I just had an AHA moment (Asperger's)

[popmom]

Eleven year old girls can have some pretty intense emotions even when they are not on the spectrum. DD11 is absolutely exhausting lately. I've mentioned before that I wanted to get the help of a therapist or behaviorist--that it's next on my list.

 

DD spent hours today stuck in anger and sadness. Lots of tears. Some yelling. All because I asked her to practice violin before her lesson today. She spiraled because she feels no motivation to continue practicing. I ask her if she would like to quit violin or take a break from lessons for awhile, and that made her even more angry and sad. If I just sit and listen to her carry on without saying anything she gets angry and says, "Well! Say something!" Then whatever I say is wrong and makes her feel worse. Darned if I do and darned if I don't. 

 

So I'm thinking, how the heck do I describe to a therapist what this is? I can't figure out what is behind all these disturbing behaviors. Crying, yelling, throwing things (carefully lol. she doesn't throw things at people. she throws things into a sofa cushion), banging her fists on the table, etc. She can sound so disrespectful and hateful. But that's not the real girl I know. It's not her intent to hurt me. But to anyone who doesn't know her--they would be horrified, I'm sure. I'm looking for sensory overload, but that doesn't explain it. 

 

Well, this afternooon dd's social skills teacher (who is a sort of behaviorist/Asperger's consultant) emailed out a list of books she has for sale that are left over from a recent conference. One is a book she wrote called Successful Problem Solving for High Functioning Individuals with ASD

 

There is one review in particular that made the light bulb go off. It was written by a woman with HFASD. This is just one small portion of her review:

 

"This book offers a simple, no-nonsense, direct, visual system that a person of any age can understand. The system starts with defining the problem, which is the center of the visual. Once the problem is defined four visual choices are laid out -(1) seek help, (2) talk it out and compromise, (3) let it go and move on or (4) let it bother you. It is very helpful to see that simply doing nothing and thus remaining stuck is actually making the choice to let a problem bother you. This becomes visually clear when one can see the words "let it bother you" in a circle and at the same time see three other choices in three other circles."

 

For the first time I'm seeing that a lot of dd's behavior issues are tied to a lack of problem solving skills. Her social skills teacher identified this as one of her deficits at our initial consultation, but I had a very limited understanding of what that meant. I'm thinking, "This is why she always has to ask me to help her find clothes when she gets out of the shower or why she's overwhelmed when she can't find her shoes" 

 

I now have a way to explain what happened today over violin lessons. She got stuck. She couldn't solve the problem--like there's no way out. 

 

Obviously I'm buying the book. Gosh I have so much to learn. 

 

PeterPan had invited us to share our bits of progress on her thread, so I thought I would share. Just how long of a process is this? From first diagnosis to...whenever, if ever there is smooth sailing. Those initial evaluations give a diagnosis and then--See ya! And I'm scrambling to find resources and books and classes and just accidentally figuring stuff out as I go. I feel like I need to stock up on books and take a week away from home. Go shut myself up in a hotel room and read and read and read until I get this Asperger's thing figured out.

[Crimson Wife]

You might also like Unstuck and On Target.

[popmom]

You might also like Unstuck and On Target.

 

Thanks! That looks like it would be very helpful, too! 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Getting stuck is real. I swear I'm a normal functioning adult, most of the time. But when I'm stressed, hungry, tired, sick... the autism kicks in and all bets are off. This weekend, when I was all of the above, I came up to my husband sobbing and told him, "I don't know what to eat. Just tell me what I need to eat." And then he started offering me options. "Don't give me options! Just tell me!" So then he finally told me to have applesauce, and I did, and everything was fine again. (My ability to pinpoint the problem and ask him for help getting unstuck, is a recent and much welcomed development) I hope there is a way you can help your daughter develop this awareness sooner. Also, try not to judge particular problem that might need unsticking. As much as my Dh tries to understand autism, I can sense him bristling when I ask him for help with things that should be simple. (Tell me what to wear. Tell me to take a bath. Tell me to go to bed...) If it was easy, I wouldn't ask!

