Favorite Public Domain Novels?

[Korrale]

I believe Little Women is.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/102

has Little Women, as well as 8 Cousins, Old Fashioned Girl, and so on.

 

Or do you mean Little House??

Yup Alcott's Little Women.

 

My son loved Understood Betsy, that one was a surprise for me. We also enjoyed Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm. Growing up I loved Anne of Green Gables, and Little Women.

My son also enjoyed The Princess and the Goblin and The Princess and the Curdie. The Light Princess was also a hit, as was Five Little Peppers and How They Grew (that one surprised me as well).

Milo Winter's version of Aesop is my favorite, but I've mostly read modern versions, if there is a better public domain version I'd love to hear about it.

For more adult novels, I could go on all day :).

 

Yes Five Little Peppers and. How they Grew. I loved that as a kid.

 

Most of the Anne books have been public domain, but one is not? All the Alcott books are PD? And there will be no more public domain books in the USA until at least 2019, right?

 

Korrale, do you LIKE these books? PERSONALLY do you ENJOY them? These are lower on my list to read myself, as it seems like people universally recommend them. I'd like to hear from people I admire and trust that they have read the book recently and PERSONALLY suggest it. Please, any PD books you are reading with your little man right now, I'd love a short review from you.

 

I don't want to add books that people don't actually enjoy, but we all have labeled as "good for you".

 

I want someone to be able to buy a mom in crisis a Kindle, load it with the books, and have the mom and children ENJOY themselves. If a mom and children have lost EVERYTHING in a flood/fire and are now all cramped into one bedroom of a grumpy mother-in-law's house, I don't want them subjected to "good for you" but unenjoyable.

I love Little Women. I related to Jo very much. I was not a girly girl. I like the sequels where she had a school for boys so much and I really wanted to open something like that myself. It was always a dream. Not just for boys. Just for children in general.

 

As noted about I loved The Five Little Peppers but I have not read that since I was a kid.

 

Recently my son and I both read Heidi. I would add that to a list. My son loved it so much that when he got a puppy recent he named her Adelheid, but we call her Heidi.

We also loved A Little Princess and A Secret Garden.

[Soror]

I remember loving Little Women as a child and I find The Wind in the Willows just beautiful and I'm not generally one that appreciates flowery language as much as I should.

[MamaSprout]

Yes, Wind in the Willows- better than Pinocchio. A lot of Gene Stratton Porter's stuff is well-liked. I find it syrupy.

 

I wonder why the crack down on ebooks, they don't usually cost the library per check-out. Other services, like music streaming and Hoopla do cost the library per check out.

 

I found Swiss Family Robinson dreadful.

[stripe]

A lot of Gene Stratton Porter's stuff is well-liked. I find it syrupy.

 

I tried to read Freckles and was surprised by the sort of religious revival tone to it, which I didn't expect. Anyway last night I found this blog post about old books,including this about Limberlost

http://redeemingqualities.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/a-girl-of-the-limberlost/#more-529

In it, one person comments that the structure is weird -- I'd never thought of it this way, but it's really true. The author and the commenter both said that the complex mother/daughter relationship is the best thing about it; I very much agree.

I have gotten sidetracked reading a bunch of commentaries about her work! Including in Her Father's Daughter, and a long review from 2009 in the NYReview of Books.

 

Anyway another issue with PD books is translator and illustrator. The text may be the same, but I've found edition can matter, pictures can matter, and translators make a huge difference. Many PD versions of Russian lit are all the Constance Garnett translations or others that have also had more contemporary translations, and sometimes the newer translations may speak to the reader more than another one. I read a newer translation of Pinnochio. Even in the fairy tales like East O the Sun, my kids noticed the old book always referred to the youngest son as Boots, which is kind of a British thing (apparently!) not a Scandinavian one, and I don't think occurs in the original.

[Mrs. A]

Where there any difficult to understand parts for lower functioning students?

 

The language is definitely a higher level. I guess it would depend how used they are to hearing and understanding language above their reading level. We read it while my kids were 7 and 6 and sometimes I had to define words, but for the most part they were able to follow along fine. They are used to being read to though and we have read lots of difficult books together. So I guess keep in mind where the students are. 

 

 

Very good to know! I've been looking at all these books. 

 

Do you like Parables of Nature?

 

 

I haven't tried Parables of Nature yet. It's on my list, but we just haven't gotten around to it. I'll let you know when I do. 

[MamaSprout]

I want someone to be able to buy a mom in crisis a Kindle, load it with the books, and have the mom and children ENJOY themselves. If a mom and children have lost EVERYTHING in a flood/fire and are now all cramped into one bedroom of a grumpy mother-in-law's house, I don't want them subjected to "good for you" but unenjoyable.

 

Thinking about this... This is a good, useful thing as a goal. But for that mom, wouldn't she pick and choose from something like AO and Old Fashioned Education and whatever free books she could get as a temporary fix?

