MFW users..ECC without interrupting 4 year cycle

[Emmy]

I'm looking to move into MFW next year and was thinking I'd do ECC but my dh is not thrilled with the idea. He's totally on board with MFW - but I guess I waxed poetic about the 4 year history cycle a few too many times because he does not want me to take a year out to do ECC. We did SOTW 1 last year and are finishing up SOTW 2 now so he wants me to move into American History.

 

So - has anyone "done" ECC in other ways? Like twice a week but over 2 years? Cutting it in half and doing it in summers? I'm not sure it's even possible, I'm just curious because it looks like a really neat program. His idea is that I can do both but he often has lofty goals for me. :D

[dhudson]

I don't think I would try to do both at the same time. Exp to 1850 is a hefty program and adding ECC would be daunting. However, if your dh really wants you to finish the cycle, finish the cycle and then do ECC. You could possibly do ECC during the summer and just do Bible and geography.

[Tabrett]

Have you done Adventures? It is American History. I also want to do the 4 year history cycle and MFW.

 

I have a crazy plan, but I thought I would try Adventures with SOTW 3. The add on books for younger students in Exploration to 1850 are the same as the regular book in Adventures. Adventures might be better considering you dc are on the younger side. I plan on doing Adventures when my dc are in 3rd and 1st. The next year,I will do SOTW 4 and my what ever else I piece together (I'm not very interested in ECC). Then I plan on doing CtG when my dc are in 5th and 3rd. That will let me start my second cycle with MFW.

[Emmy]

I know I can't do both...I think he has this idea that maybe I can cover it on Fridays or summers or something. another *sigh*. I'd love to do ECC next year and then go to Exploration to 1850 after that but the kids (and dh) really have been looking forward to getting back to American History for a while. I will either do Adventures (and beef it up considerably for my oldest) or I'll do Exporation to 1850 with the younger kid pack and lighten it up.

[Julie in MN]

ECC does spend a few weeks in the USA, so they'll have a little time there. You could also use the extra 2 weeks in ECC to continue that focus. I know it's hard to put off US history, but really you'll get a ton of it in years to come!

 

I also like the idea of Adventures. Will your oldest be in 3rd grade? If so, it should work perfectly as is. And it would make sense to just wait to do ECC the very next year. Would he be agreeable to that?

[sandra in va]

I have also thought about this - I was wondering if it is possible to do ECC in the summers over 2-3 years while we do the 4 year history programs during the regular school year. Like Dawn said, we would just do the Bible and geography (possibly some of the science?) and do 2 continents a summer.

 

What do you think of that idea? The positive side of this is that you would be reviewing geography more often than once every 5 years.

[Emmy]

I also like the idea of Adventures. Will your oldest be in 3rd grade? If so, it should work perfectly as is. And it would make sense to just wait to do ECC the very next year. Would he be agreeable to that?

 

By age and ability my son would be considered a 4th grader. We call him a 3rd grader though (summer bday kid and kind of immature) so there really is plenty of time. I'll have to look at adventures again - it looks too light for him (currently he is reading books primarily at the 5th to 6th grade level) so I was thinking we'd do Exploration to 1850 in a lighter way. The difference of course is doing american history over 2 years vs 1 year....

[Julie in MN]

Adventures lets you explore the 50 states. It introduces you to some key figures and events.

 

On the other hand, years 4 & 5 study the states as only part of your history for the day. You will learn the different backgrounds of the folks who settled the colonies. You will learn the different characters who contributed to the decision to conduct a Revolution and write a Constitution. By year 5, you will have touching read-alouds about folks who endured slavery and wars. You will see parallels and divergences in different countries around the world where revolutions were conducted.

 

When I look back at my boys, I think Adventures would have been good at age 8. For my oldest (typical oldest child), he used to ask his 3rd grade public school teacher if he could write extra reports. But he did them on types of dinosaurs & stuff, not on the Constitution. I would lean towards doing that with your 8yo. He could write a fuller notebook page about each state and some of the presidents & such, if he would like. There is lots of reading in book basket. And even my 12-13 yo ds enjoyed books this year like Squanto and Sarah Whitcher.