[prairiewindmomma]

Getting stuck is real. I swear I'm a normal functioning adult, most of the time. But when I'm stressed, hungry, tired, sick... the autism kicks in and all bets are off. This weekend, when I was all of the above, I came up to my husband sobbing and told him, "I don't know what to eat. Just tell me what I need to eat." And then he started offering me options. "Don't give me options! Just tell me!" So then he finally told me to have applesauce, and I did, and everything was fine again. (My ability to pinpoint the problem and ask him for help getting unstuck, is a recent and much welcomed development) I hope there is a way you can help your daughter develop this awareness sooner. Also, try not to judge particular problem that might need unsticking. As much as my Dh tries to understand autism, I can sense him bristling when I ask him for help with things that should be simple. (Tell me what to wear. Tell me to take a bath. Tell me to go to bed...) If it was easy, I wouldn't ask!

 

Very sincerely----it's super awesome that you can pinpoint your specific need. :)

 

Getting stuck is very, very, very real.  And you're right, having options can just add to feeling overwhelmed.  I finally figured this out about one of mine. 

[popmom]

Very sincerely----it's super awesome that you can pinpoint your specific need. :)

 

Getting stuck is very, very, very real.  And you're right, having options can just add to feeling overwhelmed.  I finally figured this out about one of mine. 

 

I guess this is why she freaked out when I offered two options of quitting violin or taking a break from it.

 

But she doesn't want me to tell her anything either. I tried to tell her to just stand up and go practice, but that made her mad too. And she made it to the lesson. Remarkably she got up and brushed her hair and got in the car and went to the lesson. That's what ultimately got her unstuck.

[popmom]

Getting stuck is real. I swear I'm a normal functioning adult, most of the time. But when I'm stressed, hungry, tired, sick... the autism kicks in and all bets are off. This weekend, when I was all of the above, I came up to my husband sobbing and told him, "I don't know what to eat. Just tell me what I need to eat." And then he started offering me options. "Don't give me options! Just tell me!" So then he finally told me to have applesauce, and I did, and everything was fine again. (My ability to pinpoint the problem and ask him for help getting unstuck, is a recent and much welcomed development) I hope there is a way you can help your daughter develop this awareness sooner. Also, try not to judge particular problem that might need unsticking. As much as my Dh tries to understand autism, I can sense him bristling when I ask him for help with things that should be simple. (Tell me what to wear. Tell me to take a bath. Tell me to go to bed...) If it was easy, I wouldn't ask!

 

Really appreciate you taking the time to share this. It helps me to see this from my child's perspective.

 

I really appreciate everyone on this forum. I don't have anyone to share these things with. No one I know understands. I don't really know anyone who has a child on the spectrum. I'd love to find a support group, but I haven't had much luck with that.

[PeterPan]

I'm losing track here but if this is all the same dc she needs evals. There's a normed Test of Problem Solving

[Lecka]

I am late seeing this, but I got advice wrt my son that my presence can be stimulating and eye contact can be even more stimulating. So if you can safely leave her it is something to consider *if it is helpful.*. It's something that I would experience as hurtful but it can be experienced by my son as a relief.

 

I haven't read it in a while (I just had it from the library) but I wonder if you would like the Brenda Smith Myles book? I saw her speak and I really liked her when I saw her.

 

I also have gotten advice that once someone is upset -- they aren't acting rationally. They aren't going to be able to act rationally until they calm down. So you can just manage things at that point and manage things in whatever way is safest and will not ramp things up. But it's easy to ramp things up and hard to do anything actively helpful.

 

So I think -- it is okay to accept this in the sense of -- it's not something you should best yourself over. You are looking for ways to help. I am all for strategies but if sometimes your daughter is upset and you know it's not really like her -- well it's not really like her. She needs to develop some better strategies, but it's NOT really like her.

[exercise_guru]

I have a friend who is a school teacher. She will say to her son " Here are some choices now show me with your choice. " Often the action of moving around to something new allows it to click for her son and he makes a choice as he is going into action. How did violin lesson go? did she bounce out of it and was she cooperative? Did lesson go better than you expected.   If she was that is a win.. Its an ugly win but still a win. It took me years to help my kids bounce out of something and go on.  I held my breath a few times on the way to music lessons because of the meltdown beforehand.  So many kids quit music lessons because it takes ongoing practice and staying power to build skill over time. My daughter has played the piano for 6 years and just now is glad I didn't let her quit all those times she said she hated it. 