 

I guess I see a need for families who have a very limited budget, want to follow a "Great Books" type approach (without the racist etc,  baggage), and are homeschooling kids who will likely go to mainstream universities. Maybe not in quite so dire circumstances as your flood/ fire mom, though. Does that make sense?

 

Are you thinking about other subjects? I found CM-style copy work to be completely inadequate. Science and history? Are there modern, free, or almost free, online sources? I guess I'm hijacking your novel thread a little. I spent a lot of time working on something similar, and found it to be frustrating (and surprisingly expensive to track down some of the books on those lists that are not PD).

 

I don't want to come across as critical. I spent hours and hours trying to something similar and found out, for my time, there were less expensive and time consuming ways to go. That's why I created my own set of documents to structure our day using whatever materials I put together.

 

I'm glad you are doing this.

[Hunter]

I loathe and despise Pinocchio :lol:

 

I've just been looking through my collection of Librivox downloads and found 'The Sun's Babies' by Edith Howes. I remember that as absolutely delightful.

 

I was seldom read to as a child, but a boyfriend of my mom read us that book trying to impress my mom I guess. I think it worked.  :huh:

 

I just got a free copy of The Sun's Babies at Amazon. Thanks! It looks good.

[Hunter]

Version 2 and Version 3 of The Wind in the Willows on librivox are both quite pleasant. I listen to PD books on my Kindle or iPod while I clean the house :).

 

Thanks for the idea. I have a LOT of books to preview. I think I will load some up on my phone, and listen while I walk and ride the trains.

[Hunter]

My son loved it so much that when he got a puppy recent he named her Adelheid, but we call her Heidi.

 

 

That is SO sweet!

[Hunter]

Yes, Wind in the Willows- better than Pinocchio. A lot of Gene Stratton Porter's stuff is well-liked. I find it syrupy.

 

I wonder why the crack down on ebooks, they don't usually cost the library per check-out. Other services, like music streaming and Hoopla do cost the library per check out.

 

I found Swiss Family Robinson dreadful.

 

I think libraries pay a fee for every 10 downloads of ebooks.

 

Library cards, especially in cities with large collections of downloads, are starting to expire now and some are requiring better proof of residence during the renewal process.

 

Swiss Family Robinson is long. I check the length of audio books to get an idea of how long the book will take to read. Many books only take about 4 hours. Swiss Family takes about 12, I think.

[Hunter]

I tried to read Freckles and was surprised by the sort of religious revival tone to it, which I didn't expect. Anyway last night I found this blog post about old books,including this about Limberlost

http://redeemingqualities.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/a-girl-of-the-limberlost/#more-529

In it, one person comments that the structure is weird -- I'd never thought of it this way, but it's really true. The author and the commenter both said that the complex mother/daughter relationship is the best thing about it; I very much agree.

I have gotten sidetracked reading a bunch of commentaries about her work! Including in Her Father's Daughter, and a long review from 2009 in the NYReview of Books.

 

Anyway another issue with PD books is translator and illustrator. The text may be the same, but I've found edition can matter, pictures can matter, and translators make a huge difference. Many PD versions of Russian lit are all the Constance Garnett translations or others that have also had more contemporary translations, and sometimes the newer translations may speak to the reader more than another one. I read a newer translation of Pinnochio. Even in the fairy tales like East O the Sun, my kids noticed the old book always referred to the youngest son as Boots, which is kind of a British thing (apparently!) not a Scandinavian one, and I don't think occurs in the original.

 

Which comes first? Freckles or Girl of the Limberlost?

[MamaSprout]

I think libraries pay a fee for every 10 downloads of ebooks.

 

Library cards, especially in cities with large collections of downloads, are starting to expire now and some are requiring better proof of residence during the renewal process.

 

Swiss Family Robinson is long. I check the length of audio books to get an idea of how long the book will take to read. Many books only take about 4 hours. Swiss Family takes about 12, I think.

 

Maybe it depends on the service. Our library is trying to get more people to use the ebooks b/c they pay a flat fee and would like to see it used more.

 

We had a "paid" card before we owned property in our nearest large city, and they did block us from using it for any digital media.

[stripe]

Which comes first? Freckles or Girl of the Limberlost?

Freckles, but you don't need to read both. 

 

The now-married Freckles is sort of a benefactor to the main character in Limberlost. But you don't really need to know his back story.

 

I should say that the "love for nature" angle in Stratton Porter's books involves capturing butterflies and moths to be put (dead) in a collection, and cutting down forests and drilling for oil. 

 

 

I spent a lot of time working on something similar, and found it to be frustrating (and surprisingly expensive to track down some of the books on those lists that are not PD).

Yep! They are all totally obscure and run $20 each at a minimum, often more. And only a few libraries have them.

[VeritasMama]

I think libraries pay a fee for every 10 downloads of ebooks.

 

Library cards, especially in cities with large collections of downloads, are starting to expire now and some are requiring better proof of residence during the renewal process.

