All about series with dyslexic children?

[mom2agang]

Has anyone used All About Reading and All About Spelling and had success with a dyslexic child? I have 3 kids that are. One has Mild dyslexia and 2 have severe and they process some things backwards. I tried Barton with 2 kids. My mild child is reading at about a 3rd grade level and my severest is reading at a K level. My other child can't put to letters together. I'm looking for something else. we just aren't happy with Barton. My kids cry at it. Can someone compare AAS with Sequential spelling?

[Lecka]

My son cried at AAS after Level 1 Step 5.

 

I think it is still a good program.

 

I think at this point, maybe you could go back to Barton in the future, maybe it is not the problem, but if there is crying, and it is associated with Barton, then just changing to something else might really help.

 

I think if you can try for really low stress, try for rewards, try to make it painless...... but still do the work.... shorten the time periods for work but do more sessions.... anything....

 

My son had avoidant behavior I think partly b/c of me being too stressful and hugely b/c he was comparing himself to others and also I think his K teacher was not awesome and he spent a lot of time feeling incapable.

 

Anyway for him I think it was really hard and also avoidant behavior.

 

I think early AAS Level 1 was extremely helpful for my son, though. The letter tiles were great for him. I own Barton Level 1 and watched the DVDs and found them extremely helpful, but I didn't actually do Level 1. I used stuff from the DVDs with other programs. I just thought nonsense words would be too confusing for him at the level he was at (he did not have any simple words memorized). I also liked using letter tiles with him instead of trying to do sounds only with colored markers.

 

But now I think I might go back to Barton with him at a higher level, it is possible.

 

Anyway though, I think avoidant behavior and reading program could be two separate issues. Avoidant behavior is real, there are real brain changes that occur when children see something they have developed an aversion to.

 

So maybe if the new thing is done in some different ways, it would help.

 

For my son Abecedarian was "the answer" but honestly he had already done the hardest work with phonemic awareness (and he just turned 8 so we have not gone to multi-syllable words a huge amount -- just some prefixes and suffixes, some 2-syllable words).

 

It looked different. We did it in a different part of the house. We used some different manipulatives. I went to frequent, short sessions. I did no more flashcards (he had developed a serious dislike of them). I did a lot more positivity, I did a lot of little earned rewards. Previously I had been like -- withholding something until I got some cooperation. I went to a point where he got praise for just attempting to copy me, where he got praise for the slightest effort, and where I tried to stop before he was too frustrated, or I would prompt him nicely without any "don't know you know that" attitude or leaving it too long so he became frustrated.

 

Anyway -- I found the error correction videos and guide from Abecedarian really helpful for me, and just reading some things about having a better attitude and trying to be a really good tutor instead of just being a good teacher in delivering the program.

 

But I think he could have done well with several of the dyslexia/remedial programs, especially once he got past phonemic awareness.

 

Something about Sequential Spelling -- when I have looked at it I have an impression they want kids to be at a solid 2nd grade level or a beginning 3rd grade level. So I don't think that is comparable to AAS. AAS starts with learning letter sounds for the alphabet. It might be a good choice for your mild child at 3rd grade level, but maybe not for the ones at a lower level. I am not positive about that. I like the look of it, but my son is not quite solidly at that level I think -- still focusing on fluency here for a while longer.

 

Also yesterday someone said something to me that was a revelation.... I am always looking for "the" manipulative or method. I want to know the best thing and do it. But the person said --- expose your child to all the best manipulatives, and let him see what he is drawn to. So then -- it is good to be flexible, maybe do one thing sometimes and another sometimes. I had never thought of it that way before.

 

I mean like -- what kind of letter tiles to use, what kind of dry erase markers, using letter cards from index cards, putting syllable parts on index cards vs. on a dry erase board vs. having them be on magnets. I have always wanted to do one or another, but she has me thinking -- just be flexible with it!

