Help us dig our way from unschooling to a logic stage work load

[rose]

I could use a little help here. We started out unschooling and when I realized that that was going to takes to a dead end I turned our ship and we've been trying to catch up since then. Both my 13yos are neuro-typical kids.

 

What I've been doing is I've been assigning them about a weeks worth of work and then when they finish it they get a day of free time (plus regular chores). The next day is then a chore day and then we're back to another week of work. Because they're motivated to get their free-time day this usually gets done in about 4 days. They're managing to do school work 3-4 hours per day. We don't do M-F because dh's work is all over the place and so this has been a more accommodating schedule. Here's what we've been doing per "week" (this is embarrassing - go easy on me please :blushing: ):

 

*Bible devotions and memory work with singing (including voice training) and some light music theory daily

*WWS1 - 4 lessons (we're currently on wk 15)

*MEP Y5 for one and Y6 for the other - about 5 pages each, sometimes I skip stuff depending on the child so then we get through more pages. (MEP is a little accelerated so this is more like grade 6 and 7)

*A chapter or so of Science reading from a 1950's public school text - no labs or any feed-back besides me asking some comprehension questions. I've been reading Crucibles out loud to them and I've assigned them some living books like Uncle Tungsten and Napoleon’s Buttons in the last few months. This isn't weekly though.

*Geography country study - one country per week, fill in a generic worksheet

*Typing- 1 hour per week

*R&S Grammar Y4 at a very accelerated pace - like 15-20 lessons/wk

*They read plenty of lit at about their expected reading level so I don't assign any. We talk through what they've read

*History- they have a pretty good knowledge base from read-alouds but I feel like we need to get into a little more meat

*Some weeks dh does a few hours of electronics and electrical physics with ds and I spend some time with dd teaching her to sew. Unfortunately this tends to eat into our other school time.

 

Obviously we're behind but I don't know exactly know how to move on from here. Just this week I wanted to have them write a summary of the history of Korea because they both floundered on the history of Korea on last week's worksheet. I realized though that they are just not able to do this yet. I reassigned them to doing an outline of the World Book encyclopedia’s history of Korea article. This was do-able. This frustrates me because I know that they're able understand the reading material but they don't have the writing skills yet (stupid unschooling philosophy!) to get their thoughts out.

 

How should I plan for them long term? What's next? I feel like I'm lacking some vision here. I don't want to just get a history and science textbook and then answer some questions every chapter. I want them to be able to explain what they've learned in written form. Ultimately, I want them to be able to understand anything they set their minds to, without me holding their hands, and then be able to teach it to others in written or verbal form. How do I accomplish this?

 

Some compounding factors are that we have a slough of littles that are always interrupting so any suggestions need to be fairly hands-off from me.

[AimeeM]

Can you elaborate regarding what you mean by "needs to be fairly hands-off from me"? Are you able to teach at all or are you looking for self-teaching materials and resources from which the kids can teach themselves? I might suggest that if you are needing the kids to learn from the materials themselves, without any direct teaching from you, you may need to invest in some materials that are kind of geared toward that. Perhaps IEW (with the SWI videos) for writing; a dvd based mathematics.

 

Your goals are admirable... but I can't imagine that it's easy for teenagers to go from unschooling to completely structured schooling... and, especially, if that form means no hand-holding when that may be just what they need at this point in the game. Unschooling wouldn't have worked for my teen, so I feel ya there... but neither would expecting her to learn how to learn things herself, with no teaching and hand-holding first (so, prior to expectations of independent learning).

 

I might suggest that your content subjects seem like little more than busy-work or study-slams. Meaning: read this, answer these questions, forget the material. Reading about a country and filling in a generic worksheet is going to do little to aid in content mastery (if that is your goal); same for reading from a generic science text and answering a few comprehension questions. I struggle with content subjects, so no judgement there :P

Edited October 25, 2016 by AimeeM

[Lori D.]

... We started out unschooling...  I turned our ship and we've been trying to catch up since then. Both my 13yos are neuro-typical kids...

 

...  I've been doing is I've been assigning them about a weeks worth of work and then when they finish it they get a day of free time (plus regular chores). The next day is then a chore day and then we're back to another week of work...

 

:hurray:  From your post, it sounds like you've got the first thing needed for turning this ship around to a new direction, and that is a regular schedule with specific goals. :) You've got some solid materials, and it sounds like they are working very well, with your students responding well and advancing quickly. And it sounds like you've got a great schedule that works very well for your family, so you're doing a good job of catching up!

 

One thing that may help you get caught up even more quickly (if that is needed or desirable) is to school year-round for the next few years. That doesn't mean you don't take vacations and holidays; it just means you don't take months-long summer breaks -- make your summer break just a few weeks long...

 

 

...How should I plan for them long term? What's next? I feel like I'm lacking some vision here...

 

JMO: The first thing is actually back up and get a very big picture/long range view:

 

What are the post-high school goals? Once you know what those goals are, then you can work backwards through what needs to happen in high school to be prepared for those post-high school goals -- which in turn helps you work backwards to now, to help you see what needs to happen now in order to help prepare for what your high school needs to look like. :)

 

So:

Is the long-term goal to leave an open door for the possibility of college (4-year university/degree)?

Is the long-term goal vocational-tech for hands-on training in a blue collar or skilled labor field?

Is the goal to land a job in a company that encourages working your way up, and provides on-the-job training?

Is it to enter a family business? Enter the military? Travel? Missions? Something else?

 

Each of these goals has a different set of specific academic goals that would need to be accomplished in your high school years. Very generally, a high school education tends to include things like this, which keep the doors open for being able to choose amongst these various post-high school options.

 

High School Skills/Courses:

 

- English: Writing -- solid skills; short/long papers; various types of Writing/real world Writing

(complete sentences, good use of vocabulary, solid paragraphs, clear expression of thought, logical development of ideas with supporting examples, etc.)

- English: Grammar -- used to support solid Writing

(correct sentence structure, subject-verb usage, capitalization/punctuation, proof-editing to be able to correct own mistakes, etc.)