 

Swiss Family Robinson is long. I check the length of audio books to get an idea of how long the book will take to read. Many books only take about 4 hours. Swiss Family takes about 12, I think.

Overdrive also has a limit as to how many copies of the ebooks can be loaned out at once, unlimited access costs the library more. I've had to place holds and wait my turn for ebooks, although this is more an issue for the newer books than the PD books. I think the libraries are trying to make sure their resident patrons have better access to the services, without people from outside the area clogging up the works.

 

Hunter, I did not care for Parables of nature, the religious overtones didn't exactly match our worldview, since we aren't Protestant. I much prefer the Among the....People series, they are more "secular" but still very charming, and I thought they were informative.

[LivingHope]

Ten books we enjoyed here:

The House at Pooh Corner

Swallows and Amazons

Pollyanna

Kidnapped

Captains Courageous (My dh's favorite book)

David Copperfield

Jane Eyre

Pride and Prejudice

Ben Hur

Pilgrim's Progress

[Hunter]

I'm finding that many libraries are wanting to convert patrons from hardcopy books to eBooks, BUT many are trying to shrink their patron list. I find this troubling. The gap between rich and poor keeps widening, and I fear the poor will have even less library access than they did in the past. As a domestic abuse survivor, who can't give out her home address, I'm going to have to get outside help if I'm going to make it through the renewal process, or give up having a card. In just a few weeks or months, I'm going to be dealing with students who no longer have library cards. I've been having them go online and check when their cards expire. Without library cards they are even going to be losing their access to use the library computers.

 

In my city, the protectors of the poor have not yet understood the severity of the coming library problem. I'm going to have to take the time to schedule some meetings with people who can help. But in the meantime, it has alerted me to what I need to consider when planning a curriculum, for a certain target audience. In just the past 6 months things have changed. Better for the remaining middle class, but worse for the poor and displaced.

[Hunter]

Overdrive also has a limit as to how many copies I the ebooks can be loaned out at once, unlimited access costs the library more. I've had to place holds and wait my turn for ebooks, although this is more an issue for the newer books than the PD books. I think the libraries are trying to make sure their resident patrons have better access to the services, without people from outside the are clogging up the works.

 

Hunter, I did not care for Parables of nature, the religious overtones didn't exactly match our worldview, since we aren't Protestant. I much prefer the Among the....People series, they are more "secular" but still very charming, and I thought they were informative.

 

I'm realizing I need to narrow down how Christian or secular I want to make this curriculum. That is going to be the hardest choice to make. No longer a Christian myself, I use the BIble as a reader constantly as it's often the only hardcopy books some students have. It relieves eyestrain for students that otherwise only have a cell phone to read from.

 

I am planning on making doc versions of the pdf schedules available, and will ENCOURAGE people to tweak them and post them on their own websites, adapted to a different audience than the originals. That relieves me from trying to meet the needs of multiple audiences.

 

But, I do need to decide on religion and worldview for MY target audience. Ouch! that is going to be the hardest choice I make.

[stripe]

My library has PD downloads on Overdrive, with no expiration.

[Hunter]

Thinking about this... This is a good, useful thing as a goal. But for that mom, wouldn't she pick and choose from something like AO and Old Fashioned Education and whatever free books she could get as a temporary fix?

 

I guess I see a need for families who have a very limited budget, want to follow a "Great Books" type approach (without the racist etc,  baggage), and are homeschooling kids who will likely go to mainstream universities. Maybe not in quite so dire circumstances as your flood/ fire mom, though. Does that make sense?

 

Are you thinking about other subjects? I found CM-style copy work to be completely inadequate. Science and history? Are there modern, free, or almost free, online sources? I guess I'm hijacking your novel thread a little. I spent a lot of time working on something similar, and found it to be frustrating (and surprisingly expensive to track down some of the books on those lists that are not PD).

 

I don't want to come across as critical. I spent hours and hours trying to something similar and found out, for my time, there were less expensive and time consuming ways to go. That's why I created my own set of documents to structure our day using whatever materials I put together.

 

I'm glad you are doing this.

 

The available curricula do not meet my needs and those of my target audience. AO is becoming increasingly unusable for me and some others that I know. I am in awe of what AO has accomplished. Being in awe of something doesn't make it personally usable, though.

 

The most prolific posters at this forum are not my target audience. Sometimes my target audience will be your sister-in-laws and neighbors and church members, though. if I am actually able to do what I want to do, my curriculum will be a place to START helping them. You can tweak it and maybe buy them some modern books to replace those you hate the most in the curriculum.

 

Part of doing this is curiosity on my part. How well can we educate on all free downloads? It takes lining it up on spreadsheets to answer that question. Maybe the answer will be that it's impossible to adequately educate with free downloads. I think the purchase of SOTW 4 for year 4 is going to be a necessity. It's available as a $9.99 Kindle download, and I think the hardcopy is available in many countries without the exorbitant shipping that is required for some other books.