 

I'm sure others can speak for the move-em-ahead camp, and maybe you'll be more comfortable with that. But I come from the better-late-than-early side. My oldest started K at 6 and he is a 24-year-old engineer who's also in the Army Reserves and tons of other stuff. He's very well rounded, & waiting worked out fine :)

[Emmy]

Julie- I really appreciate your thoughts, I do. I think the fact that SOTW is used in years 4/5 makes me see them as potentially appropriate - because that's what I had planned on doing before I started looking at MFW. I always forget about the book basket too- that's a good point, I'm sure there would be good options for my oldest to read on his own there. I wish I could go to a convention and see all this stuff in person! :) My son will be 9 this fall btw - not that there is this great divide between 8 and 9, just fyi-ing. :)

 

My first choice would have been to do ECC this year and then pick up Exploration to 1850 after that (based on some wonderful advice I got from other MFW users a week or two ago). Since DH is really wanting me to continue history instead of taking the year out for ECC I guess I will need to choose between SOTW 3 alone (wait on MFW until next history cycle), Adventures, and Exploration to1850. I just really find it challenging to find the right fit.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Emmy

[sweetbaby]

We are using ECC but I agree with your dh. I think you should finish your history cycle then do ECC. I didn't get the levels of your other children and I'm not sure if they will tag along but MFW has books suggestions for several ages in the TM and supplements. I would also look at HOD which is similar to MFW although I'm not sure if HOD uses SOTW and if that matters to you.

Edited April 19, 2009 by sweetbaby

[Julie in MN]

Aw, Emmy, I've had years like that. Pray & go forward and it will all be fine in the end.

 

If you can add MFW to SOTW, I would. I really value having the balance of God's heart alongside the world's mistakes.

 

One thought I had was that your dh read thru SOTW-4. Let him see where you're quickly headed. It's quite a step up from SOTW-2. See if that affects his idea about pausing for a year in geography? Just a thought.

 

Julie

[Omma]

I am fitting in ECC as we do Y4 in TOG. When we've studied WWI, we have studied Russia and Great Britain. When we studied WWII, we studied Japan and Germany. Then we've done Korea with the Korean War, and China with Mao Tse Tung. We did Israel and India when we talked about them becoming independent nations (and Pakistan, too) We'll do Vietnam with the Vietnam War, and Afghanistan and Iraq as we get into those wars. It certainly loses the cohesiveness that the Hazells had intended, but it is working for us this way right now. We haven't done the Matthew study, for example. And we had already covered habitats with AW from WP, and Wild Places and Hero Tales with SL K, so this way is working out for us.

 

You'll find a way that works for your family, too! :grouphug:

 

Brenda

[Donna A.]

I'm looking to move into MFW next year and was thinking I'd do ECC but my dh is not thrilled with the idea. He's totally on board with MFW - but I guess I waxed poetic about the 4 year history cycle a few too many times because he does not want me to take a year out to do ECC. We did SOTW 1 last year and are finishing up SOTW 2 now so he wants me to move into American History.

 

So - has anyone "done" ECC in other ways? Like twice a week but over 2 years? Cutting it in half and doing it in summers? I'm not sure it's even possible, I'm just curious because it looks like a really neat program. His idea is that I can do both but he often has lofty goals for me. :D

 

I haven't read all the replies so maybe this has been mentioned, but what if you do Adventures next year and just have fun with it. There are many, many additional book and video titles in the back of the TM, several of which I used with a 10yo at the time we did ADV. I had a 10, 7 and 3yo's then, and EX1850 wasn't out yet.

 

Then, with your oldest as a 4th grader the following year, you could do ECC at that time and then it would work out perfectly to follow the 4-year history cycle through the rest of elementary. So it would look like this:

 

3rd -- Adventures

4th -- ECC

5th -- CTG

6th -- RTR

7th -- Expl-1850

8th -- 1850-Modern

 

That plan would also give you a nice break between when you did SOTW 2 the first time, and when you'll do it as part of MFW during the Rome to Reformation year.

[dhudson]

Now that I've read the ages of your kids ( I should really look at these things) adventures would work better for all your kids.