 

Also if this is your oldest daughter get ready for a big transition. I found the jump from 11-14 to be a rollercoaster. 12-13 was an inexplicable amount of emotion and mental reasoning challenges. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by exercise_guru

[popmom]

I am late seeing this, but I got advice wrt my son that my presence can be stimulating and eye contact can be even more stimulating. So if you can safely leave her it is something to consider *if it is helpful.*. It's something that I would experience as hurtful but it can be experienced by my son as a relief.

 

I haven't read it in a while (I just had it from the library) but I wonder if you would like the Brenda Smith Myles book? I saw her speak and I really liked her when I saw her.

 

I also have gotten advice that once someone is upset -- they aren't acting rationally. They aren't going to be able to act rationally until they calm down. So you can just manage things at that point and manage things in whatever way is safest and will not ramp things up. But it's easy to ramp things up and hard to do anything actively helpful.

 

So I think -- it is okay to accept this in the sense of -- it's not something you should best yourself over. You are looking for ways to help. I am all for strategies but if sometimes your daughter is upset and you know it's not really like her -- well it's not really like her. She needs to develop some better strategies, but it's NOT really like her.

 

Brenda Myles was the speaker at the conference I mentioned. I'm sorry I missed it. I'll look up her book.

 

I actually have tried leaving the room when she's upset. I mean, I have to leave. I can't stay with her the whole time. It's just not practical. I'm not sure it made much difference when I left, but I get what you are saying about not being able to act rationally. 

 

I have a friend who is a school teacher. She will say to her son " Here are some choices now show me with your choice. " Often the action of moving around to something new allows it to click for her son and he makes a choice as he is going into action. How did violin lesson go? did she bounce out of it and was she cooperative? Did lesson go better than you expected.   If she was that is a win.. Its an ugly win but still a win. It took me years to help my kids bounce out of something and go on.  I held my breath a few times on the way to music lessons because of the meltdown beforehand.  So many kids quit music lessons because it takes ongoing practice and staying power to build skill over time. My daughter has played the piano for 6 years and just now is glad I didn't let her quit all those times she said she hated it. 

 

Also if this is your oldest daughter get ready for a big transition. I found the jump from 11-14 to be a rollercoaster. 12-13 was an inexplicable amount of emotion and mental reasoning challenges. 

 

Thanks for this. It is amazing how much better I feel knowing my kid is not the only one. I can totally relate when you say you held your breath on the way to music lessons. You said it took years--I'm okay with that. 

 

The violin lesson went well, so yes that required some action on her part and it got her out of her rut. 

 

She is my youngest. Been through the tween years with 3 before her, but I have a feeling it's going to be a different kind of rollercoaster with this one. I'm going to get outside help. The mother daughter dynamic is getting in the way of me helping her--or her being willing to be helped by me. 

 

Today has been a much better day--up until just a few minutes ago when she went to practice violin. New song = immediate frustration and tears. She gave up on it pretty quick, and I'm not going to push. At least she tried.

[exercise_guru]

Yes when my daughter gets a new song it's tough. I try to record the song on my phone so she can listen to it. I also do this for my son. I have the teacher play it sometimes if we are put of time she will email the song to me. I have them listen when they are relaxing. It takes the edge off. I too feel the pain of the preteen and the mother daughter dynamic. So sending encouragement.

 

If the lesson went well that's a big win. It's a roller-coaster but you are such a good mom focusing on the little things like this example to better understand your daughter.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[PeterPan]

Sounds like you need to do 5 point scale and some calming strategies. Look for our threads on mindfulness. You're trying Mighteor? Can't remember. It would help. If you're doing it, do it more.

[PeterPan]

There's a book We Can Mske Thus Bettter! That I like. Think about the concept and problem solving. But like Lecka says it's after she's calm.

[popmom]

Sounds like you need to do 5 point scale and some calming strategies. Look for our threads on mindfulness. You're trying Mighteor? Can't remember. It would help. If you're doing it, do it more.