 

The South African Thunderbolt science is adequate enough for the science I think. I started a thread on that question a few days ago.

 

Some of this is almost an experiment. I think the data collected might be useful, beyond anything I intend to use it for personally. More than anything, I'm curious.

[Hunter]

Ten books we enjoyed here:

The House at Pooh Corner

Swallows and Amazons

Pollyanna

Kidnapped

Captains Courageous (My dh's favorite book)

David Copperfield

Jane Eyre

Pride and Prejudice

Ben Hur

Pilgrim's Progress

 

How did Ben Hur go?

 

Pooh and the Little House books are PD in Canada and Australia, and available on sites hosted in those countries. They are illegal for Americans to download, right?

[VeritasMama]

My library has PD downloads on Overdrive, with no expiration.

Our library uses Overdrive as well as OneClick, and there is an expiration date. You are only allowed to check out so many ebooks and audiobooks at a time, but you can also return them before the expiration date and then check out more. I've been told that the unlimited subscriptions on Overdrive cost the library more.

 

Hunter- I don't avoid all Protestant literature or all books that have a Protestant worldview. It is wonderful to be exposed to many different viewpoints, and necessary to understand culture and history. I simply avoid the Protestant worldview in places where it isn't necessary or doesn't enhance our studies, like the subjects of science or nature study. If we are reading a book in an area such as nature study, I personally want to stick with a more secular viewpoint. I wasn't sure what type of worldview you were going for, so I thought I'd mention it. I think simply offering a list of alternatives for whatever texts you do choose is more than enough to "cover your bases" in this area.

[LivingHope]

Sorry, Hunter, Pooh is not public domain. So, I'll add another to replace it...Understood Betsy. Love that one.

 

Ben Hur is in the same vein as Count of Monte Cristo. My six year old especially loved me reading the long descriptions of the deserts and cities. And Christ was the ultimate hero of the story. I didn't find anything objectionable, but there is a bit of tragedy (chariot race accident) and some triumph (healing).

 

Also, maybe I should replace Jane Eyre...it's kind of creepy. (We really enjoyed it and our discussions.) My oldest says that A Little Princess is one of her favorites.

[MamaSprout]

Our library uses Overdrive as well as OneClick, and there is an expiration date. You are only allowed to check out so many ebooks and audiobooks at a time, but you can also return them before the expiration date and then check out more. I've been told that the unlimited subscriptions on Overdrive cost the library more.

 

Hunter- I don't avoid all Protestant literature or all books that have a Protestant worldview. It is wonderful to be exposed to many different viewpoints, and necessary to understand culture and history. I simply avoid the Protestant worldview in places where it isn't necessary or doesn't enhance our studies, like the subjects of science or nature study. If we are reading a book in an area such as nature study, I personally want to stick with a more secular viewpoint. I wasn't sure what type of worldview you were going for, so I thought I'd mention it. I think simply offering a list of alternatives for whatever texts you do choose is more than enough to "cover your bases" in this area.

The PD are always available with no due date. It clicks through to a different page. Look for the icon.

[VeritasMama]

I'm realizing I need to narrow down how Christian or secular I want to make this curriculum. That is going to be the hardest choice to make. No longer a Christian myself, I use the BIble as a reader constantly as it's often the only hardcopy books some students have. It relieves eyestrain for students that otherwise only have a cell phone to read from.

 

I am planning on making doc versions of the pdf schedules available, and will ENCOURAGE people to tweak them and post them on their own websites, adapted to a different audience than the originals. That relieves me from trying to meet the needs of multiple audiences.

 

But, I do need to decide on religion and worldview for MY target audience. Ouch! that is going to be the hardest choice I make.

This may be a tangent, so I apologize ahead of time if I'm going too far off topic. But I've been thinking about this, what I would do if I were creating a list or curriculum for others. The reason I was drawn to PD books and "good books" approach in the first place is because I want to provide a foundation for the Great Books. One of my main goals for my children is to ensure they are "culturally literate." I want them to have the frame of reference necessary to pick up any book and comprehend it. This means Western Civilization, obviously, but they study other cultures as well. Some people think that this type of education is "elitist." I am passionate in my belief that any one can benefit from a form of. a "great books" education, and that public domain materials can make this accessible to anyone who wants to take on the effort. This is one reason I admire AO, even if it doesn't entirely fit my worldview, it does make a classical liberal arts education more accessible for those who don't have much money and didn't receive that type of education themselves.

 

I know you like Hirsch's work Hunter, so is "cultural literacy" what your focus could be? In that regard, the Bible is very necessary. My husband attended public high school, and his lit teacher made sure they covered the Bible and Greek mythology because they are both referenced in Western literature so heavily. You don't need to study it as a religious text to gain the necessary frame of reference.

 

In my college World Lit classes, we studied the Bible, Koran, Confucius, Buddhist and Hindu writings, Greek and Roman mythology as foundational texts necessary to be able to understand the various literary traditions that came later.

