Math - shocked and in not a good way

[swimmermom3]

My dd (16 and ps) has struggled for a couple of years with math. We spent thousands of dollars on tutoring at Sylvan for 7th and 8th grade. She took Algebra her 9th grade year and achieved Bs and Cs. This year, we pulled her from Geometry at the semester (as well as Chemistry) due to severe depression and an inability to be at school for extended periods of time. Her Geometry teacher was frustrated with dd's decision because teacher felt she was really bright but lacked confidence. Ugh.

 

We enrolled her in Keystone National online for both classes. Chemistry has been fine but dd thought Keystone's Geometry was harder than ps. So I bought Jacob's Geometry and started working with her. Today, following a hunch, I had her take Saxon's placement test starting with 7/6. She missed 10 out of 20.:crying: I haven't even finished grading the rest of it.

I feel so discouraged and sad for my dd.

 

How can I continue with Geometry when she seems to be missing basic skills? From what I can tell so far on the placement test, fractions, decimals, and percentages are the problem. Life of Fred? Lial's?

Any other ideas? I can't really take her all the way back to Saxon 7/6 can I?

[Susan C.]

The Module A of Video Text Algebra is an excellent review of math concepts, I was good at math and even learned from it. It is $109 on their website.

[JennW in SoCal]

My poor oldest ds can never remember basic math like fractions, decimals and percents. He has to review every time he faces a standardized test. (He didn't do SATs as he is starting in community college where he will have to figure out how to meet his college math requirements....)

 

Algebra was an ordeal, but Jacobs geometry was a blast for him. I've heard many kids who don't do well with algebra do much better with geometry. We ended his high school math there, on a success, and abandoned any idea of Algebra II or higher.

 

So I'd suggest sticking with geometry, especially if she is enjoying it, and find some good program to review those basics. Jacobs geometry does include Algebra review at the end of each chapter but you might want something else such as the "Keys to" series of workbooks for those basics. I haven't seen the Life of Fred for anything before Algebra, but its style and format might make it fun for a review in addition to geometry.

[Stacy in NJ]

Cliffs Math Review for Standardized Tests. It completely reviews basic arithmatic, algebra and geometry for the ACT, SAT, and GMAT. You could use it over the course of a semester on it's own, or combine a typical geometry course with it as a supplement over the entire year.

 

I was a very weak high school and college math student. I've used this to relearn my own skills to keep up with my math strong ds.

 

HTH, Stacy

[Greensa]

I can recommend the "Key to" series of workbooks. My daughter really doesn't like math, and her scores were about as bad as you are reporting. I got the Key to Decimals and Key to Fractions series. She went through them quickly and easily. Now she's very comfortable with both Decimals and Fractions. Before, she understood the concepts but couldn't work the problems. Now she's good with both concepts and problems.

They're inexpensive, too.

Sara

[Starr]

You could use Lial's Basic College Math for review. Plenty to work with and clear explanation and the word college on the front. Or the Key to books as Sara says.

[kiana]

Is she doing badly in geometry? It may be sufficiently different that she's able to continue in geometry despite weak basics.

 

If so, rather than canning the geometry completely to work on remediation, you could treat them as two completely different subjects and work on both.

 

I really wouldn't go back to a year-by-year curriculum, but rather find something intended for remedial or skill-specific work. I like the looks of the Key series for that, but I haven't used them myself.

[Valinbc]

Fraction, decimals, and percentages are covered expertly in Professor B. Mathematics. My dd struggled with all other programs, even the KEY to series, but this fit the bill. Good luck.

[Kathy in MD]

Donn't ask me how, but my ds wet through several of the Key to ...... series and didn't pick up the concepts. Dh and I couldn't understand how, because we found them well laid out. We could understand that he didn't get enough practice from the books, because they are skimpy on that. And this was after ds had studied the topics from another source.

 

Ds finally mastered the topics by a combination of drill sheets, CD math and some of the Life of Fred, just to finish the school year.

[Deidre in GA]

i think the Key To series would be a targeted, low cost way to remediate basic skills while you continue with geometry.

[vmsurbat]

i think the Key To series would be a targeted, low cost way to remediate basic skills while you continue with geometry.

 

:iagree: Start with Key to Fractions, move on to Key to Decimals, follow up with Key to Percents. If you think she'll need an algebra refresher, move into the Key to Algebra series.

[Orthodox6]

Do you think you might be able to have your dd undergo educational testing? Even though she is well into high school, knowing what she may have been struggling against through the years could help you immensely to revise her school program, and to help her prepare for whatever future path she chooses -- college, technical school, or anything else.

 

I guess I thought that someone earlier in the thread would have suggested this.