 

(Also for a while he did great with the high-frequency word lists with Abecedarian, after having hated flash cards with more words at a time.... but then -- eventually he got tired of the word lists.... so back to making it look different, finding another way to have him work on the high-frequency words.... I think now -- maybe that is just how it is, instead of looking for the one true way to get him to learn high-frequency words.)

 

edit: I was going to say, I still worked with my son myself, but I do think that a different person for a while might help, too, if they are thinking something *you* do might be too hard. If there was someone they could do some review with, or who might play some easier games with them, that might help them get a better feeling.

 

I try really hard for "appropriate challenge" -- a little hard but the child is able to feel success, but I had to go back to "I will reward you if you just copy me" b/c there had been too much failure for him. But eventually he did get to a point where he was feeling success.

[LizzyBee]

Has anyone used All About Reading and All About Spelling and had success with a dyslexic child? I have 3 kids that are. One has Mild dyslexia and 2 have severe and they process some things backwards. I tried Barton with 2 kids. My mild child is reading at about a 3rd grade level and my severest is reading at a K level. My other child can't put to letters together. I'm looking for something else. we just aren't happy with Barton. My kids cry at it. Can someone compare AAS with Sequential spelling?

 

How far did you get in Barton? How long do you work at a time? Did you do the screening on the Barton website to make sure your kids have the prerequisite skills they need before starting Barton?

 

I tried AAS and it just was not enough for my dyslexic dd. It was too much info way too fast.

 

Barton was hard, hard, hard at first, and sometimes we could only do 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes in the afternoon. But we stuck with it and I kept telling her even though it's hard now, she will thank me someday. We are finishing up level 5 now, and she is already a better reader and speller than I thought she might ever be. The thing is, learning to read literally hurts the brains of dyslexic kids, esp if the dyslexia is severe. Nothing that works will be easy. My advice is to stick with Barton (assuming your kids have passed the student screening), offer tons of sympathy but don't give in, and keep the lessons short but do them daily. It will get better in time.

[prairiewindmomma]

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[prairiewindmomma]

Forgot to add....sequential spelling does require you to have basic phenomes in place....not necessarily 3rd grade (an average student could do it in 2nd at a slow place), but you need blends, double consonants, digraphs, etc.

[Lecka]

I totally agree about nonsense words, I think my son is an exception -- he stayed at sounding out cvc words for months.

 

AAS is not designed for dyslexia or remedial, it is a solid program and good I think, but I would expect it to go too fast for a lot of kids with dyslexia, it is not what it was primarily designed to do.

 

Actually I agree -- maybe if you can adjust to barton that would be better. Maybe the level of crying is the same as it would be with any program.

 

I think my adjustments helped a lot.

 

But if it is at a point where they are trying to run away or pick a fight or won't look etc then maybe a re-set is good.

 

But at the same time, maybe it is not going to be very different with another program and it is what it is.

 

My son did a lot better with shorter, more informal sessions. Less threatening I think. Also just easier bc he really did get tired very quickly.

 

I think I got a little stricter too when I started Abecedarian, but in a nice way. The crying can be bc it is too hard but that can become to get out of it, too. But at heart it is too hard and they need a lot of encouragement and a chance to succeed. But if it works to get out of it, then that feeds on it. I think I am in favor of making it as easy on kids as possible but still having clear (if small and manageable and maybe to just copy) goals that are going to be enforced.

 

I had a period when my son could not do the thing where you drag down tiles to segment (whether with colored tiles or letter tiles or anything) and for a few weeks (about 2 months I think) I just required him to copy me bc he could not do it on his own, but I also was confident it was helping him. He could have a little reward activity just for copying me. We were at that point and at that time he scribbled on papers, crumpled a little book, tried to kick me, tried to run away, tried to be mouthy to distract me, etc. I do think a lot from feeling like a failure in K but I didn't help.

 

Anyway I bet you are doing a lot better than I was at that point, but I think some of the stuff might not be from just the reading program. But if they really hate the reading program it might be worth switching for a new start, not necessarily bc that approach is not the right one. But I hope people can learn from my mistakes, I got some good advice here when I was starting out.