 

Even if you aren't a Christian, you do need some understanding of it to have gain a deeper understanding of the history, literature, art and culture of the last 2,000 years. The last century has seen the decline of Christian culture, but understanding the basics of Christianity and the impact it had on world events and culture is still important.

 

This is why I own the What Your Child Needs it Know series, I only use it as a reference, but it is a very valuable reference to have. I actually read Hirsch when I was still a classroom teacher and hadn't yet dived into homeschooling or discovered "classical education," and his ideas really spoke to me.

[stripe]

Our library uses Overdrive as well as OneClick, and there is an expiration date. You are only allowed to check out so many ebooks and audiobooks at a time, but you can also return them before the expiration date and then check out more. I've been told that the unlimited subscriptions on Overdrive cost the library more.

I get what you're saying; through my library's Overdrive arrangement, keeping in mind that I'm limited to ten titles checked out, they say

 

Consider one of these free public domain titles! Choose from thousands of titles that never expire and don’t count against your library checkout limit! 

 

In essence, it's like getting them from Gutenberg or Archive.org or whatever other free source. I find it easy to get books onto the Kindle via Overdrive or Amazon's website or emailing them to the Kindle, but I dislike using it for other ereaders and prefer to copy it on directly via a USB cord. I think the PD books are all epub versions anyway. I want to support non-kindle ereaders, but seriously, Kindles are so much easier to get content on to!!!

 

Apple was giving people a copy of Winnie the Pooh in iBooks, with their iPads, at least at some point, but it's not PD in the US, alas. I am not sure I'd say Understood Betsy is an equivalent!

 

Anyhoo, I love the idea of Hunter's project.

 

I will be back later because I have a couple items to list that I need to track down.

[Guest]

My little guy LOVED Thornton Burgess. I'd actually decluttered his big sister's paperbacks because I thought they were too old fashioned, but we just kept downloading .mobis from Project Gutenberg for most of his pre-K year.

 

Just FYI, your target audience might have pre-existing issues with spiritual abuse and prefer secular reads, although it can go the other way with someone who has a strong faith that predates their crisis. There is nowhere in my own area that a homeless non-Christian can legally sleep and Food not Bombs is probably the only place they can eat unless they panhandle or find something in a dumpster themselves.

 

 

[LivingHope]

(already mentioned) The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and The Princess and the Goblin-but we don't like its sequel.

 

The Wonder Book and Tanglewood Tales by Hawthorne are entertaining.

 

I really like The Elson Readers, Jean-Henri Fabre's nature and science books, and Our Little Cousin of Long Ago books.

[MamaSprout]

https://archive.org/details/anthologyofchild00horoarch

This might be helpful. It displays well online. Not sure about transferring to a device.

[beaners]

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone else mention it, but there is a story called Mopsa the Fairy by Jean Ingelow that our family did as a read aloud a couple years ago and everyone loved. I think most of the other books we have enjoyed are already mentioned.

[Hunter]

Our library uses Overdrive as well as OneClick, and there is an expiration date. You are only allowed to check out so many ebooks and audiobooks at a time, but you can also return them before the expiration date and then check out more. I've been told that the unlimited subscriptions on Overdrive cost the library more.

 

Hunter- I don't avoid all Protestant literature or all books that have a Protestant worldview. It is wonderful to be exposed to many different viewpoints, and necessary to understand culture and history. I simply avoid the Protestant worldview in places where it isn't necessary or doesn't enhance our studies, like the subjects of science or nature study. If we are reading a book in an area such as nature study, I personally want to stick with a more secular viewpoint. I wasn't sure what type of worldview you were going for, so I thought I'd mention it. I think simply offering a list of alternatives for whatever texts you do choose is more than enough to "cover your bases" in this area.

 

I'm interested in all that you have to say about worldview.

 

I did a lot of thinking while I was walking today. I decided I am not going to listen to audio books while walking. I don't know all the science behind it, but walking seems to provide some certain types of brain stimulation and organization, and I know I figure things our while walking.

 

I'm really excited about some of the idea I came up with today. But I'm become increasingly undecided about worldview. I know at some point, I will need to make a choice and then run with it unabashedly for better and for worse. I'm not sure there is a "right" choice, but I just want to make a good choice, that is as unoffensive and helpful to as many people as possible.

[Hunter]

Sorry, Hunter, Pooh is not public domain. So, I'll add another to replace it...Understood Betsy. Love that one.

 

Ben Hur is in the same vein as Count of Monte Cristo. My six year old especially loved me reading the long descriptions of the deserts and cities. And Christ was the ultimate hero of the story. I didn't find anything objectionable, but there is a bit of tragedy (chariot race accident) and some triumph (healing).

 

Also, maybe I should replace Jane Eyre...it's kind of creepy. (We really enjoyed it and our discussions.) My oldest says that A Little Princess is one of her favorites.

 

Thank you everyone for your personal reviews. This helps so much.

