4 yr Math Plan for a non-STEM student?

[lots-o-rice]

My ds loathes math.  And, frankly, he stinks at it.  He would much rather write a paper than spend 2 hours trying to figure out matrix problems in Algebra 2.   

He tried doing a local school Algebra 2 program this year, but was too frustrated with the pace, so we are using the same book, just at home.  I am finding that he really isn't getting this stuff.  

My question for all you btdt types is:

How much will I ruin him if he ends up taking 2 years to complete Algebra 2? (Sophomore and Junior yrs)

What have other people done for their non-stem field kids for a math plan in high school?

Thanks!

 

K

 

[mom2att]

My dd took Algebra 1 in 8th, Geo in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th, then a semester of College Algebra as a dual enrolled student in 11th and a semester of Statistics as a dual enrolled student in 12th.  Not only did this not affect her college admission prospects, it also fulfilled the math requirements for her major (linguistics) at the university she now attends.  She is thrilled :-)

 

While the traditional math options did not take her more than a year, I didn't list years on her transcript so I doubt it would have been an issue had it taken her longer. I found the colleges she applied to (large state schools) were really just looking to see if she had all of her boxes checked and appropriate test scores.

[LisaKinVA]

My math goals are the same for all of my children -- achieve the highest level of math possible with solid understanding/skills (proficiency).  What this looks like for each child may be different.  LEGOManiac (for a variety of reasons), has taken more time to go through Algebra 1/Geometry/Algebra 2 than PonyGirl.  Neither is lacking in brain capacity, but LEGOManiac just didn't care to study or do practice sets.  PonyGirl will most likely get through a much higher math progression than LEGOManiac.  Both (at present) are Science/engineering inclined (LEGOManiac likes Mechanical/Nuclear/Aerospace engineering fields; while PonyGirl likes Biological Sciences) -- but I wouldn't be surprised if either or both change directions in the next few years.  Their actual interests don't drive their math progression more than their actual acquired SKILL.  Math (in college) was/is a requirement of all majors -- and 4 years of high school math is highly recommended for all students wishing to pursue college degrees (although I suspect this is due more to not having a year-long (or more) gap where one doesn't use higher math...making it more difficult for students to do well in a non-remedial math course in their freshman or sophomore years of college.

 

If your son is struggling with Algebra 2, it is very likely that the underlying Algebra 1 and even Geometry skills are lacking...perhaps more.  I would push through, but take extra care to really focus through extended time (or even back up) on skill areas in which your son struggles.  This is MORE important than having something like Calculus on a resume.  Pre-Calculus (which is the trajectory your son would be as a senior) is perfectly fine as a senior-level course.  I would recommend Pre-Calc over Statistics as a senior, more because Pre-Calc focuses on Algebra, with a bit of trigonometry...OR simply an Algebra 3 course.  The most basic math course (not considered remedial) at my alma mater included Algebra 3/Geometry/Trigonometry.  

 

Of course, if university is not much on the radar -- differing options may be more viable.  But, my priority would still be solid proficiency over how far one of my children got in math in high school

[Jane in NC]

So much depends on future goals.

 

Here in NC, four years of high school mathematics are required for applicants to the UNC system schools; this includes one course beyond Algebra II (so Consumer Math does not cut it!)

 

There is a way around this, of course.  Community colleges have open enrollment policies, but the student cannot avoid Mathematics when pursuing an AA/AS or even some certifications.

 

That said, if your son has not grasped fundamentals, there is no point to listing courses on the transcript for the sake of listing courses.  I think that I work on comprehension and changing his relationship with Mathematics.  Non-stem students benefit from understanding the logic and flow of mathematics.  Further, you never know what interests may intrigue him down the road, particularly those that are tech related where math is necessary.

[kiana]

Is this the DS who did MUS Geometry last year? Did he do MUS Algebra before that?

 

You might find that MUS really didn't adequately prepare him for a different algebra 2.

 

It might be better either to go back to MUS and start over at the beginning of algebra 2, or to re-do algebra 1 with a different curriculum, testing through the easier bits. Algebra 1 is a perfectly reasonable high school class and there is no reason for a struggling sophomore to be doing algebra 2 (which puts him in calculus in 12th grade). It'll look fine if you organize the transcript by subject rather than grade.

[EKS]

Is this the DS who did MUS Geometry last year? Did he do MUS Algebra before that?

 

You might find that MUS really didn't adequately prepare him for a different algebra 2.

 

:iagree:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My ds loathes math.  And, frankly, he stinks at it.  He would much rather write a paper than spend 2 hours trying to figure out matrix problems in Algebra 2.   

He tried doing a local school Algebra 2 program this year, but was too frustrated with the pace, so we are using the same book, just at home.  I am finding that he really isn't getting this stuff.  

My question for all you btdt types is:

How much will I ruin him if he ends up taking 2 years to complete Algebra 2? (Sophomore and Junior yrs)

What have other people done for their non-stem field kids for a math plan in high school?

Thanks!

 

K

 

I think you will "ruin" him less by making sure that he understands the fundamental concepts of algebra and also the foundational topics like fractions, decimals, exponents, etc. than by pushing him through higher level courses now that he doesn't understand.

 

I think it's very likely that the problem isn't with the algebra 2, but rather with the assumed understandings that the algebra 2 builds upon.

 

 

I do think that it's important for students to have a full understanding of algebra and the foundational math topics so that they have the option of going further later.  Because of that I'd put first priority on identifying holes and fixing those issues and then on moving forward through algebra 2.

 

I chatted with a young man recently.  He has a college degree (in a humanities major) and worked for a few years.  He's now unemployed and looking for what to do next.  He is looking at the military.  Because he already has a college degree, he is looking at officer programs.  When he took the initial screening test, he did not score well enough to even submit a package for officer candidate school.  He is now trying to remediate math and science on his own so he can take the test again.  Again, this is so that a college graduate can move forward.

