Would you do a formal reading program?

[Runningmom80]

My 6 yo DD just finished her K year at a Montessori school. She made it through all of the phonograms, and was bringing home easy readers by the end of the year. I would say she is an "ok" reader. I gave her and her twin brother the 40L quick screen reading test last night and she tested a .7

*edit: I did the test wrong. Tried it again and by the time she missed 10 she was into 4th grade words, so she levels around grade 3. Her brother was at 2.8. (With me administering the test incorrectly, he's probably around 4th grade) I am not concerned that anything is wrong, or that she won't eventually become a fluent reader, but I also want to be on top of things.

 

I didn't use a reading program with my oldest, he taught himself to read by site, and then sort of intuited the phonics, so I'm starting from scratch here. I like the looks of AAR, but it's expensive and she is closer to a level 2, (I think) but there are a couple of things she didn't get on the placement test. Neither her or her brother were taught about vowels yet, and they didn't do any syllable work at school either. I don't know if it's worth it to go down a whole level for that?

 

To give you an idea, she read "rat" as "rate," and "hog" as "hug." She also has a hard time following multiple lines of text, and she sometimes reads common site words wrong, like she will say "the" where "and" is.

 

I'm thinking about these two options:

 

1. Getting the later Bob books and just reading a lot of "easy readers" until her fluency picks up, and also doing AAS to reinforce phonics (I know their website said this isn't a reading program, but I do think it's helpful for phonics)

 

2. Get a level of AAR, either 1 or 2, and work through them with her, adding AAS in at a later time.

 

Also....I'm not sure how to explain the fact that she needs to do a reading program but her twin doesn't. I know the "right" ways to explain it, we all have strengths and weaknesses, etc etc, but I'm still nervous about it. She can tell that he is a stronger reader than her. :(

 

Any tips? This is all over the place, I apologize. We are starting next Thurs and I'm just now getting my act together. :ph34r:

Edited August 28, 2016 by someonestolemyname

[Arcadia]

For reading sight words or any word she knows wrong, if you point does she get it correct?

 

My DS10 had "air gaps" due to his baby teeth spacing and unless he slow down for a reading or phonics test, he sound off at that age. He was also distracted so his K-2 PS teachers tested with a pointer if he started substituting words.

 

My DS11 is a natural speller but gets syllabication questions on the 2nd grade and 3rd grade state tests (before common core) wrong. He gets phonics, nonsense words correct.

 

I use the LOE book as a spelling program instead for my DS10 since both of mine run away from reading curriculums and Bob books. I have never use AAS but I don't see why a spelling program can't be used to teach reading.

[Runningmom80]

For reading sight words or any word she knows wrong, if you point does she get it correct?

 

My DS10 had "air gaps" due to his baby teeth spacing and unless he slow down for a reading or phonics test, he sound off at that age. He was also distracted so his K-2 PS teachers tested with a pointer if he started substituting words.

 

My DS11 is a natural speller but gets syllabication questions on the 2nd grade and 3rd grade state tests (before common core) wrong. He gets phonics, nonsense words correct.

 

I use the LOE book as a spelling program instead for my DS10 since both of mine run away from reading curriculums and Bob books. I have never use AAS but I don't see why a spelling program can't be used to teach reading.

 

yes, for the sight words she will read the correct word if I point it out.  I guess I'm more concerned about the phonograms, but the more I think about it, the more I think I can just practice with her and try to see if she starts to remember the sounds.

 

[Syllieann]

I would definitely do a reading program for her. I would personally opt for aar because it's all there, multi sensory, easy to use, and works well for a wide variety of kids. Regarding sibling rivalry, maybe you could do opgtr with your ds and then spend some time with him reading aloud to you. That would count as his reading time. Aar would count as your dd's reading time. It might be easier to avoid direct comparison in different programs.