- English: exposure to classic Literature

 

- Math: higher maths: Algebra, Geometry, Pre-Calculus, etc., which are built on foundational math

(add, subtract, multiply, divide, fractions, percents, decimals...)

- Math: options: Consumer Math/Personal Finance, Accounting, or Business Math for real-life applications

 

- Science: study of topics and application of scientific investigation through labs

(examples: Biology, Marine Biology, Environmental Science, Horticulture, Botany, Chemistry, Physics, Earth Science, Geology, Astronomy...)

 

- Social Studies: read, discuss, write about, make connections...

(examples of topics: American History (if you are in the U.S.), Economics, Government, World History/Geography, Political Science, Logic, Philosophy...)

 

- Foreign Language: vocabulary/grammar for beginning to read, write, speak a second language

 

- Fine Arts: exposure to either doing, or, history/appreciation/understanding of a fine art

(examples: visual arts such as drawing, painting, photography, filmmaking; or performing arts such as music, theater, dance; or digital arts such as animation or computer software; or studio arts such as pottery, sculpture, woodworking, metal working, jewelry making, stained glass...)

 

- Electives: exposure to new interests to be well-rounded, or, to pursue potential career area

(examples: Vocational-Tech courses; Computer; Health; PE; Bible/religious studies, Driver's Ed, Home Ec/Consumer Science...)

 

With your 13yos, if you feel they are not going to be ready for high school level work next year, and if you feel you'll need a little extra time overall to get them solidly on their feet for the future, you might consider doing a "bonus" year of middle school to give them time to get up to speed. LOTS of students graduate at age 19yo, so that would absolutely NOT be a problem to take that extra year.

 

But, also know that you absolutely do not have to go with a typical high school set-up if you have students who are not headed in a typical direction. But I would say that for ANY student, you want to make sure they have the following by the time they exit high school, just to succeed in real life, whatever they end up doing:

 

- solid reading and writing skills to be able to function on any job as needed

- solid math skills (up through Algebra 1), plus real-life Consumer Math/Personal Finance skills

- understanding of your country's history and governmental system in order to be a responsible, thinking citizen

- solid life skills (see Christine Fields' book Life Skills for Children), for functioning as an adult

- study skills, to be able to teach themselves whatever they need in life

- exposure to sciences, fine arts, foreign language, and electives, to enrich the mind and broaden their horizons

 

 

Some compounding factors are that we have a slough of littles that are always interrupting so any suggestions need to be fairly hands-off from me.

 

Many homeschool materials these days have a DVD teaching component, or are very parent-friendly with everything completely laid out for you, or even do the grading for you. For example, something like Switched on Schoolhouse has all subjects, with each course on computer CD with videos, readings, assignments, tests, and is self-grading. And it can be re-used for more than one student. Teaching Textbooks is a math program with DVD instruction, plus every problem is worked out on video to hold the student's hand.

 

Regularly watching documentaries on History and Science topics as a family and discussing can get everyone thinking and remembering material, and interested in exploring further on topics that spark special interest.

 

You might look into some of the many free online videos and tutorials (Khan Academy, for example), if your older students can self-teach. Or, if you can afford online classes, that will give your students outside accountability, plus a teacher to explain things and do grading for you.

 

Realistically, you are going to have to schedule regular weekly time to go over things with each of your students: to teach, mentor, discuss, answer questions, and hold them accountable. You might look up threads with ideas from moms of many to get ideas for how to streamline your days and maximize your time with the different age groups... What about hiring a "grandmother" or an older teen to come in for 2-3 hours on 2-3 days of the week to watch the littles while you work with the 13yos? Or to tutor the teens one-on-one while you run herd on the littles?

 

Honestly, your materials and schedule look solid to me for this year -- although, I'd see about slowly increasing the daily workload to about 5 hours a day (up from your 3-4 hours a day currently), so I would focus on keeping up the good catch-up pace, and along about March, post again specifically for you oldest 2 with your questions about what to do next... Just my thoughts. I know you'll get more great advice from others!

 

Again, encouraging you that you're doing great! Go at a steady pace that you all can keep up with so you don't burn out, and remember to celebrate regularly as you pass those mini-milestones! BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Lori D.

[MamaSprout]

Lori gave you some good advice. Just my thoughts-

I would consider next year 8th grade. Since so many homeschoolers do community college classes for junior/ senior year, they could finish with some credits.

 

First of all, work on work ethic. Start them with the idea of school being their job.

 

Language arts: WWS- keep it up. If they are getting this, they are not too far behind here. Just start the next book as you finish your current one. R&S- keep up your pace this year, next year, start them in R&S 7 and go through at normal pace, looking for mastery. Skip the writing parts since you are doing WWS. Do one a year through R&S10. For grade 12, maybe look at something like CLE Lit grades 10 or 12

 

History- Keep doing what you are doing this year, look at something like Memoria Press Geography III and documentaries for next year. There are some writing assignments in the MP Geo to get them started on writing in other subjects.

 

Science- Add in something like this to what you are already doing? Look at a physical science course for next year.

 

Math- Make sure they are rock-solid on their math facts. Xtra math is good for that. Maybe consider transitioning into an American math program. Maybe give them ADAM this year, with a goal of doing prealgebra next year? ADAM gives links to Khan Academy for topics the student missed. Seton has some Algebra readiness tests that give lesson numbers for Saxon for missed topics. Lots of people like TT, but there are a number of somewhat independent options. Again, go for mastery in math.

 

If you're able to do the above next year for 8th, they could start high school more-or-less on track. For the history and science in high school, you could look at Time4Learning or Silicon Valley High School for basic accountability (or local options if you have them), then add in documentaries, living books like you're already using, or some Great Courses (check your library including Overdrive). Eventually try some dual credit CC classes.

 

HTH!

 

 

[bolt.]

I think I would consider slowly accelerating the subjects you feel they are "behind" in: basically by increasing the usual week's assignment 15 to 25 percent once in awhile: then allowing time for that to become the norm, then increasing again.

