Should we stop Kumon?

[mollydog]

Hi, I lurk here every once in a while. Based on advice from various sources, I enrolled my two boys (both currently 4th graders) into Kumon Math, and they've been in it since May. I wanted to try it because they are behind the 8-ball and because trolling the internet for worksheets became such a time-consuming event I couldn't sustain. I pay $220 for both just to do math, and they're not getting anywhere. They're still on double digit addition. Should I pull them out? or is it still too early to judge? 

 

I came across a similar online program called mindsprinting.com. Any thoughts on that as a replacement? At $100 per year for both boys to do math is a significant savings. Anything thoughts would be really helpful.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[jenbrdsly]

Have you tried Dreambox learning?  It would be a heck of a lot cheaper, and hopefully more fun.

[melmichigan]

Have you tried Dreambox learning? It would be a heck of a lot cheaper, and hopefully more fun.

Dreambox and Mathletics are two good choices.

[mollydog]

Thanks for the suggestions. They strike me as programs that allow the child to select what they want to do rather than what they need to work on and improve. Am I correct in this observation? If so, is there something that allows the parent to decide what the child's drills are focused on?

 

Thanks

[Mandy in TN]

Kumon is a Japanese math drill program that starts a child where they last experienced mastery. So, the child starts Kumon where he feels successful and moves forward by demonstrating both speed and accuracy. Through level G, it is primarily computation drill and it follows a scope and sequence very similar to the lower levels of MUS.

 

Kumon does not work on a specific problem area. You cannot bring a child into Kumon, tell them that your child is having trouble understanding fractions, and expect the center to start with fractions. The child will be given a placement test and if single digit horizontal addition was the last place your child experienced mastery, then that is where they will start him. Then, he will move forward as he masters each level.

 

Kumon is not a quick fix. Think of working through an entire level of MUS. That is basically what you are doing with each level of Kumon math. It takes time, but what a child masters at Kumon he doesn't forget. I have seen several kids return to Kumon years alters and test back into Kumon right where they left off. It is sad. In the time they were away from Kumon just doing math at the ps, they mastered no new material.

 

I see Kumon building strong, independent learners. OTOH- it isn't a good fit for every child. Nothing can work for everyone. If you have a child who freezes/ doesn't perform well in timed situations or if for some reason your family can't or won't commit to working and correcting daily, and/ or if for any reason it isn't working, move on to something else. If you like the S&S of Kumon, you could order MUS and go through the level like they are Kumon. Start them where they are currently in Kumon. Then, work daily and run though a whole level in a few months. It would definitely be cheaper the Kumon and it has video instruction. OTOH- it doesn't have an outside authority for them to report to.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Uff Da!]

"Thanks for the suggestions. They strike me as programs that allow the child to select what they want to do rather than what they need to work on and improve. Am I correct in this observation? If so, is there something that allows the parent to decide what the child's drills are focused on?"

 

I let Dd immerse herself in Dreambox during a heat wave and one of the games she did not like and avoided. At some point, Dreambox either only offered her that option to proceed or an alternative game accomplished the same thing. She moved up grade levels despite her avoidance.

[jenbrdsly]

"Thanks for the suggestions. They strike me as programs that allow the child to select what they want to do rather than what they need to work on and improve. Am I correct in this observation? If so, is there something that allows the parent to decide what the child's drills are focused on?"

 

I let Dd immerse herself in Dreambox during a heat wave and one of the games she did not like and avoided. At some point, Dreambox either only offered her that option to proceed or an alternative game accomplished the same thing. She moved up grade levels despite her avoidance.

 

 

Yes.  Dreambox won't let you pick what your child does, but it does make sure that your child hits those areas eventually.  Choice makes a big difference.  When kids choose what they are doing, they can be more motivated to learn, perform and master.

[mollydog]

Yes.  Dreambox won't let you pick what your child does, but it does make sure that your child hits those areas eventually.  Choice makes a big difference.  When kids choose what they are doing, they can be more motivated to learn, perform and master.

 

I'll keep at it, then. I was really concerned that my boys would figure out a way to circumvent practicing the material they didn't want to do. We'll keep going and hope it sticks.

 

Thanks again!

[Nart]

What level were they placed into when they started at Kumon?  From your description it sounds like they are in Level B. Did they not have their addition and subtraction facts down cold  and took a while to complete level 2A and A? How many pages where they doing a night - 3 pages, 5 pages, 10 pages? Do they know their multiplication facts?

 

So if they were there since May they have been enrolled four months, so 120 days, and each level is 200 pages. If they were doing 5 pages it takes 40 days to review a level, and if they were doing 10 pages a night it would take 20 days to review a level.  If they were only doing 5 pages a night and started in 2A it might makes sense they are only in level B. 