 

You could also stretch her reading time out a little longer than his so that she gets extra instructional time. Breaking the time up is also more efficient for learning, so if she does 3 ten minute sessions throughout the day and he does one 30 minute stretch, the time is still equal but she is getting a little extra oomph. Then they could do aas together whenever your DD is ready.

[tm919]

2. Get a level of AAR, either 1 or 2, and work through them with her, adding AAS in at a later time.

I did this for my younger daughter, and I don't regret it but my pocketbook might! For me it was worth it to me to be sure that there weren't any gaps -- and to not have to wait YEARS as she slowly completed AAS. Altogether levels 1 through 4 will have taken a year since so much is review. The sticking point is really  the price.

Edited August 25, 2016 by tm919

[Runningmom80]

I did this for my younger daughter, and I don't regret it but my pocketbook might! For me it was worth it to me to be sure that there weren't any gaps -- and to not have to wait YEARS as she slowly completed AAS. Altogether levels 1 through 4 will have taken a year since so much is review. The sticking point is really  the price.

 

I know, the price is killer!  But, the tiles are so similar to Montessori moveable alphabet, it really is the best fit.  I think most of level 1 will be review, that's why I'm dragging my heels a little bit.  That being said, she definitely needs a refresher in phonograms so it's probably best to just get level one and progress quickly.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Runningmom80

[Ellie]

My 6 yo DD just finished her K year at a Montessori school.  She made it through all of the phonograms, and was bringing home easy readers by the end of the year. I would say she is an "ok" reader.  I gave her and her twin brother the 40L quick screen reading test last night and she tested a .7. Her brother was at 2.8.  I am not concerned that anything is wrong, or that she won't eventually become a fluent reader, but I also want to be on top of things. 

 

I didn't use a reading program with my oldest, he taught himself to read by site, and then sort of intuited the phonics, so I'm starting from scratch here.  I like the looks of AAR, but it's expensive and she is closer to a level 2, (I think) but there are a couple of things she didn't get on the placement test.  Neither her or her brother were taught about vowels yet, and they didn't do any syllable work at school either.  I don't know if it's worth it to go down a whole level for that? 

 

To give you an idea, she read "rat" as "rate," and "hog" as "hug." She also has a hard time following multiple lines of text, and she sometimes reads common site words wrong, like she will say "the" where "and" is.

 

I'm thinking about these two options:

 

1. Getting the later Bob books and just reading a lot of "easy readers" until her fluency picks up, and also doing AAS to reinforce phonics (I know their website said this isn't a reading program, but I do think it's helpful for phonics)

 

2. Get a level of AAR, either 1 or 2, and work through them with her, adding AAS in at a later time.

 

Also....I'm not sure how to explain the fact that she needs to do a reading program but her twin doesn't.  I know the "right" ways to explain it, we all have strengths and weaknesses, etc etc, but I'm still nervous about it.  She can tell that he is a stronger reader than her.  :(

 

Any tips?  This is all over the place, I apologize.  We are starting next Thurs and I'm just now getting my act together. :ph34r:

 

Not Bob books.

 

You could do Spalding, which teaches children to read by teaching them to spell, and simultaneously teaching penmanship, capitalization and punctuation, and simple writing. You'd need one manual (Writing Road to Reading) and a set of phonogram cards and you're good to go. Since you'd be doing "spelling," it wouldn't matter that her twin doesn't need a "reading program." Both of them would benefit.

[Runningmom80]

Not Bob books.

 

You could do Spalding, which teaches children to read by teaching them to spell, and simultaneously teaching penmanship, capitalization and punctuation, and simple writing. You'd need one manual (Writing Road to Reading) and a set of phonogram cards and you're good to go. Since you'd be doing "spelling," it wouldn't matter that her twin doesn't need a "reading program." Both of them would benefit.

 

I will look into that one, thank you!