 

Intelligent/typical children should work from their current level of knowledge, even if it's below their age/grade level, but they don't usually need to work through it at the measured pace that is designed for younger learners. They can often build themselves up to the ability to do new-but-easily-aquired material quickly. As they approach material that is for their age/grade level, the (normal) pacing (in the curriculum) will better match their abilities. (So, you should begin to decelerate at some point.)

 

I don't know WWS, but perhaps instead of 4 lessons weekly, you shift to expecting 5. Then, in a few months you shift to expecting 6.

 

Similarly for MEP: if 5 pages (more or less) is within their current 'I can do that quite easily' zone, perhaps a few weeks after you increment the WWS, you increment up to a 7 or 8 page target.

 

I suggest getting serious about the sciences. As good readers and interest-led learners, they will probably gobble up science units (from curricula or as unit studies, or as interest projects). This is an area where you can be a little unschooly; let them suggest topics, then you find resources. Provide good materials, expect rigorous study and brainstorm productive projects. Act as facilitator and evaluator. Consider buying science curriculum and/or multiple textbooks as options for them to choose their units from.

 

For your history and geography, I think some sort of "spine" or a scope-and-sequence plan, or a curriculum that guides both would be an advantage to you. Emphasize written output in response to history/geography by providing prompts instead of worksheets. Possibly integrate historical fiction or 'other countries' fiction pieces. (Unless you are doing a strategic world geography overview, I think I'd look for an alternative to your country-of-the-week plan. There are probably more intellectually stimulating approaches to social sciences that result in deeper understanding, or a better big-picture.)

 

And, I agree with others: documentaries are a great way to generate science or social studies interest. A good model can be 3 stages: documentary introduction; research well (meat); produce a 'project' (written or otherwise).

Edited October 25, 2016 by bolt.

[wapiti]

Lori gave you fantastic advice.  What is the big picture?  High school is literally around the corner and time is short.  Are they in 7th or 8th grade?

 

Math and language arts are the skill subjects that will give them a foundation for high school courses.  I wouldn't worry as much about content subjects except as they can be useful work for honing language skills.  Math for 13 y.o.s, I'd want a bare minimum of 1 hr per day x5 days per week and as Lori suggested, no longer-than-a-vacation breaks until they are caught up to grade level at least, depending on what the bigger, post-high school goals are, how open you want their doors to be.

Edited October 25, 2016 by wapiti

[rose]

Thank you everybody who has posted so far. :) I'm saving this thread. I just wanted to respond to a few things below.

 

Can you elaborate regarding what you mean by "needs to be fairly hands-off from me"? Are you able to teach at all or are you looking for self-teaching materials and resources from which the kids can teach themselves? I might suggest that if you are needing the kids to learn from the materials themselves, without any direct teaching from you, you may need to invest in some materials that are kind of geared toward that. Perhaps IEW (with the SWI videos) for writing; a dvd based mathematics.

 

Your goals are admirable... but I can't imagine that it's easy for teenagers to go from unschooling to completely structured schooling... and, especially, if that form means no hand-holding when that may be just what they need at this point in the game. Unschooling wouldn't have worked for my teen, so I feel ya there... but neither would expecting her to learn how to learn things herself, with no teaching and hand-holding first (so, prior to expectations of independent learning).

 

I might suggest that your content subjects seem like little more than busy-work or study-slams. Meaning: read this, answer these questions, forget the material. Reading about a country and filling in a generic worksheet is going to do little to aid in content mastery (if that is your goal); same for reading from a generic science text and answering a few comprehension questions. I struggle with content subjects, so no judgement there :p

 

I can do some with them. With MEP I have them take turns supervising the the littles so that I can teach. It's just that most teaching means that I need to either have one babysit, we do it in their evenings or they try to learn with distraction every few minutes. If need be we can make one those options work. If it's avoidable it's better though.

 

 

Lori gave you some good advice. Just my thoughts-

I would consider next year 8th grade. Since so many homeschoolers do community college classes for junior/ senior year, they could finish with some credits.

 

First of all, work on work ethic. Start them with the idea of school being their job.

 

Language arts: WWS- keep it up. If they are getting this, they are not too far behind here. Just start the next book as you finish your current one. R&S- keep up your pace this year, next year, start them in R&S 7 and go through at normal pace, looking for mastery. Skip the writing parts since you are doing WWS. Do one a year through R&S10. For grade 12, maybe look at something like CLE Lit grades 10 or 12

 

Can I really skip R&S 5 and 6? That would be so good!

 

History- Keep doing what you are doing this year, look at something like Memoria Press Geography III and documentaries for next year. There are some writing assignments in the MP Geo to get them started on writing in other subjects.

 

Is this US centric? We're in Canada needing something global.

 

Science- Add in something like this to what you are already doing? Look at a physical science course for next year.

 

Math- Make sure they are rock-solid on their math facts. Xtra math is good for that. Maybe consider transitioning into an American math program. Maybe give them ADAM this year, with a goal of doing prealgebra next year? ADAM gives links to Khan Academy for topics the student missed. Seton has some Algebra readiness tests that give lesson numbers for Saxon for missed topics. Lots of people like TT, but there are a number of somewhat independent options. Again, go for mastery in math.

 

As I mentioned above, we're in Canada so that's why we're using MEP. It's also a really good curriculum. Once we get through year 6 it can be more hands-off.

 

If you're able to do the above next year for 8th, they could start high school more-or-less on track. For the history and science in high school, you could look at Time4Learning or Silicon Valley High School for basic accountability (or local options if you have them), then add in documentaries, living books like you're already using, or some Great Courses (check your library including Overdrive). Eventually try some dual credit CC classes.

 

HTH!

 

 

I think I would consider slowly accelerating the subjects you feel they are "behind" in: basically by increasing the usual week's assignment 15 to 25 percent once in awhile: then allowing time for that to become the norm, then increasing again.

Intelligent/typical children should work from their current level of knowledge, even if it's below their age/grade level, but they don't usually need to work through it at the measured pace that is designed for younger learners. They can often build themselves up to the ability to do new-but-easily-aquired material quickly. As they approach material that is for their age/grade level, the (normal) pacing (in the curriculum) will better match their abilities. (So, you should begin to decelerate at some point.)