 

I loved the Little Princess as a child. LOVED it.

[Hunter]

This may be a tangent, so I apologize ahead of time if I'm going too far off topic. But I've been thinking about this, what I would do if I were creating a list or curriculum for others. The reason I was drawn to PD books and "good books" approach in the first place is because I want to provide a foundation for the Great Books. One of my main goals for my children is to ensure they are "culturally literate." I want them to have the frame of reference necessary to pick up any book and comprehend it. This means Western Civilization, obviously, but they study other cultures as well. Some people think that this type of education is "elitist." I am passionate in my belief that any one can benefit from a form of. a "great books" education, and that public domain materials can make this accessible to anyone who wants to take on the effort. This is one reason I admire AO, even if it doesn't entirely fit my worldview, it does make a classical liberal arts education more accessible for those who don't have much money and didn't receive that type of education themselves.

 

I know you like Hirsch's work Hunter, so is "cultural literacy" what your focus could be? In that regard, the Bible is very necessary. My husband attended public high school, and his lit teacher made sure they covered the Bible and Greek mythology because they are both referenced in Western literature so heavily. You don't need to study it as a religious text to gain the necessary frame of reference.

 

In my college World Lit classes, we studied the Bible, Koran, Confucius, Buddhist and Hindu writings, Greek and Roman mythology as foundational texts necessary to be able to understand the various literary traditions that came later.

 

Even if you aren't a Christian, you do need some understanding of it to have gain a deeper understanding of the history, literature, art and culture of the last 2,000 years. The last century has seen the decline of Christian culture, but understanding the basics of Christianity and the impact it had on world events and culture is still important.

 

This is why I own the What Your Child Needs it Know series, I only use it as a reference, but it is a very valuable reference to have. I actually read Hirsch when I was still a classroom teacher and hadn't yet dived into homeschooling or discovered "classical education," and his ideas really spoke to me.

 

All this is very helpful to read. Thanks. I need to tighten up my goals for this curriculum. My goals for this curriculum might be different than my goals for my average student, my own self-education, and any goals I might have if I was consulted for input into the education of grandchildren or nieces and nephews.

 

I know why and where AO and TWTM and other curricula do NOT work for my target audience, but I'm becoming increasingly aware that I still don't have a tight enough handle on what I DO want to do.

 

A social worker, a few months back, asked me to reevaluate my education, what parts of my education have been useful to me and others, and what I think being educated means. She really turned my world topsy turvy. I was so focused on how rough around the edges I was, I failed to see how much reading and more reading and even more reading prepared me for my life. I have been spared much pain, and have been prepared to protect and assist others by reading novels, many of them PD novels. I really has underestimated the importance of how all that novel reading prepared me for my journey.

 

Checklists are important, and can be comforting to complete, but…I'm starting to place less focus on some of them, especially when they get in the way of more time reading.

 

And I'm beginning to place more emphasis on mind, body, and soul balance than cultural literacy, when I have to make a choice between the two.

 

Your questions and comments, and those from other people here. too, are very helpful. Thank you.

[Hunter]

My little guy LOVED Thornton Burgess. I'd actually decluttered his big sister's paperbacks because I thought they were too old fashioned, but we just kept downloading .mobis from Project Gutenberg for most of his pre-K year.

 

Just FYI, your target audience might have pre-existing issues with spiritual abuse and prefer secular reads, although it can go the other way with someone who has a strong faith that predates their crisis. There is nowhere in my own area that a homeless non-Christian can legally sleep and Food not Bombs is probably the only place they can eat unless they panhandle or find something in a dumpster themselves.

 

Interesting input! To date, my online experiences with homeschoolers in crisis has been different than the experiences with survivors in real life. I think my online contact, has been narrowed before we made contact and is skewing my interpretation of my theoretical audience. Thank you for this post! It is MOST helpful.

[Hunter]

(already mentioned) The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and The Princess and the Goblin-but we don't like its sequel.

 

The Wonder Book and Tanglewood Tales by Hawthorne are entertaining.

 

I really like The Elson Readers, Jean-Henri Fabre's nature and science books, and Our Little Cousin of Long Ago books.

 

I'm glad to hear Hawthorne was entertaining!

 

How offensive do you think the Little Cousin books would be to more sensitive families? I'm lining this up with TWTM, so people will be able to immediately trade the PD history and lit for TWTM suggestions as soon as possible if they hate the books I choose, but I want to pick the most sensitive and enjoyable choices available. I haven't read any of these, yet.

 

If I get this done, I'm going to post portions of it at a time, and beg you all to ATTACK each portion, one at time in one thread, so that people will be able to read that one thread and be immediately warned of all the things they need to know most. And I can replace anything that could be improved with another PD substitution.

[Hunter]

https://archive.org/details/anthologyofchild00horoarch

This might be helpful. It displays well online. Not sure about transferring to a device.