[Momto6inIN]

I really like AAR, even for a kids who knows how to read well. My daughter read easily and well pretty quickly, but with the easy readers in 1st and 2nd grade, she would often be able to guess the word from context clues and wasn't really sounding anything out. Now that she's been through AAR, she knows how to sound out unfamiliar words, which she really *needs* to be able to do to read her more advanced science and history and literature books  now that she's older.

 

I really don't have any wisdom to offer for the sibling comparison issue ... sorry!

[MerryAtHope]

Since she already realizes her twin is a better reader, I'd just say something like you want reading to be easier for her, and this program (whatever you choose) will help. Most kids are interested in a subject becoming easier for them. Something I told my kids is that there is always someone who is better than you at something–and always someone who is not as good.  Comparing ourselves to others is not healthy.  Instead, compare yourself to yourself–am I learning, making progress, growing, beating a previous goal or record?  Hey, that’s worth celebrating!  And we all should celebrate those things for each other.

 

If you aren't sure which level of AAR, check out the placement tests and sample stories. That can help you narrow it down.

[Runningmom80]

Since she already realizes her twin is a better reader, I'd just say something like you want reading to be easier for her, and this program (whatever you choose) will help. Most kids are interested in a subject becoming easier for them. Something I told my kids is that there is always someone who is better than you at something–and always someone who is not as good.  Comparing ourselves to others is not healthy.  Instead, compare yourself to yourself–am I learning, making progress, growing, beating a previous goal or record?  Hey, that’s worth celebrating!  And we all should celebrate those things for each other.

 

If you aren't sure which level of AAR, check out the placement tests and sample stories. That can help you narrow it down.

 

I had seen the placement tests but not the sample stories, that was super helpful, thank you for posting!!

[Jackie]

DD taught herself using Bob Books, which makes me a fan of them. But when she finished all the Bob Books, she was only able to read K level books because they included many sight words whereas Bob focuses on phoenetically spelled words. We then just used simple picture books from the library, working out the phonics as we went. I used the AR and Scholastic sites to give me a good idea of how difficult a reading level a book was, so I didn't jump her all over the place. So it is possible for some kids to work through it using library books rather than a program if you would like to try that method before jumping into a structured program.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Jackie

[Runningmom80]

DD taught herself using Bob Books, which makes me a fan of them. But when she finished all the Bob Books, she was only able to read K level books because they included many sight words whereas Bob focuses on phoenetically spelled words. We then just used simple picture books from the library, working out the phonics as we went. I used the AR and Scholastic sites to give me a good idea of how difficult a reading level a book was, so I didn't jump her all over the place. So it is possible for some kids to work through it using library books rather than a program if you would like to try that method before jumping into a structured program.

 

I was considering getting leveled readers and practicing.  I have her little phonics notebook here from Montessori and it looks like she did them all.  I hate to start her at the beginning if she just needs a refresher.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Runningmom80

[smily]

Here's what I used. It was cheep and effective. In combination:

Noah Webster's Reading Handbook (oral)

Explode the Code (workbooks)

And I used little foam or tile letters for hands-on practice.

 

Now we just read regular early readers.😊

[Runningmom80]

Now I'm thinking I'll get one of the books mentioned or OPGTR and AAS.

[Runningmom80]

Ok, I went through the AAR sample stories, and she read up to level 4 pretty well. She needed help with the name "Cedric" and also the word "ought" in the 4th book. Other than that she did great.

 

 

I think I'm just going to get some leveled readers for her to practice with and AAS to reinforce the phonics.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Runningmom80

[Arcadia]

If you check her reading without her twin nearby, does she do better?

 

DS10 was anxious that he is not as good as his brother when in K. When the teachers tested them one by one with the other totally out of sight, my DS10 was just a level behind DS11.

 

At home DS10 won't read to my hubby at that age so hubby was surprised at the parent teacher conference.

 

We use the step into reading books about Thomas the Tank Engine, Star Wars, Transformers for DS10 when he started reading. Both somehow won't take to phonics readers.