I don't know WWS, but perhaps instead of 4 lessons weekly, you shift to expecting 5. Then, in a few months you shift to expecting 6.

Similarly for MEP: if 5 pages (more or less) is within their current 'I can do that quite easily' zone, perhaps a few weeks after you increment the WWS, you increment up to a 7 or 8 page target.

I suggest getting serious about the sciences. As good readers and interest-led learners, they will probably gobble up science units (from curricula or as unit studies, or as interest projects). This is an area where you can be a little unschooly; let them suggest topics, then you find resources. Provide good materials, expect rigorous study and brainstorm productive projects. Act as facilitator and evaluator. Consider buying science curriculum and/or multiple textbooks as options for them to choose their units from.

 

I like this idea. I'm going to have to explore more what this could look like in our family.

For your history and geography, I think some sort of "spine" or a scope-and-sequence plan, or a curriculum that guides both would be an advantage to you. Emphasize written output in response to history/geography by providing prompts instead of worksheets. Possibly integrate historical fiction or 'other countries' fiction pieces. (Unless you are doing a strategic world geography overview, I think I'd look for an alternative to your country-of-the-week plan. There are probably more intellectually stimulating approaches to social sciences that result in deeper understanding, or a better big-picture.)

 

This is exactly what I'm hoping to foster. Their schooling isn't stimulating them nearly as much as their free reading. Can you suggest some prompts for writing that could get me started?

And, I agree with others: documentaries are a great way to generate science or social studies interest. A good model can be 3 stages: documentary introduction; research well (meat); produce a 'project' (written or otherwise).

 

[rose]

Lori gave you fantastic advice.  What is the big picture?  High school is literally around the corner and time is short.  Are they in 7th or 8th grade?

 

Math and language arts are the skill subjects that will give them a foundation for high school courses.  I wouldn't worry as much about content subjects except as they can be useful work for honing language skills.  Math for 13 y.o.s, I'd want a bare minimum of 1 hr per day x5 days per week and as Lori suggested, no longer-than-a-vacation breaks until they are caught up to grade level at least, depending on what the bigger, post-high school goals are, how open you want their doors to be.

 

By birthday my dd would be in 9th and my ds would be in 8th. Thankfully we don't have any requirements in our state so I won't get in trouble this way.

 

I think that it's time to ramp up the math work.

 

For after highschool, I expect that my dd will probably do mission work and possibly midwifery or nursing. For my ds I expect that he will go into a trade. He's very mechanically inclined. He's also very physical and desk job as an engineer would do him in.

[MamaSprout]

To answer your questions- R&S 7 doesn't assume a lot of knowledge and SWB suggests it as an entry point for those with no grammar in WTM.

 

If you are not in the US, then don't fell obligated to be on the US track in math- however, make sure your dc are really getting MEP. We used it, and it's easy to gloss over things without understanding.

 

Other than an option review of US states and capitals, MP Geography is global, meant to be a prep for high school history.

[wapiti]

Thinking some more, with your time constraints, this is a good juncture to evaluate whether it makes sense for you to homeschool high school and what the options might be for how you personally can manage that, especially for 9th/10th grades, before community college courses might be available to meet their needs.  Part of such an evaluation would include comparing available alternatives, such as B&M school.  In other words, if you haven't done so already, start reading and posting questions on the high school board.  Not to heap pressure upon pressure on you, but it's time to begin learning about the possible paths.

 

By birthday my dd would be in 9th and my ds would be in 8th. Thankfully we don't have any requirements in our state so I won't get in trouble this way.

 

I think that it's time to ramp up the math work.

 

For after highschool, I expect that my dd will probably do mission work and possibly midwifery or nursing. For my ds I expect that he will go into a trade. He's very mechanically inclined. He's also very physical and desk job as an engineer would do him in.

 

How would your dd be in 9th if she's only 13?  A very late cutoff?  In most states the cutoff is around Sept 1 though there are variations.  Probably they'd be in 8th and 7th in most states.

 

Midwifery and nursing involve college degrees, so I'd consider her college-bound assuming there is no issue with ability.  

 

I have no advice on a trade path except that I would have door-closing concerns lurking in the back of my mind.  It's worth exploring what the minimum high school graduation requirements are for getting into various trades (I have no idea).

 

Just to keep in mind as a rule of thumb, grade level math for 9th would be algebra 1.

[justasque]

 

For after highschool, I expect that my dd will probably do mission work and possibly midwifery or nursing. For my ds I expect that he will go into a trade. He's very mechanically inclined. He's also very physical and desk job as an engineer would do him in.

 

I would then focus on math and science, plus decent writing skills.  For kids headed in those directions, the details of history and literature are less important than the skills of writing and critical thinking that can come from a good curriculum for these subjects.

[bolt.]

I didn't know you are in Canada!

 

I've been creating a plan for my DD (currently grade 6) to homeschool 7, 8, and 9, with an eye on re-entry into grade 10 for (Canadian, my locality) high school.

 

For social studies, I suggest you try out "Canada, a People's History" documentary series (DVDs at libraries) complete with study guides online. Unless you have already done Canadian history and geography, this is usually what students that age are working on. It works well with the documentary-research-results model (if you like that idea).

 

If you want to do a global year, you need to pick a few countries and study them in depth. You will want at least one of them to be a country that has dealt with issues of colonialization and conflict, and one that has touch points around issues of unusual economic or political systems. It's important to think "issues" not "data" -- critical thinking skills and the ability to be 'insightful' (in a juvenile way) is going to be expected if they go into a school-based high school experience.

[rose]

Thinking some more, with your time constraints, this is a good juncture to evaluate whether it makes sense for you to homeschool high school and what the options might be for how you personally can manage that, especially for 9th/10th grades, before community college courses might be available to meet their needs.  Part of such an evaluation would include comparing available alternatives, such as B&M school.  In other words, if you haven't done so already, start reading and posting questions on the high school board.  Not to heap pressure upon pressure on you, but it's time to begin learning about the possible paths.