 

My kids all did K at 4 so unlike Julie ( hi Julie) I'm of the push 'em ahead camp but I still agree that if you do ADV with SOTW it should beef it up for him along with book basket. I've done both EXP to 1850 and ADV and I think ADV will fit the ages of your children better and it will only take you one year and then you can jump into the MFW history cycle and finish in 8th grade perfectly.

 

ADV also has really great hands-on activities and a great Bible which would fit the ages of yoru kids better. We memorized the entire book of James this year with EXP with our 6th grader and 3rd graders and it was a stretch with my twins. ADV does a wonderful study of the names of Jesus which really fit my kids at that younger age. It gave them a great foundation of who Jesus is.

 

My dh also likes to have a say in our schooling and I am grateful for that so I try :001_smile: to listen to him when he has a strong opinion on things. Often he can see the forest through the trees better than I can since I am daily in the midst of the forest so I am of the opinion that following your dh's advice is a good plan.

[Amy in KS]

You could do Adventures along with A Child's Story of America (a fourth grade book from Christian liberty). There's a schedule somewhere on the web for combining the two.

[Amy in KS]

Oh yeah, and you could add the Audio Memory States & Capitals songs for the oldest.

 

Another idea is to do adventures and the last two sets of Veritas Press cards along with it (primarily american history).

[Emmy]

If I did Adventures *with* SOTW -how would I go about that? Just follow the Adventures guide and throw in the corresponding SOTW chapters at the appropriate times? That sounds appealing.

 

I hadn't even thought of tying in my #3 son who will be Kinder this fall. I figured he would just be on his own....although he listens in on SOTW2 right now about 2/3 of the the time, so it's likely he would do so even more next year.

 

In the fall they would be 3rd grader (in name, by age and ability, he is a 4th grader), 2nd grader (avg student, not ahead but does well and loves history), and Kinder (advanced student, sits in on much of the older kid stuff now).

[dhudson]

I think you could add in SOTW fairly easily and I see that you like to do composer studies and ADV will do that for you as well as Art.

[mom2abcd]

Sure! ECC includes lots of subjects, but you wouldn't have to do them all. Do the geography portion with the Windows to the World resources. You can easily skip Hero Tales, Matthew, the science, math, etc. and continue your other plans for all that.

 

We got hung up on making the world map game and if I had to do it again, we'd totally skip that and require the kids to work on the Sheppard's software games for world geography.

 

There's lots of good geography stuff in ECC that you could squeeze in with another program and not sacrifice your four-year plan. Frankly, I wish I would have done it that way. I learned that I like to make my own plans and not follow someone else's grids.

 

I say Go For It!

[Emmy]

I think you could add in SOTW fairly easily and I see that you like to do composer studies and ADV will do that for you as well as Art.

 

I really like that about MFW, one less thing for me to plan or worry about. And it's similar to what I've been doing.

 

I think doing Adventures could be a really fun year for us - it doesn't give us the 20th century stuff in that 2nd year but putting that off might be a good idea. I'm going to pray on this and talk to DH again - he is definitely more of a push-ahead type so I'll have to see what he thinks. I'll have to really go into detail on the book basket and adds on I would do for my oldest.

 

If he isn't comfortable with it, I'll likely do exploration to 1850 with the 2nd/3rd grade supplements and we'll only make use of some of the program (and then fully utilize it the next time).

 

I appreciate all the thinking out loud and helpful posts. This board is so great for that!

[Emmy]

Sure! ECC includes lots of subjects, but you wouldn't have to do them all. Do the geography portion with the Windows to the World resources. You can easily skip Hero Tales, Matthew, the science, math, etc. and continue your other plans for all that......There's lots of good geography stuff in ECC that you could squeeze in with another program and not sacrifice your four-year plan. Frankly, I wish I would have done it that way. I learned that I like to make my own plans and not follow someone else's grids.

 

I say Go For It!

 

Thanks for your input on this. I'm not sure if my DH will ever be in favor of taking a year out for geography so I might end up on this path either way. :)

[Donna A.]

If I did Adventures *with* SOTW -how would I go about that? Just follow the Adventures guide and throw in the corresponding SOTW chapters at the appropriate times? That sounds appealing.

 

I hadn't even thought of tying in my #3 son who will be Kinder this fall. I figured he would just be on his own....although he listens in on SOTW2 right now about 2/3 of the the time, so it's likely he would do so even more next year.