[Runningmom80]

If you check her reading without her twin nearby, does she do better?

 

DS10 was anxious that he is not as good as his brother when in K. When the teachers tested them one by one with the other totally out of sight, my DS10 was just a level behind DS11.

 

At home DS10 won't read to my hubby at that age so hubby was surprised at the parent teacher conference.

 

We use the step into reading books about Thomas the Tank Engine, Star Wars, Transformers for DS10 when he started reading. Both somehow won't take to phonics readers.

She did do better when he wasn't around. I'll definitely be keeping them separate for the time being. I'm sure she'll catch up, she just hasn't gotten over the hump to where she can read anything yet, like her brother has.

[LMCme]

If the price for AAR is too much, consider Dancing Bears, published by Sound Foundations.  It helped my DS a lot with reading more carefully and fluently.  It is only to learn decoding and does teach common site words.  You can see the entire book and flashcards at their website.  It is O-G, so the phonemes learned are likely very similar to AAR and Montessauri.  To warn you, as it looks a bit bland at first, it is lists of words to practice phonograms with a built in review on the list of words.  Because they use a cursor (basically a business card sized piece of cardstock with a corner cut out that you drag accross the word to reveal it phoneme by phoneme), it allows you to control the pace and avoid the student rushing.  We did 1-2 pages per day unless we came up to a story, which my son always wanted to read as soon as he saw it.  If you are interested in a true reading curriculum (i.e., reading skills other than decoding), we like CLE Reading 1, but make sure you look at the previews to make sure that your child is going to be able to read at that level; Reading 1 is second term of first grade, after a decoding course.

 

Best,

LMC

[Runningmom80]

If the price for AAR is too much, consider Dancing Bears, published by Sound Foundations. It helped my DS a lot with reading more carefully and fluently. It is only to learn decoding and does teach common site words. You can see the entire book and flashcards at their website. It is O-G, so the phonemes learned are likely very similar to AAR and Montessauri. To warn you, as it looks a bit bland at first, it is lists of words to practice phonograms with a built in review on the list of words. Because they use a cursor (basically a business card sized piece of cardstock with a corner cut out that you drag accross the word to reveal it phoneme by phoneme), it allows you to control the pace and avoid the student rushing. We did 1-2 pages per day unless we came up to a story, which my son always wanted to read as soon as he saw it. If you are interested in a true reading curriculum (i.e., reading skills other than decoding), we like CLE Reading 1, but make sure you look at the previews to make sure that your child is going to be able to read at that level; Reading 1 is second term of first grade, after a decoding course.

 

Best,

LMC

This sounds great, thank you!

[mamamoose]

I know, the price is killer! But, the tiles are so similar to Montessori moveable alphabet, it really is the best fit. I think most of level 1 will be review, that's why I'm dragging my heels a little bit. That being said, she definitely needs a refresher in phonograms so it's probably best to just get level one and progress quickly.

If she's struggling with vowel sounds, I think you should start with level 1. That's really important and all OG materials start with vowels as the very basis for reading.

[Runningmom80]

If she's struggling with vowel sounds, I think you should start with level 1. That's really important and all OG materials start with vowels as the very basis for reading.

 

It's weird, I gave her the 40L test again, and she did struggle with vowels again.  I guess I'll just run through a prgram to fill in the wholes and give her more practice.

 

She can read beginning readers no problem, maybe she uses the context to help her?

[mamamoose]

My son is dyslexic and while I'm not suggesting your dd is dyslexic, I know from experience that an intelligent kid can compensate quite easily. We had extreme difficulty getting help in the public school system for him because he is very smart and, especially with early readers, he would figure out the context within the first few sentences and compensate for the remainder of the story. His teachers were convinced there wasn't a problem but he was classic dyslexic. Anyway, if she's quite smart (i.e. Seems like reading should be easier than it is) I wouldn't skip ahead and I would seriously consider an evaluation. It could be anything from auditory issues to reading issues, and early intervention is key. ☺ï¸

[Arcadia]

She can read beginning readers no problem, maybe she uses the context to help her?