[Mom22ns]

For my non-stem guy, we did Algebra, Geometry, Algebra 2, and AP Stats. The college he is going to next year requires Pre-Calc OR Stats for his only required math course. If he gets a 4 on the AP exam, he is done with math forever. If not, he'll take stats again next year at college and it should be an easy A after a solid year of AP stats this year. Either way. He really likes Stats. He finds it far more interesting and applicable than he did previous math.

 

OP, I would definitely do what it takes to get him solidly though Algebra 2, even if that is spreading it over 2 years. All the public schools in my area offer that as an option. They just transcript it Algebra 2A, and Algebra 2B and they give a full credit for each. 

[J-rap]

One of my children who is a non-stem student really struggled with math.  She would get it eventually, but was so slow and methodical about it, and she absolutely dreaded it every day.  We took one year for Algebra, about a year and half for Geometry, and a year and a half for Algebra 2.  So, four years doing three maths.  It worked out fine for her.  She applied at 5 solid private liberal art colleges and got into all of them, and got some good scholarships too.

 

At the college she has chosen (and she is there in her first year now), she will have to take either one or two math classes at some point.  She was horrified to learn that she had to take a placement test during orientation, but was thrilled when she passed into the college Precalculus class.  Now, I know that's not a very advanced class, but she did pass out of two other math levels, and was really placed right on target for where she was at.  It means that she really did understand and get a good enough grasp of the math she did in high school, even though it was only through Algebra 2 and took her awhile to do it all!

 

Also, I wanted to add that on her high school transcript, we did not list the number of years it took her to complete a class.  We organized according to subject, not year.  So for the math category, we just listed Algebra, Geometry, and Algebra 2 without putting a year.

 

ETA:  This particular daughter used the Teaching Textbook series.

[lots-o-rice]

Thanks, I know that switching MUS upper math has not made this any easier for ds.  I am thinking I will take this class how it comes.  If it takes us longer because we will be filling in some gaps from Al 1 and Geo, than so be it.  If I need to count Algebra 1 as a class included on High school that sounds like an option.  I really agree that I should make sure he has fundamentals before moving too quickly.  

Thanks again,

K 

[Guest2]

Hugs. My sweet sophmore was into videotext Alg almost a year and a half, and we realized she wasn't understanding it well. So we started over with Saxon. We had the time and I m certainly not advocating starting all of it over unless that needs to be done. We used Math U See through Epsilon and later reviewed some Zeta. Once she did understand the concepts better from Alg 1 , Alg 2 ,though still not her favorite class ,is much more enjoyable. My state lowered the math requirements to graduate, but colleges still want 4 years. I love the advice above about how to go about achieving the four years. So frustrating. Just a thought, but you don't often hear of someone who struggles in English worrying about how English should look on the transcript and if four years are required. I wonder why that is?

[MerryAtHope]

I think it's better to spend the time and make sure he gets it than to push him through and have him miss a lot.

 

My oldest ended up doing alg 1 &  2, geometry, and personal finance, and it's been a good fit for him. He didn't want to go on to pre-calc. Not sure what youngest might end up doing.

 

I've looked at a lot of liberal arts college requirements in our region, and they all say 3 years math, though some will say 3-4. And, there's a reason colleges have remedial math classes. A friend's dd only got through Alg. 1 in high school, but that hasn't held her back. Some kids are more developmentally ready to learn higher math in college. 

[kiana]

Just a thought, but you don't often hear of someone who struggles in English worrying about how English should look on the transcript and if four years are required. I wonder why that is?

 

With English it's a lot easier to just label it as "English 9", "English 10", etc., even if the books were not normally considered high school level -- this is not customary in math.

 

What the PS will customarily do in math is use an "easier" course which teaches just the basics and then label it the same as the regular course. There are a number of reasons why this is a really dumb idea in math, but until we manage to convince our legislators that just because you mandate a post-algebra-2 course doesn't mean that you're going to improve the math skills of high school students, we are stuck with what we have. So what homeschoolers should do is try to figure a way to teach the student where s/he is, and then label it so it doesn't look too dissimilar from PS peers.

 

I can assure you that as someone who *teaches* math at a university, I would much rather have a student who took two years each on algebra and geometry and actually understood them enter than someone who had been pushed through a "lite" precalculus which had never moved beyond monkey-see-monkey-do. The students who've gone through the "lite" courses tend to not understand anything and have to start in developmental math *anyway*. It's far more common than you think for students with precalculus on the transcript to have to start in intermediate algebra.

[Jane in NC]

I can assure you that as someone who *teaches* math at a university, I would much rather have a student who took two years each on algebra and geometry and actually understood them enter than someone who had been pushed through a "lite" precalculus which had never moved beyond monkey-see-monkey-do. The students who've gone through the "lite" courses tend to not understand anything and have to start in developmental math *anyway*. It's far more common than you think for students with precalculus on the transcript to have to start in intermediate algebra.

 

Adding on to this that at my local high school that in the watered down post-Algebra II class called "Functions" students learn a series of quickly forgotten calculator algorithms. Not much else.  Grrr...

 

[kiana]

Adding on to this that at my local high school that in the watered down post-Algebra II class called "Functions" students learn a series of quickly forgotten calculator algorithms. Not much else.  Grrr...

 

 

But by golly they took a post-algebra-2 class. Look at our student achievement rise! Why aren't our test scores rising?

 

:rant:

[Mbelle]

I think my humanities oriented student will do Alg 1 and 2 and Geometry.  After that perhaps Statistics and/or College Algebra at the CC to get it out of the way.