 

 

There's a book We Can Mske Thus Bettter! That I like. Think about the concept and problem solving. But like Lecka says it's after she's calm.

 

Not doing Mighteor, but I'll look in to it. Thx for the recommendations.

[popmom]

holy crap! just watched the Mighteor promo video. That looks almost too good to be true! 

 

Haven't looked at the cost yet. I'm scared. Looks expensive.

[boscopup]

Interesting info! I have an HFA 11 year old boy. Getting a diagnosis earlier this year has helped a ton - understanding why he is behaving a certain way. I'll look into that book. He is excellent at problem solving in certain situations, such as math or when he and his brothers have run into a problem in daily life. But oh my goodness, he can't get his own clothes to save his life. Getting ready for church, I'll hear, "I need help!" He knows what clothes to wear, but if it's not in the drawer (because he's tossed stuff on the floor or put clean clothes in the dirty clothes basket because "it touched the floor"), he's lost. I usually send one of his brothers to help him because we're in a hurry. There are many instances in play with his brothers and his friends across the street that involve issues with problem solving (mainly what to do when they don't want to do what he wants to do and they want to do something like a sport, and he hates sports).

[PeterPan]

holy crap! just watched the Mighteor promo video. That looks almost too good to be true! 

 

Haven't looked at the cost yet. I'm scared. Looks expensive.

 

Zones20 code will get you a little off. If they're still doing promo pricing, it's actually a good deal. You get a small tablet, heart rate monitor, the software totally pre-installed, $250-ish, I forget. It's working directly on the interroception part of the brain, and will bring in mindfulness, calming strategies, self-awareness and self-monitoring, bonus working memory, focus, and handling distractions. Yes, it's literally as good as it looks. And it's a snap to implement. 

 

You can blow a ton of money on OT trying to do this stuff, or you can put on the heart rate monitor, use the software, and make progress surprisingly quickly for one fixed price. You can also set up user accounts on it for ALL your kids (and big kids, aka adults). If you got even ONE PIECE of progress it would be amazing, and more will be bonus. You're likely to see some things click in your kids as they use it. They're saying you only need to use it about 45 minutes a week for progress. You can be irregular. You can binge and do it 20-30 min several times a week. The point is that it's actually targeting the precise part of the brain that is affected in their self-awareness, so you're going to be making connections that help them realize how they feel. They can't use a calming strategy till they realize how they FEEL, kwim? And they'll learn calming strategies. And it will be fun.

 

There's farther that you can take it, sure. Getting materials like Zones of Regulation and pairing them with Mighteor would be very strong. Calming strategies are personal and people have to find their own. The software gives you a safe, controlled way to practice needing them and using them, over and over, without it being this whole big blow-up situation.

[PeterPan]

Interesting info! I have an HFA 11 year old boy. Getting a diagnosis earlier this year has helped a ton - understanding why he is behaving a certain way. I'll look into that book. He is excellent at problem solving in certain situations, such as math or when he and his brothers have run into a problem in daily life. But oh my goodness, he can't get his own clothes to save his life. Getting ready for church, I'll hear, "I need help!" He knows what clothes to wear, but if it's not in the drawer (because he's tossed stuff on the floor or put clean clothes in the dirty clothes basket because "it touched the floor"), he's lost. I usually send one of his brothers to help him because we're in a hurry. There are many instances in play with his brothers and his friends across the street that involve issues with problem solving (mainly what to do when they don't want to do what he wants to do and they want to do something like a sport, and he hates sports).

 

Total aside, but you might go to SocialThinking.com and see what they've got for problem solving. There's a Test of Problem Solving that an SLP or psych can run where they actually quantify it, but you want to move from doing it for him to teaching him the steps to stay calm and problem solve for himself. It's a hard burden for the sibling or cohabitant to live with if they have to problem solve for the affected person, kwim? It also affects their ability to live independently. I know you know this in theory, like oh yeah we'll get to that. You're right in the window before he becomes omniscient. Once he's omniscient (14/15), you might not be able to teach him much. :)

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Edited December 1, 2017 by PeterPan