter top. I’m sorry if that is graphic but that is what I’m experiencing. I feel beaten down and sickened by so much death. The things that you are saying @Pen are not what I am experiencing at all.

Oh yes I think about it all the time, which is why I asked if anyone could tell me what I was missing. To me it’s like someone who has a headache and takes a Tylenol and a vitamin C pill and, when the headache gets better, says with great certainty that it must have been the Vitamin C that took the headache away. Does that seem a logical response? To me it does not. It’s the absolute certainty in the face of less than certain evidence that I find hard to understand.

This is a link to a Dr in Houston who says she has had hospital privileges withdrawn because she prescribed Ivermectin for Covid. She says she has treated 2000 Covid patients and none have needed to be hospitalized. However she also says that she gave them monoclonal antibodies. Does anyone know more about this particular Dr? How does it make sense to say that you have treated patients with both Ivermectin- not sure what the state of the data is, and Monoclonals - definitely good data that they work, and be so committed to the Ivermectin being a great treatment. She states in the interview that patients come to her because she freely gives monoclonal antibody therapy. I keep thinking there must be something to Ivermectin because of it’s devoted followers, and then I hear this type of reasoning that makes no sense. I do not understand how you can look at some of this stuff logically and think the way they think. Or maybe I am missing something- quite possible I am - so someone please tell me if so because I remain so confused.

Some places are giving the monoclonal antibody treatment to people with high risk exposure, before they even test positive, and sometimes even giving it regularly to high risk people who can’t be vaccinated. Maybe she could check and see if that’s possible.

This is all very similar to what we are experiencing here. It’s hard to believe it has come to this.

Another consequence that the Covid denying people behaving in jerkish ways haven’t thought about. This whole thing would be a little easier to cope with if you felt like you had support from your community and that everyone was pulling together. I have never seriously considered leaving nursing before, but now it’s more a case of when not if. I just don’t quite have the gumption to do anything right now, so haven’t made a move, but I don’t know if I can take another surge.

Could you link this game please? I tried to look it up but there seemed to be a number of options.

I know a couple of younger people under the age of 50, who got Covid twice. One of them after being vaccinated. Their second illnesses were fairly similar to the first.

I agree, they aren’t equally likely to be probable. I do think it’s not impossible to inadvertently cannulate a vessel, but not very likely to happen at all, and, even if it did, may very well not be the cause, especially since young men are more likely to experience myocarditis. It would have to mean that there is something anatomically that makes it more likely to hit young men’s veins, which seems very unlikely. I don’t think you were talking in absolutes, your post was more of a jumping off point for my thoughts. The longer this pandemic goes on, the more it seems that we still have so much to learn. I’m tired of hearing about crazy theories which are presented as sure things, before there is evidence to support them, but on the other hand, those of us searching for evidence based truths should acknowledge that there are things we just don’t know yet. It feels like whack a mole. As soon as the evidence is produced to answer one unlikely theory, another one comes right along.

I guess my point is that I don’t think there is enough evidence for anyone to say injecting into the vein inadvertently is definitely what is causing the problem, and I don’t think there is enough evidence to say it definitely isn’t. I don’t think absolutes are helpful in situations where the evidence isn’t completely clear, and I feel those stances are causing some of the problems we’re all having. Other than that I have nothing to add to the subject.

Well I’m a nurse who gives IM injections and, although it is extremely unlikely, I do think it is possible. I was with someone giving an IM one time, not the deltoid, and when they drew back they got a good blood return, so withdrew the needle and tried again. Whether that is a possible mechanism for the side effects, I have no idea, but I would not classify the possibility, of injecting some of the fluid into the vein, as ludicrous or bogus. I do think it is irresponsible of people to claim that that is definitely what is causing the problem.

I think it is more likely to be that too but I must admit I haven’t been keeping that close an eye on that angle, so I don’t really consider myself that well informed about it.

I think it is possible to inadvertently hit a vein in the deltoid as some people’s anatomy is different than expected, but my understanding is that it is unusual to do so.

I don’t know all that much about the virus vector vaccines like J&J or AZ as I have not read too much about them. I was taught to aspirate when doing IM injections, but I don’t think it is part of the protocol now. It is certainly an interesting theory and should be considered carefully, but I think it is irresponsible of people like Dr Campbell to be talking about it in terms of a proven, certain theory.

It’s hard to keep up with all the doom and gloom prophecies about the mRNA vaccines. And yet, a study of 11 million people found the Non Covid Death rate among the vaccinated to be lower than the unvaccinated, not higher. And the State of Texas published figures showing a much lower rate of Covid infections and deaths in the vaccinated population. I find these figures encouraging. I find MedCram and TWIV to be good sources of calm, measured information.

The spike protein in the mRNA vaccines is in the pre-attachment state though. It was found that by attaching 2 proteins, the spike protein is locked in its pre-attachment phase and not able to bind with receptors. This is not an area of expertise for me, but there is a good Q&A type podcast from MedCram that discusses it. It seems that the spike protein in the mRNA vaccines may not behave in the same way as that on the SARS-CoV2 virus.

The study that looked at Non-Covid deaths among vaccinated and unvaccinated might be somewhat comforting too. It found a lower rate of death, Non Covid Death, in the vaccinated group. I think they looked at something like 11 million people. It has been linked on other threads, I listened to them talking about it on the TWIV podcast a couple of weeks ago. It would appear that whatever the vaccine is doing, it is not causing more deaths in those that received it, indeed they found less deaths in that group.

Don’t know if this has been shared already but I just watched an interesting video from MedCram about a study looking at infection rate and deaths in fully vaxed, partially vaxed, and unvaxed, done by the state of Texas. https://youtu.be/JWMkeMA3sfA

I just don’t get why people are like this. I got in trouble a couple of times with some friends because I invited other friends along to something and apparently wasn’t supposed to, so I guess I am out of the loop on it.

When I was in England visiting my parents I arranged to meet a friend. I told her I wanted to stay outside as I was being super careful not to take anything back to my parents. As soon as we met she told me that she had tested that morning and was negative. It was so nice to have that extra layer of care, and so wonderful that she cared enough to do it! It is much more part of life there to test before doing something with possibly more risk, and I really liked that. Such a change to how things are around here.

I think the problem is that there is no reasoning other than that they are not going to comply with vaccination, or maybe they don’t believe that the vaccinations are protective.

I agree it’s horrible to see people relying on these things that are not keeping them safe, and turning down the vaccines that might well have kept them safe. We have had family member after family member ask the Drs what they could have done differently to have avoided serious illness and death for their family member, and when the dr says vaccination may well have helped they say oh no we couldn’t do that.

I think it is quite possible that vaccinated people are far more likely to get tested, and so the fact that that amount of positive tests are among vaccinated people does not really tell us too much about the extent of breakthrough cases. Your area may be different but around here many, not all, of the same people who are not getting vaccinated are also not testing and not isolating.

Quoting myself to say I should hold off on being so annoyed until further info. I looked at a thread on Twitter from the guy linked up thread, and it seemed to say that Ivermectin wasn’t part of the protocol in the withdrawn paper. I don’t really get it, because it seems to say the study ended July 2021, and I thought they had been advocating Ivermectin since December 2020, but I don’t know so need to hold off commenting until I can read more.