[MerryAtHope]

AAS worked great here for kids with dyslexic tendencies (fit all the profiles, but haven't done the testing--my one son spelled ask "aic" in 4th grade because he was so confused, always left letters out or added extra letters in, read things backwards or with the ends of words in the middle of words, both kids have directionality issues, dd couldn't rhyme for years etc...), vision processing issues and ADHD. The author was told her son would never read or write and to prepare him for a life without reading--here's a link to their story.

 

It's based on Orton Gillingham so there are similarities with Barton and other OG based programs. I like that it separates reading and spelling, rather than tying those two skills together. This way you can focus on each skill and let kids progress at their own pace. It's also easy to customize the review, so we could do lots of extra review when we needed it, or if something was mastered we could move on. AAS 1 does start with a lot of phonograms to learn, so if a child isn't ready for that, do AAR 1 first. That introduces them much more gradually and is designed to work on reading. When we've hit a wall with spelling a couple of times, we just take a break from new lessons and focus on review, make sure there's a really solid base there, and then continue on in a week or two. I really like the flexibility, the incremental nature of the lessons, and the tools it's given my kids for how to analyze a new word. I wish AAR had been out when they were learning to read because they really needed it and we struggled for a long time. Anyway, check the online samples for AAS and AAR to see if it might be a fit for you. HTH some!

 

Merry :-)

[Plink]

AAS/AAR are not designed for dyslexic kids. They start in the middle (dyslexics need what is obvious to most spelled out in detail) and move far too fast.

 

Honestly, it sounds like your child who can't combine 2 letters may not even ready for Barton yet, let alone AAR. I'd look into LiPS to help develop phonemic awareness.

 

Barton is hard. Kids don't like to do hard things. It is going to be a struggle.

 

If you have come to an impasse, it may be time to look for an OG tutor.

[FairProspects]

AAS worked brilliantly for my logical, 2E stealth dyslexic who struggles with reading fluency but not really phonemic awareness or decoding.

 

It is too fast for my 2nd though who shows more phonemic dyslexic issues. I'm moving him to Barton.

[Ariston]

 

How far did you get in Barton? How long do you work at a time? Did you do the screening on the Barton website to make sure your kids have the prerequisite skills they need before starting Barton?

 

I tried AAS and it just was not enough for my dyslexic dd. It was too much info way too fast.

 

Barton was hard, hard, hard at first, and sometimes we could only do 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes in the afternoon. But we stuck with it and I kept telling her even though it's hard now, she will thank me someday. We are finishing up level 5 now, and she is already a better reader and speller than I thought she might ever be. The thing is, learning to read literally hurts the brains of dyslexic kids, esp if the dyslexia is severe. Nothing that works will be easy. My advice is to stick with Barton (assuming your kids have passed the student screening), offer tons of sympathy but don't give in, and keep the lessons short but do them daily. It will get better in time.

 

 

Totally agree with all of this. We did AAS before doing Barton, and it was just way too much too fast. I would say if Barton were painfully slow and easy for a student, then to try AAS/AAR. But if Barton is painful because its too hard, then AAS is not going to work. AAS presents things in a less organized manner and at a quicker pace. I can't see it working for a dyslexic student who is having a hard time with Barton.

 

I would also suggest you go to the Barton forums on her site and post your problems there...lots of experienced tutors--maybe someone has advice? She is also supposed to be very approachable if you are having problems or have questions.

 

It might be that your child is not ready for Barton, or that you need to work at a different pace.

[TheReader]

Interestingly, we are using AAS almost exclusively, though tweaking it a bit, and it is working with my very severely dyslexic son. We do also use Earobics software which helps, and I slow AAS way down, but the method is helpful and he's moved from an inability to segment or blend words to being able to do so, both directions, in a few months.

 

Now, we've not progressed very far and have spent a LOT Of time in the beginning parts of AAS --- he has roughly 15 or so letter sounds in his "mastered" pile, the other 10 or so in his "review/future lesson" pile, and we've JUST (working since January 1) made it to the point of even introducing the letter tiles.