 

 

How would your dd be in 9th if she's only 13?  A very late cutoff?  In most states the cutoff is around Sept 1 though there are variations.  Probably they'd be in 8th and 7th in most states.

 

Midwifery and nursing involve college degrees, so I'd consider her college-bound assuming there is no issue with ability.  

 

I have no advice on a trade path except that I would have door-closing concerns lurking in the back of my mind.  It's worth exploring what the minimum high school graduation requirements are for getting into various trades (I have no idea).

 

Just to keep in mind as a rule of thumb, grade level math for 9th would be algebra 1.

 

In BC, cutoff is December 31. Her bday is in November.

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Rose M

[Lori D.]

It looks like you are in BC Canada? I assumed that and researched/linked accordingly. ? Here's one example of "planning backwards" to help develop a long-range vision and plan:

1. What are the post-high school goals?
You mentioned mechanical/trades, and midwifery/nursing or missions. In order to get into the programs that train you for these careers, a student needs to complete specific high school level coursework. From just a superficial, super quick search, from what I can tell, in Canada, the following is required for these career areas of interest:

To get education and training towards a certificate in a skilled trade, depending on the skilled trade a student needs to have passed grade 11 and/or grade 12 levels of work in order to be eligible for admission to the schools with trade training. See the trade training programs and services website. If DS wants more specialized training, it might require a college degree, which in turn would require a high school diploma for admissions to the college. So if DS is already going to need specific high school coursework up through the grade 11/12 level, it might be very worthwhile to go the extra mile and have him complete the high school diploma so he has what is required for whatever training/education he needs or wants later in life.

Midwives train at one of 7 educational programs in Canada; it is a 4-year program. Students must meet admission requirements, which include a high school diploma, which means jumping the required hoops of completing certain classes in grades 10-12 to be eligible for a diploma...

Nurses must have a bachelor's degree in nursing to practice in BC (see the College of Registered Nurses of British Columbia), which requires a high school diploma for admission to a university nursing program, which means jumping the required hoops of completing certain classes in grades 10-12 to be eligible for a diploma...

Many missions groups require a college degree, and to meet college entrance requirements means having a high school diploma, which means jumping the required hoops of completing certain classes in grades 10-12 to be eligible for a diploma...
 

2. What does this mean for high school?
So, knowing that high school subjects up into the grade 11/12 level, and possibility a high school diploma will be required by one or both of your 13yos, the next step in working backwards is to find out what high school would need to "look like". Some resources:

high school graduation requirements for BC
BC policies for homeschooling high school
BC homeschool group based in Victoria -- even in you are not in that area, you may find the articles on homeschooling high school and planning for beyond high school to be helpful

A previous poster mentioned perhaps having your older child attend a local high school starting in 10th grade. That might be something to look into, and see if, esp. for your DD, that would best prepare her academically for her post-high school goals.

Or, if it best meets needs/goals for you to do grades 10-12 at home, very broadly, it looks like you'll need to cover courses in:

- Language Arts (which appears to include both English/Writing and Foreign Languages)
- Math (which, depending on what field the student is interested in as a career, appears to include traditional higher maths such as Algebra and Pre-Calculus, but also things like Accounting, Business Math, and Personal Finance)
- Science (to support DD's possibly medically-related career, that would include things like: Biology, Anatomy & Physiology, Chemistry, and advanced Biology and Chemistry)
- Social Studies (includes First Peoples studies)
- Fine Arts or Applied Skills (Applied Skills appears to be skilled trade work or Vocational-Tech studies)
- PE
- Planning (which appears to be Career Exploration)

There are also some specific additional Graduation requirements:
- Graduation Transitions (which appears to be coursework in Health, hours of community volunteering, and independent study/research in Personal & Career Goals Exploration)
- completion of several grade 12 level courses (additional to the courses required in the list above)
 

3. What does this mean for this year and next year (pre-high school)?
Knowing that high school level work will be needed, with your students either doing high school in a traditional school or at home, the focus right now is going to need to be on catching up and being at-grade level for:

- math (solid in foundational math skills up through Pre-Algebra to be prepared for high school level work)
- writing (solid in sentences, grammar, punctuation; complete paragraphs; multi-paragraph papers; multi-page papers)
- reading (read, absorb, understand both Literature/classics and textbooks)
- study skills (time management skills; organizational skills; how to read/learn from textbooks; test-taking skills; memorization skills; note-taking skills from textbooks and from lectures; etc.)
- touch typing and basic computer skills (ability to research online; create a simple power-point presentation; use of word-processing program and spreadsheet program; etc.) 
- science (facts, processes, scientific inquiry; watch lab demonstrations; do lab experiments with lab reports)

For Social Studies, your children can watch documentaries and use that area (as well as Science) for practicing reading and absorb content, or do some of their writing about what they are learning in those areas.

For Fine Arts, PE, and "Electives" (the great life skills and skills of personal interest to your children), you can work those into the end of the day and end of the week as rewards and as mental breaks, after completing core subjects.

Since your 5 younger children are all pre-school aged, this is the year to completely focus as much time and energy on the 13yos to get them up to speed and not worry about any formal academics with the youngers. Time is running out for the older children, and the younger children will take no harm from delaying formal academics for this year. Next year you can start folding in the oldest child of the younger set of DC into a short amount of formal school, and it won't take more than an hour or so of your time. ?
 

On 10/25/2016 at 8:48 AM, Rose M said:

By birthday my dd would be in 9th and my ds would be in 8th...

Can you bump this back a year, and call this current year 8th for DD and 7th for DS? Or would that prevent DD from still having the option of attending a traditional school if needed?

Esp. if DD wants to go into ANY kind of medically related field, she's going to need strong math and science skills. Also, many missions groups require a college degree as a pre-requisite to going and serving, as missionaries need to learn language/linguistics and have a strong understanding of emergency medicine, as well as be strong self-learners because of all the "unknowns" that get thrown at the missionary.