 

I just went through this dilemma with my son. He was having trouble memorizing his math facts after finishing Singapore Math 1B. I didn't want him to move into SM2 without having his addition and subtraction facts memorized. I enrolled him in April in Kumon and just pulled him out halfway through August. I don't think it was worth it in his case to continue. He went for a few months before he entered kindergarten, and he really liked going. The owner spoke to me a lot about how he was progressing, if he needed to repeat packets, and how much work he should have. This time I took him to a new center and I ended up not liking the center because I felt the owner was distant and it was too crowded at the center. My son was getting frustrated and it ended up not worth continuing. He did end up memorizing his addition facts to 20 and was almost done with subtraction, but while doing subtraction I felt like he was forgetting the addition facts. I bought the book "2 plus 2 is not 5" (from Amazon for $21) and it is working out well. There is another book "5 times 5 is not 10" that works on multiplication.  

[eleileen]

hv you tried talking to the owner?

[Guest LALUNA]

The response to your question ("Should we stop Kumon") would be: It depends!

 

Before getting into a car for a long drive, the traveler sets out a destination - a goal - and then takes out a map to establish the best route to arrive at the destination. (I guess today, Google map is allowed to quickly plan a route.) However, if the intended destination is several thousand miles, it is not enough to rely on the "route guidance" or the GPS; it is necessary to pay attention to road signs, and detours. It is important to constantly monitor location against the map (progress made).

 

The same is true when planning for a child's future. It is a relatively "long road" ahead. Educating a child is not simply about having him/her "master math" or "get better grades" or "catch up with, or exceed, expected outcome". It involves "shaping the whole child".

 

Thus, while learning math, language, and science, may arm a child with what he would need to excel academically, it is not the "final destination". The child has a gift of intellect (his/her brain is pre-wired to learn "everything" he/she is exposed to 24-hours a day, from birth (according to nuero-scientists authors of The Scientist in the Crib). What he does daily with his assignments, his books, his activities, would shape his attitude. 

 

To focus on "contents" of a learning program (like Kumon or others) and what a child "likes or hates to do" is to miss out on what is happening to the "whole child".

 

Kumon has excellent class-homework-materials BUT they are not what makes Kumon effective. Kumon is not about doing math or reading at the centre or bringing homework to do daily, or progressing rapidly through levels of study. Kumon is about shaping a child's behavior and expectation. Interaction with the child's Kumon instructor, as well as other children at the centre, from the moment he/she arrives and leaves form a significant aspect in moulding the "whole child".

 

Unfortunately, Kumon fails to communicate this well to prospective parents. Instead it focuses on "math or reading excellence" - by "doing assignments daily".

 

Exceptional Kumon centres are able to "plan the whole child's future" through a centre regimen that:

1) Inspires a child to enjoy success

2) Develops a wholesome attitude toward learning

3) Rewards not only results but how the results were achieved (demeanor and comportment)

4) Challenges the child to overcome problem on his/her own

5) Build's a child's confidence and expectation

 

Excellence in math and reading is only the "icing on the cake" in the Kumon program.

 

They also successfully communicate to parents the "entire map to reach the destination" - and not just small segments of the trip. This includes the parent's clear understanding of what it takes (responsibilities) to reach the goal as well as the appropriate (positive) responses to challenges like, "I hate this." "This is boring." "Why do I have to do this (repeatedly)." "Can't I do something more challenging?"

 

Thus, re-evaluate your goal. Is it a "temporary fix" you want, or were you simply focused on "a small segment of the entire (education goal) trip? As for "cost", your investment in a learning program is "priceless" when the outcome promises the greatest possibility of reaching your goal. You either spend it now (at an early age) with the greatest chance of a reward or spend a lot more later with a higher risk of having "no return for your investment". (See The Productivity Argument for Investing in Young Children - By Dr. James Heckman.)

 

Hope this helps shape your purpose.

[lisayvonne]

I sent DD to kumon for help when she's struggling in elementary school.It helped tremendously. However, I think it helped because it forced kids to actually do their homework. It's a pity that DD can't bear the heavy work. Then we switch to this site beestar. It's teacher recommended, full of all real life word problems, challenging stuff to help her thinking. Plus, math is free, saving lot's of $$...

Lisa

[kubiac]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure this Beestar poster finds every mention of Kumon on the Interweb and uses those threads to shill for his/her site (Beestar).

[mo9487]

I suggest you try Khan Academy(you can learn even if you dont have an account)the dont just teach you math but also other skills.they do videos quizzes and just documents.I personally hated learning but Khan Academy made me go from C- to B+ and made learning fun. :thumbup:

[SKL]

Sounds like what they are doing is just review / practice, so I wonder why not just buy the Kumon workbooks and have them practice at home?

 

I have no direct experience with Kumon, but if my kids were just doing the same basic elementary math concept for 6 months, I could do that at home for a lot less money.  (Assuming they would comply with a home program.)

[Mabelen]

Zombie thread from 2013! I don't think the OP is around any more.