 

Our lesson time goes like this:

-review the 4 or 5 letter sounds/phonograms in his "review" pile

 

-lay out the letter tiles; name them, I speak the sound of each, he repeats

 

-ABC/Phonogram bingo (from another program) -- I speak a sound, he finds the letter tile and places it on the correct space on the bingo board; depending on his attention span, we play for a straight line bingo or cover the board bingo, and I either call random sounds, sounds he needs the most review on, or sounds in a straight line to get done more quickly (depending on how he's doing that day)

 

-segmenting words -- we're past this now so I don't do a lot, but we did spend quite a while on this part; I speak a word (using the lists in the AAS book), he taps the table with each sound as he repeats it, then moved to pulling tokens (sliding a token down towards himself as he spoke it); the Earobics helped with this/this helped with the Earobics; we might have spent longer here had he not had both of those working together.

 

-blending practice -- I lay out a CVC word and have him read it to me/put it together. Then I change just the first letter and have him read me the new word. This was/is a great way to introduce blending and get him practice yet with confidence. I also do nonsense words; I just switch the first consonant for every other consonant out there, LOL!

 

-continued blending practice -- once he had really mastered the concept of blending, I switched up the words all together, so I'd lay out a CVC word, he'd read it, then I remove all 3 tiles and put 3 more making a totally new word. We only do about 4 or 5 words a day, and in a very low key, no pressure kind of way. I discovered it's important to do this so that he also learns how different phonograms sound a bit different at the end of the word vs. the beginning of the word (given our natural tendency to speak a vowel sound when pronouncing the phonogram); I also mix in a few CVC words where I keep the beginning the same and change the ending consonant, for this reason.

 

-writing -- I then call a few letter sounds, he pulls the tile, I write the letter and he copies it. Just to further cement the sound/shape using all the learning channels (he says the sound as he writes the shape); we also use HWT for handwriting and he speaks the sounds then, too, just for extra reinforcment.

 

We're not past this stage yet, so I can't comment on higher levels or anything, but so far, what we're doing is working. We just slow it way down, keep it low key, do small increments (we probably spend only 5 to 10 mins a day on this) (he's 8 yrs old) and keep it light. Just yesterday/day before I did pull an early reader we had from a different program and show him that the words he was reading could also be read in books, so he'd realize that sounding out the words made by the letter tiles was actual reading. He hadn't made that connection until then.

 

We do mix up location, etc. often. A change of scenery, literally, helps him to remain intrigued and willing to pay attention. And during the writing part, he sometimes writes on paper, sometimes the slate from HWT, sometimes a dry erase board, etc.

 

Best of luck to you!

[karenclarkms]

We've had great success with Apples and Pears for spelling and Dancing Bears for reading, both by SoundFoundations. There were too many rules, with AAS for my ds and dd, both with memory issues, to remember.

[Mom-ninja.]

We've had great success with Apples and Pears for spelling and Dancing Bears for reading, both by SoundFoundations. There were too many rules, with AAS for my ds and dd, both with memory issues, to remember.

 

So Apples and Pears has less rules? My ds has problems remembering all the rules.

[karenclarkms]

Yes, there are very few that are taught outright and memorized.

[Mom-ninja.]

That surprising me because when I look at the sample I see rules. I guess it's just not as many.

[Lecka]

(Response to The Reader)

 

My son was like that with AAS -- that is what really helped him learn to blend and segment. However I did not use it after Level 1 Step 5. I used it to teach "silent e" but when it went right into consonant blends/clusters ---- well those were extremely hard for my son. He could not make the leap there, and then I couldn't adjust it to not have consonant clusters.

 

I mean, a great resource for consonant clusters, but on one hand he could move on with other skills, and on the other, it was not enough on consonant clusters for him. I needed to move on with other things while spending a little time on them.

 

That was a really difficult time and I was sorry to stop using AAS then.... I do like it.