If you are legally required to call this year 9th grade for DD, then she's fast running out of time to be up to speed to start next year (10th grade) and be able to complete, the math and science she'll need for a high school diploma that will allow her to then go on and get the training and education required as a midwife, nurse, or missionary. For the medical areas, she's going to need to go into 10th ready and solid to do at least Algebra 1 level math, and Biology for science.

Wishing you all the best in your homeschool journey this year, and as you plan for the future. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Lori D.

[rose]

Lori,

Thank you for your research. I really appreciate your effort. Through one of your links I found this option: http://homelearningvictoria.blogspot.ca/2010/07/getting-dogwood-without-high-school.html . It looks like as long as I can teach them enough to pass the community college entrance placement examinations (they're approximately a grade 10 level) then they should be able to use the classes that they take through the college to satisfy the requirements for a adult highschool diploma once they're 19. I think that the government must do this so that adults that want a highschool diploma aren't trying to do PE or electives formally. This isn't a GED and it's as good as a regular diploma for university admission. I definitely want aim higher than this though.

 

I also can definitely call my dc grade 7 & 8. No one is checking on me. My understanding is that as soon as they're 16 and ready for the college tests they can write them and go through the college to get any upper level highschool classes that they've not covered.

[Lori D.]

On 10/25/2016 at 7:40 PM, Rose M said:

Lori,

Thank you for your research. I really appreciate your effort. Through one of your links I found this option: http://homelearningvictoria.blogspot.ca/2010/07/getting-dogwood-without-high-school.html . It looks like as long as I can teach them enough to pass the community college entrance placement examinations (they're approximately a grade 10 level) then they should be able to use the classes that they take through the college to satisfy the requirements for a adult highschool diploma once they're 19. I think that the government must do this so that adults that want a highschool diploma aren't trying to do PE or electives formally. This isn't a GED and it's as good as a regular diploma for university admission. I definitely want aim higher than this though.

I also can definitely call my dc grade 7 & 8. No one is checking on me. My understanding is that as soon as they're 16 and ready for the college tests they can write them and go through the college to get any upper level highschool classes that they've not covered.

Yes, we have a similar dual credit / dual enrollment type of program here in the U.S. The big thing to remember here is that these courses are college level, not high school level -- so higher level of rigor, and the courses move at a faster pace. So your high school student will really need to be solid with reading, writing, math, and study skills to succeed when you start with these courses. That should give you some specific goals to work towards in the next few years. ?

At some point, maybe this coming spring or summer, you might want to post on the WTM high school board for help with ideas for strengthening any remaining weak areas, suggestions for prepping for high school, and advice for skills needed for taking college level courses while still in high school.

You might also find some curriculum ideas that are a fit, esp. for your DS who may be headed towards skilled trade occupations, on the Blue Collar Homeschool website created by a WTM member.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Lori D.

[Sahamamama2]

I could use a little help here. We started out unschooling and when I realized that that was going to takes to a dead end I turned our ship and we've been trying to catch up since then. Both my 13yos are neuro-typical kids.

 

What I've been doing is I've been assigning them about a weeks worth of work and then when they finish it they get a day of free time (plus regular chores). The next day is then a chore day and then we're back to another week of work. Because they're motivated to get their free-time day this usually gets done in about 4 days. They're managing to do school work 3-4 hours per day. We don't do M-F because dh's work is all over the place and so this has been a more accommodating schedule.

 

Rose, this sounds good to me. My husband's schedule is the same, and we do pretty much the same routine -- school, school, school, school, free time, chore/errand catch-up day. We all do certain chores every day, but others are more weekly. IMO, it's just as important to learn to "run the ship" as it is to "climb Parnassus." We often do school work on Saturday (when he's gone; he travels), so we can have at least a part of a day with him when he comes home. Our "Saturday" is usually on "Wednesday." LOL. 

 

Here's what we've been doing per "week" (this is embarrassing - go easy on me please :blushing: ):

 

*Bible devotions and memory work with singing (including voice training) and some light music theory daily

 

That's about what we do, too:

Bible lessons (we're using CLE Bible 400 across the year)

Bible memory work (from their church midweek)

Hymns & worship

Music theory (my girls are all in a children's choir; my mother is teaching them piano)

 

*WWS1 - 4 lessons (we're currently on wk 15)

My 6th grader is working through WWS 1 at half-pace (more or less?). I think we're up to Week 19? But we don't always do four lessons each week. Some of those lessons are two-day ventures, IMO. There is no rush. Those lessons are challenging, and you have two students going through them. I am not really looking forward to the day when my twins :willy_nilly:  :willy_nilly: start WWS 1, so.... you have my empathy. Honestly, slow and steady wins the race, I think, with composition. Just be as consistent as you can be, and -- over time -- your kids will be LIGHT YEARS ahead of their peers in composition. 

 

*MEP Y5 for one and Y6 for the other - about 5 pages each, sometimes I skip stuff depending on the child so then we get through more pages. (MEP is a little accelerated so this is more like grade 6 and 7)

 

So you're doing Math consistently... I think that's fine.

 

*A chapter or so of Science reading from a 1950's public school text - no labs or any feed-back besides me asking some comprehension questions. I've been reading Crucibles out loud to them and I've assigned them some living books like Uncle Tungsten and Napoleon’s Buttons in the last few months. This isn't weekly though.

 

Okay, Science might need some help. Note to self: Beef up Science.

 

*Geography country study - one country per week, fill in a generic worksheet

 

Sounds good.

 

*Typing- 1 hour per week

 

That's about right.

 

*R&S Grammar Y4 at a very accelerated pace - like 15-20 lessons/wk

 

Sounds good.

 

*They read plenty of lit at about their expected reading level so I don't assign any. We talk through what they've read

 

Literature -- At some point, you may want to assign them some reading that they wouldn't ordinarily choose for themselves, but if they're both avid readers, and you discuss what they've read, I think that's fine for now.

 

*History- they have a pretty good knowledge base from read-alouds but I feel like we need to get into a little more meat

 

History -- Assigned Independent Reading? Notebook pages? Or two one-page reports each month? At this stage, they probably should be producing some form of response/output.