 

How did THAT end out in PD! :party: I'm downloading it now. It's taking awhile. I hope it's a quality scan. Fingers crossed!

[Hunter]

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone else mention it, but there is a story called Mopsa the Fairy by Jean Ingelow that our family did as a read aloud a couple years ago and everyone loved. I think most of the other books we have enjoyed are already mentioned.

 

I will look for that! Thanks! I love these new titles.

[stripe]

Here is my post about a poetry book I have in print that is PD

 

I have One Thousand Poems for Children based upon the selections of Roger Ingpen, selected and arranged by Elizabeth Hough Sechrist. It has a section on goofy poems but mostly they are not. It is not mostly aimed at the young child, but there are also not erotic poems or bacchanal type stuff. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=8OsyAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

(What I'm seeing pricewise (>$30) for used is way too high, I think. I paid under $8 inc shipping, in the past year.)

 

I quite like the "Poems that Sing" section; it includes Barter by Sara Teasdale (I think I memorized this in 7th grade), Tennyson, Robert Burns, Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Byron, Keats, Edna St Vincent Millay, Poe, Shelley, Walter Scott, William Blake, RL Stevenson, Oscar Wilde, Ben Jonson, RW Emerson, and Housman. 

 

ETA: This book from Librivox contains an exhaustive/exhausting number of items:

Childhood's Favorites and Fairy Stories

https://librivox.org/childhoods-favorites-and-fairy-stories-by-various/

My kids listened to parts of it, but I've never used the print version. Anyway maybe it's of help to you. There are over 200 tracks.

[Hunter]

Here is my post about a poetry book I have in print that is PD

 

 

 

Nice! Some of the pages are cut off, but there is still a lot of useable content that is readable.

[stripe]

Is this one better?

https://archive.org/details/onethousandpoems00ingprich

[VeritasMama]

A social worker, a few months back, asked me to reevaluate my education, what parts of my education have been useful to me and others, and what I think being educated means. She really turned my world topsy turvy. I was so focused on how rough around the edges I was, I failed to see how much reading and more reading and even more reading prepared me for my life. I have been spared much pain, and have been prepared to protect and assist others by reading novels, many of them PD novels. I really has underestimated the importance of how all that novel reading prepared me for my journey.

 

Checklists are important, and can be comforting to complete, but…I'm starting to place less focus on some of them, especially when they get in the way of more time reading.

 

And I'm beginning to place more emphasis on mind, body, and soul balance than cultural literacy, when I have to make a choice between the two.

 

Your questions and comments, and those from other people here. too, are very helpful. Thank you.

Yes, I think great literature feeds the soul as well as the mind, and is a great teacher for important life lessons and truths. People learn through stories better than any other method. That is one reason why I have emphasized it so much in our classroom.

 

And that is why cultural literacy is so important to me. I want my kids to be able to pick up the greatest literature out there when they are adults and read it without any barriers. I want them to read the material they will need as a reference now so they can continue to read great literature their entire lives.

 

I don't think this is as hard as people think it is, and I don't think the kind of "cultural literacy" I'm talking about need be as extensive as all the information that Hirsch includes in his books. I think it can be narrowed down and that great PD literature like you are discussing makes it accessible for everyone. What a beautiful thing.

 

Thanks for this discussion, it's been interesting and fun :).

[Hunter]

 

 

 

ETA: This book from Librivox contains an exhaustive/exhausting number of items:

Childhood's Favorites and Fairy Stories

https://librivox.org/childhoods-favorites-and-fairy-stories-by-various/

My kids listened to parts of it, but I've never used the print version. Anyway maybe it's of help to you. There are over 200 tracks.

 

I found the text. It looks really good. Thanks!

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/19993

[Hunter]

Is this one better?

https://archive.org/details/onethousandpoems00ingprich

 

Yes. Thank You!

[Hunter]

 I don't think the kind of "cultural literacy" I'm talking about need be as extensive as all the information that Hirsch includes in his books. 

 

I'm trying to figure out what that body of knowledge is. I'm all ears to anything you have to say on the subject.

[Hunter]

Can anyone view this pdf of the Columbia Encyclopedia? It's very spotty on my computer, but I have trouble with a lot of documents. I seem to have a problem with a setting.

 

And big files are flakey on a tablet.

 

Is this spotty for everyone?

 

https://archive.org/details/columbiaencyclop030445mbp

[VeritasMama]

I'm trying to figure out what that body of knowledge is. I'm all ears to anything you have to say on the subject.

This is a fun challenge, deciding which public domain material from the core knowledge and "good books" programs is essential so it can be simplified an pared down for families in need or crisis. Is there any criteria I'm missing?