 

In the fall they would be 3rd grader (in name, by age and ability, he is a 4th grader), 2nd grader (avg student, not ahead but does well and loves history), and Kinder (advanced student, sits in on much of the older kid stuff now).

 

Emmy, I really think that ADV is the most appropriate choice for the ages of your *group*. It's easier to add extra reading for an 8yo than it is to make EX1850 easier for the whole group. There's just a lot more in ADV that your littles can participate in than there is in EX1850.... which is exactly why they recommend ADV for families whose *oldest* child is 2nd or 3rd grade (which would apply to most 8yo's). Even if you do ADV, you'll still have done history chronologically at an age-appropriate level. Then you'd have one year of geography/cultures/missions, and then another full history cycle before the oldest starts high school.

 

I don't see a problem with adding the *reading* of SOTW 3 to ADV if you want to, but I wouldn't try to add the AG as well. There's plenty of activities and mapwork already included in ADV. Oh, and since SOTW covers both U.S. and world history, and it's not particularly chronological (but MFW is), I might just read it aloud with the 8yo separately from our lessons in ADV. I don't think I'd bother trying to line it up at this point. It'll get lined up when you do Expl-1850 at a deeper level in the future.

 

Your Kinder kid will need his own phonics and math no matter what year of MFW you go with, so he would just listen/participate in those read-alouds and activities from ADV for as long as his attention span holds out. I'd have a 1" 3-ring binder for him to make his own notebooking pages, too (using coloring sheets, stickers, or whatever he's able and willing to do -- my then-3yo LOVED having her "own" notebook ;) ), and not worry about any of the activities that he isn't interested in. You might be surprised how much he ends up doing with the rest of the family, though. :001_smile:

[Donna A.]

I'll have to really go into detail on the book basket and adds on I would do for my oldest.

 

Have you seen the TM for Adventures? There are TONS of titles in the back of the TM (around 400 titles).... for a wide variety of ages and reading genres. They're listed by week # and topic, so it really won't be as hard as you might think. :)

[Donna A.]

We got hung up on making the world map game and if I had to do it again, we'd totally skip that and require the kids to work on the Sheppard's software games for world geography.

 

Just FYI for anyone reading.... the 2nd edition of ECC includes the games already made for you. :)

[AudreyTN]

We used Adventures this year (3rd, 2nd, Ker) and added in readings from A Child's Story of America by CLP.

 

Have you looked at Galloping the Globe to "add in" instead of ECC??

[Emmy]

Have you seen the TM for Adventures? There are TONS of titles in the back of the TM (around 400 titles).... for a wide variety of ages and reading genres. They're listed by week # and topic, so it really won't be as hard as you might think. :)

 

Donna- thanks for your posts. I actually haven't seen the Adventures TM - and I don't really have a way to see it before buying. I did just send a note to someone on the FSOT board and am hoping she still has one I can buy used.

[amtmcm]

I wish my DD had been home for 3rd grade to do Adventures... She'll be in 4th grade next year and her big sister will be doing American History with a co-op. I've seriously considering MFW Adventures to coincide but decided on Homeschool in the Woods Time Travelers instead. But reading these posts is making me reconsider doing ADV and trying to beef it up for her. I must stop changing my mind....

 

Adventures looks like a lot of fun, and perfect for your children's ages!

[dhudson]

My twins will be 8 yr (doing 4th gr work next year) this coming year going into the 20th century with EXP to MOD and I worry about it a little just because it is so intense of a topic. I will be using all the 2nd/3rd grade supplement with them to soften it. If my oldest was not going 7th I would NOT be bringing up the 20th century wars and such at their age.

 

The book basket is great and allows us to go as deep as we want while not having to. My kids read the book basket all the time and enjoy surprising me on facts and things they have learned in the book basket.

[cbollin]

Thanks for your input on this. I'm not sure if my DH will ever be in favor of taking a year out for geography so I might end up on this path either way. :)

 

One suggestion for you and dh is to listen to some of MFW's convention workshops on their take on classical education and the need for geography/cultures. Maybe if your dh heard the big picture of what they are hoping to accomplish, he might think differently.