 

*Some weeks dh does a few hours of electronics and electrical physics with ds and I spend some time with dd teaching her to sew. Unfortunately this tends to eat into our other school time.

 

I don't think it is unfortunate, I think it is wonderful for you, as parents, to be able to spend time sharing what you know with your children. That's a good thing. They will forget the worksheets and lessons. They will remember the time you spent with them. PRICELESS.

 

Obviously we're behind but I don't know exactly know how to move on from here. Just this week I wanted to have them write a summary of the history of Korea because they both floundered on the history of Korea on last week's worksheet. I realized though that they are just not able to do this yet. I reassigned them to doing an outline of the World Book encyclopedia’s history of Korea article. This was do-able. This frustrates me because I know that they're able understand the reading material but they don't have the writing skills yet (stupid unschooling philosophy!) to get their thoughts out.

 

How should I plan for them long term? What's next? I feel like I'm lacking some vision here. I don't want to just get a history and science textbook and then answer some questions every chapter. I want them to be able to explain what they've learned in written form. Ultimately, I want them to be able to understand anything they set their minds to, without me holding their hands, and then be able to teach it to others in written or verbal form. How do I accomplish this?

 

Some compounding factors are that we have a slough of littles that are always interrupting so any suggestions need to be fairly hands-off from me.

 

I have to get our day started, but I want to come back to this (I have an idea). I'll PM you.

 

:grouphug:  Be encouraged. I don't think you're failing them! If you're working on Math, Composition, Grammar, and Bible consistently; and building General Knowledge in various ways; and building practical skills (chores, cooking, sewing, electronics); and they get healthy meals, clean clothes, and some form of exercise; and your little ones are safe and loved -- then you do have your bases covered. :grouphug:

 

One more thought before I go -- WWS is tough, IMO, but worth the work. My daughter (Sugar Lump) went through WWE 1-3, but she still at times needs me to break it down and work with her, or she could become frustrated (it's happened). I study the assignments ahead of time, and provide the support I think she'll need to "get" the assignment. It has been rewarding to see her confidence grow as she gains specific skills and concepts. Stick with it. If necessary, back up to WWE 4 (or alternate weeks between WWS 1 and WWE 4), and their writing skills will grow. HTH.

[Sahamamama2]

PM'ed you. HTH.

[...................]

i didn't take the time to read all the previous posts (sorry) but I would say that I would cut out everything except 3R's until they are caught up.  I would definitely not worry about BIble, History, Science, etc!

 

I would also use a VERY standard curriculum in which you can easily gauge and measure progress.  Such as CLE, ACE, Abeka, or something like that.  Preferably, something with workbooks so that it is cut and dry for your kids.  

 

I would school every Saturday and round-the-year but give breaks such as Christmas, Easter and one week in summer.  I would not increase the pace, too much because it takes time for the brain to absorb the material.  If you move too fast their brains cannot absorb it properly.

 

I would focus on handwriting, grammar, spelling, math, reading, and that's it.  

 

My dd is catching up in spelling right now and this is what we are doing, using ACE (she is definitely a struggling and maybe not even neuro-typical speller, and did two years of remedial spelling as well.  She is in 7th grade doing one extra page of Spelling per day of 4th grade ACE, as well as Spelling on days off. ...she is improving and not overwhelmed.)

 

 

[...................]

PS as a committed Christian parent, I think your heart is right to include BIble but I would do it in a very natural way such as read a Psalm and Proverb every day at dinner table, and let that be it.  :)  Just comment/explain as needed.

[luuknam]

i didn't take the time to read all the previous posts (sorry) but I would say that I would cut out everything except 3R's until they are caught up.  I would definitely not worry about BIble, History, Science, etc!

 

They're not completely illiterate. If they didn't know their ABCs and couldn't add 1+1, then I might agree, but they're way past that, based on the OP. There's only so much 3Rs you can do in a day anyway - after a certain point, your brain just becomes too fried.

 

Anyway, since it's been about two months, how are things going, Rose?

[Julie Smith]

For typing once they know how to type, and can type at about 15 words a minute I would buy them the game Ephistory. It is a great looking and fun typing game. It doesn't teach typing, but it works on improving speed.

[luuknam]

For typing once they know how to type, and can type at about 15 words a minute I would buy them the game Ephistory. It is a great looking and fun typing game. It doesn't teach typing, but it works on improving speed.

 

I assume it's this (without an 'h'):

 

http://www.epistorygame.com/

[Julie Smith]

I assume it's this (without an 'h'):

 

http://www.epistorygame.com/

 

yes, sorry. 

[ZeldaRules]

I think I would consider slowly accelerating the subjects you feel they are "behind" in: basically by increasing the usual week's assignment 15 to 25 percent once in awhile: then allowing time for that to become the norm, then increasing again.

 

Intelligent/typical children should work from their current level of knowledge, even if it's below their age/grade level, but they don't usually need to work through it at the measured pace that is designed for younger learners. They can often build themselves up to the ability to do new-but-easily-aquired material quickly. As they approach material that is for their age/grade level, the (normal) pacing (in the curriculum) will better match their abilities. (So, you should begin to decelerate at some point.)

 

I don't know WWS, but perhaps instead of 4 lessons weekly, you shift to expecting 5. Then, in a few months you shift to expecting 6.

 

Similarly for MEP: if 5 pages (more or less) is within their current 'I can do that quite easily' zone, perhaps a few weeks after you increment the WWS, you increment up to a 7 or 8 page target.

 

I suggest getting serious about the sciences. As good readers and interest-led learners, they will probably gobble up science units (from curricula or as unit studies, or as interest projects). This is an area where you can be a little unschooly; let them suggest topics, then you find resources. Provide good materials, expect rigorous study and brainstorm productive projects. Act as facilitator and evaluator. Consider buying science curriculum and/or multiple textbooks as options for them to choose their units from.

 

For your history and geography, I think some sort of "spine" or a scope-and-sequence plan, or a curriculum that guides both would be an advantage to you. Emphasize written output in response to history/geography by providing prompts instead of worksheets. Possibly integrate historical fiction or 'other countries' fiction pieces. (Unless you are doing a strategic world geography overview, I think I'd look for an alternative to your country-of-the-week plan. There are probably more intellectually stimulating approaches to social sciences that result in deeper understanding, or a better big-picture.)