 

I don't pretend to have had a good enough education to really know what this would be, but I've been pouring over booklists and curriculum. So my unqualified bare bone picks for teaching "cultural literacy" for K-6 would include:

 

Mother Goose rhymes, we enjoy this collection

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10607/10607-h/10607-h.htm

 

A good poetry anthology such as listed above

 

Aesop, I like Milo Winter's version

 

Bible stories, either a version for children or an actual Bible and the translation would obviously vary by worldview

 

A history series such as SOTW, though I would supplement with Catholic history books as well. I chose SOTW because haven't found a public domain history book that completely satisfies me

 

Fairy Tales from Lang, including his adaptation of Arabian Nights.

 

Greek mythology, Tanglewood Tales is nice.

 

Homer, Padriac Colum has a nice version for children, I don't know many other public domain versions as we read the Rosemary Sutcliffe adaptations at home

 

Norse Mythology, we enjoyed Viking Tales by Jenny Hall and Children of Odin by Padriac Colum.

 

Fifty Famous Stories Retold

 

Plenty of novels including the ones already listed. I suppose that would be another list in and of itself.

 

 

Some other books that came to mind that I'm not sure would be completely necessary include a children's adaptation of Plutarch, an adaptation of Shakespeare such Tales From Shakespeare by Lamb.

 

That list is longer than I thought it would be, and I'm not sure if those titles or topics would even work for the students you have in mind. I'd love to see some suggestions from those who are better read than me :).

 

ETA: it dawned on me that American tall tales should be added to the list, I don't know of any PD collections, off to look for one. I realize that this is a very "western list," I would probably add more fairy tales and fables from around the world. The Little Cousins came to mind as a PD option, but I haven't read them.

[MamaSprout]

We like Lamb's Shakespeare. We've moved through it over 2-3 years.

[Guest]

Can anyone view this pdf of the Columbia Encyclopedia? It's very spotty on my computer, but I have trouble with a lot of documents. I seem to have a problem with a setting.

 

And big files are flakey on a tablet.

 

Is this spotty for everyone?

 

https://archive.org/details/columbiaencyclop030445mbp

 

Clear as a bell on on a Thinkpad T61 running Trisquel-mini 6.0.1.

[MamaSprout]

Small and grainy on an iPad Mini. Possible options...

"Encyclopedia Gutenberg" the intro is sort of humorous http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/200/pg200.html

It's obviously the classic Britannica.

 

Britannica Online http://www.britannica.com

[Hunter]

This is a fun challenge, deciding which public domain material from the core knowledge and "good books" programs is essential so it can be simplified an pared down for families in need or crisis. Is there any criteria I'm missing?

 

I don't pretend to have had a good enough education to really know what this would be, but I've been pouring over booklists and curriculum. So my unqualified bare bone picks for teaching "cultural literacy" for K-6 would include:

 

Mother Goose rhymes, we enjoy this collection

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10607/10607-h/10607-h.htm

 

A good poetry anthology such as listed above

 

Aesop, I like Milo Winter's version

 

Bible stories, either a version for children or an actual Bible and the translation would obviously vary by worldview

 

A history series such as SOTW, though I would supplement with Catholic history books as well. I chose SOTW because haven't found a public domain history book that completely satisfies me

 

Fairy Tales from Lang, including his adaptation of Arabian Nights.

 

Greek mythology, Tanglewood Tales is nice.

 

Homer, Padriac Colum has a nice version for children, I don't know many other public domain versions as we read the Rosemary Sutcliffe adaptations at home

 

Norse Mythology, we enjoyed Viking Tales by Jenny Hall and Children of Odin by Padriac Colum.

 

Fifty Famous Stories Retold

 

Plenty of novels including the ones already listed. I suppose that would be another list in and of itself.

 

 

Some other books that came to mind that I'm not sure would be completely necessary include a children's adaptation of Plutarch, an adaptation of Shakespeare such Tales From Shakespeare by Lamb.

 

That list is longer than I thought it would be, and I'm not sure if those titles or topics would even work for the students you have in mind. I'd love to see some suggestions from those who are better read than me :).

 

ETA: it dawned on me that American tall tales should be added to the list, I don't know of any PD collections, off to look for one. I realize that this is a very "western list," I would probably add more fairy tales and fables from around the world. The Little Cousins came to mind as a PD option, but I haven't read them.

 

I find it enormously helpful to hear your opinions on this. Thank you!

 

Have you seen the Dirda list of Patterning Works?

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/507794-the-knowledge-most-worth-having-by-michael-dirda/?hl=%2Bdirda&do=findComment&comment=5752526

 

I found an old thread where I was trying to break it up into a 4 year cycle, along with the list of books from a children's anthology.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/519318-dirda-literature-list-according-to-sotw/?p=5744230

[Hunter]

Clear as a bell on on a Thinkpad T61 running Trisquel-mini 6.0.1.

 

 

Small and grainy on an iPad Mini. Possible options...

"Encyclopedia Gutenberg" the intro is sort of humorous http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/200/pg200.html

It's obviously the classic Britannica.

 

Britannica Online http://www.britannica.com

 

I had the feeling this was an Apple problem. Some pdfs are grainy on Apple products, especially big files, and I don't know what that is about.

 

Thank you both!