Try the 1st grade fluency passages, all words no pictures to give context.

http://treasures.macmillanmh.com/california/teachers/building-reading-and-writing-skills/student-fluency-passages

 

My DS10 used to look at pictures and say what he want instead of read. So we had to find reading comprehension passages without pictures to let him practice fluency.

[fourisenough]

I would get AAS 1. I know it's not a reading program, but you will teach all the phonograms and she will get plenty of practice reading the words included. You will obviously need to give her more reading practice through books, but that's what a library is for!

[Runningmom80]

My son is dyslexic and while I'm not suggesting your dd is dyslexic, I know from experience that an intelligent kid can compensate quite easily. We had extreme difficulty getting help in the public school system for him because he is very smart and, especially with early readers, he would figure out the context within the first few sentences and compensate for the remainder of the story. His teachers were convinced there wasn't a problem but he was classic dyslexic. Anyway, if she's quite smart (i.e. Seems like reading should be easier than it is) I wouldn't skip ahead and I would seriously consider an evaluation. It could be anything from auditory issues to reading issues, and early intervention is key. ☺ï¸

 

I will definitely keep this in mind, and consider an eval.  I've actually looked up the signs of dyslexia and she does show a few.  She used to read words backwards but her preschool teacher was sure it was due to age. (which it could be.)

[Runningmom80]

Try the 1st grade fluency passages, all words no pictures to give context.

http://treasures.macmillanmh.com/california/teachers/building-reading-and-writing-skills/student-fluency-passages

 

My DS10 used to look at pictures and say what he want instead of read. So we had to find reading comprehension passages without pictures to let him practice fluency.

 

I actually think she's inferring the context from surrounding words.  We were taking turns reading Ivy and Bean last night and she did pretty good, but it's sometimes easy to tell the word that's coming, KWIM? 

[Arcadia]

I actually think she's inferring the context from surrounding words. We were taking turns reading Ivy and Bean last night and she did pretty good, but it's sometimes easy to tell the word that's coming, KWIM?

Yes I know. My DS11 analysed the pattern and tell me he could guess what is on the next page. Especially for the pigeon books, Dr Seuss book, give a mouse a cookie books get analysed by him when he was around that age. He has a pattern analyser personality.

 

ETA:

DS11 wrote notes in mirror image just for fun. DS10 had letter reversal every time he was excited. DS10's teacher for K said she look out for frequency on reversals in reading and writing.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Arcadia

[Runningmom80]

I would get AAS 1. I know it's not a reading program, but you will teach all the phonograms and she will get plenty of practice reading the words included. You will obviously need to give her more reading practice through books, but that's what a library is for!

 

I'm so torn!  It sounds like it takes a really long time to get through all the phonograms with AAS?  My older DS only did level one, he's a natural speller so it was kind of a waste.  Neither of my twins are picking up spelling yet, so I am planning on some sort of spelling at least until I see how their spelling is going to progress.  So if I'm going to get AAS anyways, part of me does kind of want to start there.  I'm not sure how detrimental it would be to go back to AAR after starting AAS.

[Syllieann]

I'm so torn! It sounds like it takes a really long time to get through all the phonograms with AAS? My older DS only did level one, he's a natural speller so it was kind of a waste. Neither of my twins are picking up spelling yet, so I am planning on some sort of spelling at least until I see how their spelling is going to progress. So if I'm going to get AAS anyways, part of me does kind of want to start there. I'm not sure how detrimental it would be to go back to AAR after starting AAS.

How about loe instead of spelling plus reading Sorry, I know you already had enough to consider...ducking.

[Runningmom80]

How about loe instead of spelling plus reading Sorry, I know you already had enough to consider...ducking.

Haha!! At this point everything is on the table.