 

And, I agree with others: documentaries are a great way to generate science or social studies interest. A good model can be 3 stages: documentary introduction; research well (meat); produce a 'project' (written or otherwise).

WWS is meant to be a 4-5 day a week program. I wouldn't amp it up. It's an intense program as is. I did WWS 1 with my son last year and quit at week 12 because it got more challenging and he needed to step back to get a grasp on mastering a paragraph at a time. We started using IEW again. It's helped create great structure for a basic paragraph. I used the Fables IEW book. You get the teacher manual ebook free wth that IEW book. Now I'm using Writing in Residence, which is a writing and grammar curriculum in one. So far I like it, but we are only on lesson 2. Each lesson section takes a week of activities.

 

It does sound like you need to amp up their math, especially if your daughter wants to go into nursing.

 

Vicki

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Sahamamama2]

WWS is meant to be a 4-5 day a week program. I wouldn't amp it up. It's an intense program as is. I did WWS 1 with my son last year and quit at week 12 because it got more challenging and he needed to step back to get a grasp on mastering a paragraph at a time. We started using IEW again. It's helped create great structure for a basic paragraph. I used the Fables IEW book. You get the teacher manual ebook free wth that IEW book. Now I'm using Writing in Residence, which is a writing and grammar curriculum in one. So far I like it, but we are only on lesson 2. Each lesson section takes a week of activities.

 

It does sound like you need to amp up their math, especially if your daughter wants to go into nursing.

 

Vicki

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Yes, WWS 1 is intense (IMO). Last year for 5th grade with my oldest, we only worked through one "week" per month, over ten months, and then did two more "weeks" over the summer -- so we finished a total of 12 "weeks" in a year. Believe me, along with all the other writing she had to do in other things, that was enough. This year for 6th grade, it's going at a different pace -- two or three "weeks" per month -- but she can manage this pace at this point. I wouldn't want to start with it. That is to say, I wouldn't take the "week" designation as meaning it has to be done in an actual week, KWIM? Now, yes, we can. But last year? No way.

 

Next year for 5th grade with my twins, we're planning on going about it the same way, just moving through 10-12 "weeks" of WWS 1, finishing up the following year. HTH.

[rose]

Anyway, since it's been about two months, how are things going, Rose?

 

We're doing well. I've been trying to just keep plodding along. I added some history documentaries to our evenings to add some educational material to their downtime. Soon I'm going to give them some short, history based, writing assignments. I've been trying to press the math a little more. I'm still unsure where to go with science. I was encouraged earlier this week when my ds said that he finds it much easier to complete a writing assignment now then he did only a few months ago because of all the practice that he's doing.

 

WWS1 is not so bad for us. I think that we're taking about 1.5 weeks to complete a "week". They are really making strides. Their writing is still immature but it's coming along. I actually appreciate how much it expects of them because it keeps the assignments challenging and engaging. The copia lessons have been a little much for us because of the lack of grammar background but I've been able to supplement them with some simpler assignments on the same topics from the internet.

 

[Lori D.]

On 1/10/2017 at 10:19 PM, Rose M said:

We're doing well. I've been trying to just keep plodding along. I added some history documentaries to our evenings to add some educational material to their downtime. Soon I'm going to give them some short, history based, writing assignments. I've been trying to press the math a little more. I'm still unsure where to go with science. I was encouraged earlier this week when my ds said that he finds it much easier to complete a writing assignment now then he did only a few months ago because of all the practice that he's doing.

WWS1 is not so bad for us. I think that we're taking about 1.5 weeks to complete a "week". They are really making strides. Their writing is still immature but it's coming along. I actually appreciate how much it expects of them because it keeps the assignments challenging and engaging. The copia lessons have been a little much for us because of the lack of grammar background but I've been able to supplement them with some simpler assignments on the same topics from the internet.

Good for you guys! ? You've done the hardest thing, which is to get rolling again from a virtual stand-still, and it sounds like you are slowly picking up some momentum. Yea!
 

On 1/10/2017 at 10:19 PM, Rose M said:

... I'm still unsure where to go with science...

While I think the Science 101 programs are too weak to be full-fledged high school programs, they might be ideal for you right now with 13yos as a first formal exposure that is easy to do because they are DVD video lessons, and then you add in some readings. The program is also Christian-based, which I believe would be a fit for your family? I'd suggest starting with the Biology 101 program. These are available through a number of sellers, including Amazon (which looks like they ship to Canada).

Science 101 series website -- Biology 101, Chemistry 101, Physics 101

A good add-on/go-along for Biology 101 might be R.E.A.L. Science Odyssey: Biology (level 2). While it's designed for grades 4-8, it is meant to be an independent program (short readings, answer questions, do short labs), and it would be a gentle pace for your students. These are available as print or an e-book download, so that would help avoid shipping to Canada.

My first choice for you would be Rainbow Science, which is a 2-year 7th-8th grade program (can be done at double-pace as a 1-year 9th grade program, but. I don't think you need to jump in at that pace right now). It is a gentle pace and would be very easy to get into a regular schedule of doing it 2x/week. Rainbow Science is complete (includes all equipment and supplies), it is independent (written to the student) and covers Physics and Chemistry topics (year 1), and Biology plus a few general science and weather topics (year 2). It is also Christian-based. See samples. The big downside is cost -- about $300 for 2 students, although that would be 2 years of Science for 2 students.

see samples, and scope and sequence

Edited September 13, 2018 by Lori D.

[kbutton]

My 7th grade boy likes Ellen McHenry science units, and he does them relatively independently. He'd probably LOVE to have a sibling close in age to do them with, but he did do one of them in a co-op class. They are very readable, and she has many links to videos (usually very specific to a concept, short, high quality) to give it variety. There are enough activities that your kids can pick and choose which ones to do (or you can decide for them). She builds a lot of games into her materials, and those games deepen understanding and help the student apply what they are learning.