 

This past spring, as my dd turned 10, we had her undergo thorough educational testing. I long had suspected math disabilities for her, and I did not want her to limp through her school years unaided. The expense was so well worth it, in our eyes. Now we have confirmation of things we suspected, knowledge of things we never thought of, and even have confirmation of several marked strengths that we did not know dd possessed. I feel so much better about her remaining school years now that there are no "mysteries".

[swimmermom3]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to make recommendations. I am not much of a crier but scoring those placement tests yesterday left me in tears. I knew she struggled, just not how much.

 

I will be working through everyone's suggestions over the next couple of days. I do want to keep working with the Jacob's Geometry if we can. At the same time, I think we will start reviewing fractions, decimals, and percentages, since those were the areas that she missed most frequently on the test.

 

Orthodox6-you've got me thinking hard-as you usually do.:D Dd was diagnosed with severe depression this last fall (we never saw it coming) and is currently undergoing treatment and counseling. This (possible learning problems) is something we can talk to her counselor about. Up until 6th grade, dd scored very well on the Stanford tests that her school used. From there is has been a slow downhill slide with math being her nightmare subject.

 

Someone had suggested to us that she and her younger brother are bright enough that they may have been sliding by; however, now that the work is more difficult they struggle because they are lacking some of the basic skills that they should have picked up earlier.

 

Sorry, today I just feel like going back to bed.

Edited June 30, 2009 by swimmermom3
clarification

[Orthodox6]

:grouphug: !

 

My dd was diagnosed last winter with major depression and ADHD-mixed. It's all a brim-full plate for our daughters, isn't it ?!

 

I'm going to chime in with your quoted paragraph. The psychiatrist with whom I used to work maintained to me that the reason I never knew that I had ADHD was that only when I arrived in college was schoolwork difficult for me for the very first time. All of the classic symptoms burst into flower during my freshman year -- and not until much later, when I was around 46 years old did I find out (via diagnosis) that I have ADHD, major depression, OCD, and probable Asperger's.

 

I agree, then, that your children may have not had trouble with school until they were older.

 

Hate to rely on a cliche, but really -- It's going to turn out just fine in the long run for your children !

 

 

Someone had suggested to us that she and her younger brother are bright enough that they may have been sliding by; however, now that the work is more difficult they struggle because they are lacking some of the basic skills that they should have picked up earlier.

 

.

[MyThreeSons]

for just $5.95, you can register your student for the online Key to Tracker program. It will give your student a placement test and then guide her thru each of the Key to Fractions, Decimals, Percents and Algebra programs.

 

http://www.keypress.com/x22311.xml

[PollyOR]

(((Lisa))) My dd is being treated for depression and she complains at times that she has a hard time concentrating. I'm not sure if it is the depression or the medications.

 

I will admit that I have needed to review fractions, decimals, percents, etc. my whole life. If I don't use it, I lose it.

 

We used the Key to Tracker online. It is a great way to get more practice. :thumbup1:

 

Good luck with finding what works best for your dd (depression and academic).

[creekland]

I think the problem was ps. I teach in ps - and my boys went there up to 8th, 6th, and 4th respectively. Those topics you say she is lacking in (fractions, decimals, etc) are ones that are barely taught in ps - then they immediately switch to the calculator to do them. Few kids I see at my high school level know how to do them - VERY few. Then these kids get a placement test - or other test - where they can't use the calculator and get really frustrated.

 

When I pulled my own kids out I was rather horrified when I found they didn't actually know the basics (even with A's in class) and started teaching them on the side while they continued their other work. Fortunately, mine are good at math, so it wasn't difficult for them to pick these up... but in general, I would expect what you say from ANY ps student in our district. I've had kids argue with me that (-2) squared is -4... They can't do the math and that's what their calculator tells them it is... until I remind them to use parentheses (as I wrote it). I've also had several that can't figure out 10% of a number without their calculator... it makes me wonder how they figure out tips in restaurants, etc. Many also can't multiply 6x7 or 7x8 or any of those other common higher single digits... It's really sad.

[swimmermom3]

:grouphug: !

 

My dd was diagnosed last winter with major depression and ADHD-mixed. It's all a brim-full plate for our daughters, isn't it ?!

 

Hate to rely on a cliche, but really -- It's going to turn out just fine in the long run for your children !

 

Orthodox6, I don't care if it is a cliche. :001_smile:Thank you for the sentiment and the input. You have given me a different angle to consider. I asked the counselor about it yesterday. She is going to do some research and get back to us.

 

for just $5.95, you can register your student for the online Key to Tracker program. It will give your student a placement test and then guide her thru each of the Key to Fractions, Decimals, Percents and Algebra programs.

 

http://www.keypress.com/x22311.xml

 

Thank you for this link. I actually used the Key series to reinforce those very same skills (except Algebra) when we pulled middle dc from ps, but didn't know this was available.