 

Here's a link to help you find some of those workshops

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3234

 

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

One suggestion for you and dh is to listen to some of MFW's convention workshops on their take on classical education and the need for geography/cultures. Maybe if your dh heard the big picture of what they are hoping to accomplish, he might think differently.

 

Here's a link to help you find some of those workshops

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3234

 

 

-crystal

 

:iagree: Ah yes, thanks for bringing that up, Crystal. Listening to those workshop discussions is what brought my dh on board. He totally "got it" and saw the Big Picture with me, particularly from the "Classical Education in the 21st Century" title. (Which I think is the same as "What 21st Century Christians Should Be Teaching Their Children", just with a different title... Right, Crystal?)

[vlshort]

Greetings,

 

I struggled with the same question, and did take a year off to do ECC at 4th/5th grade. Having done the course, I think you could extract the cultural and geographical activities, and combine them with your other studies over the course of a couple of years or so, and not interrupt your cycle. I found the ECC workload to be very light, with the exception of the worksheets that are recommended for the older kids. The science work was very light, and we actually chose something a little meatier since my son was already familiar with their science. The Christian biographies are great, but you could add them into your studies elsewhere.

 

I guess it depends on how much you want to get out of ECC, and how important the 4 year rotation is. With my next ds (who is 1st grade right now), I will probably add ECC into our regular studies.

 

Good luck!

-vanessa

[cbollin]

He totally "got it" and saw the Big Picture with me, particularly from the "Classical Education in the 21st Century" title. (Which I think is the same as "What 21st Century Christians Should Be Teaching Their Children", just with a different title... Right, Crystal?)

 

as far as I know, yes.

 

-crystal

[motherdear]

nm

[AudreyTN]

Exploring Countries and Cultures.

 

It's published by My Father's World. http://www.mfwbooks.com/ecc_2nd.htm

[ClassicMom]

I'll preface this with saying that this is just my opinion.

 

I have a child graduating, and one that will be starting MFW 1st grade this year. So, we've pretty much seen it all. We skipped Adventures and I wish that we hadn't, but we came into the cycle late.

 

I also believe that the geograpy program in MFW was very important. My kids got more from that than they got from their high-school geography programs. It was fun, memorable and hands-on. I think it helps to give a broader view of the world before moving on to the various cycles.

 

Your children are still very young. I would hesitate to give them the work in 1850's at this time. If you want to do American History, then I would do Adventures since it is more age appropriate for your gang. If your oldest needs it beefed-up, you can do that with the book-basket. If you must do SOTW, then I would do it as a read-aloud during book-basket time, but you'd be duplicating the book in the cycle. I think someone mentioned a CLP history reader. Those are all good books for history in the primary grades and would be a good addition as long as you just used it for the reading and not the tests, etc.

 

As suggested by another poster, I would also have your husband either listen to the tape or class regarding the teaching of geography. Then, perphaps, your husband would be on board for you to teach it next year,after Adventures.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[noah&emmasmommy]

Well, I used MFW RtR this year, and we loved it. We used MOH1 last year, and it was okay, but not as exciting as this year. ECC didn't really interest me as much, and I have to say, that with our wall map hanging up, we have really learned quite a bit about world geography and cultures. I think MFW does a great job with this, and I wouldn't consider trying to do ECC at all. I will probably do it with my daughter when she gets to that year, but not for my son. Just because the books were below his reading level. Anyway, if your husband is thinking ECC is necessary because of the world geography, I really think that we've gotten quite a bit of that in the RtR year. We are constantly looking at the map, and reading library books about the cultures and countries we are studying that week. We are moving into Exp-1850 for the next school year and I just spent quite a bit of time sifting through this year at the Midwest Homeschool Convention. It is more American History, but there are quite a few world history topics mixed in. And I know we'll be doing map work and consulting the giant wall map to see where we are for that week. If you want to cover world geography, I would consider adding something more simple and straight to the point like Trail Guide to World Geography. You could just add that in 1-2 days a week, and it should give your kids a great overview of countries. And to add in the culture, just make sure you're using MFW's book basket. The books really do add in a great amount of culture, and provide a lot of interesting info on the subject for that week.

Hope this helps.