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DIVE with Saxon or Teaching Textbooks for PreAlgebra


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#1 Reader411

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:09 PM

Math is not my strong suit and not my DS's either.  He needs to be taught from someone else.  :)  However, I'm not sure an online course will work for our schedules next year. 

 

Which of these would you recommend and why?

 

 

 

(cross-posted in Logic)



#2 texasmom33

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:34 PM

Having used both, I would say neither. :)

 

What did you use this year, and that would help answer?

 

But if you want a general online class recommendation for Pre-Algebra, I would go with Derek Owens if given the choice. It's asynchronous, so you could work it with your schedule as needed. 

http://www.derekowen..._prealgebra.php

 

Unless you have used Saxon for previous years and are happy with it, I wouldn't place a jr high kid in it if given an option. It's not an easy program, the repetition is really tough on some kids, and although Mr. Shorman is very nice, it's not the world's most engaging program if you want to stimulate an interest in math in your son. I am obviously biased by personal experience, but we tried two different classes with DIVE and neither was a success, although his new math program might be a different experience than Saxon was. 

 

My big issue with Teaching Textbooks is that it's easy for a kid to look like they are doing well in the program (because they will have high grades) and actually not be getting it. I have had it happen, and I have read more stories than I can count of other people here having it happen. By the time the parent figures it out, you're trying to dig your child out of a hole. Since you're saying math isn't your son's strong suit, I would look for a program that would give him as solid of a pre-algebra base as possible, and I don't TT provides that for the average to below average math student. 

 

I write all of the above as a mother of a constantly struggling math student who has many things I would do much differently if given the choice to start back in 7th grade!! Saxon and TT were two really big mistakes in our case. One right after the other. 

 

 


Edited by texasmom33, 06 March 2017 - 10:35 PM.

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#3 RootAnn

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:03 AM

DO (what she recommended) was the first thing that came to my mind.

There are a couple of other asynchronous (not live) options including Mr D math (there is an option to do a live class, but there is also total asynchronous) and TabletClass (different setup from Derek Owens and Mr D).

VideoText is another computer based option that works for some who don't need a lot of repetition but who like conceptual teaching.

Edited by RootAnn, 07 March 2017 - 04:07 AM.

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#4 peaceful isle

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:39 PM

What about Art Reed with Saxon? I plan on using his algebra 1/2 and algebra 2 next year with my girls next year. I have seen sample of the dive and teaching CDs and don't like them. I am really drawn in by art reeds teaching CDs. It's a reall teacher instead of just a white board.
I am also fond of math u see and his CDs, so maybe I just like a real person on the other end teaching. :)

Edited by peaceful isle, 07 March 2017 - 03:40 PM.

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#5 freesia

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:08 PM

And we have had success with both Saxon and TT. ( I do not use the self grading option, though, bc I want to see what they miss and sit with them to figure out why they miss it).

Although, Ds 16(now in Saxon Calculus) did fine with TT geometry and Alg 2, I would have had him do Saxon if I did it over. Why? Because I love the frequent tests and the fact that the tests don't test the lesson you just had, but reach back four lessons. TT spirals and has review every lesson, but tests right after a new lesson.

Dd doesn't like Saxon. DS likes it fine and liked TT.
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#6 Carol in Cal.

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:55 AM

Pre-algebra is hard because it has endless variations on each theme.

Adding positive numbers, negative numbers, fractions, decimals, complicated fractions.

Then subtracting, ditto.

Exponents.

Unit analysis. 

Etc. 

 

There are many, many sets of rules to remember.  It's an extremely broad set of material.

 

We used DIVE for Saxon 87, and that was good because it did not use the same examples or exact teaching material as the textbook did, so if DD needed two runs at something, the textbook and the DVDs were different enough to give two different slants on the same material.  Also, (KEY!), she hated math and it was better for our relationship if I did the remediation than if I did the primary daily instruction AND the remediation.  

 

But, every so often I had to stop her progress and summarize all of what had been learned so far; otherwise she would lose track of it.  And before I realized this, she got bogged down and we actually had to backtrack through some lessons that she had already covered to make sure that she really learned the material--I had missed seeing this because I was letting her correct her own work, and she wasn't counting unattempted problems as wrong.  (My fault for not checking, but wow, this was after years of Saxon working out just fine for us, and of her successfully correcting her own work.)  

 

So, based on my experience, you could argue that Saxon 87 required interventions and parental help that the earlier years did not.  Having said that, the continuous review was extraordinarily helpful to DD, who again hates math and lets it flow out of her head like water.  So for us, Saxon was critical, and the DIVE CDs were the best possible aid, but it wasn't a hands free parental program at the pre-algebra level.  YMMV.


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#7 reefgazer

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:29 PM

This would be my choice.  DD (9th grade, Algebra II) has been doing well with Saxon since 6th grade.

What about Art Reed with Saxon? I plan on using his algebra 1/2 and algebra 2 next year with my girls next year. I have seen sample of the dive and teaching CDs and don't like them. I am really drawn in by art reeds teaching CDs. It's a reall teacher instead of just a white board.
I am also fond of math u see and his CDs, so maybe I just like a real person on the other end teaching. :)

 



#8 8Arrows4theLord

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:24 PM

If your son has used Saxon in the past stick with it. If not it may be hard to jump in- use a placement test to see what book he should use.

My daughter switched to TT after having problems part way into Saxon Alg. 1. She finished 3 "books" of TT ( Alg.1, Geom., & Alg. 2) and wishes we had stuck with Saxon. She recently started Saxon Adv. math w/ Art Reed's DVDs and has learned so much! She likes how he's a real guy, not some sterilized perfect teacher, and says he explains the concepts well. Her SAT prep scores increased just from several weeks of using the Saxon book. She feels TT didn't cover enough material to prepare her well for the PSAT. If we had known about Art Reed's DVDs earlier, we probably wouldn't have made the switch to TT.

I have not heard many positive comments about the DIVE cds. 

If your son is not looking at college TT will give him the basics. If he is college bound- Saxon is hard, but he will be better prepared for the SAT. 

Hope our experience helps you decide. :001_smile:

If you haven't used Saxon before Sonlight.com has math placement tests you can print out for free under their math section.



#9 h2bh

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:21 PM

We had success with Derek Owens as well. The lectures are clear and he knows where students typically struggle and slows down at those points in the lectures. We got the self grade USB option which was cheaper. We like asynchronous math options as well and I don't enjoy teaching math so this worked beautifully. My dd is doing well with Alg 1 this year.

#10 FriedClams

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:55 AM

We love Saxon and I second the recommendation of Art Reed DVDs. So much more engaging and concise than DIVE. We've used them from 1/2 through advanced math with great success.

#11 momtofive

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 09:20 AM

We've also been using Saxon with Art Reed DVD's, and highly recommend that combo! ;)