 

(((Lisa))) My dd is being treated for depression and she complains at times that she has a hard time concentrating. I'm not sure if it is the depression or the medications.

 

I will admit that I have needed to review fractions, decimals, percents, etc. my whole life. If I don't use it, I lose it.

 

We used the Key to Tracker online. It is a great way to get more practice. :thumbup1:

 

Good luck with finding what works best for your dd (depression and academic).

 

Polly, thank you. For my dd, the depression made it hard to concentrate. I don't really know if the medication makes that factor better, but then 8 mos. later and we're still tweaking the meds.:tongue_smilie:

 

I think the problem was ps. I teach in ps - and my boys went there up to 8th, 6th, and 4th respectively. Those topics you say she is lacking in (fractions, decimals, etc) are ones that are barely taught in ps - then they immediately switch to the calculator to do them. Few kids I see at my high school level know how to do them - VERY few. Then these kids get a placement test - or other test - where they can't use the calculator and get really frustrated.

 

When I pulled my own kids out I was rather horrified when I found they didn't actually know the basics (even with A's in class) and started teaching them on the side while they continued their other work. Fortunately, mine are good at math, so it wasn't difficult for them to pick these up... but in general, I would expect what you say from ANY ps student in our district. I've had kids argue with me that (-2) squared is -4... They can't do the math and that's what their calculator tells them it is... until I remind them to use parentheses (as I wrote it). I've also had several that can't figure out 10% of a number without their calculator... it makes me wonder how they figure out tips in restaurants, etc. Many also can't multiply 6x7 or 7x8 or any of those other common higher single digits... It's really sad.

 

Creekland, I read your post to my dd. She said, "Mom, that's so true." She does not know how to figure a tip or sales tax, (not as much need in OR). She almost passed up a shirt she really wanted on a shopping trip because she didn't know how to figure out the sales price. It was 70% off. When I corrected her first geometry assignment that she did for me, I couldn't figure out how she got the angle mesurements wrong. Then it dawned on me: she didn't know how to use a protractor.:001_huh: How could a person get a C in Geometry and not have this skill? It took about 5 minutes to rectify the situation and she hasn't had a problem since then.

 

I spent much of yesterday reviewing suggestions and have decided to continue with Geometry and work on fractions, decimals, and percentages on the side with the Keys to... series. Dh suggested that Lial's Basic College Math would be good to have on hand too for extra practice and because we can use it to supplement youngest ds (another thread). I had already ordered LoF Beginning Algebra for middle ds, so we can use that for review too.

 

Thanks again to everyone. This would be hard to work out on my own. To those of you with dc in a similar situation as my dd-my heart is with you. It's a scary road. Peace and joy to you all.

[Caryl]

My second oldest and math don't click well together. Last year, after finishing Saxon 8/7, I had her do the 3 Keys to books, and then she worked her way through Lial's BCM. The Keys to books are pretty quick, so that way she had to run through all the concepts twice, first with Keys and then with Lials. What I like very much about BCM was that the explanations are clear, the student works problems as they go through the lesson, and the problem sets include problems from earlier chapters. She gained immense confidence, and I am very glad I didn't put her right in Algebra I.

 

I was so impressed with the Lial book that I abandonned Teaching Textbook algebra for my older daughter and switched to Lials (and everyone breathed a sigh of relief).

[nlmullen]

I have a dd who will never do algebra or geometry. We will work on the basics throughout high school. Why try to force feed a child something they are not ready for? Don't be afraid to teach to your child's level. As homeschoolers, we don't have to adhere to arbitrary standards set for all children. We get to tailor our standards in each subject to each child. By the way, most people do not use geometry in their adult life, but they do use basic math. :001_smile:

[bclerkin]

I agree that 'Key to...' series would be excellent for review.

[PeterPan]

I have a dd who will never do algebra or geometry. We will work on the basics throughout high school. Why try to force feed a child something they are not ready for? Don't be afraid to teach to your child's level. As homeschoolers, we don't have to adhere to arbitrary standards set for all children. We get to tailor our standards in each subject to each child. By the way, most people do not use geometry in their adult life, but they do use basic math. :001_smile:

 

That's not true. I use geometry in quilting and sewing projects all the time. You use the logic skills of geometry every day. And I assume you forsee no college in the future for your dc? Without high school math, they certainly aren't going to have test scores or be able to pass a GED to get in. You definitely want to get them into as much math as they are able, even if they take longer than normal or get a low grade with it. Better to struggle and have that exposure than never to have tried at all. When I worked in admissions at a university, we had some students apply with extremely poor math scores like what would result from your plan. It was extremely sad. If college is in your dc's future at all, you definitely want to work on those plans and cover at least basic high school level math.